Nick.5276

Why pay at all for a save function? Just ridiculous. No one is making you pay for anything .. you can choose to not use the feature ... such a ridiculous rantYou are correct. You can't bypass it. You HAVE to use it. You can use all or some of it but you have to use it.Given that it is worse than what we have at the moment, which is nothing, that's a great improvement!

Because we are victims of Hope, the cruelest flaw in human behaviour followed by belief

One could argue, Anet sells expansions too cheap.Not really. 30-40€ is in line with expansions of other games and Anets expansions only come with elite specs + open world. Not even a set of dungeons, fractals, raids or anything pvp related except the new specs. Mounts were nice but also heavily monetized in gemstore. Not a single skin earnable ingame. The amount of players completing living story isnt even high enough to justify 90% of dev time and focus. The reason why they don't add a one time payment to unlock the full thing is quite simple money. It's also p2w in wvsw since it allows instant swapping with a hotkey to counter specific builds.It does not allow hot key swapping in WvW. You can only swap in your keep, not in the battlefield

One could argue, Anet sells expansions too cheap. troo. I'd have to see some seriously good content to be reassured their expansions are worth it for more though.

Jeebuz You'd pay more than the cost of an expansion for a QOL? really? I'd pay $15 NZD and no more ever

I get where some of you are coming from. There certainly are usecases that are better off with the way Arc designed its template system. There are however many different usecases, and the new system does have its good points for many players, too. If you want the ANet system to evolve to suit your needs better, the first step should be to understand why they choose to implement it this way and not the way the template addon was implemented, who benefits from the differences in implementation, and then suggest how to adjust the implementation so it suits everyone better. Just saying "what I used is better. period." without acknowledging the thoughts and ideas that went into this implementation won't get you anywhere. Good lord! useful, reasoned feedback with concrete examples, thanks Rasimir.I do wish they would explain how they got to where they are. If it's engine limitations channeling design then cool, if it's because they have improvements coming I'd like to hear it, just saying this is what you get worries me.

Not true, there was no graceful way to handle switching from two one handed weapons to one two handed weapon. It just shot the off hand out where your normal loot would go. How? If you mean compared to Arc? Sure. Otherwise I see nothing stopping you from using the first template exactly like you do now without Arc. Sorry, I'm unclear on the first bit. Do you mean it dumped it into inventory? or it just didn't swap? The difficulty with legendary gear is you cannot select stats as you did with ArcDPS on swapping. You have to go through swapping sigils, runes and stats individually

The basis of these threads isArcDPS is better in every way than the official offeringThe official version actually makes the game worse for legendary gear ownersIt costs users time to make the official version even palatable to use over not having either ArcDPS or nothing changed AT ALLIt will in fact make every user Dependent on a template system in the end as it becomes the norm, exactly the point you are arguing against Quote " Grow dependant on that program" - Either ArcDPS or the Official vesrion The overall conclusion is please don't put this incarnation in the game at all, it makes it worse!

So your arguments have now evolved into Use at your own risk combined with become dependant on at your own risk So you are assuming we don't understand the risks of an unsupported app and we are not responsible enough to manage our own gameplay.That kind of patronizing attitude died along with the British empire, don't cha' know?

The jury rigged system offered an array of flexibility from a non paid amateur while the professionally crafted system cannot even come close. Your signature is a fallacy you realise? We cannot raise our Game since it can only be within the confines of what Anet offers. Giving 110% is impossible.

Yes we would ridicule them if it broke often for being rubbish and sloppy because none of those reasons are acceptable for any product. What is your point? that as consumers we should settle for crap?

Yes it was a mod, yes it was illegal.What I am saying is it was everything that a build template system should be and the official template system is not. It also penalises legendary equipment for the very reason you are supposed to value legendary equipment, versatility.

All of the build template details are public domain. That means we know exactly what it is going to be. We've had forum posts regarding how they will work. A dev video of how they will work. An official news GW2 news announcement. Only the costs have to be hashed out.

ArcDPS was a mod, produced in a programmers spare time, that was capable of all gear, trait and build management facility that a player could want. It was free and was updated every time a GW2 patch broke the environment in which it operated. It was purely optional to use. The official build templates, produced by the in game, paid developers, are not even close to the functionality, do not allow for nearly the same number of options of build and gear variation and deliberately penalise users of the highest tiers of gear. It is being imposed* on us and costs in real time to upgrade. Real time to earn real money or in game currency, to convert to game currency to upgrade. All details regarding the system are in the public domain save the costs which have been indicated will be in the ball park of current upgrade costs and so can be safely estimated Option Give or take it doesn't have to affect meor*No choice to use and may cost just to make it bearable to continue play the game. Penalises players with Alt's or Legendary gear. Is this clear enough?

