Harbinger's Shroud - Support Scourge Buff — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Harbinger's Shroud - Support Scourge Buff

The moment I read in the balance notes that HS will give barrier to allies I knew it was a possible winner over Desert Empowerment for support scourge. I tested that it affected allies through shades, and it does, which means it also affects up to 10 allies. Did T4 fracs and wing 2 on my support scourge with this trait and it was great! Granted the timing requires some getting used to and if you're used to spamming shades for condi clear and the small barrier from Desert Empowerment, you will need to adjust your timing. BUT, I found this to be ultimately superior.
I did notice some bugs in certain situations where only 1 ally is given barrier regardless if there are more allies and they're standing next to you and in your shade. However, this was not an issue in raids, more in open world.

Comments

  • Ojimaru.8970Ojimaru.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's definitely a nice addition for support scourges. Based on my numbers, the Barrier on detonation has a 2x coefficient, and can easily reach Barrier cap on most allies. However do note at the moment the detonation does not proc Abrasive Grit, and therefore will not cleanse conditions nor give Might.

    "Thief? How rude! I'm a Procurement Specialist." -Glenn Gynnafante

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Another bug/feature is, if you cast or reposition your shade after casting HS, you will only have the shroud effect around yourself and not on the shade.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Another bug/feature is, if you cast or reposition your shade after casting HS, you will only have the shroud effect around yourself and not on the shade.

    Is it really a big or is it wanted? Just compare it to desert shroud, is it possible to cast desert shroud then replace your shade, while it's pulsing, and the pulsing effect stays?

    Also I don't think that harbingers shroud is better than desert empowerment.
    Sure you will reach higher barrier uptime on 10 targets, but your subgroup has less barrier uptime than with desert empowerment. But since scourge is never used as solo support in 10man content, you might want your subgroup to get more barrier, as the other group will have another healer.

    Also keep in mind, that harbingers shroud will give you less Condi cleanses on your subgroup and less might uptime

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't get trait rework, Desert manifest is still better for support, Sadistic Searing for dps. In which particular role/build it could be used I can't figure.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Lahmia.2193 said:
    Another bug/feature is, if you cast or reposition your shade after casting HS, you will only have the shroud effect around yourself and not on the shade.

    Is it really a big or is it wanted? Just compare it to desert shroud, is it possible to cast desert shroud then replace your shade, while it's pulsing, and the pulsing effect stays?

    Also I don't think that harbingers shroud is better than desert empowerment.
    Sure you will reach higher barrier uptime on 10 targets, but your subgroup has less barrier uptime than with desert empowerment. But since scourge is never used as solo support in 10man content, you might want your subgroup to get more barrier, as the other group will have another healer.

    Also keep in mind, that harbingers shroud will give you less Condi cleanses on your subgroup and less might uptime

    Yes, if you cast desert shroud before f1 or reposition f1 after casting, then the desert shroud will pulse on that one instead.
    Which is a pain for Harbinger's Shroud because I was hitting some real high numbers on it. Unfortunately it was just too unreliable, as most foes had moved out of it by the time it went off.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The skill is funny, it trade sustained damage for "burst" (damage/support) but it does have a 3 second delay... The skill is interesting to counter high damage boss skills with long wind up... But, seriously, this is just doing a bad design variation instead of fixing the bad design. If they wanna create a PvE trait with boon corruption in mind, first there is a need to make boon corruption valuable and piling up worthless boons on boss isn't the intelligent way to do so.

    It's kinda tiring to see ANet's devs beating a dead horse again and again with each patch for what appear to be only for the sake of keeping something badly designed at all cost.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lol it isn't a pve focussed change. Pve the other 2 traits are way better.
    That's purely a wvw change aimed at wvw

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this is a weird change. not only was this not needed, there seems little reason to not have it now since imo its way better.

  • XECOR.2814XECOR.2814 Member ✭✭✭

    +the animation sucks..

    Like every scg animation.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this is a weird change. not only was this not needed, there seems little reason to not have it now since imo its way better.

    I mean, effectiveness is a good reason to not use it. Harbinger's Shroud does less damage and less torment stacks with fewer on-hit/crit proc chances than normal desert shroud.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this is a weird change. not only was this not needed, there seems little reason to not have it now since imo its way better.

    I mean, effectiveness is a good reason to not use it. Harbinger's Shroud does less damage and less torment stacks with fewer on-hit/crit proc chances than normal desert shroud.

    its not that much of a damage loss since the whole animation takes half as long.

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this is a weird change. not only was this not needed, there seems little reason to not have it now since imo its way better.

