Karagee.6830
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Posts posted by Karagee.6830
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11 hours ago, Raven.1793 said:
Another consideration should be for high-skill ceiling builds such as Weaver and Untamed. Guild Wars 2 is an accessible game that caters to a casual audience so the general populace should have a shot at being viable in pve endgame content without regard for their ability to handle high-apm builds.
For the purpose of this comparison, I'd like to define average-skill as Snowcrows skill floor 1 (power rifle mech, condi virtuoso) which is still harder than real LI builds (4 buttons, sub-20 apm).
First: Among pure dps builds, a high-skill build should not deal more than 20% dps over an equivalent average-skill build.
Second: Even a high-skill boon support build should never outdamage an equivalent average-skill pure dps. This is what got quick cata nerfed.
Third: Pure support builds should not require high-skill simply to be viable. This was the problem with the old-school quick/alac chronojail.
Many support builds can support in full DPS gear but still do not do anywhere near the damage of full DPS. Examples are quick scrapper, staff mirage, and condi alac tempest all of which deal dps in the 25k range while providing 100% boon uptime in full dps gear. It's hard to balance support around gear because you end up with cases like quick cata where people stack the full dps, partial-boon uptime version. The balance team would be better served by creating proper opportunity cost around support skills and traits so that a support build is inherently limited in its maximum dps output.
Define average skill. Most dps builds were in the region of 38k dps before unique buffs were removed. That means that average skill builds according to you should be around or above 31k dps. LI builds should be 30-40% below high intensity builds...on benchmarks. LI builds have typically a much lower gap between golem and actual performance since there is no rotation and there are literally no mistakes that can jeopardise the dps output.
Pure support should also not be fully automated and require no trade-offs when selecting traits and what utility to bring to the table. So we have a problem. The correct way to balance this is to make specs viable at an entry level and being able to carry the party at elite level (for example because an elite player can drop some trait in order to bring extra utility and still perform at good level in other aspects when he shouldn't due to traits). Currently you have 2 specialisations able to carry as support no matter what the skill level of the player is.
And yeah, we agree about build and trait choices having to be relevant, but that is exactly the problem we currently have with Mechanist and Firebrand that are designed NOT to have trade-offs and while I can sort of understand FB (because in its case it's the core elements of the class that lead to this), I cannot understand how Mechanist was allowed to be introduced in its current form (because it's not core Engi leading to this, but only Mechanist design).
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3 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:
Haha, I can see how this is the case 😁
Oh can you? Because we have people in this thread trying to convince how bad Mechanist dps is and how it has been nerfed constantly while warrior is a top-3 dps spec. Btw Mechanist representation is...growing.
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20 hours ago, Yunari.9065 said:
Lol, Brauch has alot of Int. Players from other Timezones because it is the only spanish Server in Guild Wars 2. German Servers hosts only Germans with 1 Timezone. Bad comparison.
Not everyone likes to talk in English, thats why you have national servers. Then there are players who are much older than you and they didn't had english in shool.
All understandable. What is your solution? Have a server like BB for Germans? Be careful what you wish for and just know that you will have to take the bad with the good...also it seems most german servers don't like each other for some reason.
I think language barriers are overblown in WvW. When I put up a tag (typically I take pity on the people playing on my server that are getting farmed as we're outnumbered everywhere, but I run in a small party all the time with the same guys) some people who join, never say anything in chat, never reply to direct questions etc. and they are supposed to speak English. I have no idea why, they never say anything, but still follow and help, as long as it suits them.
You can link most things in group chat and people will understand, even if they don't speak your language. I have joined groups of French players before, where I was the only non-french, and my usual night group joined Virdo's (German, above) during an Alliance beta testing. I don't think we talked much in the hour and a half of roaming we did together, we probably even kept separate groups, and it was still very enjoyable and were able to roam together without problem including switching maps etc.
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5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:
okey so they are a incidcator and nothing more than that.... thanks for clearing it up.
cuz i know a post where you went ham on those numbers and i was just like.... what... statiscally speaking this makes somewhat sense.. but you where throwing around numbers like 32%, 48% 62%... and i was like.... AM I MISSING SOMETHING?
he can only guess based on the numbers... doing exact calculatios is just SO GOOFY.
saying this has more activity than this would make sense... but sainyg this has 40% more players.... is just vague at best.
ps: no hate! i was just curious if i am missing something here 😄 thanks for clarifying.