This discussion has been merged.

Because once Steve spawns, you ain't ever gettin' out

I forgot to thank Asum for the original post which is clear, concise and excellently addresses the issues and concerns. I am sure it is appreciated by everyone who has replied and those who have taken the time to read it

Well my guess once it's released - The game loses about half of it's regular raiders due to the new template system. It's just not worth it to players to pay to configure their builds and gear for the new lesser system. They'll just pack it in.Good news for GW2 dev's, no need to make more raid content. So overall the quality of the game drops as we lose those people who essentially stress test the system. The system will confuse, annoy and infuriate the rest of the players as it is to bitsy to manage but they are forced to adapt to a new way of organising their gear, builds etc. New people will come to the forums asking how this could happen since they wern't aware of the impact it would have on them till it lands in their laps and re-organises everything. The fun factor will evaporate in a period of WTF? How do I use this? Why do we have it? I liked playing the way it was before, Why do i have to learn a whole new way of playing "Manage your inventory 2.0" It was fine before. A lot has been said about "Most people won't notice or will like the new options" however if there is one common thread in "Most people" it's that they don't deal with change well. This change is not optional. You cannot opt out. GW2 is for playing for fun and for "Most people" that does not include learning the intricacies of a multi-part gear/build management system and then discovering they will have to pay, in real time*, to gain more of it in the hope it improves. *whether its RL money, or game currency, it's just an exchange of actual time Nick

From the 16min mark in the video of the Dev(?) discussion of build templates, a partial transcript of what I think are the important transactions. Amy, Ruby, Clayton Amy “Three build tabs and Three build storage tabs automatically unlocked and another Three you can grab from the gem store” Ruby “Those will be free for a month, we are still working on the fine turning of what those are going to cost, they will be in line with other storage options like bag slots and bank slots but we are still fine tuning them.” Clayton “What this allows you to do for the equipment stuff is take it out of your inventory so we are clearing what would seem to be a ton of stuff from your inventory which is really awesome” – thanks for your modesty Clayton Later Clayton “The three tabs up top, these are character specific?” Amy “Yes.” Clayton “So each character will have their own specific Three.” Amy “Yes they will. On day one they will be prepopulated with your pve, pvp, wvw builds because right now on live you have Three builds already so those are the Three that we will be using to populate those Three tabs.” Clayton “So the six on the left, which includes the 3 free ones, those will be account wide” Amy “Yes you can put whichever ones you want in there.” The verbal discussion, as they usually are, seems very confused/confusing “Three build tabs and Three build storage tabs automatically unlocked and another Three you can grab from the gem store” – is that 3 build tabs or 3 storage tabs from the store? and contradicted by the numbers given on the website break down below “2 equipment templates for free” From the GW2 website article (3) Build Templates – utility skills, specializations, and major trait choices At release, each character will get three Build Template tabs, which will be preloaded with their existing equipped builds from PvE, PvP, and WvW. You can swap the contents of the Build Template tabs for use in any game mode or purchase more tabs from the Gem Store. (2) Equipment Templates - equipment, along with any attribute choices and upgrades Each of your characters will have access to two Equipment Template tabs for free, and the first will be automatically populated with an Equipment Template containing the gear your character was wearing when you last logged in. You can purchase additional Equipment Template tabs from the Gem Store. (3+3free) Build Storage space – The equipment you are not currently using Your account will have access to three Build Storage Spaces for free. To obtain more, you can purchase them in packs of three in the Gem Store. For a limited time after release, you’ll be able to pick up a free pack in the Gem Store for a total of six free Build Storage Spaces. (TLDR) Build Templates They are taking away the existing build switching from game modes of PVP, WVW, PVE and putting in a “New” system for “Free”. – It’s not new and was always free so ArcDPS users -1, others +0. Equipment Templates Never had equipment templates in the game* as such so ArcDPS users -1, others +1 Build Storage space Equipment no longer having to be held in bank or bag tabs, but sharing difficulties with legendary gear and runes/sigils(Is that correct?). ArcDPS users -1, for others +1 My final rating ArcDPS users: -3 Others: +2 If they were interested in introducing a system that matched what other games already have, was better than what was built for free and wanted to generate buzz for GW2, they have come up with something that has fallen short of it. For most users, it will be ok not great, but ok. If it was a choice of, use nothing and pay nothing or pay 2000 gems for unlimited build templates, unlimited gear templates and 6 build storage spaces templates, I’d pay 2000 gems. As it is the choice seems to be, use nothing and pay nothing or use a poor system and pay to make it tolerable, they get nothing and they lose my faith that they are a capable developer and have my interests and support as a gamer in mind. Nick

