TeeracK.3601

They also took that back later on when they realized we weren't going to accept that kitten. I think after Drakkar they proved they are more then willing to greatly shape up the gw1 appearance of things when it comes to the dragons. The head we saw in S3 already looked a lot different from what we saw in GW1. Plus dragons are clearly able to evolve and change shape as they get more magic so it wouldnt even be an issue lore wise. We (being the lore community) actually argued for this point when they tried to go with the "Statue wasn't really Primordus" BS, as well as pointing out that previous statements in Lore and from Anet had already confirmed that the Statue was Primordus. You could probably find the old threads showing this.Things from guild wars 1 doesn't translate over to guild wars 2 100% all the time so I don't doubt that thread exist, but I don't see how it really matters when they change the designs between games all the time. Just compare Zaitain's in game model to his cinematic model is insanely different and thats in the same game.

The Centaurs in the trailer were warmongering and slavering centaurs.We have seen the human slaves in the trailer.If the trailer had referred to peaceful Centaurs, there wouldn't have been slaves. If we got centaurs it would have been both most likely since they were already set up to be an allied faction they probably would have had them as an enemy but with some of them as our allies. We fought evil charr and had charr allies, evil dwarf and had dwarf allies, evil norn and had norn allies, etc.

They also took that back later on when they realized we weren't going to accept that kitten. I think after Drakkar they proved they are more then willing to greatly shake up the gw1 appearance of things when it comes to the dragons. The head we saw in S3 already looked a lot different from what we saw in GW1. Plus dragons are clearly able to evolve and change shape as they get more magic so it wouldnt even be an issue lore wise.

Well that's not exactly correct. A lot of centaur are warmongers but others are more peaceful. The different centaur tribes have very different philosophy and some of the tribes do value peace. We met a friend tribe back in drytop. I wouldn't think centaur changing their attitudes would be any different from the flame legion suddenly being the most noble char legion in IBS.

Considering all the wardens maybe one of them went to cantha to do something in echovale. There was all the staff, axe, and sword masters from HoT and they were meant to be a bigger deal then they were we kept fighting through the expansion. We did a bit but we didnt get much story about them. Only the sword master do they suggest was a sylvari from the pact when you do the event in the top left of VB. Wouldnt shock me if the two missing firstborn could have been the two unnamed ones.

Idk how many of you are monster hunter fans, but in that game one of the elder dragons is Zorah Magdaros and its basically a big giant dragon with a volcano shell on its back. I can't really imagine Primordus flying around and the great destorier had a turtle like body shape as well as a lot of its minions sort of looking shell like forms with how it shapes the stone, so I'm kind of picturing Primordus are a volcano turtle more and more.

I think this theory that a dragon ate Lyssa could also work with the DSD. It could explain why Lyssa gained the domain of water or been more of a foreshadowing thing for this. It would make the Priestess of Lyssa quote make sense. A conflict between Balthazar and the DSD at the Battle Isles would also be a great story beat. Part of why I say this is because the DSD is the most mysterious hidden dragon and looking back at some of it's old concept art it kind of reminds me a bit of Lyssa. there is also the ying yang looking water dragon in the new EoD logo that sort of themes up nice with Lyssa's whole two sided coin kind of thing.

I liked him. I think a lot of people got confused and thought he stole our glory not realizing the two different roles of the commander and trahearne. His whole thing was he was an explorer scholar and well connected even with non playable races. He united the pact and brought everyone together even the commander. the commander was the pact's greats weapon but trahearne was its common link that brought it together so it made sense for them to want him as the leader.

tied around the neck of the deep sea dragon as a trophy.

Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them. I've honestly always thought the early story of the game got ruined by big changes. I think people hated underwater stuff so much they cut whole zones and likely had to change the story so much. I felt like with the pirate them, season 1 starting with the karka, looking at the water map left of LA that was cut, and at least 2 other mate rmaps that got cut. It just seemed to me in its original concept we were going to start with the DSD after Zaitan, but they ended up shuffling dragons around because of backlash about water combat. Even the end of season 1 cinematic with the vines destroying the pact ships seemed like it could have originally been conceptualized to be tentacles coming out of the sea instead of vines out of a forest, but i guess will never know the original plan/vision for the game.