It is a pretty good indicator. And if you go back and look at scoring and K+D you will understand that lopsided K+D never have a close score at the end of the week (even when the D side of the equation is driving the participation of a particular server).
It is hard to extrapolate between different tiers because if my enemies stop playing the overall match K+D will deflate. So you also need to check different weeks and matchups to draw some intelligent conclusion, but in T1 and T5 you also have 2 teams that do not change from one week to the next which helps comparing. For example top K+D this week is the double bandwagon: GH+WSR with 89k while Gandara+FR is second at around 80k, but it's hard to tell whether that gap is real or whether it was the effect of GH having more sizeable opponents.
Generally speaking you see more activity the closer you get to T1 especially after a few weeks, which is understandable.
Checking people coming to a map does not give you an indication of participation anyway. I can go to green border, take a camp, sentry and move to blue border within one tick. How are you going to count me once? It's just not possible. Not to mention when I port to grab 25 supplies because it's faster than travelling on the map I'm on.
It would be great if Anet could give us a visual indication of how full a map is with people from our team tbh. Even for people who are outnumbered it makes sense to stick together and that would help as not everyone is active and responsive pn team chat.
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2 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:
i fail to see the problem here really...
are we speaking about pvp? about wvw?
pvp.. yeah someone just afking cuz he knows he can then play on another account... is annoying.
but for WvW this doenst matter at all. 1 people more or less is pretty much irrelevant. If they dont want to play against your server... they wont. regardless of them ahving another account on another server. They would simply quit WvW for the week and do something diffrent.
it changes nothing. if they dont want to play... they wont.
people abusing their second account to pull tactics and sabotage.. THIS! THIS IS A TOPIC.
but someone enjoying their time elsewhere... is not a problem really. If there would be masses doing it... okey but thats not happening all that much. i think...
1 people? What server do you play on? There are hundreds of active players that do this.
At the very least these players desert a server with no link for 2 months, but more often they affect the population of their 'main' server as convenient and in an semi-organised way when needed (i.e. before relinks) without having to stop playing.
And yeah changing tactics, moving claims (it's possible), spying (don't even need to log on alts to do this tbh) is all trivial. I'm with Mabi here that population manipulation is a much bigger issue and we both play, me and him, on servers that often draw the short straw and spend 2 months unlinked, while really not seeing in our day to day wvw the population imbalances that Anet's system so evidently implies.
It's a similar thing to transfers without the gem payment if you will.
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On 8/4/2022 at 8:49 PM, ThunderX.6591 said:
If you talk about "standard" class, in literally any games out in the wild, Warrior is in the top 3 best dps........ in that spot, here, we have Bladesworn......... how good is isn't important, the important part is that a "warrior" type of class is in the top 3 spot. (the fact that the "normal warrior" is literally at the low end of the dps ranking is considered "collateral damage", totally normal, same as a Tempest healer that is the TOP of all healer spec is literally never used in high end game contents).
What can we do? Nothing until we have peole who ask random nerf to classes who are " literally ok" instead of asking for buffs to the rest of the "not so ok" classes we have in the game.......... expecially after a patch (28/06) that with what changed in the game, literally take flat 4k loss dps to all classes in the game.
Understand that you need to ask BUFFS for the "not so good classes" if you want them to be better, nerfs never improve something (the word literally mean "nerf as reduce it").
This is a borderline ignorant post. Benchmarks need to be understood before we can have a meaningful conversation (and for bsw 39k benchmark a lot should be said about the large overkill damage, which is the only reason that benchmark is 39k and not 37k even in the golem set conditions). The relationship between benchmarks and performance in group content also needs to be understood before we can have a meaningful conversation (and bladesworn is also a prime discussion candidate in this respect).
Just looking at benchmarks in a silly way and out of context would have also told you Ele as a class has been fine for years when it had almost 0 representation. And note that this is not a problem of player skill, it is a problem of class design. When you are ready to accept why high golem benchmarks can be misleading, do not translate into similar damage in raid situations more for some builds than others and, most importantly, don't translate in class representation, then and only then we will have that discussion.
