MidJuly.1839

These kind of posts are just so ignorant.At launch and for a large span of the game's life, downstate worked fine. It wasn't until the insta rezz builds came to prominence that we started getting these polls.What does that tell you? That the game has always favored zergs and its been wrong since launch. Again, not true. Roamers such as myself have always been able to fill in a niche role, roaming in groups of 5+ is another new trend... obviously promoted by recent balance patches. So NO, Zerging was definitely not ALWAYS the way. We used to havoc and party roam, the difference being everyone and their mother knew what size party does what, at their respective timezone.Nowadays you have people rolling with 10 people going for SMC. Sorry guys, the 12 guys randomly capping a vista for their exploration crusade will hop in on defending with the 2-3 scouts. What would the outcome be? I don't understand your used to part. We roamed and havoc'd before and still do. There is still places it for it. This is about the fact that numbers always defined it and still do. Armor sets aren't even the issue. Its that just numbers matter. And if we are that far along in the balancing I would question is the time better spent addressing the numbers game more than the skills balance. We have glaring issues of numbers, do we have glaring issues with builds? Where is the issue where one build dominates all others? Numbers as always only ever defined the masses.So 49 can never ever beat 50? Hm maybe that's why commanders always whine when the squad isnt full.I think you missed my point. I invite you to take another look and add a lot of sarcasm.

These kind of posts are just so ignorant.At launch and for a large span of the game's life, downstate worked fine. It wasn't until the insta rezz builds came to prominence that we started getting these polls.What does that tell you? That the game has always favored zergs and its been wrong since launch. Again, not true. Roamers such as myself have always been able to fill in a niche role, roaming in groups of 5+ is another new trend... obviously promoted by recent balance patches. So NO, Zerging was definitely not ALWAYS the way. We used to havoc and party roam, the difference being everyone and their mother knew what size party does what, at their respective timezone.Nowadays you have people rolling with 10 people going for SMC. Sorry guys, the 12 guys randomly capping a vista for their exploration crusade will hop in on defending with the 2-3 scouts. What would the outcome be? I don't understand your used to part. We roamed and havoc'd before and still do. There is still places it for it. This is about the fact that numbers always defined it and still do. Armor sets aren't even the issue. Its that just numbers matter. And if we are that far along in the balancing I would question is the time better spent addressing the numbers game more than the skills balance. We have glaring issues of numbers, do we have glaring issues with builds? Where is the issue where one build dominates all others?Numbers as always only ever defined the masses.

I am keeping it kind of one way or another since its a poll and I was curious if people still believe we have a lot of glaring balance issues or if, after just coming out of a NDS week its more mechanics that people could see adjusting. I don't think you have seen me say roaming or havocing was not viable. Personally, I didn't think we needed the big nerf patch. I think that was more a glass vs glass issue but your mileage will vary. I also think the nerf patch was preping for the next round of elites. I am not sure the NDS changed the dynamic of a 5v10 as much but you could see more differences in the 5 v 30/40/50. Now some people encountered more run away during the event, but what I was seeing was more, go for it! while the mechanic was changed. So which encourages more fights? If there is nothing to gain (fun/loot/reduced numbers/rewards) for just dropping a target, does that encourage more players to try and take on more or does it just discourage people from doing so? Its also more I have played WvW for 5-6 years now and after coming from another game that I 'wvwed' in for 5+years there I have something to compare and contrast to. I roam, I havoc, will warband, and I will zerg surf at times to get a mix. To me it seems that there is an imbalance in the numbers game here. In other games smaller forces had more options to slow or turn the fight. You will have builds that counter other builds, you will have groups that run as tight teams that will out perform larger groups. There is no balancing against organised versus pug. But in general when you remove armor, builds, people on comms or not, the numbers game does it if downed are not converted to defeated and then at times even if you do get the conversion it won't matter if the larger side can just power rez their numbers back into play. I am not saying I favor removal, but the mechanics could use some changes. I am not saying balancing is done or if we are just tuning, but if the idea was to tone down and balance back up, if that was still the plan than why are we still cutting. If that's the case we aren't even at the time to up the under-performers than let's spend some time on the downstate balance. Some of the class balance issues might be addressed when downstate is adjusted without needing other changes. Take latency, when the NDS caused the fights to spread latency in fights was much better, so is that a map population issue or the fact of boon ball meta? Sometimes the balancing is done when its really some other issue than the one that's addressed. So, drop in a vote for curiosities sake. Ok. I respect that.

