ShroomOneUp.6913
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Posts posted by ShroomOneUp.6913
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5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
Wait, you're pretending you're "indulging" in anything here?
You literally dodged the main part of the post:
What exactly was the power creep to those base classes between 2014 and now? The main power creep came with especs. And since they go "out of the window" on builds with level 78, it's irrelevant. And seeing how balance changes are more often NERFS than anything else... Let's go, where's that power creep comming from in that video? Even moreso for undergeared levels 78? 🙃
🤔
i said you can not disprove someone's claim with something that is after the time period of said false claim.
you do not show a moon landing from 2025 when someone claims that in 1980 mankind was never able to get to the moon. you show him the moon landings during that time period or better yet the first moon landing in 1968 long before the time he claimed people were not able to go to the moon.
it doesn't matter that this video exists as it s done in may 2021, the claim was that people could not do raids in 2014 and that only through power creep are only possible now. then you do NOT show a video from AFTER the time period that supposed power creep happened, BUT BEFORE that.
THIS IS WHY that video is a non argument and it doesn't help that the guys in the video are 24/7 raiders either. cause this is after all STILL a thread talking about removal of the enrage timer, a topic started by a very obvious average GW2 player and not an experienced raider.-
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11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
What exactly was the power creep to those base classes between 2014 and now? The main power creep came with especs. And since they go "out of the window" on builds with level 78, it's irrelevant. Let's go, where's that power creep comming from in that video? Even moreso at undergeared levels 78? 🙃
Btw you've missed something from the previous post (probably edited it in a bit too late):
Nothing in this claim says anything about average pug. In turn it literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..."
You understand what "no amount of skill would be able to overcome.." means, right? Let's make sure: what do you think this part means?
(and the other post you made)
"to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014."
i indulge now in WHY this would be the correct response to the claim "raids impossible without power creep and no skill can over come it."
because its a video from 2021 after the supposed power creep that "made raids possible " the person who made that statement can very easily claim NOW that the power creep "made it possible in the first place" for these guys to do the raid low leveled and under geared, that "the power creep is even worse" than he first stated.
To make the point indisputable and uncontestable that his claim is false the video should have been a pug doing a raid in 2014 and be successful.as at that point in time the "power creep that made raids possible" was not there according to that persons claim.
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3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
Strong denial, keep re-reading until it clicks (ok, I'll make it shorter, maybe you're just getting lost in longer sentences? I seriously don't know at this point):
The claim literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..." -then you say that the link is a non-argument, because those players are skilled. I mean... 🤪
keep on NOT reading what i wrote. quiet literally the semi last sentence from my last response to you is all i need now to fling at you repeatedly.
"to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014."-
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2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
So I take it that you don’t have any?I was asking because commenting about what can and cannot be done in raids without any experience is like me saying what it is and isn’t like to live in New York City without having lived there.
false. i could know how it is to live in NYC if i'd inform myself by someone or more people who DID live there. i do NOT have to been there. i literally just told you that. are you willfully dismissing it just to make look like you had a point? no you do not have one
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3 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
Here's the claim that link was responding to (agaaain and agaaaaain):
Raids wouldn't even be possible without all the powercreep to begin with. If ten players from 2014 Core game stepped foot in a raid, they'd die in a heartbeat, and no amount of skill would be able to overcome the lack of tools neccessary to complete the job.
You said that link is a non-argument. It is false. It shows the quoted claim to be wrong. You're wrong. And now your claim about your ability to read also seems to be a stretch, because this is at least 4th time that I've quoted/linked to that quote. The claim literally says "no amount of skill would be able to overcome..." -then you say that the link is a non-argument, because those players are skilled. I mean... 🤪
and it still stand what i said: taking a video with 10 people, who do speed run tournaments of raids, from 2021 does not refute what he said as it take the highest possible skilled players and not the average pug player as a measurement. not to mention that it IS a video made AFTER the claimed years long power creep that made raids "possible in the first place".
to disprove that claim it had to be raid video done by the average pug done in 2014.how is that so hard to understand?
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1 minute ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
I had asked this several posts ago but it may have been missed.
What is your experience with raids in this game?
does a sport commentator have to have played in the major leagues himself in order to know what they are talking about? no they don't, they can be informed regardless. and taking people who are very very very good and experienced and expect people who are NOT that to be just as capable is Just insane and it doesn't require to be well informed to call that out.
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2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
If you can read, then make sure to re-read this post 10 times until it hits home (CLICK on it and read the original):
Make sure to read what it quotes and have fun with your later mental gymnastics while still pretending it wasn't a completely relevant response to the quoted claim, proving that claim to be objectively false. 🙃
may i present
On 6/23/2021 at 6:07 PM, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:oh nice non argument, taking 10 people who have been raiding for years, are coordinated and trained in the raids, KNOW the raids because of those years managed this WOW. whats next? gonna use a 30 years master in black smithing showing how possible it is for the most inefficient way to smith a blade and expect everyone else to do it?
and subsequent follow ups you didn't read in which i told several times WHY that argument does not work and how it could work but thats something you seem to conveniently ignore all the time
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2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
That in no way has anything to do with what I said. You cannot just use “because of experience” to refute everything.but it does in this case cause the preparation, the skipping of mechanics, the entire thing is only possible because these 10 guys knew what they were doing, cause they did it so many times before.
