Sebrent.3625

Main-hand Sword skill #3 provides a Leap and the ability to either return to our previous location OR swap places with our close (Virtuoso vs non-Virtuoso). There is no timer to tell us how much longer we have until the ability to swap places is no longer available. Thief has a similar ability on Main-hand Sword skill #2. It does provide an icon with a timer to tell them. I think we should have that same nice quality-of-life. Simple as that. Two images for comparison https://imgur.com/gallery/fhXMNUH You can see in the images that we have a circle indicating where we teleported from (Virtuoso in this example) for both classes, but there is no boon/status icon for the Mesmer. There is for the Thief and it even has a cooldown when you mouseover it and starts to blink when it's about to go away.

I've been running pure Zerk in Open World and playing around with various combinations in PvP. Condition is pretty mean with some trait combinations in PvP. If you get someone to waste their cleanse CDs and hit with a solid Bladesong Sorrow with some trait combos ... that's a dead person. I look forward to seeing the numbers people have run.

@desu.2514 100% agree on sword skills counting as blade skills (it's certainly not a blunt weapon :-D) I'd love for that on Focus as well as it would provide more synergies with other weapons with the traits. Right now the only ones I have are the Block on Sword and Bleeds from Pistol if you are using Dueling as well (but that's quite a trait investment unless you're already going that route). Yeah, as said above, the 1s bleed is too short. 100% on sharper images. It's a trait that is made almost useless (only almost because we do have phantasms). It's a pity too because Dueling has some good synergies with Virtuoso. I said that about the one part where you try to talk about the person and not the class. That part is 100% useless. Just like this derailing. This is the Mesmer forum. Not the <insert player name here> forum. I'm allowed to agree with you btw. There are the points where I agree and the points where I disagree or think someone should run the numbers and let's see as I have yet to see anyone share them for those things. This is how conversation works. We're not going to 100% agree or 100% disagree on everything. Perhaps look at the areas we agree and build from there for some common ground. Then take another look at where we disagree and gather some numbers or other points to contribute. Just a suggestion for what would actually contribute.

I was recently asking questions of Elementalist forum and the advice they gave was about making good use of the combo fields. So I I'd say that some of the context around if it matters or not depends a good bit on the class/spec. The example they were giving was getting fire aura more often from comboing different abilities with fields as it provides additional condi cleanse as well as more burning for anything that may hit you. Mesmer with Staff also makes good use of Etheral for getting more Chaos armor for various reasons that depend on the spec being played.

