battledrone.8315

im not saying, that hardcore content shouldnt exist, i am saying, that it is a bad idea to put it in the story and expect the normal player to adaptas it is now, the difference between the core game and the expansions are truly mindblowing, they almost feel like different gamesand the elite specs was prolly the worst decision ever, they INTENTIONALLY make max level newbies.

there is a reason, why so few games still have this mechanic. decay is the definition of grind.

You do understand that Season 3 requires Heart of Thorns and Season 4 Path of Fire right? I'm not sure why a fight in either season's content should be considerably easier than any of the fights in the expansions themselves. Are you saying that the vast majority of players didn't finish the expansion content? This would certainly cause concern but I doubt that's the case. perhaps thats why they didnt want to make more expansions at all? they only made the announcement after the forums lit up...i barely finshed the core game on a couple of toons. never got close to that in the expansions You mean they don't want to make expansions because players haven't finished the current ones? That's a rather far stretch considering they released a second expansion. And besides, the content of the seasons wasn't/isn't "core game level" either, and some bosses are over-tuned (see OP) you'd think if the core was the best challenge level they'd release content similar to that and not release expansion/seasons for 5 years that hurt their game. After all they do have data and use analytics that would tell them if the players had such difficulties with the expansions. and if it worked as planned, you can bet , that they wouldnt had put them on ice. a business wont make any changes, if their products are doing well.the second expansion was ½ price and easier too.i guess it was the same analytics, that gave the okay to the "no expansion" approach By your own logic if the core game was doing so well, they wouldn't make changes to it with the expansions. How do you explain the drastic changes in the expansions then? You've expressed your dissatisfaction over the direction of the game in many threads, praising the "core game" and disliking everything that came after it. It's been almost 8 years. I'm sure following a certain path over a course of 8 years is based on some form of data and not as a way to spite players like you that enjoyed only the core experience. Some food for thought now and more on the actual topic: the bosses in the Core game are also damage sponges, especially if you go after them at the appropriate level, with appropriate gear. If you finished the core game so many times you must remember the battle of claw island or the forging the pact mission where you fought some bosses with greatly inflated health pools (and no mechanics whatsoever) making them a very tedious experience. And they aren't the only ones, since the personal story lacks any meaningful mechanics in its fights, big health pools were the only way to make fights last longer. Even the 5 starter bosses have inflated health pools and are a challenge for the player to stay awake while fighting them. Yes, they are tutorial bosses they shouldn't be "hard", obviously, but they take a great time to kill, by doing almost nothing, all while hearing the npcs talking about them as if it's the end of the world. tl;dr Damage sponges have always been a part of this game, usually there to pad the encounter time. Boring and tedious are the words best describing that part of the game. I guess Arenanet can go from one extreme to another extreme very easily. They upped the mechanical challenge of later encounters, but forgot to solve that glaring issue with the core experience.the core game has some serious issues as well, specifically the 3 last zones and zhaitan fight. and the nerfs there supports my theorythe buildup to zhaitan is way too long, and if he was only ½ as powerful as they claim him to be, then the fight should already be overseveral story missions in the levelling process have HUGE difficulty spikes too, they stick out like sore thumbclaw island wasnt the worst, gathering the pact is MUCH worse...long, tedious, and super buggy.i have suffered though it many times, only to have it bug out in the end.and i usually went 10 lvls above story missions, before i even tried them

You do understand that Season 3 requires Heart of Thorns and Season 4 Path of Fire right? I'm not sure why a fight in either season's content should be considerably easier than any of the fights in the expansions themselves. Are you saying that the vast majority of players didn't finish the expansion content? This would certainly cause concern but I doubt that's the case. perhaps thats why they didnt want to make more expansions at all? they only made the announcement after the forums lit up...i barely finshed the core game on a couple of toons. never got close to that in the expansions You mean they don't want to make expansions because players haven't finished the current ones? That's a rather far stretch considering they released a second expansion. And besides, the content of the seasons wasn't/isn't "core game level" either, and some bosses are over-tuned (see OP) you'd think if the core was the best challenge level they'd release content similar to that and not release expansion/seasons for 5 years that hurt their game. After all they do have data and use analytics that would tell them if the players had such difficulties with the expansions.and if it worked as planned, you can bet , that they wouldnt had put them on ice. a business wont make any changes, if their products are doing well.the second expansion was ½ price and easier too.i guess it was the same analytics, that gave the okay to the "no expansion" approach

that would actually make it a game for me. if you want me to do work, you would have to pay me.