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1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:
CHECK THE QUOTED CLAIM THAT THE LINKED VIDEO WAS RESPONDING TO.
And stop being in denial, it's getting sad.
you should work in a cinema, they need better projectors.
where is said quoted claim? ah in a thread arguing about the removal of enrage timers. hmmm
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2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
The thing that you’re still missing is the amount of mechanics which can be ignored.they know about because of experience.,
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1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:
Where did I ignore anything? Can you read? I quoted the claim for you multiple times already. Make sure to read it this time, because I guess you still didn't? Or are you really just settled so deep in your denial that you refuse to accept what the actual claim was for the sake of not admitting you're wrong?
Lets go with direct example based on reality: humans can potentially run with a speed of 44.72 km/h. We know that, because that's how fast Usain Bolt ran. If you say "humans can't possibly run 44 km/h", it's objectively false and you're wrong. In this case it would be you trying to argue that "humans can't run this fast, because it was only Usain Bolt who did it!". And yet, you'd still be wrong, just like you are now. Get over yourself, because this is getting sad.
i can, you apparently not cause i just told you. also this thread is about removing enrage timer or not. again. if you were able to read you would see it right above ALL the post made in here. and once again using your example:
just because usain bolt can run at 44km/h does not mean you should expect it from others, mostly NON athlets, even if it is possible.
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3 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
As I said before, their experience is separate from what can and cannot be done in raids as far as builds and comps go. Raids are cleared with a lot of time left on the timer which leaves plenty of room are less efficient builds. Unless players are playing more defensive builds and hitting against the enrage timer as a result, you cannot make the argument that remove enrage timers will have any effect.
He memes a lot for entertainment of his viewers.
Anyone with experience in raids know that scourge isn’t going to let you bypass many raid mechanics.
it literally is the basis on how they approach things. this video is merely a snippet from a 8 hr stream two of them were they literally planned and organized ANY THING for 1-2 hours before they even started. planning and approach only possible through experience.
and him memeing does not change the fact he is serious about scourge. he has been asked about it numerous times during streams and he does state even while not joking around that scourge does make it possible to ignore mechanics even before the last big balance update.
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7 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
The claim was literally "raids wouldn't be possible without power creep". It was never under the question if it was supposed to be done by 10 worst players on the server, 10 best players on the server or 10 average, randomly picked players from starting zones. Again, the claim said "raids wouldn't be possible without power creep". Understand what you read before you try to argue something. Going with a more extreme example for the sake of helping you understand: if ONE person in the world can do something, that something is automatically deemed possible. Nobody cares about you trying to move to goalpost, you're wrong.
It's been over 5 years. Can we remove Enrage Timers already?
that is the threads topic. any argument made with people playing raids since launch does not matter cause this thread is made by an average player. there are better and more constructive ways to say not to enrage timer removal then showing people who are "gods" in raiding
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5 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
Stop dodging, the fact remains that it was directly relevant to the quoted false claim. Now you're just trying not to admit you were wrong and, clearly, you were.
And btw what exactly are you trying to argue about here? What point are you aiming at, in relation to this thread or anything here?
says the people constantly ignoring that his argument can only work when it was done by average player. talk about projection. any argument for or against anything regarding raids based merely on the performance off people who are clearly not the average player is void. the argument is about removing or not removing the enrage timer for the average player. and as it so will the average player in GW2 is quiet low in skill. so taking people who have been raiding since the mode was released in the game can NOT be used as an argument FOR AVERAGE players.
7 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:The question on which the vid was a response to the statement that pre hot raid would have been impossible to complete NO MATTER THE SKILL. This statement was not about average raiders
same goes for this.
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Just now, yann.1946 said:
That is not what anyone is saying though.
but they do cause the people in the video are NOT the average player, they literally do speed run raid tournaments.
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1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:
How is this a "non argument" when very clearly (because that's what's quoted there) what it was the response to was this:
"Raids wouldn't even be possible without all the powercreep to begin with. If ten players from 2014 Core game stepped foot in a raid, they'd die in a heartbeat, and no amount of skill would be able to overcome the lack of tools neccessary to complete the job. Even now, the same content isn't nothing like it was during HoT release. "
Seems like a very VERY direct response tightly related to the false claim it was responding to. And not only it was on base builds without especs, it was also underleveled and undergeared. So what EXACTLY is a non-argument here? That it was played by people understanding the content? LOL
apparently when "masteres" can, the average nobody is expected to be just as skillful. but hey if a major league soccer player can outplay an entire team of 11 local league players then the reverse should be possible huh? no it isn't
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2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
Just because they have experience and skill, this does not mean others cannot do the same.after countless time of raiding themselves.