@Salt Mode.3780 That's great that that somehow says what kind of player I am. Provides nothing to the conversation though and extremely vague. We're probably better served talking about the class. Back to the conversation. It feels like I'm shattering more because I'm generating charges for my shatters quite often and quite naturally. - 3 Charges every time I block/dodge an attack (3s icd) - 1 Charge every 3s - or 1 Charge every 5 bleed applications (which can feed itself more charges from shatters w/ some spec combos). If you haven't combined the bleed on crit with 5x bleeds gives a blade and Duelist's Discipline ... I recommend trying it. Haven't run the numbers on it yet, but it feels good. These are things I'm just doing that have a positive feedback loop into each other. I like the feel of it the same way I like the feel of Chronomancer shatters providing me alacrity so I can summon more Illusions to shatter more. It works well with itself. For Chronomancer, we could more quickly use our utilities and weapon skills so definitely the most comparable probably followed by Mirage's ability to spam clones with Sword's Ambush attack and then Core as the slowest. Have you or anyone else actually run the numbers for Resource Generation for shatters between the specs? Shatter cooldowns Core/Mirage/Chrono/Virtuoso #1: 12 / 12 / 12 / 12 #2: 25 / 25 / 30 / 20 #3: 38 / 38 / 38 / 30 #4: 50 / 50 / 105 / 30 Shatter #1 is the same cd across the board. Shatter #2 is longest for Chrono and Shortest for Virtuoso Shatter #3 is tied for 2nd with Shortest for Virtuoso Shatter #4 is longest for Chrono and Shortest for Virtuoso Now, throw in 50% alacrity with 100% uptime, Chrono definitely takes the cake though as 12 becomes 6, 30 becomes 15, 38 becomes 19, and 105 comes down to a more reasonable (for the power it brings) 52.5. It's just a matter of Illusion generation at that point. If running Alacrity Mirage, for the 25%, then 12 becomes 9, and so on as well. So standing alone, Mirage and Chrono can get lower cooldowns for sure. If I have someone else providing the Alacrity (sadly Virtuoso can't and I'm sad about that), then we have a different story again though ... though Chrono's 50% alacrity is boss. As far as projectiles vs clones ... in PvP, people can't avoid Virtuoso's shatters by using a small ledge or other similar terrain pathing abuse. That is nice. I also don't have to watch super speed and teleports be used to avoid/delay my shatters hitting. I think the counterplay to the shatters has simply changed. Now, would I prefer shatters to go back to 0 cast time? Heck yes. I think that's in-line with how the class is supposed to feel. @OriOri.8724 It does seem selfish as it's not providing crap to others. The question is "is it a good enough pure dps to warrant that"? I don't disagree that it would be nice to see different shatters.That being said, I do like that #2 gave us bleeds on the shatter. Not a huge change, but a bit of one that has some nice synergies with various things including Virtuoso traits. Why does dagger "work best" at range? Its damage does not scale up/down based on range like the Greatsword. I'm having good success with that condi traitline as it is popping out blades for me faster than I can shatter then using all 4 shatters with two charges of #1. I want some friggin alacrity for my shatter cooldowns :-p. It's also got some pretty nice synergies with other traitlines for that condition damage. I think they are providing flexibility in running it power/hybrid/condi ... however you want. I do think the duration on blade bleeds could use a bit more base duration though. Again, why is it a "ranged" spec? Just because it can tag someone at 1,200 range doesn't mean it has to be at range. There's also nothing keeping you from using Dagger with your off-hand(s) of choice for helping with you being/staying at range.

There are some good ways to use it with Condi ... or at least seemingly good. But I do agree that it was sub-optimal (to be nice) to pigeon-hole the stats on it to Condition. That's not much of an option ... Condition stats in 3 flavors ... versus giving us Condition stats, Power stats, and maybe Hybrid stats. edit: I guess we can consider Carrion hybrid.

What attributes of it are you citing as making it "unfinished" ? I'm truly asking as I don't dive through the whole Mesmer forum each day so am not privy to all prior conversations. I'm enjoying it as well as I feel like I'm shattering far more in both PvE and sPvP and the shatters are more reliable as I'm not dealing with AI and its pathing. That said, I'm aware of the pros/cons we're trading between shattering daggers (projectiles) and our clones (line of sight, cast time, counters to projectiles, etc.) I'm also enjoying getting fury, quickness, and regen all the time from the blocks I get from the constant Aegis I'm also getting. It is at least feeling good as I use it. I don't feel like I'm having to play awkwardly to get the pieces to work together correctly. Even the Sword leap change is nice as I can go from range with the dagger, swap to sword, leap into melee for sword action, then teleport back to range and swap back to dagger.

I haven't tried it, but I won't write it off. Pre-virtuoso, we already had some builds that paired Staff with Sword for solid success. He may have a point with the shatters handling it, but I think that's going to depend on the spec and how he is generating daggers. He may also be talking more about a hybrid build ... and that's quite common both pre- and post-virtuoso for Mesmers. @Jables.4659would you mind sharing the build(s) you're playing around with and referencing so we can better look at and discuss?

@fuzzyp.6295Thank you. This is exactly what I was looking for. It's also nice to see that immobilize and chill are just generally challenges for the Elementalist; that it's not just me. If you (or anyone else) can think of anything else related to when you need to deal with an immobilize quickly (they are generally tailed by burst), please let me know. Those are the things I struggle with. General condi load staying down isn't bad.

This is why we have the other buttons ... and it's on a lower cooldown than many cleanses ;-) Same build applies bleeds on crit (mine and phantasms), phantasmal duelist Then have torment on all the shatters, 5x instead of 3x from the other builds ... and each shatter is blades too so those can cause bleeds. I didn't find the conditions from clones to be that great TBH and I had tested on the golems a decent bit where I'd turn off my auto and just have 3 staff, scepter, or axe clones do their thing as I watched and recorded. I think that is fair. The primary benefit I see of the Virtuoso is more reliable resource management for shatters (nothing is popping my daggers early). which has benefits in each game mode. That being said, "did we actually get a new role we can fill" or "become more viable in 1+ game mode" with the introduction of Virtuoso? That is a solid question and the one to continue to ask not just for Mesmer but for the specs for every class.