You do understand that Season 3 requires Heart of Thorns and Season 4 Path of Fire right? I'm not sure why a fight in either season's content should be considerably easier than any of the fights in the expansions themselves. Are you saying that the vast majority of players didn't finish the expansion content? This would certainly cause concern but I doubt that's the case. perhaps thats why they didnt want to make more expansions at all? they only made the announcement after the forums lit up...i barely finshed the core game on a couple of toons. never got close to that in the expansions

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps. 1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention. So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning. imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same. Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks. But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like. if the core game was that bad, they would had tanked hard, like swtor did, and they didnt Well everything up to Orr is honestly so easy you can afk auto attack through most of it, Orr was the first area that posed any difficulty. So it's exactly like that, poems and knitting until level 70-75, and then a rock concert from 70-80 in Orr as you finally have to use the combat system. And if your main thing against Orr is that "I don't like it." at least say so clearly, instead of trying to make up numbers and such. You could just as well turn those numbers on the head and say that the ones that stayed with the game almost to a man bought the expansion packs, so the expansion packs are why they still play, while all those that didn't buy the expansions didn't stick around and thus left the game. That wouldn't make a stellar argument for Core though.and how many times have they nerfed orr now? 3? 4?. same with hot. you can bet , that they wouldnt waste time and resources on that, if they didnt HAVE to.and if the core was THAT bad, they wouldnt be able to sell any expansions AT ALL.who , in their right minds would buy expansions for a game THEY DIDNT LIKE IN THE FIRST PLACE???

market research? WTF ? PEOPLE ARE WRITING IT ON THIS FORUM!!! unless you want them to ignore ALL feedback. and then they can just shut the site down, right?i didnt say anything about "MAJORITY" either. the threads SHOWS THE DEMAND.

Too much hype and promises do bring lots of players in.I'm confused about the expansions comment though, if the expansions were so horrible why would you need an expansion for this game? Why don't you move on after all these years? Or you are simply trolling the boards good expansions bring money and playersbad expansions not so muchlook at wow, steady numbers when they were following the formula, after MoP, steady declineand more core game is the only thing anet havent tried yetdo you really not see the pattern here? Not really answering my question. From what you say I'd guess you didn't like S1 or S2 either, if you disliked Orr that much, Silverwastes/Dry Top would overwhelm you even more. Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, you didn't like it. Path of Fire was released in 2017, you didn't like it. This means you haven't liked what this game offers since early 2013/ late 2012. That's 8 years of not liking something yet posting on the forums. Do notice that both expansions brought money and players. It's a few quarters after the expansions that they started to decline (which is normal, you release another expansion to move forward)and that should tell you how good the core game was. unless corona gets me, im gonna be on these pages for many more years.i actually made map completion in LS 2 on a couple of toons. yes it was a PITA, so im not doing it anymoreif the expansions were so successful, then why havent they made another yet? they should have the resources for it, and there is a clear demand for it too

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps. 1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention. So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning. imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same. Actually the opposite, you go to a rock concert, and only the LAST act lives up to it. All the maps before that are poem readings and teaching you how to knit socks. But back to the topic, different people like different things. So if you liked all the maps before Orr and hated everything from Orr and that they released later, just say so. Instead of trying to make up some numbers games about it. You don't even seem to be trying to make arguments in your last few posts, it sounds more like you're trying to argue that my favorite color isn't my favorite color because it has to be another color that I don't like.if the core game was that bad, they would had tanked hard, like swtor did, and they didnt

Too much hype and promises do bring lots of players in.I'm confused about the expansions comment though, if the expansions were so horrible why would you need an expansion for this game? Why don't you move on after all these years? Or you are simply trolling the boards good expansions bring money and playersbad expansions not so muchlook at wow, steady numbers when they were following the formula, after MoP, steady declineand more core game is the only thing anet havent tried yetdo you really not see the pattern here?

