Tinkerer.2167

There's a reason why herald was played there though, it wasn't because it inherently great on its own, but if you look at the team comps you'll understand why.. It's similar to people saying Untamed is absolutely broken but the only reason Boyce ran it was to counter the 3 specters and no enemy tempest on team in the previous mAT before. It has a niche purpose for very niche things in organized play, that != high tier play spec. A high tier spec would be something that you absolutely need to run, maybe 90% of the time to be competitive, a good example is Specter. You don't really need herald in either of these teams, they're just added as a slot for DPS roaming to pair with BS (and no Tempest hints at that, one of the many hints why it's run here). It's a really bad argument to make for Herald being relevant in organized formats. It's just not, 95% of the time. It's a pug stomper in ranked, and it's fun to play. That's why it's used in ranked at top level and barely used in organized play.

Distortion causes point neutralization, which invalidates the very existence of trying to stay alive for as long as possible on a side node, regardless of 2v1 potential. Also, in ranked it's a known obvious fact that roaming and bursting is king, so it also further invalidates the premise of this class even being any better than it is now. This is why Virt will still be bad post patch. It'll have more survivability for sure though, but I just think it won't amount to much value in the long term for the spec as a whole. Finally, virt is for the most part projectile based... Which I think we both know is already useless because Tempest exists. It gets its entire offense shut down by a single spec.

If we're talking about PvP, it won't matter, untamed is still a better pick. Even with pet swap ability, it just slightly restores a spec that was overnerfed. There's so much more to soulbeast that made it better in its initial state, and pet swapping was only a minor portion of it. Untamed is just a better roaming burster than soulbeast, and for that reason it'll just be flat out better still. Especially since Cata wasn't nerfed, nor was Tempest, which Tempest shuts down Ranger entirely anyway, for that reason you barely see it in competitive. It's definitely going to help the spec in PvP, but untamed will still outperform it based on role priority in ranked. This is at the upper level anyway. I mean, you can pretty much run anything in Gold-Plat1 and be absolutely fine.

No

Well, holo forge isn't that great as a mechanic on it's own though... It's traits that requires you to maintain a maximum heat value to produce damage remotely equivalent across the board with % and might gen (even out of forge because sword skills reflected upon heat value etc) to have an impact and have enough defensives (condi clear), if you don't run it you're basically making 0 impact. Most of the functional aspect of forge is to maintain dmg % for your class across the board, not so much of the value from the kit skills itself. Reaper does have issues though, I just don't get the comparison.

"because they come with exclusive cosmetics " A monthly gizmo is an exclusive cosmetic and a title that is by far more rare than any Fractal, Raid clear you could ever pay for, and that value will vary heavily based on which gizmo it is, for example a golden crown is extremely valuable. It's something you'll never get access to in PvE, and is only achievable by winning a monthly tournament. I understand the topic is more about wintrading, so obviously the title in question is going to be rank1 God of PvP or even the 2nd tier title from then. That alone is even more rare and valuable technically than fractal, raid clears where raid/fractals are more common, and easy to carry through. There is only 1 way to get r1 title, and that method is extremely hard, even if you pay for it. The amount of coordination needed to do it properly is ridiculous and may even be down to luck in a lot of cases. It is in the <0.1% of the population that have one. I'm not sure what your distinction here is, but people will pay a lot of money for them for that reason alone. On Epic accounts with them sell for a minimum $2,000+, and those are just flat alts with Gizmos and nothing else. There's a lot of money not only in mAT's, because top players will flood alts with Gizmos and then sell them, but also because they charge for coaching, Top leaderboard carries and of course, monthly tourney wins. I think though, it's difficult to actually coordinate carrying someone's legit account in an mAT win, because it's heavily monitored, so what they tend to do is just get gizmos for their own alts then sell them and make money that way. It's easier, and it's safer for them.

Maybe but nobody was running around with zerk core ranger before when it was relevant in side node, because when you breath on ranger with zerk it dies... It's just an auto focus, similar to power harb Maul hitting for 9k isn't the issue, because ranger on zerk is a liability and doesn't hit for 9k Maul hitting for 9k on valk is the issue, because it's much more tanky, and even then you were getting 5-6k crits w/ MoC setup But that's irrelevant now... Maul isn't even what makes Untamed busted in ranked, it's a package of everything that makes is a good roaming spec, and there is a lot of classes that are also good in ranked, Herald is very good in ranked, but dogshit in comp. Similar to Herald, Untamed is irrelevant in comp, and only reason it was used by boyce in last eu AT was because enemy team ran 3 specters, which Untamed counters. The moment you put a tempest on the team with a decent comp though, Untamed becomes irrelevant. It's the sad reality. Since support is utter useless in ranked, and roaming is king, it's no question untamed will be much more relevant there. I'm just confused by the logic being thrown out around here.

