Helgaley.3619

I agree. It also ends up sucking the fun out of the less popular builds and makes it to where you are essentially punished for not playing the popular build that arguably isn't popular because it's fun, but because it's the only viable build left. I'm at the point where, as a result of their profession balance and design decisions, the professions feel so unsatisfying to play that I haven't played for weeks now. I would like to experience the content that is currently in the game and learn about the lore in the first mini expac, but if the vehicles through which I experience that content are just fundamentally not fun or satisfying to play, then I am just not going to play the game at all. I feel like a broken record about this, but what I really don't get is why they are so bad at profession balance and design, especially since the EOD specializations were revealed. I get that they probably don't have the time and resources to make the big redesigns a lot of players may be hoping for, but is it really that hard to just tweak the numbers on underutilized weapons to make them more viable or remove smaller mechanics that add nothing fun or satisfying to a profession? And yes, I'm looking at you catalyst sphere energy mechanic.

I feel like the developers are approaching balance and profession design from the perspective of making it fair according to the quantitative data they have access to that we never see, and they aren't really considering whether the outcome of their approach is going to be fun or if it even makes sense. The implication is that our feedback accounts for a very small piece of what they take into consideration, and these elite specialization and weaponmaster betas etc are only done for the optics of making it seem like they value our feedback despite their actions pointing to the contrary. The pattern is just really tiresome, and I'm sick of these nonsense posts from the devs saying, "wow these changes really didn't land the way we intended" as if we weren't shouting at them for weeks to not make those changes. The lip service needs to stop.

It's tone deaf, but to me it also signals that they aren't willing to put in the work to give ele 5 new skills for each attunement with a 2h weapon or dual wield pistols. Doesn't matter if it's because they lack the time, resources, or they just don't want to do it. A hammer wielding bruiser with a magic technoball they tried to sell as a "traditional mage" was already a slap in the face, but now we've been pistol whipped.

I agree with you. This goes beyond the balance team, and I don't think calling for balance devs to be replaced is justified. I feel like this is a management problem and possibly related to what they are prioritizing or how they are allocating resources. There's obviously feedback available from the players, and Anet has the quantitative data on their end with the tools to make changes, so there is no good reason for these constant balance disasters. But how many of us have been in jobs with crappy leadership that either pushed for bad decisions that didn't make sense or put so much emphasis on messaging and marketing that there weren't enough resources to improve the actual quality of the product or service? You know it's bad because you're the one having to do the work and getting yelled at by angry customers, but you still do it because your livelihood depends on it and jobs don't fall out of trees these days. Calling this a balance problem doesn't feel right to me. It's been going on too long, but their messaging has reached a point where it's so far from the simple truth of their actions that it isn't even believable anymore, so who else would even push for it but a manager that 1) doesn't have to deal with the backlash and 2) doesn't care about anything other than metrics that make $$$. I'm not convinced that Cal is the person advocating for these changes when he's also the one who presents them during streams and gets targeted by the players in the inevitable backlash. I feel like this is most likely a leadership problem that is above Cal's head - there's been too much of a shift to unrealistic hyped up messaging that just boils down to marketing, and based on basically everything I've seen during my professional life, only someone in upper management could be so disconnected from reality.

It's not as if much feedback was incorporated during the betas for the EOD elite specializations. On the other hand, the current test for weaponmaster is a good way to retain players after what was likely expected to be a poorly received balance patch 😉

Regardless of what the actual reason is for them choosing main hand pistol, I feel like not going with longbow when ele players have wanted it for years is just laughably bad optics at this point. They could have the most logical reason in the world, but after catalyst, it just seems spiteful to not throw the players a bone for one of the least played professions. Meh