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These kind of posts are just so ignorant.At launch and for a large span of the game's life, downstate worked fine. It wasn't until the insta rezz builds came to prominence that we started getting these polls.What does that tell you? That the game has always favored zergs and its been wrong since launch. Again, not true. Roamers such as myself have always been able to fill in a niche role, roaming in groups of 5+ is another new trend... obviously promoted by recent balance patches. So NO, Zerging was definitely not ALWAYS the way. We used to havoc and party roam, the difference being everyone and their mother knew what size party does what, at their respective timezone.Nowadays you have people rolling with 10 people going for SMC. Sorry guys, the 12 guys randomly capping a vista for their exploration crusade will hop in on defending with the 2-3 scouts. What would the outcome be? I don't understand your used to part. We roamed and havoc'd before and still do. There is still places it for it. This is about the fact that numbers always defined it and still do. Armor sets aren't even the issue. Its that just numbers matter. And if we are that far along in the balancing I would question is the time better spent addressing the numbers game more than the skills balance. We have glaring issues of numbers, do we have glaring issues with builds? Where is the issue where one build dominates all others?We've never roamed together, That's my premise. If you roamed with me and my guildies, you'd know the picture is not nearly as black and white as you paint it. It's really more of fifty shades of debauchery.With that being said, you sound like someone that, just never had a proper team to back him up. That's really not on anyone but yourself. This is not a solo game, WvW much less so. Get a teammate.

Personally I think the boon+heal sustain is way more egregious than downed state. If you enter a 3v4 fight it's not downed state that's gonna beat you when they outnumber you, it's their extra minstrel firebrand or minstrel scrapper. If you call this "normal" skills, well then normal it is. Removing/revamping minstrels would almost immediately fix this issue. Firebrand and scrapper aren't an issue in SPvP because minstrels amulet doesn't exist. The issue is the gear, not the classes or skills, so a balance patch literally can't fix this issue.Just offer a free all stat selection on any minstrel gear after doing so.The game was in a far better state when we didn't have clearly defined healer builds. I mean Cleric was about as healery as you could get.

These kind of posts are just so ignorant.At launch and for a large span of the game's life, downstate worked fine. It wasn't until the insta rezz builds came to prominence that we started getting these polls.What does that tell you? That the game has always favored zergs and its been wrong since launch. Again, not true. Roamers such as myself have always been able to fill in a niche role, roaming in groups of 5+ is another new trend... obviously promoted by recent balance patches. So NO, Zerging was definitely not ALWAYS the way. We used to havoc and party roam, the difference being everyone and their mother knew what size party does what, at their respective timezone.Nowadays you have people rolling with 10 people going for SMC. Sorry guys, the 12 guys randomly capping a vista for their exploration crusade will hop in on defending with the 2-3 scouts. What would the outcome be?

Staff 3 as it is right now, is arguably the WORST Phant skill in the game. It's only purpose is to generate a clone on delay. Biased much CMC? Oh it's 100% the worst phantasm. But it actually might be the single worst weapon skill across literally all the professions. No damage, no survivability, barely any utility, its basically JUST a clone generator and it takes like 7 seconds to get that clone. It does nothing. It's very weird. Holosmith: it only does everything. Mesmer: It only does nothing.We should make this our 2020 Slogan :D Did I just /thread this on accident? :lol:

These kind of posts are just so ignorant.At launch and for a large span of the game's life, downstate worked fine. It wasn't until the insta rezz builds came to prominence that we started getting these polls.What does that tell you?

I do a 1v3+ and I lose.That makes me Angry, I then proceed to make a Nerf thread on Forum.I get hate from people I don't know, telling me this is how I should play instead.I get angrier!I report everyone that disagrees with my argument.ANet deletes those comments.'I'm happy in my ignorance again.

Staff 3 as it is right now, is arguably the WORST Phant skill in the game. It's only purpose is to generate a clone on delay. Biased much CMC?

Oh don't worry, trident is probably my favourite weapon in the game so not asking for anything! :D Trident ambush is like sword ambush, but better - thankfully aside from wvw underwater, nobody had to suffer it elsewhere - and the mirage nerfs have kind of brought that in line anyway. As for that situation - sure it's not common but it was insanely strong such that I would go out of my way to lure fights underwater, of which I recall a fair number of ridiculous wins that would have been impossible on land.I can verify those as QFT!I'm pretty sure we did a 2v5 underwater, starting from way behind. Ruin plays always offer the best fights.