Thanks. I was use the Fire Weaver build from metabattle.com and godsofpvp.net (they differ in the utilities, that's about it). https://www.godsofpvp.net/builds/elementalist https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Weaver_-_Fire_Weaver Here it is from me on gw2skills.net: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgAw2lZwkYRsHmJOSXbvfA-e To be clearer, I was having issues with how weaver works because the cleanse from fire was a small cleanse from going into fire, and another cleanse on the aura, but I have to swap to fire 2x or fire and then something else to get access to Fire #5. Same with earth having its cleanse on #4. Water I could swap to for the cleanse on dodge, but it was being immobilized that really seemed to get me. It may just be needing more practice, but I was curious for tips to possible speed up the learning process. Thanks again in advance.

I've been amused by the comments here and there talking about Virtuoso and conditions being bad. One button and I applied 5+ bleeds, 20 stacks of confusion, and 5 stacks of torment as well as 10 vulnerability and cripple. It's on a nice low cooldown too. It generally gives me back 2 of my 5 blades to boot. Am I missing something w.r.t. to that?

I don't think it lead to not using the mechanic. I think it was providing something in those cases where you otherwise lost a resource (clones for shatters) and were given nothing to compensate for their fragile AI bodies (and minds) dying. I also, as I previously posted, believe it provided scenarios where there was counterplay and thought as opposed to the current, "I'll just cleave the clones with my melee/aoe spam as I run towards the real one".

Whenever I'm on the Elementalist, I generally run into one issue ... my cleanses are on my weapon skills. Now, this isn't an issue in PvE as you generally have time to swap attunement and cleanse whatever. However, I find myself struggling in PvP when I need to quickly cleanse. I'm so used to relying on Utility skills for this. Any tips beyond keep practicing? Thanks in advance.

Looks like we've gotten into the broader category of things for the Mesmer. I like it. On-Clone-Death My thinking w.r.t. on-clone-death mechanics was that it made it so that there was more feedback/impact to "poor" targeting decisions. When you are a build that just AOEs/cleaves like a maniac (and there is not a shortage of this), there isn't much, if any, feedback on this. So the non-Mesmer is simply destroying the resources for the Mesmer mechanic and nothing else is being gained by the Mesmer nor lost by the non-Mesmer. There's no thought to it because there doesn't need to be for the non-Mesmer. With on-clone-death mechanics, there was some thought at least: * Do I want to be more accurate with my targeting so I'm not incurring these conditions? * Do I want to cleave down these clones to deny them [stronger] shatters but at the cost of cripple, bleed x1, and/or weakness? * Do I want to leave the clones alone because I can feel I can dodge the shatters they'll be used for? It makes there be actual decision-making as opposed to "whoops, accidentally killed another clone, yay". Phantasm You touched on the phantasm changes. I think that was an intelligent change for simplifying the balancing of the class. I imagine it was quite difficult to try to balance phantasms when one person is trying to get out three phantasms fully traited to just stay out and pump damage versus people who are shattering constantly and then everyone in between. Possible Changes I like your suggestions for clones. Nice variety and each has some merit (I think some more than others). * Invulnerable but health degrades over time would solve the problem of being AOE'd down while not starting a new problem of never-ending harassment from invulnerable illusions. However, for PvE, the AI would likely suffer here or they'd have to simply have it start ignoring our illusions which I believe would tick some people off. * Buffing illusion health would be a softer version of the above as it would make them take more AOE before they were popped, but AI in PvE would be on our clones for even longer then (maybe an issue, maybe not). In the larger-scale WvW, I don't think this would solve the issue simply due to the sheer abundance of AOEs. However, maybe it could be good as the AOEs do have a target limit and now illusions are providing a new use eating up some of those target slots as they don't just immediately pop. * Illusions take less damage from AOE ... I do like this. I'm curious about how much less damage? 50%? 90%? Also, what would be considered an AOE? There is quite a bit of cleaving going on as well and I don't think there is a difference between a melee cleave targeted versus not. * Less vulnerable to strike damage I'm not sure would accomplish as much as there is some very burst-y condition damage. eSpecs I think ANet is aware of the issue and Virtuoso is their first attempt at trying to provide solutions to it by providing eSpecs that play more/less to different styles, and, in this case, drastically change an element of the class mechanic.