2 minutes ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
Not really. It will not make up for failing mechanics.literally does. its broken. the very person in that video, mightyTpot, does say so himself. even made a carry tier list with scourge being above god tier.
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22 hours ago, Ayrilana.1396 said:
Being able to bunker down isn’t going to help them if they fail mechanics.but thats what scourge is doing though. both of them: heal scourge and plague doctor scourge
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On 6/23/2021 at 7:58 PM, Ayrilana.1396 said:
It shows the range of what is possible in order to successfully complete raids. A lot of non-raiders are under the misconception that specific meta builds and high DPS are required. You don’t need any of that to successfully beat any of the raids other than maybe Largos. They then make suggestions, such as removing enrage timers, expecting that to have a significant impact on resolving their issue.no it doesn't. its experience and honed skill that helped them to handle it
22 hours ago, CasualElitist.8795 said:The original argument was "Raids wouldn't even be possible without all the powercreep to begin with". So I link a video showing there is no power creep needed to succesfully complete a raid, hell you don't even have to be lvl 80 or elite spec. What do you not understand?
and show people who know raids in and out and not an average group is exactly how do not show it. and if it was done by an average group and not people who participated in raid speed run tournaments one could even argue it DOES show power creep to some extent being a thing.
22 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:If the 30 year master gets to only use 1 hand, is blindfolded and has to heat the metal with a fire he has to make himself one handed, then yes, that would be an accurate comparison.
Level 76 exotic gear is approximately equivalent to rare level 80 gear (and quite a few stat combinations were only available as level 74 like cleric). Even worse, you do not get HoT or PoF stat combinations for support builds or condi builds.
Level 78 means no elite specialization, which is another huge hit to support builds and boon uptime and actually requires completely unique approaches to how to get the boon setup done. Not to mention the lower damage output of core builds versus elite specializations.
The lower level of the armor and weapons means a lower damage stat and armor stat which both reduces damage done even further as well as increases damage taken (by approximately 5% base damage stat versus exotic, far more versus ascended weapons) on top of all the other things.
Finally level 78 also means a loss of 46 vitality, toughness, precision and power. Which is the equivalent of losing a food buff worth of offensive stats (46 power and 46 precision) and a significant amount of base defensive stats (460 health and 46 toughness). Speaking off, level 78 ALSO means no level 80 food and nourishment. That is ANOTHER loss of stats.
I'm unsure you really appreciate HOW much of a penalty this is or in fact understand how much harder the game gets with these penalties. The fact that it was done by experienced players is secondary given the huge possible gearing and performance increases for level 80s. Not only that but it was done WITH skipping certain mechanics like Gorseval updrafts which are strait up DPS checks.
as stated before one could very well use this very video as a proof powercreep in raids is a thing, but only if it was group that is not known to do speed run raid tournaments.
and yes THAT was the comparison i was making, cause the master still knows what to do.
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On 6/15/2021 at 12:52 PM, CasualElitist.8795 said:
May I interest you with that video of 78 level core specs doing whole W1 without hitting enrage timers or gorse updrafts? It's not about the classes and power creep.
oh nice non argument, taking 10 people who have been raiding for years, are coordinated and trained in the raids, KNOW the raids because of those years managed this WOW. whats next? gonna use a 30 years master in black smithing showing how possible it is for the most inefficient way to smith a blade and expect everyone else to do it?
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Quote
A player cannot come as their best self
if you play a build that is a full soliders gear with signets then you are NOT your best. just your most comfortable
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easy answer, the rest of icebrood saga and the rumored destroyer saga
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but guys remember, tpot said the future for GW2 is bright
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even this patch no fix for this
It's been over 5 years. Can we remove Enrage Timers already?
in Instanced Group Content
Posted
yes it is. why do you think the "power creep" argument was made? it an additional point made to remove the enrage timer. cause to that person raids are only possible through the power creep, the enrage timer is to the Op and the person who made the power creep argument a hurdle that would be even worse without the "power creep" .
and that's because THEY are the average gw2 player.
anet itself during a guild chat confirmed that even the simple concept of a decent damage build is to roughly around 85% of total players foreign as they do ten times less then a standard exotic berserker geared and mediocre build. so they see at best a 1.2k crit and think this is good. and lets not talk about knowing they can dodge. or jump over dmg waves. I do not want to know how many still run around in soliders or mismatched gear for the type of dmg they are doing. its this ridiculous amount of low skilled players that the statistically average player is also ranked much lower.
So YES it IS a moot point to show those players, who CLEARY struggle, other players who technically could be considered the "1%" of the skill department how they clear a raid in exotic 74 gear. it is close (but not entirely the same) to tell the the homeless or even lower class wage slaves in the US to "just buy a house, bill gates could buy 3"
Like i said not the best 1:1 analogy but the result is the same:
It doesn't help them in the slightest
in fact it can, very much so, cause the opposite, that they even more so believe that the power creep has bigger role in making raids possible and thus wanting them to remove the enrage timers even MORE SO.
but apparently that what people in this thread do not seem to understand.