TheGrimm.5624

DB, its been fun, good hunting on your new link! DH let's see what mayhem we can do again. 😉

I am saying I think larger rings make for more fights. I say this from a defense and offensive view point. But it is what it is so we will need to change tactics and see if changes can create different types of fights. Still a new change and a lot of things to try and new concepts to be applied.

Using terrain is an abuse? You mean line of sight. Aka making someone look behind the house was that big of an ask?

lol, I know you know. I should had added that caveat. 🙂 This was for others and to provide context. You know I need to ramble else I end up talking to that shinny ring again.

I disagree since this was one of my concerns when they released events and said the attack events are later. I was worried that they wouldn't figure them out and it would lead to defense nerfs, and here we are with nerfs to defense.

Abuse? Please explain what you were seeing. Numbers on both sides and such. What was the context?

lol, might be. Could be a tag issue. Been going some old school. Been pugmanding some and trying to get them to practice old school tactics. After tourneys tactics have been quite a bit lack. Roamers are never bored, agree. Havocs should already be ready to split and regroup, else they have also grown slack. Been trying to teach more pugs the same tactics. We all need more practice to get ready if they bring back tournaments. 🙂 lol. Maybe we need to be linked more my friend.

Add to that player mentality maybe. Maybe we are too far out from the tournament days. Never stopped playing the long siege game and maybe too many players never did play it. Take for example that a lot of Havocs and Roamers didn't hesitate to attack a T3 while the previous buffs were in place while larger groups did. The question is why? Did they move too much in a direct line? Did they allow enough notice and time to get defenders in place? Were they not employing or have Havocs and Roamers that pre-weakened targets and blinded advancing movements? Were the attackers really not up for the take? Ironically I think the game balance and mechanic with PPK and PPT worked with the previous balance since to be able to hold defenders had to pay in PPK to do that as the walls fell and supply ran out. Are attackers losing out on PPK points they gained before? Weekly win is only a mental win now, what happens when if it's not. Will we see more back and fourth on PPK and PPT as we did in the past? Change is still new and haven't seen any 3 hours defenses yet so is that due to not having one or due to changes, not sure yet. Seeing a lot of quicker takes and more paper during prime hours. Checking out of hours more paper. But is that changes or linking? That's hard to tell. Will this make attackers more lazy and sloppy since they had to work for it some before and now they don't so will we see another round of callouts for more siege nerfs as more siege goes up. Siege is a double sided sword as well. More siege needed to hold a thing means less people on a defending tag to try and push them out. So we do we end up with more people trying to be on walls instead of down fighting since random defenders showing up to try and hold will be less organized and therefore want to be at more distance. I think the nerfs to the stats and ring size decreases fights which is ironic since they said prior they wanted more fights at objectives. Should the rings have remained or been made bigger? I also have to ask, where is the failed attack event? Is part of these changes due to that part not being released? Again part of it might be players not considering actions. Any attack that breaches wall(s) cost the defenders supply and time or they leave that spot weak. That's a win for any attacker. Its why you hit and move and if you don't take you still gain advantage since now you are tying up defending resources and burning supply they can't grab to use against you. Maybe this is an issue of players not teaching players the why of things and seeing the bigger picture. Personally after they talked about the failed attack event that made sense since it could help tags that weren't talking to their players still see their assault had value add in the overall fight even if it wasn't a take. But maybe that is me being a over optimistic. Will cut the rambling there for now since I need to get back to work. Good hunting till the next.

Please, enumerate.

Now to address your current post. What are you using to face it that has issues?

Don't confuse this with general. I agree there a lot of general posters that will do that. And then report. I disagree here and will counter the general peeps since when talking out of date context nercoing threads is bad and wastes time and replies and just creates chaos. Don't do it. Create a new thread if the post is more than a balance patch ago, else you waste time, focus and just create unneeded counter points that are out of date. Doesn't add to value of the conversation, just distracts from it.

Why the thread-necro?

You have to be careful, devs might take the first posts as people still asking for more nerfs.

The goal of outnumbered is to draw players to the map. That's why it had the extra pip gain. It was removed since it was seen as drawing players to afk at spawns as people reported they were seeing. There is always people standing at spawns so I don't know if that was it or not. If it gives increased stats it would trigger the get off map syndrome. The problem remains players that stay really don't get anything for the extra risks since it requires them to succeed while being outnumbered else they lose more than they gain in the end. If they can't separate out targets then they won't get kills. If they do drop a target a larger side might be able to just rez the player back up before they are defeated. That would leave them options of back capping. By just back capping though the outnumbered side just creates more of an environment to trigger a ktrain as the larger side just has more paper targets to circle and strike again. But outnumberd only helps if the outnumbered side resorts to that, or they are left with the option of just letting the map fall which is not unheard of now which is opposite of the point of the outnumbered buff. So how do you draw more players of the outnumbered side to the map? Two ideas, one less extreme than the other. What about while outnumbered a defense event reward or a player kill on the map rewards a buff of +1 pips in the next 5 minute period to the player. Note this is not granted on just objective capture, they already have outnumbered for that. That way the player not only needs to be on the map but if they want the extra bit they need to be trying to stop the larger side. The extreme idea could be applied along with the above... Outnumbered only applies on success and we need something that encourages players to go for it and try and fight back. This would need to be a second level of outnumbered that only applies in the bigger rates of outnumbered. If outnumbered is above a certain threshold, Anet hasn't shared what numbers the outnumbered triggers on, so they would need to define that. 'Last Stand' would be that second level. When a player has 'Last Stand' they and their targets are affected by No Downstate. If they or their targets are downed, they are dead and forced to respawn. This applies to both the player with Last Stand and their opponent to balance it out of being too OP if it just applied to one side. The Last Stand player faces even worse of a fight since they can be focused down by bigger numbers so it still makes them need to play smart if they want to try and score a kill so that's the other balance to preventing it from being OP. Since both are forced to respawn both sides feel the impact of losing a fight. Now we might have a tool that would encourage people in more extreme outnumbered situations to both look to fight and try and hold since they could potentially slow a larger side down. I already fight outnumbered, but if I saw something like that it would even more encourage me to jump to that map since I would know each one I could get I could slow down a larger side. It would follow the same rule as outnumbered as only applied during the next tick but it might draw enough players in that time that Last Stand is no longer applied by the next tick since now the extreme outnumbered map has enough players to just be outnumbered. Combined with the buff above this idea might also encourage less to just vacate the map and if they don't then they get some additional potential for success if Last Stand kicks in with Outnumbered on a map they stayed on. The first option might be enough to counter the current stigma that outnumbered has become. The second idea, some of this could be tested with a No Downstate week to see the impact of the force respawn would have on players before any consideration is made to create Last Stand. Especially since we do still outnumbered times during No Downstate weeks. Its not an easy topic else it wouldn't still pop up overtime here.

No these bait changes are to allow stubborn kittens like me to get peeps killed. Which is going to get me grumpy. Game is a foot. When is the next tourney?