I don't know I think I'd argue it's hard, not cursed. Seems like they could reduce evade frames per dodge (so like dodges only last 1/2 second instead of 3/4) to ensure that the promise of a new mechanic still meshes with the promise of a well-balanced competitive game-play mode. The mirage cloak mechanic itself isn't crazy: ambush skills are good but not wild (certainly no more egregious than core thief stealth attacks), and the only other advantage is ability to dodge without self-interrupting, which gives 3/4 second extra time that you can do skills while evading. Sure it was a bit much, and they got the solution half right: decrease evade uptime. It was just overdone by using the endurance mechanic instead of the harder approach of changing evade uptime per unit endurance. Dropping the evade frame on MC to 1/2s would make it effectively useless, when you factor in average server latency. MC used to be 1s originally. It started out as 1 second because Mirage loses its ability to move away from danger when it dodges due to MC mechanic. In other words, MC has a build in trade off in which using MC as a replacement for dodge reduces mobility in the sense that normal dodge has a distance component (the roll distance) which in addition to providing 3/4 evade normal dodge also has the advantage of providing mobility (movement) away from compat range, AE ground rings, etc. However, MC is stuck in one place. It used to get super speed too to compensate for its lack of directional movement. People felt the longer evade frame was unfair so it was lowered to 3/4 (same as dodge) yet MC still lacks the movement component and also no longer gives super speed. In other words this would be really really pointless and would just make MC totally useless. 1/2 sec evade for athe dodge skill just to get 2 dodges back is stupid. MC is the only thing that makes Mirage not be core. It needs to be compelling. It should give 3/4 and get super speed back, If you want to suggest a fix for Mirage its not that. I think dropping MC for normal dodge with extra endurance regen like DD gets would make more sense at least. the problem would be then no ambush skills and therefore, again no Mirage class. Mirage was fine before the Feb 25th 2 dodge change it was NOT overperforming in pvp/wvw anymore anyway. This entire situation in insane. Anet devs are delusional.Thanks for expanding upon the subject, I guess? :lol:

Goooooold!!!

Yes Tyc smash little pink men. Go rampage throw big rock at tiny pink man for big hurt, hurr hurr. 190 IQ Warrior mains unite Need to remind myself, to send you some gold for this. :lol

I don't know I think I'd argue it's hard, not cursed. Seems like they could reduce evade frames per dodge (so like dodges only last 1/2 second instead of 3/4) to ensure that the promise of a new mechanic still meshes with the promise of a well-balanced competitive game-play mode. The mirage cloak mechanic itself isn't crazy: ambush skills are good but not wild (certainly no more egregious than core thief stealth attacks), and the only other advantage is ability to dodge without self-interrupting, which gives 3/4 second extra time that you can do skills while evading. Sure it was a bit much, and they got the solution half right: decrease evade uptime. It was just overdone by using the endurance mechanic instead of the harder approach of changing evade uptime per unit endurance. Dropping the evade frame on MC to 1/2s would make it effectively useless, when you factor in average server latency.

Trash!Hey look it's my old pal Alt F4. Welcome back, haven't seen you in a while.