Kind of like Blizzard during their "do you guys even have phones?" BFA + Shadowlands era with WoW. Or when players were still requesting official classic servers and their response was basically "you think you want it, but you really don't." But then the classic servers turned out to be a huge hit, and now that they've been incorporating lots of player feedback in their latest expac, WoW has also turned around. Crazy how that happens when you simply give the players what they are asking for and focus on making it fun before worrying about anything else. Just as a sidenote, I don't think it's fair for players to be calling developers out by name and asking for them to be replaced like they did with this patch + the one last year, but it's 100% fair and justified for the players, as consumers, to be critical of Anet as a developer for not delivering on their promises. I think it's fine for developers to have their own vision and wishes from a game that they probably also enjoy playing, but it's on Anet and their managers to do a better job of making sure the whims of individual developers don't compromise the gameplay experience for the players who actually fund the game with our time and money. As it stands, I think Anet has shown that even though their words and promises and trailers are all very pretty and exciting, the players cannot trust Anet to follow through on their promises with their actions. It is perfectly acceptable to be critical of the producer of a product of that product does not live up to what they advertised, but I don't think it's okay for the players to attack the individual workers when really it's on Anet as a whole to manage those practices from within.

I uninstalled a few weeks ago myself, but I still plan on checking the forums in case there are some changes that make me want to return. I'm just so sick of the way they approach profession design and balance, and if my preferred class isn't enjoyable, then I simply do not want to play the game and be a metric they can point to and say, "they're still playing, so let's push on ahead on our current path!" Just as an example - how long have ele players been begging for a play style that fulfills the traditional mage archetype so many people are looking for? And how many people on the forums have been dying for ele to get a longbow as a new weapon? Despite all the feedback on the forums, what did we get in EoD? A hammer wielding core ele with an F5 skill that they still tried to sell as a "traditional mage." What are we getting after this mini-expansion releases? Mainhand pistol. With core/HoT/PoF, playing GW2 was like going to a restaurant where whatever dish you ordered, Anet was going to put their own distinct spin on it that was unique to Anet. It wasn't exactly what you wanted, but the fundamental ingredients are still there, and it's still good, so you keep coming back. These past 2-3 years though? It's like I'm getting my hopes up for a dish that I know will probably have some unique Anet spin on it, but they're serving this weird deconstructed "different for the sake of being different" amalgamation of ideas that gets served out of a lightbulb. It's not just that it doesn't even remotely resemble what I'd asked or hoped for, but it doesn't even make sense. With that being the case for so long now, why should we keep coming back to the game?

I predict that the 1 and 2 pistol skills will be 130 yard range melee abilities where you enchant the pistol with an element and then slap the enemy. The 3rd weapon skill will be the same across all elements, and you still enchant the pistol with an element, but instead of slapping the enemy, you throw it at them. It will have a 600 yard range. Very much a traditional mage vibe. 😉

It looks like ele will get main hand pistol in the mini expac, but I'd bet 10 laurels it will just be variations of using the pistol as a blunt force object to pistol whip the enemy in all 4 elements.

You forgot Mesmer 😭

I'm really just curious to see what they are going to say this year. It's the exact same negative response they received last year, and they've already used those lines about how they can do better with incorporating feedback and how they understand where we're coming from and what they're committed to moving forward, and yet here we are again. It'll be the same general PR and marketing response on Monday, but I just don't get why it continues to be such an issue. I started playing MMOs in 2004 or so, and I've played WoW and every WoW "killer" that has released since then, but I have never seen a developer as consistently awful at class balance as Anet is. Like I understand that balance isn't easy, and they'll never please everyone no matter what they do, but this is the 2nd big summer balance patch in a row that has been met with a response so negative that the game director, for the 2nd year in a row, is probably going to have to make a "we're sorry, we understand, we promise we'll do better!" post. It's not like the feedback isn't there, and we know they have access to some kind of data on their end, so it really shouldn't be that difficult to release a balance patch that the majority of players can live with even if they don't love it. The game obviously isn't at risk of dying anytime soon, but as time goes on, more and more people are going to notice that their PR and marketing messages are not aligned with their actions. A few incidents here and there are harmless, but these ongoing patterns are just going to erode any faith the playerbase has in Anet to deliver a fun gameplay experience, and then played retention is probably going to start to fall, beginning with veterans of the game.