Perhaps 99.9% of people playing this game, me included, are idiots and warrior and ele should make up 50% of raid parties instead of Mechanist and Firebrand.
28k with 0 apm (which you seem to have decided to ignore altogether) is not ok. It. Is. BUSTED. It's an aberration that should have never been allowed to be. And it was 32k a little more than a month ago. And yes Mech and FB are broken classes that must be brought to the level of all other specialisations, because unlike EVERY other specialisation they both get way too much stuff having to give up NOTHING. If you dwarfed their damage or healing by 20%-25% they will still be superior due to the utility they provide with no drawback (whereas the rest of the field need to decide and pick specific traits which are typically mutually exclusive).
Edit: I have been a bit too hyperbolic there. Let's say 10%-15%.
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4 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:
ANet or any other company for that matter has no (economical) reason to systematically bully mains of specific classes.
Don't confuse management with the actual devs coding the changes like solar. He was aware his changes were bad and would have generated enough salt in the playerbase to fill an ocean. He said it himself.
Besides, other than culpability there is negligence and incompetence and there's no doubt grouch, cmc and even solar fall more into these categories than doing a bad job on purpose...
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1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:
That's the real issue, and it's kind of scary that we are heading in that direction full force.
As busted as FB was/is, at least it required some game knowledge/skill - or at least heavily scaled with it, in terms of the huge difference it made in pressing Solace for Aegis/Styg for Stab or the Tomes off-cooldown, and timing them precisely for specific attacks, be it big hits or hits/phases with CC.
The direction of the new specs, be it permanent Stab stack on Mech to press off CD, or mindlessly spam all Heal and Utility Cooldowns to maintain boons/DPS for example on Harbinger with Elixirs or Specter with Wells etc. will eventually lead to a much worse place still - especially if they eventually are brought up to parity.
If Heal and Utility skills are becoming just more weapon skills rather than situational, skill and game/encounter knowledge based, Utility, and everything is used off-cooldown anyway - we really aren't far off from might as well just automate it.
I feel like all the old specs, synergies and rotations revolving around fun and well flowing skill combos and burst windows are slowly dying in each balance patch to be replaced with nothing but busy work of just mindlessly spamming everything off CD or auto attacking.
It's such a shame to see given that GW2's skill based combat system has always been it's biggest strength by far.
This is all very well said. And if they don't realise that things like timed aegis, timed stab or reflects, timed cc, using burst when appropriate etc are bread and butter then there is only one direction this game is going to go.
Boons are the same btw. The current trade-off for 100% alac and quickness is just risible for specs like HAM and QFB. It requires no strategy or workaround, just get the spoon fed solution Anet is oppressively pushing on everybody.
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1 hour ago, ThunderX.6591 said:
You just asked to make the game worse for all players......... nice job, the best outcome possible for you is to get the game worse for all instead of try to better it for the other classes who aren't so good.
Don't know, but maybe, asking to buffs some other classes to better the game isn't something nicer and helpfull for all the community instead of asking nerf because you don't like how people play those 2 classes?
False. What I'm asking is exactly the definition of making the game better for everyone...bar mech and fb stans. So yeah, the game will be worse...FOR YOU, who like the current lopsided imbalance, the worst ever seen in pve in the history of gw2.
Sure, buff every other quickness and alac support in the game to bring it above the current level of Mech and FB and then buff all autoattack builds to do 25k afk dps possibly all ranged because why not. I'll still be waiting when gw3 is going for the first expansion.
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38 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:
I proved the actual damage of the Mecha with rifle, explained the up and down, the various nerf Mecha get from patch 28/06 on and as a result, i get people who post old random number from old not updated videos and people who use Mecha in raid commenting how stupid is the fight, using it......... don't know, use something else if you hate mecha so much, leave it to the rest of the people who bought the game giving Anet money for wantiong to play Mecha.......
Considering the data posted, Mecha was literally the motor behind the double in people and selling of EOD expansion, so........ be happy you have more people in the game for years to come.
Nah just nerf mech both dps and especially alac mech into the ground and far below other alac providers and dps builds that require to press buttons. Then nerf hfb and qfb far below other quickness providers.