Mesmer in general should have its damage output reduced for all the utility and mobility it has. 7/7 traitline, all utilities syndrome ?Mean when 75% class are more mobile, has more sustain and do good damage, and it's a reality, kitten did you even wrote.Can you detail "all" mobility and utility you talk about please. YOU HAVE BLINK AND CAN MIMIC PORTAL NO ONE ELSE CAN COMPETE WITH THAT Wait, wait, wait... and mind you i haven't really tried the combo, myself. Doesn't "Echo" only last 10 secs? so you effectively have 10 secs from the time you pop the portal, use it then get it refreshed? Also doesn't the portal stay open for 10 secs. How does the interaction work, I'm genuinely curious now?I can't see for myself as my current hardware doesn't allow me to play. It's weird. It works like normal when casting the first part of the portal skill if I recall right. @Leonidrex.5649 said: Mesmer in general should have its damage output reduced for all the utility and mobility it has. 7/7 traitline, all utilities syndrome ?Mean when 75% class are more mobile, has more sustain and do good damage, and it's a reality, kitten did you even wrote.Can you detail "all" mobility and utility you talk about please. YOU HAVE BLINK AND CAN MIMIC PORTAL NO ONE ELSE CAN COMPETE WITH THAT Wait, wait, wait... and mind you i haven't really tried the combo, myself. Doesn't "Echo" only last 10 secs? so you effectively have 10 secs from the time you pop the portal, use it then get it refreshed? Also doesn't the portal stay open for 10 secs. How does the interaction work, I'm genuinely curious now?I can't see for myself as my current hardware doesn't allow me to play. you place portal entrance, RIGHT before placing the exit you use mimic, that way you get portal AND its cooldown is reset. you need to mimic the second cast of portal not the first so its easy to do. Running portal + mimic is a meme but its how it works.That just about blew my mind. Never in a thousand years would I have thought it works like that. Now I'm wondering how it's coded on their end and what other tricks can be used with it. Thanks for the clarification gents. Mesmer in general should have its damage output reduced for all the utility and mobility it has. 7/7 traitline, all utilities syndrome ?Mean when 75% class are more mobile, has more sustain and do good damage, and it's a reality, kitten did you even wrote.Can you detail "all" mobility and utility you talk about please. That classic mesmer bias showing. Mobility contains in-combat one as well. You know what utility means, I shouldn't have to explain it to you. Yeah so can you list what you yave in mind.You know real data, not jut another mesmer hater random whine.Because as far as I know the only things better than other is vertical staff 2 and jaunt. Which don't make you win a cap game, don't work on every map and which didn't work against 6/9 classes.And staff already did no damage.So I'm pretty curioys about which mobility justify no damage. Probably the same one mesmer mains use to justify their thief nerf requests. "Jaunt" has 3 charges. and they can used offensively as well. It's like a deadeye saying they only got access to Shadow Meld for stealth. The amount of overall jail-free cards is quite astounding. Same issue as with holo and, to an extent, herald. Swiftness matters little if you're dead from stealth.I always love it when a random shows up with copy pasted data from the wiki, without even bothering to check, how skills work in competitive modes, screaming bloody murder. Makes me giggle everytime, thank you kind sir.

Mesmer in general should have its damage output reduced for all the utility and mobility it has. 7/7 traitline, all utilities syndrome ?Mean when 75% class are more mobile, has more sustain and do good damage, and it's a reality, kitten did you even wrote.Can you detail "all" mobility and utility you talk about please. YOU HAVE BLINK AND CAN MIMIC PORTAL NO ONE ELSE CAN COMPETE WITH THATWait, wait, wait... and mind you i haven't really tried the combo, myself. Doesn't "Echo" only last 10 secs? so you effectively have 10 secs from the time you pop the portal, use it then get it refreshed? Also doesn't the portal stay open for 10 secs. How does the interaction work, I'm genuinely curious now?I can't see for myself as my current hardware doesn't allow me to play.

kitten you are a bit too late. i already send it to cmc. i would been happy when a native speaker would read it and gave me the ways to turn it into a better english.:disappointed: im not sure what you mean with concept D is opposed to concept A? all concepts are more or less different ways to reach the same goal: replace the one dodge nerf with other nerfs without increasing the overall power lvl of mirage (just deleting the negative and unintended side effects from the one dodge nerf) while also bring mirage more in line to core by taking away some core power (either by stat decrease from concept C, by reducing clone cap in concept D, or by creating higher decision costs in dodge management with ambush rework in concept A). Some even can be combined like A and C or B and C to give mirage specific ambush gameplay more value to rebuff core skills (shatters and weaponsskills) near to core lvl in terms of dmg. the problem with endurance reggen gain increase into a one dodge bar is, that you make it more spammy, higher pressure to dodge on cd, what will dumb it down more and more. just as adding dmg to ambushes to compensate the lower offensive power from ambushes with only one dodge, while keeping the the current ambush design on condi weapons the same, will also not solve the problem but will maybe increase the problem even over the previous lvl with 2 dodges. the main problem with the one dodge change is, that it limits ambush gameplay, limits offensive dodges to time ambushes well for their own purpose. and that contradiction for the mirage mechanic cannot be solved or covered by simple number changes or simple addition of endurance reggen or dmg to the one dodge mirage. it will make stuff just worse. the one dodge nerf is lit a one-way road into a dumb down spiral. btw @all cmc answered that he needs at least until the weekend to find the time to read it and then give some feedback to the document, bc it is a lot to deal with. ofc he also mentioned that functional changes need to go through the skill team so he cannot decide by his own (i told him we know this ;) ). but he already appreciate the time and effort we as community put into this. Ok I see the point against endurance gain mechanic over 2nd Endurance bar. I agree. Still Concept D is much easier to implement from a developer standpoint than, really either of the other ones. I'm not saying it's the one that should be picked, just that it's easier for ANET. And you know how they feel about easy.