I genuinely feel that there is something up with the timeline with which we have been presented. This forum hasn't spent enough time investigating the Mouvelian Calendar's idiosyncrasies to be able to articulate details about it that are, presently, largely grasped intuitively. Knowledgeable members of the lore community will remember that the Risen Priestess of Lyssa states that her "goddess was mere prey for the dragon". The priestess uses the past tense. She also states that Zaithan "devoured" the gods. So how does that work, given the timeline presented to us? It's tempting, downright easy, to dismiss it all as lies. Those who hear the priestess are divided about her truthfulness. The open-minded are prepared to question whether the priestess is telling the truth. Others are unwilling to even entertain the idea that she might be candid. But what if the priestess is telling the truth From a storytelling perspective, this is the only option presented to us that allows for the development of any further storylines. I'm not saying that I believe Teerack's theory is accurate enough to be reliable. But it's a good attempt. No one has ever really pursued angles like this before, certainly no one that I know of. I feel like the dev's did a great job making it clear that the gods lie. Siren's landing and all the statues of Abaddon in the middle of Orr throw a big wrench in the idea that Abbadon was a forgotten god. I think if the human gods were willing to punish Abbadon and then change the memories of humanity it shows more then anything that the human gods are willing to lie. The fact Dwayna loved a mortal and the fact Balthazar went mad also further shows the how these beings are less then perfect and emotional beings so they are not always benevolent. Even stepping away from the gods looking at the tombs we found about the Murssat i think the dev's like to play around with the idea that the winners write history and we don't really know the full story. If the gods took a big step back when they sense the return of Abbadon because they were scared of making another desolation. It was kind of implied they were still watching over the world until the rising of the dragons by kormir in pof. It wouldn't shock me if at one point the gods decided to give taking care of them a try when they watched the movement of the world and failed making them decided to completely leave the world.

On the one hand I agree, on the other maybe it’s better not to fit her in. After the dragon plot is concluded, her story can lead us into a larger gods storyline with the 4th xpac. Something like: End of Dragons Season 6/Saga 2 in Cantha (so much space to cover in maps and so much going on there it’ll need another season) Then, either another season with lyssa leading into the fourth expansion, or the fourth expansion right from the end of 6 (similar to how 3 led into PoF without having much to do with the plot of PoF before the very end), and wrap it up in a season following the expansion. At least, I’m assuming the first post dragons plot will be about the human gods since they set stuff up a while back, not to mention there’s unused ideas from GW1 That can still happen. I would think if the Dragons were gone Dwayna, Malandru, Kormir, and Grenth would like to return. Half of the remaining gods are human after all.

A a conflict with the gods pre pof with the dragons like this could also maybe explain the weird thing in the movement of the world where they state Lyssa also gains power over water. Maybe in that same fight they also absorbed away Komir's domain of water and that is why all of Jorma's minions just swim through ice and a large part of the far shiver peaks is now water.

It's just a thought I had. Jormag always lies and manipulates people. Jormag said they and Primordus are twin dragons. Baladazar had lyssa's mirror and was kind of crazed with vengeance over killing the dragons. What if what he meant when he said "they've dimmed my light" he was being metaphorical meaning they killed the person he loved Lyssa? :open_mouth: Also in siren's landing I can't help but feel like Jormag is very similar in the IBS to the new scripture of lyssa we got in season 3 right before PoF.

yeah if there was an version of the world map that was updated to Cantha i probably would have included far out places like the battle isles, but I've also wanted all of central tyria to finally be complete. Since the start of IBS I've thought if we did do a DSD expansion the battle islands would be the perfect hub like the way we stage things now in the Eye of the North. A raid location could also be south of dragonstand on the little peninsula to finally finish up the region. I also had to keep in mind the locations needed to make sense for the people of Tryia to be aware of what was going on and care enough to do something about it. If it was all off in the middle of the ocean would anyone know or even care? As of now the races of Tyria doesnt even know of the DSD outside of some private speculation by priory scholars. I was also thinking as part of this storyline as well we could have the Lagos show up in force to help us get their revenge on the DSD. Kind of like how in HoTs we allied with the Itzel , Nuhoch, and Exalted. It be the same sort of thing but way more fleshed out since it be across multiple zones. Was also thinking if the pact fleet is wiped out mostly in episode 5 we'd have to push on land and we could call for aid from elona so we'd get to see the awaken vs the risen in a big scale conflict.

Well no? The way I explained it tengu would fit into the story from the beginning easily if you read it. And that's not really a flaw I think you missed what I was trying to say. Zaitain DID die and release all his magic, BUT his dominion was death. The entire concept for his theme was raising things from the dead, so he did die and loose all his magic, but because we never went into his heart/soul magical center like we did for other dragons we never fully killed him. Just shoot a dragon with a turret a few times is a bigger lore gap for elder dragons then what Im suggesting.