Mission accomplished: Anet for once would have produced a patch with some semblance of balance. None of the other specs are so mindbogglingly op or braindead, so this would be addition by subtraction on a massive scale.
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40 minutes ago, Svarty.8019 said:
Funny really, you did that whole post and then said what my reply was going to be at the end.
I'm being realistic here. As other have said, it beggars belief they never changed this madness for so many years.
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3 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:
In broad strokes, I think most players are convinced it works like this:
You have main (alive) and link (dead) servers. These days there are few actual main servers lefts, so servers that should be links become mains because the system is relative. Those may look like loaded words, but it is meant to prove a point and not just be hyperbole: Servers tend to be alive as servers when they actively try to build their server communities and there are very few such servers left. Most servers do not build server communities, they either just go through the motions or have built other forms of community. In either case the server is dead as a server, but a community may still be built on in other ways.
These behave in different ways around a relink. Many main servers will begin to manipulate their numbers in the weeks leading up to the relink because they compete amongst themselves about who is going to draw the short straw of being locked and unlinked. It is usually better to tank for a few weeks than pulling the short straw for 8 weeks straight. The link servers (including those who become main servers but are populated to be links) tend to transfer after the relink is done. So the numbers the system sees before relink and the actual numbers after the relink are completely different. Both these things contribute to the system holding up worse than it could, but the system has also been broken for 10 years, has a fix meant to hold it in place for a year or two running for 6 years and we players just keep adapting and waiting for the problem to be solved.
So, in short, the ~3-5 main-server communities manipulate numbers to avoid being unlinked and the link-server communities simply transfer if they get a poor link. That's how we players have adapted to the state of development.
You know what creates a community (probably the only one left of a pretty good size)? The fact that you get screwed over and over and over by Anet with no link and that triggers a mentality of us v everybody. The only thing we ask is: if you give us no link for 8 months (8 weeks pffft), at least have the decency of not locking us thoughout that period. There are 2 quick fixes for this: remove 3 or 4 servers (depending on whether you want BB to be alone) or make 3 servers all like BB (i.e. always unlinked but also always open).
Transfers should be managed very differently of course and this can be done irrespective of the overarching game mode structure. When I saw they are thinking about transfers in alliances I genuinely wanted to throw up. They never learn...
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1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:
You entirely managed to miss the point. Wow. Impressive, actually.
Don't worry: that's normal for dawdler, but it may yet get much worse from here.
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22 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:
Tested........ a classic scam like with the amazing 30k dps Mecha rifle with 11111 or the 25k rifle 11111 without boons on you and no malus condis on the golem, the 28k dps is the usual SCAM number (and i lost 30 minutes and changing equipment for nothing) that pop around.
With the skill on Autopet on, with the equip i used for the other tests, as i thought, you do like 23k.
So with the skill in auto, you do around 2k extra dps if you get all the things right, but normally, the dps was more 1.5k extra (always under 23k) in many rounds, so i think it depend on the reset of Orbital Strike between the round as a counter.
No 28k at all, a simple 1.5k extra dps as a constant with sometimes, spike at 2k if all is good.
And you lose precious CC and in other cases boons casted "smart" for it.
Testing extra time, i noticed that i can increase the burst damage of the first check (200k hp golem) literally by an extra 3k if i set "Orbital strike" to tick from the golem and the char after the start of the combat (literally timing it perfectly from a previous fight ready in the barrel (queue) to be casted), so i think the big number was really up artificially just for doing it (like people did with Bladesworn 55k or higher bench), the classic scam test to get hype on the numbers.
Mech was literally 32k full afk (and 37-38k pressing buttons) after the 28/6 patch. There are videos and logs of this. So if you say they have been nerfed by 2k a couple of times...
Bladesworn's bench is just silly because it takes 5 extra seconds to kill the golem than any other spec doing the same dps and then does 200k overdamage (this is not quite the same as the 4 million damage mark lining up with a burst, this is actually a 5% useless damage, in 95% practical situations). Besides bsw only did over 50k in betas and guess what: bsw was nerfed and mech significantly boosted from beta to Eod.
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16 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:
Don't you think that is exactly what the DEVS want for the game before the Steam launch?