From what I have seen, we are getting some as part of the core game, just like every other quantity-based feature they sell in the GS. That's not a bunch to you? Sounds like something you should get over. No reasonable person is going to argue what 'a bunch' means. You think Anet should offer volume pricing/etc? ... you, me and everyone should already have a really high certainty of how these things are going to be priced ... just like every other quantity-based feature in the GS. If you think of things Anet should do ... and you know they aren't ... you're expectations aren't realistic. In the last 7 years, have you ever seen Anet offer volume-pricing or discounting for bank slots, inventory slots, character slots, shared bags, etc .... ? I haven't. I wouldn't expect such a thing for this feature or any other. My advice is that you watch for sales on the GS, because we know Anet has them. Get your 'volume-discount' then. I do believe that any, as you say, reasonable person would say that after 7(!) years, for Anet to release an inferior build/gear swapping system to something a gamer did for free and charge for it, is unreasonable. For them to offer far less flexibility and not make it free is unreasonable. For them to expect players to pay for it with their time to make it even a pale shadow of the free version, is unreasonable. To remove the option of using ArcDPS and taking all the risks associated with it into their own hands sounds like monopolising to monetise for the sake of it.

Lets implant the WoW version then .Yoiu start with a single baseline talent tree sheetYou have to pay extra with gold for another sheet (1000 gold)(doing Mithic Dungeons awarded you with 12 gold, i dont know in 99/100 Fractals how many gold you get here as comparison)If you want to ''reset'' a single talent tree , you pay 1gold>next time , 10> 100 gold and it stays there.After not .touching it/reseting for 1 month it drops in 50 gold and keep lowering for every 15 days afterwards(havent played after Panderia) (edit: personality i wont pay money or even buy it with gold . But any goldsink mechanic to try to keep steady the gold/gem conversion is very welcomed .We dont want to become like china in the first when HoT was launched (1000 gold for 100 gems)I need more flower costumes to buy with gold instead:P This whole response confuses meWoW and GW2 versionYou start with 3 baseline talent trees - so no, you are wrongYou have to pay to get more - No you didn't. 3 from the start, same as GWIf you want to reset a single tree you pay - WoW did charge and then dumped it. GW - ingame currency at the start but shortly thereafter, it's free.Additional features have been added to WoW and the subscription has not changed. Some features at expansion release, when you would expect, and others as time has passed between expansions. Aside from that you only ever got more features in WoW and the subscription never changed price. Those features, backed into the WoW engine were often better than what mod makers offered by giving support for lost items, account recovery etc. Aside from dealing with replies like this which I'd rather not see muddying the waters in this issue, I'd like to see concerned people keep the topic alive if only to make it apparent that it is not an acceptable feature in it's current state of currency cost, design or closing out competition who can do the job better(ArcDPS).

I thought that this was the funniest thing I've read yet in one of these complaint threads until I saw: I mean, come on guys. There are legitimate concerns to voice and then there is... this. Thought I'd follow up on this one as it seems to be a touchstone.Is the video poster wrong about the code already being in the GW2 engine? if it's not there then you have my apologies, I was wrong. If it is there though, why haven't they used what already exists? Not making a profitThere are dozens of business models where the business does not make money but they are a business. Often with shareholders and investors. In fact many non-profit organisations, FIFA for example, have billions of dollars and are non-profit. Many businesses have run in the red for years to build up enough of a market to be able to run in the black, Amazon for example. Their future success has been no more assured than any business starting in the black.The accepted business "Model" does not exist when profit can legally be declared re-investment, the tax for that re-investment then written off for a % refund and government support then claimed as the business does not make a "profit"I'm not saying this is what Anet does. I am saying that a business HAS to make a profit is something that died in the what...1600th C

It's like you are renting a house. ($60 for GW2 at release, $50 expansion at release, both now free, costs for expansions since)A couple of months in you think, man I could use some air conditioning. So you ask the landlord and they say "Fine. There's ducting there and the set up but you'll have to remove your system when I install my version."OK! you say and talk to your friend who hooks up the system for free and off you go! It's temperamental and your friend keeps tinkering but it has heaps of controls, settings, flexibility and works well most of the time.Seven years later your landlord says "I'm installing a new AC system. It doesn't have nearly as many of the options, fewer controls and less flexibility. You'll have to pay for additional features to. "And you say "Bye." The code for the build template system was already there from GW1, none of the other games I've played have charged "Extra" for a build/gear template system even when introduced later, other build systems have been as good, if not better for being provided by the game developer. So for me Anet has shown how moneytisingly hungry they have become. Before you mention it. GW2 does not need to make money to continue to be in business. As long as the balance sheet balances, they are good to go. New features don't even need new money, just move the focus of features around on the schedule. Clear plans, forecasts and asset allocation are essential for good work practice, but I shouldn't have to remind them of that.

This discussion has been merged.