You can't "remove the meta". And the expansions aren't hard. why could i complete the core game, but not the expansions, then? ...because apparently you failed at learning the basics of the game and its mechanics? Which still doesn't make it hard, it's probably more of a "I just want to press 1 and watch stuff die while I get fat lootz" -in that case you might want to go play an idle/clicker game instead of an rpg. I fail to see the logic in that, there's so many games that aren't hard and yet never reach "millions of players" that I'm not even sure how you came up with this statement. What backlash? Seems to me people in general are happy with the expansions. the few remaining players are obviously, happy or they would had left too "few"? So what? How does it answer to what I wrote? Not really, that's just another empty claim. Again, how is this answer to what I wrote? Why did you decide to include some meaningless slogans here?why are you still reading this thread, if you dont even try to understand it?

well, you are attacking the berries, so its only fair that they get to fight back. plants are people too, you know....

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood I used to hate Orr on launch (mostly because of the undead-wasteland theme), but nowadays they're my favorite core maps. 1: I can kind of agree, but I've just learned to appreciate the weird mix of colors, almost like an oil spill.2: Never noticed3: This is one of the main reasons I LOVE the maps, I mean seriously kitten hearts! I think all my favorite maps these days are anything without hearts (Tangled Depts excepted).4: Another reason why Orr maps are my favorite cor maps, are because the monsters actually try to fight back, later maps are better for this, but Orr are about the only Core maps where you can actually die to mobs if you don't pay attention. So, people are different, and got different opinions and tastes, the sun continues to rise each morning.imagine you buy tickets to a rock concert. the first set is great, the whole room is rocking. then they just switch to guy, reading poems.and the 3rd act is modern expressionistic dance. not much of a ROCK CONCERT , was it?even when the first set was great, that band wont sell many more ticketsthis is the same.

Most accounts didn't even reach those 3 "horrible zones", they stopped much earlier. even the mighty wow only had 10 % of the players go past lvl 20. and that was at its prime. only 5% ever reached max level.such is the nature of the mmo business. and when they went F2P they opened the gates for a ton of alts and mules, they will make italmost impossible to use account metrics anymore. That doesn't change the fact that a lot of the players stopped before those "horrible" 3 zones, meaning they found something they didn't like much earlier. You keep saying that the expansions are horrible, yet the expansions are superior to the core game for quite a lot of players. There are some that would still prefer the core game over the expansions, but that begs the question what they are doing in the game, Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, it's 2020, expecting the game to "go back to core" is unreasonable and all it would do is force the existing players to leave the game. And further, Season 1 and Season 2 both had content beyond the core game, Dry Top and Silverwastes make Orr look like a joke, so it still begs the question what are these types of players still doing in the game. perhaps they arent in the game anymore, and that is why revenue is dropping? just guessing here.... The revenue was dropping much faster during the first year though. Maybe if they didn't make the expansions the game would be dead by now.and they had MANY more players back then . so, the drop is going to be much bigger too.prolly not dead, but in a much worse state, than now. mmos without expansions are in limbo.im playing champions online, and THAT game is in maintenance mode. but they stilll managed to make a new class.something is very wrong with the number of anet workers and the amount of content they put out

Most accounts didn't even reach those 3 "horrible zones", they stopped much earlier. even the mighty wow only had 10 % of the players go past lvl 20. and that was at its prime. only 5% ever reached max level.such is the nature of the mmo business. and when they went F2P they opened the gates for a ton of alts and mules, they will make italmost impossible to use account metrics anymore. That doesn't change the fact that a lot of the players stopped before those "horrible" 3 zones, meaning they found something they didn't like much earlier. You keep saying that the expansions are horrible, yet the expansions are superior to the core game for quite a lot of players. There are some that would still prefer the core game over the expansions, but that begs the question what they are doing in the game, Heart of Thorns was released in 2015, it's 2020, expecting the game to "go back to core" is unreasonable and all it would do is force the existing players to leave the game. And further, Season 1 and Season 2 both had content beyond the core game, Dry Top and Silverwastes make Orr look like a joke, so it still begs the question what are these types of players still doing in the game.perhaps they arent in the game anymore, and that is why revenue is dropping? just guessing here....