Getting players from that place happy (they are full casual there, the bar for changing game if is "problematic" (game is too hard, difficult to get in end game party and so on) is set mildly low considering thousands of games you can choose on Steam.
For sure there is a plan, or the debut on Steam could literally destroy the game............. and i want to avoid that ending. (Expecially after 10 years)
Yeah the plan is having classes that are staples in every MMO like warrior and mage/elementalist be unusuable while weird classes like the 'engineer' with a large green robot are everywhere.
Great plan. Exceptional even.
Steam will pick up casuals not hardcore raiders coming from other MMOs. Casuals pick classes based on theme and personal preference and typically invest in a single character. So what do you think will happen after several months when the people playing ele, warrior, ranger, thief etc. realise they may need to reroll, start from zero and play a class someone else tells them to, if they want access to more challenging content?
Imbalance and gross imbalance like we are currently seeing (in fact this is the worst it's ever been as the concentration is similar to HoT release, but you now have 27 elite specs compared to 9 back then) is just really bad for new players.
It's simply negligence and incompetence on the dev/balance team's part. You can't say we want people to be accepted in groups with the specs they like and then make most of those specs either bad or garbage. People won't be accepted just because you say and hope so. It's up to Anet to make Mech+FB drop from 4-5 spots in your average raid party through balance changes, words are cheap and useless in this regard. Boosting 25 other specs is also not feasible, at least not in the short term. So just nerf support Mech and FB in intelligent ways to bring them in line with everything else (i.e. force the trade-offs every other spec has).
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12 hours ago, Evenge.4067 said:
An easier fix would be to leave the pricing the same, but do relinks every month instead. That way the flakey bandwagoners would have to pay twice as much to bounce around.
It would also keep the links fresher. 2 months is a long time to suffer with a bad link. 💥
That would also work, but in a system with 5 tiers you may end up with the most overstacked server in T2 on the last week of the period despite destroying the competition every week.
In any case, any idea to suck more money out of bandwagoners who constantly move is a good idea.
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10 hours ago, gitssac.7302 said:
As if Anet would intentionally nerf their income in any way, shape or form. All they care about is the money generated by people moving servers. It's the only reason they haven't completely shut down WvW in the first place. Alliances are the 'Soon™' copium Anet has used since 2018 to keep us invested in spending money for gems to transfer every month or so. They don't care about the WvW population at all, just your wallet. The sooner we realise this the quicker WvW can die and be sold off to some Chinese MMO conglomerate as a separate game (Looking at you TenCent).
I'm not sure that would nerf their income, if done well.
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31 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:
Weird, I dont see objectives left damaged. Under most circumstances squads do quick repairs, destroy enemy siege, and then move on after defending an objeftive. Perhaps I am just lucky in terms of play time.
That's my experience of larger groups too. They will usually repair, look for siege and kill it (if the commander is half decent). I typically look for enemy siege myself before opening a tower/keep and either kill while others open walls or kill it after capping, else I go back for it after taking something nearby if I don't want to miss on the xp.
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14 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:
Yeah I dunno about that 250 either, 234 would the max with boost going by the 290% maximum.
Max is way more than 290%. Without enrichment, guild potion, food, claim bonus, outnumbered bumper etc: the yellow booster/halloween booster is up to 150% (50% base and 0-100% from killstreak), celebration booster is 100% and special week bonuses are 100%. That's 350% from just 2 boosters during special weeks. In non bonus weeks I think you can also get above 300% but most people will just have just 2 boosters, food, enrichment and guild bonus, so 280% with a 10 killstreak (killstreak can be refreshed by killing anything even random neutral animals).
Even so, a camp is 200 baseline for capping, guards are at least 150 (but sometimes much more) donkeys 0-100. A sentry is 120 and a veteran creature event is 200 baseline as well. So you understand that at 280% if you stay and repair the wall on red/greenlake and miss sentry->camp->harpy thats a 670-770 missed xp (you may make the harpy) which with normal boosters is really 1850-2150 (roughly on top of my head) for a 3 minute work.