Ah, I forgot about that when thinking about it with the Chrono. With Core/Mirage, I was thinking I could do a decent amount of damage with 3 Distortions woven in with blocks, etc.. ./shrug ... just thoughts and playing around. Doesn't seem people are too keen on being able to double-up on all 4 shatters (or 3 in Chrono's case).

Context ... love to play around with builds and try new things. Was playing around with Mimic a bit and it dawned on me, if I pair this with Signet of Illusions, I can refresh my shatters instantly twice in a very small span of time. Assuming you handle your clone generation and just looking at our 4th shatter. ... Core/Mirage could Distort 3 times in short order for an immense amount of distortion ... quite a deal of time in which you don't get hit but those around you [likely] do. ... Chronomancer, this would be Continuum Shift 3 times in short order as well. That's 3 times to get to try to blow your rotation on folks. Obviously there are other uses, but the sheer power of our shatters and being able to refresh them not once but twice in short order got me to thinking and curious about other's thoughts.

Understandable, but I only half agree. I found that it made every clone useful more often. You shatter it? Great. Love shatters. Something kills it before you shatter it? Great. They are punished. You overflow on the number of clones you have? Great. They explode as if killed. This last one actually worked well if you were trying to keep cripple/weakness/bleeding on an enemy while you were using scepter.

I miss them because the thing that most attracted me to the Mesmer when the game first released was how it punished people who just spammed all their attacks at you.

For context for those that don't know, we used to be able to take traits that made it so that when our clones died, they would explode in a small AOE and apply conditions (bleed, cripple, weakness). Each was a different trait, but it wasn't hard to fit them into all sorts of builds. I'm curious if anyone else misses these traits. I do whenever I see someone simply tab-targeting and cleave clones to try to "solve" the "issue" of picking the correct Mesmer (because noticing the one not acting like a bot is [apparently] hard <_<) Does anyone know why those traits were removed in the streamlining of the trait system? Thoughts on a revival of such traits?

Not leaning one way or the other on this, but one thing to note when comparing the Mesmer Greatsword to other ranged weapons like the Ranger Longbow is that one is a projectile and the other is not. There is less counterplay vs the Mesmer Greatsword than there is vs the Ranger Longbow since the Mesmer Greatsword is unaffected by anti-projectile mechanics. Does that warrant the other differences? ./shrug

For context, I'm aware of the builds posted for each game mode (Snow Crows, metabattle, etc.). Despite those, I still like to play around with builds. Playing around a bit with Chrono I was noticing a synergy between Domination, Illusions, and Chronomancer with Mesmer Greatsword Traits: Bountiful Blades ... Phantasmal Berserker summons an additional Berserker (phantasm) Compounding Power ... Creating an illusion increases your outgoing damage and gives increased condition damage (+2% Damage, +30 Condition Damage for 8s ... max stack 5) Phantasmal Haste ... Phantasms spawn with quickness. Gain quickness when you create a phantasm (1s) Phantasmal Force ... Phantasms deal increased strike damage for each stack of might you have. Gain might when your phantasms become clones. Chronophantasma ... The first time a Phantasm would become a clone, it instead resummons itself and attacks again. So when I cast just Phantasmal Berserker on my greatsword ... ... initially 2 phantasmal power 2s of quickness ... when they resummon theirselves 4 phantasmal power (+2 from previous) 2s of quickenss again 4 stacks of might ... when they become clones 5 phantasmal power (+2 from previous but caps at 5) 8 stacks of might (+4 from previous) 2 clones ready to shatter Anyone else use this for any game modes? Why or why not? Honestly, I'm just curious about others' experiences.

Hi, I played the game for quite a bit from beta and release but then took off right before the first expansion as I followed my MMO guild at the time. I'm back now along with my brother. We both looked at this thread and would love invites (he is the post above ... Mulark). Hopefully see you in-game!