1: its ugly.2: filled with annoying, sounds3:no hearts4:im pretty sure, that it kicked my dog AND ruined my childhood

Most accounts didn't even reach those 3 "horrible zones", they stopped much earlier. even the mighty wow only had 10 % of the players go past lvl 20. and that was at its prime. only 5% ever reached max level.such is the nature of the mmo business. and when they went F2P they opened the gates for a ton of alts and mules, they will make italmost impossible to use account metrics anymore.

this game has the best levelling experience on the market, too bad they didnt make more of that. and since its FREE, they cant even make moneyon it anymore. the core game actually feels a lot like wow cataclysm IMO

It's the other way around. If they like the free part, they will buy the expansions. If they don't like the free part, they won't buy the expansions. After all, how would they know the next part is "bad" if they don't try it? Which is exactly what was going on before going free to play. Do note that even in the case that a player thinks they won't like an expansion, based on the opinion of others, they will still use the gem store to support the game they enjoy. If the core game was THAT good they will buy the expansion, the core game, which is free, is the demo, or the advertisement for the game, it's up to it to sell the expansions. And generate gem store revenue. Exactly because it's not very up to par is why expansions, the gem store, and the game's revenue as a whole is suffering. have you ever met zhaitan? the creature they built up during most of the game? do you remember how bad it was?we had a ELDER DRAGON, who forgot about her CLAWS. she forgot about GRAVITY. but she can still TELEPORT TROOPS ONTO A FLYING AIRSHIP.all she had to do was to fly ON TOP of the airship and scratch a little. but no, lets use the difficult solution, that doesnt work any way.and that is after the 3 last horrible zones. its a little miracle, that so many could get through it at all.i did it twice. and considering how many times i had to rezz the others, i am far from the bottom of the barrel tooand people who want to support the core game, dont GET more core game either. all you want is other players to pay for YOUR entertainment.the expansions are totally different from the core game.

in other words: dont change the product, change the consumer. good luck with that. lets hope they dont run out of consumers.

While a logical explanation, the gameplay is not improved by it. It's annoying, not challenging. As others have noticed, HoT enemies are generally more dangerous, but they don't attack from a mile away! its not a gear grind...its a MOUNT grind, so they technically didnt break their own promisesdifferent name, same purpose.

You can't "remove the meta". And the expansions aren't hard. why could i complete the core game, but not the expansions, then? ...because apparently you failed at learning the basics of the game and its mechanics? Which still doesn't make it hard, it's probably more of a "I just want to press 1 and watch stuff die while I get fat lootz" -in that case you might want to go play an idle/clicker game instead of an rpg. I fail to see the logic in that, there's so many games that aren't hard and yet never reach "millions of players" that I'm not even sure how you came up with this statement. What backlash? Seems to me people in general are happy with the expansions.the few remaining players are obviously, happy or they would had left toobut all those, who left ,werentanet have the numbers, and you can bet, that if they were GOOD numbers, they would had made more of the samea well run business builds on its strengths, and hides its weaknesses

It is normal when said game goes free to play with the release of the expansion. A core game that was actually selling at the time. Even NCSoft at the time said that conversions are low, meaning free to play players turning into paying customers. You see up to the release of HOT anyone that wanted to try the game had to pay for it. After HOT they could try it for free, and IF the core game managed to grab them, they'd buy the expansion. But that was confirmed by NCSoft that it didn't happen, it's not the fault of the expansion. The vast majority of this game's accounts haven't reached any of the two expansions, is that the fault of the expansions? No, it's the fault of the core game for not grabbing the attention of those players long enough so they can buy the expansions. The reason you don't see millions of players playing the expansions, is because the core game didn't manage to meet expectations for those players to buy the expansions. Since you talked about the drop in income after HOT, watch the drop in income after... release. They are doing some effort now, some many years later, to improve the starting experience, maybe it will work out and free players will start converting. tl;dr Don't blame the expansions, the core game is what is lacking. It might've been good on release, but 8 years later it shows its age. they already got the good part for free, why should they pay for the bad part? and the last 3 zones in core are HORRIBLE+ the zhaitan fight itself...yeawhen (if) they reach that part, they have prolly heard the general opinion on the expansionsand its easier to sell a meal to a hungry man, than a well fed one