Cut content, by definition, is content that was actually developed, but then removed. Either pre, or post, release. As they admit in their twitch stream, they never actually made the centaur storyline because they considered it too complicated to try to explain why the Centaurs were now your allies in such a short time. It isn't cut content, the content was never developed., or originally planned. It was an idea they had for a possible storyline. This contrasting to something like Malyck in HoT, who was originally designed to be in the expansion, but actually got cut out. I've literally seen people use the term to refer to scrapped content that was only in the planned phase by both fans and devs 100s of times. You're arbitrarily making up a fictional definition of the term to try and make a nonexistent semantical point...

Yeah there is also a lot or lore room here to. We don't even know who the great dwarf is. Since the dwarfs and glint were allies I always assumed the great dwarf was a converted dragon champ like glint but able to make people like the pale tree. The dwarfs could have been made flesh to break Primordus's control so they could build up their wills as mortals and resist his call like the sylvari were able to. Would also explain why the stone summit seem to now be allies to primirdus

why would you be against one of the core guild wars 1 races? Especially when they are a key example of tyrian fantasy(charr, asura, sylvari, etc) where they try to break away from the generic fantasy tropes.

interesting. Another way to look at this information as well though could be that primordus or the people of Cantha killed the DSD and ate his magic and its why he has such a big edge over jormag now when they started as twins.

This was something I did for fun awhile ago when my internet was down and I was trying to entertain myself. End of Dragons is soon, so I figured I might as well post this before it becomes impossible with the stuff that I'm sure will happen soon. :P Hope you enjoy it. New Race TenguTheir city is Sanctum Cay and their starting zone is the D’Alessio Seaboard. You go through a new personal story from 1-15 and then it ends with them telling you you're a super duper cool marry sue, and are being chosen to go beyond the walls and explore and see what its like out there cause maybe they are thinking of rejoining the world soon. Then you go to LA and the fall into the normal story so it still makes sense for you to be the commander. Since we see Tengu out in the world all over the place even out in guild halls and stuff. Guild Hall - The D’Alessio ArenaA new guild hall and its themed around classic LA. It’s a cool little pirate lookin hub rebuilt out of ship wrecks. Living Story Season 6Since underwater stuff isn’t very popular I thought the way to do the deep sea dragon would be to have it as more of a coastal thing with monsters either on the edge of the water or coming up out of the sea. Episode 1 - Everything is great and we’re all happy the elder dragons are finally done. We get a call from Istan asking for aid cause it’s being attacked by sea monsters. Episode 2 - We still don’t know the source of these monsters and we move over to Kourna to continue to try and fight and aid with these monsters. Taimi does some stuff that helps us track their source but we need more time. Episode 3 - We get messages from the Olmakhan asking for help cause there are sea monsters there now. We go there meet some ogres and help the Olmakhan in the north half of their island. We also learn the source of these creatures seems to be moving and is heading north to Orr Episode 4 - We are getting ready for an expedition into Orr but then we get a call from Amnoon asking for help and we expect it to be sea monsters, BUT instead... its the Risen! We rush over and help and are really confused Episode 5 - We rally the pact and push down closer to see what the deal with the risen is. We find fleets of undead seeming to be shipping crates of brand stone from thunderhead peaks and other magical items down into orr. We deal with the forces here but there is heavy losses in some kind of tidal wave or something. Also can meet some drege. Episode 6 - We push into Orr. The part of orr that seems to be the source of these new coordinated risen. This would be a map called Dragon’s Grave or something like that and it would pretty much be a big epic meta map based around the corps of Zaitan. The basic plot here would be that we didn’t fully defeat him and he has been gathering magic in order to resurrect himself since raising the dead is his entire thing. We never got a good send off or meta for Zaitain and this would be it. The surprise story ending here tho is that we weren't the only one moving to kill and stop Zaitan. The Deep Sea Dragon was on his way north to stop Zaitain and consume the rest of his magic. Could also throw in some cool Orr lore here as well. The end result is the Deep Sea Dragon uses us and takes advantage of us putting down Zaitain for good to suck up his magic and become a bigger deal. Guild Wars 2 - Sea Dragon ExpansionAfter the events of the S6-E6 the Sea dragon attacks the coast with a massive tidal wave destroying south sun cove and sending minions to rata sum, the grove, and lion’s arch for a story quest where we push them back. This also forces the Karka and their queen to relocate to a new smaller map on the side of bloodtide coast called South Sun Peninsula.(to relocate the karka farm and world boss.) as well as having the consortiums build a new resort here in the southern island. The Dominion of wind is devastated and the Tengu open their gates asking for aid. The pact pushes into Sorrow’s Chain(the new small island chain zone made up of the shattered land masses that used to be in that location. where half of south sun used to be) with the Lion Guard and some Pirates and ships from the Grove to help push back and stop all the dragon minions. (Also they make the surface of rata sum and the grove explorable with docks and all) Once the situation is sorted with start pushing out to sea zone to zone going after the sea dragon until we got to Dragon’s Vortex where its a big wild water tornado and whirlpool filled zone where its a big meta to fight the sea dragon and harpoon him into place. (i think the corpses/bodies of all elder dragons should have their own map like dragon stand and dragon fall )