Last year Grouch posted an update to the June 28 2022 patch the day before on the 27th: I wonder what it will say this year... Guess we'll find out on the 26th!

It's about 13:40 PST and I'm a little surprised we haven't had an update since the patch is supposed to drop on Tuesday...

Honestly they could have given us the exact same traits and utilities but with a longbow that has the exact same skills where only the element changes, and it wouldn't have had half as many complaints as catalyst. Lol. A hammer with a max 600 yard range that they tried to sell as a "traditional wizard" was the most tone deaf thing ever, and I have no sympathy for all the hate they've received for it.

Show some solidarity with your fellow scholar profession - I think we should both be upset that the fun and actual playability of both our main classes has been eroded over the years, and this patch is doing nothing to address it. Yes, catalyst can be very tanky in pvp and especially wvw where it has access to celestial gear, but it's still just core ele with an F5, and it still feels like garbage to play in virtually every other game mode.

I asked ChatGPT 4.0 to provide balance patch notes that would not make anyone angry, and I would strongly recommend Anet take these into consideration: Elementalist: "Meteor Shower" now summons actual meteors from space. Each meteor has a 0.01% chance of causing a mass extinction event. We felt this was a necessary change to make the skill feel more impactful. "Tornado" now sucks up nearby players and NPCs, depositing them in random locations across the map. We're not liable for any resulting fall damage. Engineer: "Flamethrower" now cooks any meat in your inventory while in use. Perfect for those mid-battle BBQs. "Supply Crate" now has a chance to drop actual crates from the sky, dealing massive damage. Watch your heads! Guardian: "Sanctuary" now plays smooth jazz for all players inside, providing a calming atmosphere amidst the chaos of battle. "Virtue of Courage" now makes your character incredibly brave, allowing them to tell that special someone how they really feel. Mesmer: "Illusionary Duelist" now creates an illusion of your character that argues with other players in map chat. "Portal Entre" now occasionally leads to a random bathroom in Divinity's Reach. Privacy not guaranteed. Necromancer: "Summon Flesh Golem" now summons a "Plush Golem" instead. It's less effective in combat but way cuter. "Death Shroud" now makes your character incredibly morbid, causing them to recite gothic poetry. Ranger: "Call of the Wild" now calls a random wild animal to your location. Could be a bunny. Could be a dragon. Good luck! "Bear Stance" now turns your character into an actual bear. You can't use skills, but you can catch fish with your bare hands. Revenant: "Invoke Legendary Dwarf Stance" now turns your character into a legendary dwarf. Your height is halved, but your beard game is unmatched. "Unyielding Anguish" now causes your character to have an existential crisis, questioning their purpose in the grand scheme of Tyria. Thief: "Steal" now allows you to steal the hearts of NPCs, making them fall in love with you. "Shadowstep" now occasionally leaves behind a shadow clone that does nothing but dance. Warrior: "Battle Standard" now plays your country's national anthem loudly, inspiring patriotism in your allies. "Berserker Stance" now causes your character to rip their shirt off and yell loudly, intimidating enemies with your ripped physique. I am particularly interested in the Mesmer changes.

Yeah, I spend most of my time on ele and definitely have complaints, but it is balanced with performance trade offs depending on your weapon and traits. It just can't compete with easier specializations that can do everything it can do but with less effort and fewer risks. I wish they would stop making this apprehensive and cautious number adjustments and address the poor playability of several professions before they go about trying to slap on alacrity/quickness wherever they can fit. Quickness catalyst still feels awful, quickness deadeye sounds like a mess, alacrity scrounge sounds like it will be DOA... It's like they're trying to solve old problems by creating new problems that they'll also never address. Lol.