coping, there's a reason they didnt run DH in mAT when it was really good and it had more consistent dmg uptime than untamed ever will... It's just a good pug stomper build. DPS + Roaming will always be king in ranked, and there's other classes that can do that too, like herald. the ONLY reason boyce ran untamed in mAT was because akimbo mode had 3 specters.. he needed to otherwise it prob would have been bladesworn because his bladesworn brings more value, but since flor can BS it was fine to run. even then they also barely won, even with untamed supposedly countering specter. thinking that untamed would have any value after shade nerfs to specter in mAT now is massive copium. it's only value in competitive is dependent on how good a few other specs are, specter mainly in this case. I will add that it's funny that you mention untamed, which was only brought to provide damage control from the specters and the harb was basically a decoy because you cant let harb free cast + low value kill = their team can do things and have more freedom elsewhere, but the big thing is you don't point out there's 5 thieves in mAT finals xD Like the bias that you show is unreal lol , like people ignore the obvious competitive broken kitten because it's most likely their profession, but point out other stuff because they dont like it.

So your problem isn't untamed, it's with Maul Maul hitting 9k requires some serious setup and zerker ammy.. Obviously it can be done but you need might stacks and MoC setup to do it. You cant just tp in and 9k maul crit. Doesn't work like that.

This probably won't be popular especially in PvE where spirits I imagine are a decent addition, but let's suppose spirits worked off of a toggle instead of spawning clunky AI pets that stand still. Similar to facets in herald Toggling "Spirit essence" as a utility skill gives you access to the spirit skills, this could be activated by a GM in NM. Heal could work like big heal over time in default state, activated could apply regeneration and triggering could give a health explosion to yourself and allies, elite could be something really good but have some impact. Controlled by spirit energy, which is drained over time depending on the amount of spirit "essences" that are activated. Essence explosion could evaporate essences to get boon buffs. It quite literally would work very similar to Revenant's energy consumption Like make them something actually interactive, fun and provide benefit outside of dmg boost bots in PvE, they see absolutely no play outside of that. They haven't been viable outside of PvE since maybe 2013-2014 when the spirit build was busted in a time where the PvP state of the game was very new. A lot of work in reality for one aspect of the class, but that rework could also be tied to an elite spec or just reworked inherently... I think having the GM activate those features in NM would make that line somewhat viable. I guess you still run into the issues of trait diversity like ranger always does. Being forced in NM would take chunks of dmg out of your build, so not sure. Instead of reworking it across the board, since those features would only be controlled by the GM, if you don't have that GM activated, spirits would work like they normally do, so players in PvE could still use the spirit features like they currently work. Just a thought anyway, it's just spirits have been bad for a long time outside of Pve.

What amulet do you run? What traits in mech do you run? What is your rating? Running side node? "It's braindead easy. First game I swapped to it, I didn't have keybinds set up. I literally just pointed the mech at my opponents and went about my usual engineer gameplay without the mech skills. " Don't know if this a meme or should be taken seriously, unless you're running a full burst amulet with the pre/feroc trait the mech does almost nearly no damage, if you control it with soft cc. "The mech never dies. I think the mech died at most 5 times across the ~50 games I played as mechanist. I wasn't even running the barrier signet or sustain traits. I basically didn't ever worry about its health" ? Weaver counters mech, condi alliance/demon counters mech, LR ele counters mech (not even condi btw), signet cata counters mech, Bladesworn literally hardcounters mech... As mech your only good position is to side node, and port in and run f2 to provide stab and alac for teammates... That's it. This is why it's not a good teamfighter, because the mech would die quickly if you're not running the defensive mech traits and a defensive amulet. Also, you need to run mortar elite so nobody would run elite to revive mech, it's a wasted elite. That's why it's good in organized settings. If you're running burst mech, then there's no way you're doing well, because your traits won't allow it, against anybody with a brain that is.

I don't think you understand... the 10k isn't from the mech golem... It's a trait from explosives that produces an orbital strike which is based from stats from the engineer itself after a number of explosions... That's always existed in the engineer core kit, not a mech specific thing.