Did anyone else notice that the new Dwarf NPC's all have normal flesh and blood looks when you click on them. They have hair, skin, eye, and clothes textures done for them, and then I'm assuming are using the new stone skin infusion to take on the stone skin look. As far as I know all the other stone dwarfs we've met up to now always looked the same in their portraits. It wouldn't make design sense for them to make all those textures just to hide them with the infusion, so I'm thinking this might have been a mistake that is giving away that the Dwarfs may be returning to mortal status after IBS.

Well, those bridges were made by the Pact. There's no indication they raise, but no need for them to either - by the time Zhaitan dies and they open up ship trade to Labyrinthine Cliffs and Amnoon, they could have torn those hastily built bridges and made better ones. The shallowness can also be attributed to Zhaitan raising Orr, rather than having always been that way (and can also be attributed to the fact that the game downscales the size of areas in the open world rather than fitting lore distances). It isn't really a retcon, since the entire story of the island is that it's a newly formed and still volcanic piece of land (particularly the main portion where the karka hive is, hence why there's lava so close to the surface). The only "old island" part of Southsun Cove is Pearl Inlet. This is the entire backstory of Canach's involvement. It's a newly formed island that was discovered in the wake of Zhaitan's death and the freeing up of sea travel with no/fewer dead ships. The Consortium laid claim to it, and sent Canach's team to survey the land, but despite the dead ship presence, the karka had settled there (avoiding Orr because they're smarter than quaggans and krait in avoiding dragon minions). Fun fact, but that area was a scrapped mostly-aquatic level that was slated for the core release. This is why there's a path from Sparkfly Fen to that general area. Other scrapped areas that didn't get enough development to make it into the gw.dat like the original Lake Doric or the unnamed map at D'Alessio Seaboard. There was also a planned map north of Brisban, and south of Mount Maelstrom (also mostly aquatic) - hence why we can see zone portals leading into those directions. The reason why they did Southsun Cove instead of bringing that map back, I could only assume to be because players hated on underwater combat so much (same with Lake Doric's drainage - would have been great to have had the original with a giant kitten whirlpool in the lake). That's really interesting. I never heard about there being a map south of D'Alessio Seaboard and south of Mount Maelstrom. There any links or info? I've always been a big fan of old scrapped map stuff.

The dev's removed most of the npcs and content in the second living story update. There is actually zero content on the left of the island. I was there when the karka queen died in season 1 the entire zone was gutted and left as a pointless husk. Pure hyperbole. I've been around GW2 just as long and I do remember the changes Southsun has gone through since its release in November of 2012. Its changed but its not been "Gutted", the majority of the events it started with are still there. I think Terrack is referring to the removal of the Settler vs Consortium content from Secret of Southsun / Last Stand at Southsun after May 2013. 17 events were added for the duration of those four weeks, but only 7 were kept (three being "altered" (aka replaced by near identical events)), specifically those involved with the Karka Queen meta were kept; there were dozens of NPCs added, and almost all of them removed. In addition, one event was removed entirely, and another (a patrol) was gated to behind player count rather than always present. Southsun Cove would be far more interesting if those 10 events were never removed. But we can say the same for all Season 1 content. The Lost Shores' ending did remove a handful of events in Southsun, but also added a handful as well. namely, those removed were about establishing a base in Southsun Cove - something that would have had been removed with Secret of Southsun Cove anyways (it was barren between The Lost Shores and Secret of Southsun, admittedly). Most events removed weren't in Southsun Cove, but were involved in "phase 1" of The Lost Shores (quaggan rescue, largos escort, elixer making, karka invasion repelling, etc.) and were more story-focused. If ANet ever brings back Season 1 in a serious manner, I imagine most events from The Lost Shores would be more likely to be turned into micro story instances instead of returning as events. I don't dispute any of this, I remember most of it. But I think my point still stands, Terrack was being unnecessarily hyperbolic to the point of dishonesty, the majority of the content in Southsun has remained over the years, it has not been "gutted".Gutted in the sense that the map itself. The literal land mass. (Which is what we're talking about) Has no purpose. I don't think anything i said was dishonest. /shrug

I feel like Rox wouldn't want to get involved in the war. She is probably with the Olmakhan since they have been building them up to become her warband and their whole thing is they want nothing to do with wars.