I can only speak for myself, but I think part of the problem is that some classes have had their "reward" nerfed while retaining the same level of risk. Just as an example, if the devs want all classes to be within the same relative band of DPS, then what's the point of having glass professions like thief and elementalist? Their "cannon" isn't any more effective than other classes, but they still have to contend with having "glass" survivability and relatively more challenging rotations. I think it's fine to have a few glass cannon ranged specs that can outdps melee specs because those glass ranged classes don't really bring anything else to group content, and in pvp content, yes they can deal high damage quickly, but they'll die just as quickly once a melee class catches them.

Players aren't great at fixing problems, but we're very good at identifying them. It's Anets job to fix those problems, but they seem to be making them worse. They also don't need to consider every idea that comes up, but there are always going to be common trends that Anet can work with to make changes that would make the majority of players at least content. If the players identify something as a problem and offer a number of suggestions on how to fix it, Anet should be able to take that feedback and combine it with whatever data they have on hand to create a solution that actually works. For example, the boon ball meta in wvw has been problematic for years, so the solution in this patch should not have been to nerf boon corruption and strips. Quickness and alacrity are also problematic buffs that have become mandatory, but the solution is not to just slap it on every specialization without any consideration as to whether it even makes sense.

It's rotations are generally harder to learn than other professions, but it can't outdps them, and if you make a mistake, your DPS will suffer more than it would if you were on a different profession. It's boon support builds are also less efficient and less effective than the others because quickness and alacrity are tied to specialization mechanics rather than utilities, so they are both clunky and less desirable than other boon supports. It's fine for solo play, but I think the biggest limiting factor for ele in group content is how fragile it is. On top of all the other variables ele has to manage just to achieve the same or even worse results than other professions, if you misstep and get hit by a mob of boss mechanic, you will get one shot. It's almost guaranteed because ele has the lowest base HP and armor of all the scholar professions, and since you generally don't want to use toughness in group content, it can be very unforgiving when you're learning new fights. Unless you just really love elementalist, there isn't much reason to play it because it can't do anything better than what other professions can achieve for less effort, and the fragility can cause it to be a liability in group content.

Replying to myself because I still would prefer they be removed, but I was trying to think of some middle ground solutions that would reduce their impact without removing them entirely. WoW players no that several classes have a similar buff called heroism/bloodlust/time warp that provides like a group wide 20% haste buff on a 3 minute CD, but after it's used, it also applies a 10 minute debuff to the entire group that prevents players from benefitting from it again. I don't think it would be practical to have that exact mechanic in GW2, but what do you guys think about having some kind of diminishing returns on quickness and alacrity? For example, the first time they're applied, they provide their full effect at 25% alacrity/50% quickness, but the 2nd time, it's reduced to 12%/25%, but then the forum has to wait maybe 30-60 seconds before they can benefit from either buff again, regardless of source, and then it starts over with full effect, half effect, etc. They'd be more impactful this way since a group would have to think about when to use them during a fight rather than spamming them off CD. I know there have been some complaints about them being tied to utility skills that you just press whenever, but it doesn't really feel much better having to apply them via clunky mechanics like the jade sphere, and I think giving every specialization the ability to provide one or the other via an elite spec utility skill, when traited, with a diminishing returns mechanic would kind of address this since even though you could press them off CD, the group wouldn't benefit from it until maybe 30-60 seconds have passed.

It also can't react to movement, so if you put the sphere down and the group moves, you're SOL for at least 15 seconds AND until you get enough energy to place it again. Catalyst is just a very poorly designed elite specialization in general, we could poke holes in it all day, just like you can with untamed. The hammer is CURSED. Lol.

It already has a CD. It has both energy and a CD, and we've been asking for energy to be removed since the EOD specialization betas lol

Honestly, I want them both removed. They aren't healthy for the game, the new support builds they're adding specifically to provide one or the other don't feel good to play, and if it doesn't feel good to play, obviously nobody is going to play it. Too many professions already have horrible playability, and trying to incorporate quickness and alacrity into every profession is just compounding on that problem. Like the upcoming alacrity change for bladesworn honestly sounds awful, and I don't even play warrior...