    I mean, effectiveness is a good reason to not use it. Harbinger's Shroud does less damage and less torment stacks with fewer on-hit/crit proc chances than normal desert shroud.

    its not that much of a damage loss since the whole animation takes half as long.

    Doesn't really matter, though. In PvP/WvW, the 3 second delay means you deal no damage at all. In PvE, the extra 3 seconds are meaningless.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 8, 2019

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this is a weird change. not only was this not needed, there seems little reason to not have it now since imo its way better.

    I mean, effectiveness is a good reason to not use it. Harbinger's Shroud does less damage and less torment stacks with fewer on-hit/crit proc chances than normal desert shroud.

    its not that much of a damage loss since the whole animation takes half as long.

    Doesn't really matter, though. In PvP/WvW, the 3 second delay means you deal no damage at all. In PvE, the extra 3 seconds are meaningless.

    hmm missed that part somehow lol. I only looked at the wiki.

  • This could use a coefficient nerf in pvp honestly. 11k aoe barriers that deal damage strip boons and stack torment are pretty strong.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Mammoth.1975 said:
    This could use a coefficient nerf in pvp honestly. 11k aoe barriers that deal damage strip boons and stack torment are pretty strong.

    The part of the skill that shares barrier won't get anywhere near 11k.

    Also people have a full 3 seconds to not get hit by the skill with the largest telegraph there is.

  • Sure but it gets close to 5k, and 11k personal. While stunned. It's pretty mindless, and "just dodge" is still a worthless argument after all these years, even if it is very easy to dodge. I'm surprised people still break it out. Shrug, we will see what happens I guess. People kitten about scrappers since the patch haven't seen what scourge is capable of now.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Mammoth.1975 said:
    Sure but it gets close to 5k, and 11k personal. While stunned.

    Not really that different to entering shroud on any other necro spec though? Also to get anywhere near that you need to invest heavily into healing power. The stats don't come from nowhere. If you've gone so heavily into healing power you'll be missing stats elsewhere.

    It's pretty mindless, and "just dodge" is still a worthless argument after all these years, even if it is very easy to dodge. I'm surprised people still break it out.

    Don't remember typing anything to do with dodging.....I said not get hit not "just dodge". There are a lot of way to not get hit by something that has a 3 second arm time with one of the largest telegraphs in the game. In any competitive game 3 seconds is a lot of time. You can dodge it but you can also walk out if it, time a block, time a blind, mobility yourself away etc etc. You have a lot of option besides "just dodge" ...

    Shrug, we will see what happens I guess. People kitten about scrappers since the patch haven't seen what scourge is capable of now.

    It's not really that much different to pre patch for scourge. It may have slightly more strength in some way, less in others, but still all of the same weaknesses.

  • Well I guess I just lucked out jumping 100 rating. I wouldn't get too attached tbh.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2019

    @Mammoth.1975 said:
    Well I guess I just lucked out jumping 100 rating. I wouldn't get too attached tbh.

    Well, sPvP is a team based gamemode, you don't get 100 rating due to your profession, you often get 100 rating because all the players in your team choose to actually try to win some match.

    When you see some sPvP match streamed by so-called pro players that sit out the match at the begining to look at how their teammates fair and 30s later say: "Well, I guess we lose this one, it's not worth carrying them." You directly understand that there is something terribly wrong. Those "pro-players" overestimate themself and by not putting their weight in the match are the main responsible for the loss, not the 4 other guys that actually try to play 4v5.

  • That's what I said. Just lucky.

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Mammoth.1975 said:
    Well I guess I just lucked out jumping 100 rating. I wouldn't get too attached tbh.

    Well, sPvP is a team based gamemode, you don't get 100 rating due to your profession, you often get 100 rating because all the players in your team choose to actually try to win some match.

    When you see some sPvP match streamed by so-called pro players that sit out the match at the begining to look at how their teammates fair and 30s later say: "Well, I guess we lose this one, it's not worth carrying them." You directly understand that there is something terribly wrong. Those "pro-players" overestimate themself and by not putting their weight in the match are the main responsible for the loss, not the 4 other guys that actually try to play 4v5.

    Yes. That's it, right there.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What if we do something crazy:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJBIhcSSDU1LYaDweDW6GspHgAAVHYEco07pSqA-jVyGQBLVJXb0DoIVSCq6GQVJIH2fgcnAgapcAAPAgAAHAv39A493f/93fvu/+7v/+7v/+7vXKA/mZB-w

    Keep allies alive with regeneration, transfusion and barriers from f3.