You can't beat wxp from capping (either as a roamer or as a ppt train) by killing players or repairing. That just isn't feasible. Maybe as a scourge in an organised blob looking for fights with other large groups, maybe, but I'm very skeptical as the opponents would need to be pretty bad. In bonus weeks capping SM castle will give you more than a rank from guards, lord and capping alone if you pump all xp bonuses.
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13 hours ago, HazyDaisy.4107 said:
If there were a chance at an instant 5 ranks for wall repair, perhaps zergs could be bothered to start doing it again. Anet should hire some of these forum posters for ideas so we too can give instant 5 ranks upon death.
Ah yeah the old jug of wxp random drop...
On Gandara blobs following a tag are much more likely to repair than small groups of defending roamers. Commanders will ask and people will do it. Also if you have tags, odds are there will be scouts with participation holed up in keeps who can top up and do small repairs.
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4 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:
Dear Karagee, you need to see the forest instead of a branch before your eyes.
You do 21k dps using the skill "MODIFIED AMMUNITION" that use all the condis on the Golem, without considering that on a normal champ fight, you will never have all the condis you get on the golem, but less, so, your dps get down too. (and 21k is the ideal dps against an immovable target who don't react)
Second point, your big dps is given from the AARocket "Orbital strike" attack, unfortunatelly, now is slow to activate and need more time, plus, if the boss move, you miss easy the skill (cast time and more).
Third, you need full boons, so you need to be near the group for receive them, not the best for a range class who bet a lot of his utility on be range and running around.
Virtuoso is better on every points (in raid is the dps more choosen atm, Mecha is used, if all good, for Alac, so no rifle, sorry and low dps from the changed gear needed)
I post facts and testing, and i don't bother with some pet autoattack change done for the ranger for skill that need to be casted on determinated timing to be usefull against a boss (the skill give CC, boons and more, i don't think you are in a good state spamming them when you don't need them (and set them on cooldown), don't know, but this is my impression)
Frankly I don't care. Any single person who can't play the game will use autoattack Mech builds. Mech has 24.2% spec representation in raids and since you won't take more than 2 HAM per group, you can do the math yourself. Virtuoso has 11% class representation.
Nobody is debating there are better dps options than Mech, I happily concede there are many. However, in the end nobody cares that more difficult classes do more dps and perform better than braindead superlow APM mech with plenty of utility. As long as the options are close enough, a large portion of players will take the easier way, especially if it also has more utility. And note that these are not generally scrubs that have never set foot in a raid or strike, these are people with kills in the content.
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26 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:
(i like how you were bragging about how you hunted teapot which has nothing to do with this topic or our little derail here....and then you pretend like you were trying to talk about walls all along. )
Well, Teapot works hand in hand with the devs and has a partnership with Anet. We knew who he was, went after him and absolutely nothing strange happened. You can understand the difference between that and the other situation I described, can't you? As I said, I can't spot an Anet employee, so that was all I could offer.
26 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:they should not give participation as peopel were abusing it.
So how do we encourage people to repair instead of rushing to the next available target? Because the latter is the logical choice xp-wise. In fact, I have no shame in saying that when I'm on my own I even move before an objective is fully capped, unless I need supplies or kill the guards and move on immediately since you get credit anyway. This is the most logical way to play if you want to maximise xp while pulling all the boosters. Repairing gives subpar xp, does not extend killstreak and it's simply a waste of time right now.
Before they removed participation from repairing...it was the same in this respect.
August 2 Balance Update Preview
in Professions
Posted · Edited by Karagee.6830
Right, so you seem to be saying you don't care about other Mechanists apologists and their sob stories, as you call them, but you do care about everyone else's. Seems like a nice, fair and non-contradictory place to be in, indeed.
Let's just agree that Mechanist and FB both need to be nerfed in line with every other spec and that AA dps builds need to have a significantly lower output than people pushing buttons and then, when we can compare apples with apples, we will talk about where support builds should be, where pure dps builds should be and how much lower, compared to them, AA builds should be.
But let me just say this: a 20% damage gap between benchmarks for dps builds like untamed or catalyst and AA builds is nowhere near enough. 45% is more like it (so 40k top dps and 22k AA builds). As I said, that gap is much smaller in group play and you certainly don't want a 20% benchmark gap to turn into a 10% or smaller gap in actual gameplay.