@"Jazz.4639" I apologize for barging in unannounced, and Hi-jacking the thread for a sec, without actually commenting on the subject. I wanted to give myself time to read the document and really understand the ideas being suggested. First and foremost, you need to spell proof and grammar check this, there's a wide variety of changes, that can be made to make the overall message more cohesive.Now for the big point:It's much easier to implement Concept D as opposed to Concept A. If you're a game developer with X amount of time and workforce to dedicate to every single project and still have a playable product, factors like that really start to matter. See where I'm going?Also I firmly believe the Shatterplay should've been a no-no for Mirage, to allow it into a more sustain damage role.I didn't see the Concept listed but, realistically you can introduce a endurance gain mechanic to Mirage specific skills, kinda like staff trait for DrD or the corresponding school stuff (I haven't played thief in a while). So with 1 dodge you have the option to quickly recover for a second one via mechanic. Everyone's favorite Arlette.P.S. Gonna Edit as I go, you know it!

Regardless of the outcome, that's a hell of a lot of work - good effort. As with others I'm not having any expectations - the track record doesn't inspire much confidence. But who knows. expect the worst and you will never be disappointed Isn't that the Mesmer slogan since 2012? Regardless of the outcome, that's a hell of a lot of work - good effort. As with others I'm not having any expectations - the track record doesn't inspire much confidence. But who knows. expect the worst and you will never be disappointed Until someone finds a way to perform below what you believed to be the worst possible...Failure of imagination, never underestimate the power or stupidity.

Going to disagree still. I'd actually say power and condi have the opposite problems.... [cut to reduce quote size] ... Excellent breakdown and analysis. :+1: Noob Mesmer, BAN, BAN! To be edited as I'm on a roll. P.S. Ignore the incoherent gibberish, I've had a few. I'd actually argue the opposite. Right now condi rev, condi weaver, condi guardian are based on lots of pulses of smaller damage while Condi mesmer is built around really two primary damage sources, Cry of Frustration and whichever Phantasm you're using. The skills between these two bursts are ridiculously miniscule. I agree for PvP, disagree for WvW. Cuz Viper/TB. I am merely pointing out what the kit is designed for, whether it actually does what it's supposed to, that's a different story. The problem since PoF release was Mirage was supposed to be the sustain attrition type bruiser for Mesmer, so the expected downgrade should've been limiting shatter burst, be it f1 or f2 condi bomb. But they did neither, so the spec was so front loaded having no burst or sustain damage drawback that it was a universal jack of all trades and God of Creation. But ANet took the easy way out sticking with the old mentality of shatter oriented play over sustained damage play. So they nerfed the weapon kits instead of the shatter kit. And then they nerfed the shatter kit too anyway. :lol:

@"Edge.8724"glad to hear thatbut thers too much in that rune right now, i intentionaly made that rune bit stronger, to"balancing it" or change design with help of other ppl leaving a comment you geting 10% hp, condi reduction, and immunity from condi in one rune, that bit too much So as community what you think witch choise is better?@KrHome.1920@ShadowCatz.8437@RedShark.9548@juno.1840@Virdo.1540@MidJuly.1839 Remove 10% hp BUT 2s retaliation+2s superspeed stay Remove 2s retaliation+2s superspeed, BUT +10% hp stay Or both stay, but nerf retaliation and superspeed to 1s? You're not gonna get 2 supercharged procs on one rune and have it available on almost every Heal CD in the game.The most you can hope for is one or the other and it will still likely be at 2 secs. And if it's the Resistance staying then you can bet the %set bonuses are not going to be -condi duration. Unless you go with Proc on Elite on say 60/90 secs CD, then maybe, just maybe.

Going to disagree still. I'd actually say power and condi have the opposite problems.... [cut to reduce quote size] ... Excellent breakdown and analysis. :+1: Noob Mesmer, BAN, BAN! To be edited as I'm on a roll. P.S. Ignore the incoherent gibberish, I've had a few. Haha, oops - totally unintentional, I liked mortrialus' breakdown there, didn't even realise I was quoting a disagreement! xD Though to see your point - yes there are multiple sources and factors for damage, nevermind practical situations so it's not easy to quantify.Hah, you're fine, I was just hollering at you. And I don't think it was a disagreement, just difference of opinion.