    Ok. So even though I first thought that harbingers shroud would be bad, this build could make use of it.
    It would dish out a very good amount of barrier on 10 people with harbingers shroud and might even get big heals from life from death. (9k barrier from f5+f3 should max out the barrier amount of any raid member)

    Well with these stats that should be around 450-470 hps from permanent regeneration.
    And I'd still play vampiric presence. Never really investigated, if outgoing healing affects lifeleech.

    Water sigil should still be proccing very often.
    And the well is very nice to rezz people or to pump out around 1400 hps for 5 seconds.

    Sure this is just as second healer.

    Gonna test this build this evening.

  • anyone know when the on shroud traits happen with the new mechanic? specifically foot in the grave (stability on enter) and the heal when u leave shroud blood trait?

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bull Zooker.1672 said:
    anyone know when the on shroud traits happen with the new mechanic? specifically foot in the grave (stability on enter) and the heal when u leave shroud blood trait?

    IIRC, Life from Death triggers at the "explosion," so at the same time as it grants barrier to allies and hits enemies.

  • @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @Bull Zooker.1672 said:
    anyone know when the on shroud traits happen with the new mechanic? specifically foot in the grave (stability on enter) and the heal when u leave shroud blood trait?

    IIRC, Life from Death triggers at the "explosion," so at the same time as it grants barrier to allies and hits enemies.

    this makes the stun break element pointless, this should definitely be moved to "on activation".
    thanks for the info (y)

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bull Zooker.1672 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:

    @Bull Zooker.1672 said:
    anyone know when the on shroud traits happen with the new mechanic? specifically foot in the grave (stability on enter) and the heal when u leave shroud blood trait?

    IIRC, Life from Death triggers at the "explosion," so at the same time as it grants barrier to allies and hits enemies.

    this makes the stun break element pointless, this should definitely be moved to "on activation".
    thanks for the info (y)

    Not so fast, there. "Life From Death" is a "leaving shroud" trait. Those trigger at the explosion.

    "Enter Shroud" traits trigger at the moment you get the initial Barrier.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • phs.6089phs.6089 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mammoth.1975 said:
    This could use a coefficient nerf in pvp honestly. 11k aoe barriers that deal damage strip boons and stack torment are pretty strong.

    First you gotta manage to get so much LF in sPvP and the luxury to spend it.

    "There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city."

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ok, my final build:

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQRBIhh+xJJNQVvgpNA7NYpbw07pH1k60DYAEAo6AjgDFA-jVyGQBQVJYQV1QRqlAgnAQb0Pwh9HqlyHydSAWqSoAAHAv39u39g3f/93f/96+7v/+7v/+7v/epA8bmF-w

    Good things:
    Healing well heals for ~1200 per tick
    Regeneration heals for ~410 per tick
    Vampiric presence: 90 heal per trigger (max 2 per second)= 180hps
    So we have permanent 500-600 heal per second with just VP and regeneration.
    Transfusion is also almost equally high as full magi.

    Problems I encountered:
    -Cannot outheal the heavy ticking dmg from golem test room

    -So with the most recent nerfs to druid, I guess we cannot guarantee a 100% vigor uptime anymore:
    Mark of evasion: Is heavily dependant on vigor, else you will be out of dodges very fast

    -life from death, seems fun to play at first, but is pretty much useless if players are already full health. I found vampiric presence more useful.

    Also some math:

    Life from death: 17 seconds + 3 second = 20 seconds cd with harbingers shroud equipped. Heals for 3400.

    Vampiric presence: minimum heal: 0 assuming noone does any hits
    Maximum heal assuming a hit ever half second: (90x2x17)+(175x2x3)= 3060+1050= 4110 heal
    Average heal, assuming 1 hit per second: 1530+525= 2055 heal

    Assuming normal raid encounters with like no attack downtimes:
    VP is better
    Trait choice is heavily dependent on boss encounter.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Does VP benefit form outgoing healing? Since life from death should which would out it at ~4100. Also with decent alacrity cool-down everything else should tip in favour of LfD.

  • Mammoth.1975Mammoth.1975 Member ✭✭
    edited March 12, 2019

    @phs.6089 said:

    @Mammoth.1975 said:
    This could use a coefficient nerf in pvp honestly. 11k aoe barriers that deal damage strip boons and stack torment are pretty strong.

    First you gotta manage to get so much LF in sPvP and the luxury to spend it.

    This is very doable, although your damage suffers for it ;) I'm basically hitting shade abilities on recharge. It's all a balance I guess, it just feels very strong right now.

  • Methuselah.4376Methuselah.4376 Member ✭✭✭

    Necromancer
    Abrasive Grit: Fixed a bug that prevented this trait from functioning properly with the second hit of Harbinger Shroud.

    Tested it in game. Now we get the effects of Abrasive Grit from both hits of Harbinger's Shroud :3

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