If you're referring to orbital, it's always done that kind of dmg in pvp, and you need zerk amulet to do it or keep consistent 25 might on you on less burstier amulet and hope your explosion lineup matches to produce an orbital while having those 25 might stacks.. On paper, it sounds good.. In actual fights, it's much less so. If you're talking about jade energy shot, numbers of jade energy shot in your screenshot, you need to have the pre/ferocity trait line selected while you yourself also needs to have a ferocity power amulet on (it only scales on your feroc/pre). You can't equip wizard and do those numbers with a golem (like OP is demonstrating) because it doesn't take 100% of power only 50%, and only precision and ferocity is 100% only from the trait. It's taking only 50% of the stats through the 1st minor. This doesn't go in line with the OP, because the OP has the condition trait selected, which you won't get those numbers and you're keeping perma 25 might on your golem, which I think we both know even with HGH in alch it's practically impossible (no elixir options from the toolbet since you run mech). You couldn't even do that with Grieving amulet which would be the ideal mixture if you wanted to have both condi dmg and spike dmg from your golem (go grieving, run pre/feroc trait). The reason the information is important is because the meta mech build currently isn't even using either the condi or pre/feroc trait, it's using the vit/conc trait because a side noder needs to have that for the survivability options in the Mech f2. If you don't run that you'll just die or more importantly even more so now since mech doesn't have a defiance bar (so weakness, blind, cripple, chill, immob now work on them, not to mention cc's), even with elixir gun you need it and it would die. It's not an optional thing to be efficient with mech now, you just need it which highlights the core problem. The reality is mech even with wizard, rabid or carrion is a soft condi applier. There's other classes that can apply condis better while having better survivability without relying on AI, even untamed can apply condis better (not to mention more weakness consistently and doesn't need to camp elixir gun autos). I'm sorry but if anybody is complaining about mech now, as it stands, really just needs to get better and micro manage golem movement better, it's nowhere close to ranger where they can swap pets out.. You can very easily micromanage the melee mechs... I think the ranged mech is a bit different, but there's so much projectile denial in the game now (even untamed has a low cd f3 pet untamed cloud) that it's kind of irrelevant. This forum post is really just not providing any actual valuable issues or insight and most of it is very mixed from the OP itself to the people replying.

"Its mobility is bad in this new EOD meta. Everything was given a ridiculous amount of teleport & general mobility creep. Bladesworn is very easy to get away from. " Well, I mean there's maybe only 2 classes from EOD that will see play at any kind of actual scale when comparing to HoT/PoF specs and with mech nerfed and vindi losing a lot of it's sustain that is even more apparent. Right? So in reality there's no mobility to compare to for Bladesworn in terms of an "EoD meta", nobody is playing willbender competitively and you can have the same mobility as vindi on rev and it's a more reliable roamer burster despite it's obvious weaknesses, in all reality it's looking like vindi will be more of a noder as Alliance/Demon. There's not enough sustain on harb to even be worth it and specter is more or less the same class but with a bit more team fight potential - still the same mobility. You have a tp on mech, but it's useless now as a side noder, just bring LR ele or any condi spam spec and it's easy so not many will bring it now. EoD brought a bunch more mobility, sure, but if nobody plays them because they're useless then it's kind of a pointless argument. I can bring a lot more mobility and provide insufficient value in another part of the map until Bladesworn gets there, or I can play a more viable spec and sacrifice the mobility in exchange for actual value. So the EoD meta you're referring to just doesn't exist to even try to compare it. If anything the meta in terms of mobility stayed the same with only slight adjustments with EoD coming in. So yea, Bladesworn still is mobile enough when comparing to most of the good specs that are being played in ranked and at the top level.

He has mobility.. dt is on a 4 sec cooldown... lol .. Has good condi removal (aoe too), good sustain, got pressure, bs skills do ridiculous damage at a good range threshold... It's busted. Nevermind that though, after watching markhutirios, grim, anya, naru and jeff duel helio after scrim practices on bladesworn it's safe to say that Bladesworn will easily be the next broken spec once people have gotten it down - its quite literally unbeatable and this is matchups between good players who are probably at the top level of what you could play at in this game on NA at least. It was good before, but immediately got super buffed with vindi and mech nerfs. It was already stalling or beating vindi pre-nerf, it's just demolishing vindi now. Anybody defending and trying to wrap conceptual outplays around this class in terms of avoidance is missing the fact you'd be formulating an entire team platform around the concept of "How do we outplay this class by playing the map?" - then you know it's stupid busted and it's not realistically going to work in ranked. The fact that you have to actually do that, is the same mindset that was with bunker chrono back in the day - they built team comps around not only using it but trying to beat it to a point where they knew it wouldn't work and everyone just ran it, because it was so busted. It seems like that is what you're suggesting here. You're asking an entire group of strangers in ranked with a max threshold of a duo q to decide how they're going to outplay a bladesworn on map rotation because it's simply uncontested in 1v1s and you just have to play the map due to it's hypothetical slowness (which again, theyre not slow) in a PvP mode where not even the top 4-5% players can 1v1 the class.