shaz.8572

I propose a druid change that will allow the class trait to still function with a fundamental change Most of the complaints with HOW druid applies alac are with having to burn celestial avatar. Considering that we already have an example class, scrapper applying quickness on blast or leap finishers, this would be a PRIME solution to implement. Currently the class requires you to spam celestial avatar, with the proposed change to the trait Grace the land, it will move the player to be required to use blast or leap finishers. Considering that the class has a blast finisher in celestial avatar and in staff. Several leaps in sword and great sword and dagger, along with another blast with warhorn, Spirits blast finish already so this would technically work these those changes. These are items the people generally already used in the class kit. This change would allow the trait to be synergize with group play already, and give people their decision making back. tweaks to how much would possible have to be made, but this change would drastically reduce the already frantic high apm mash mode that people hate in its current implementation. Can any one think of a negative to trying this method of applying alac that would be worse that the current implementation? Consider all the other good feeling classes, warrior, revenant, guardian. These classes apply the boons by just play the class mechanics, in most cases while retaining the flexibility of choice. Tying the mechanic to an action that always is required is always a result that causes bad feelings, example mirage alac, forcing you to use the staff ambush for the most part. Old herald requiring button mashing to provide boons, and now druid that forces the interaction by always having to be in celestial avatar mode. I hope that we can at least try this trait interaction and see what happens.

I vote that they modify the trait a bit further, Instead of only blast and leaps, how about ALSO including WHIRL finishers given that would give us a third way to apply boons, but it would fit in really nicely with the current scrapper finishers, one whirl on hammer in addition to the current two application methods. Could also consider adding explosions to the mix, but again too many options may allow for a huge overload, maybe have a ICD potentially between all these applications sources? Arent they working on moving away from only ONE way to play a class, this might make some additional options for people if the current methods are too hard to use. Heck the more i play scrapper, the more options im finding, example here are all the class blast and leap finishers i have noticed. Beyond the hammer and gyros. weapons: rifle, shield, sword, mace heals: med kit utilities: thumper turret, flame thrower, elixir gun, throw mine, rocket boots elite: supply crate tool belt skills: bomb kit, thumper turret If they allowed whirl skills that might allow 3-4 more options to apply quickness. Over all i can see that if they allowed any more it might be too many choices. They might have to tweak the numbers a bit more, but over all from when they release the beta weapons this will leave us in a lot better spot even in things dont change back, there is more changes so we might just have to see how it plays out.

I say follow what they implemented for scrapper, allow alac to apply on blast and leap finishers we have a lot of them apparently, and they are already baked into the class kit with out too much changes. Example using staff, a main hand and warhorn, you would have at least 2 -4 leap or blast finishers. one blast finisher in celestial avatar and with spirits ALSO allowing blast finishers, this might be a viable solution on the HOW to apply alac, while also allowing people to remain flexible on their play style. Heck just applying it on blast finishers would be a change if they dont want to allow leaps. Any one have any ideas on negative aspects on this type of change to how the alac would be applied?

I have a proposal on how to change the trait Grace of the land. Right now it only applies alac with celestial abilities, my suggestion is to take a look at how scrapper applies alac currently and make a similar adjustment to druid. The scrapper trait currently applies alac by combo'ing blast or leap finishers. considering that there are multiple methods to apply blast or leap finishers with in the druid weapon and utility tool kits, this might make a smart move in order to move away from the current method that relies on burning celestial avatar abilities in order to provide alac and also steer back to a more flexible way to apply alac by using available options already present with in the class. From a pve group perspective the only thing i have found negative is the lack of fluidity on how the class applies alac. We know they have found a solution, we just need to make them realize and see if this will feel better overall in this specific situation. I hope im not totally off base but right now the current implementation feel bad.

I do honestly think that they gave scrapper a really good idea on HOW to apply the boons. Since we are kinda moving away from healer only uses staff type stuff with the release of the new weapons. I think that grace of the land should apply boons on blast finishers and leaps instead of forcing celestial, considering that not every one will want to burn celestial cool down, this will allow flexibility while retaining identity. Here is list that i have seen on weapon skills. two leap finishers on sword one blast on hammer/ two if you count unleashed alt mode. one leap on dagger one leap on great sword one blast on staff one blast on warhorn one blast on cele avatar mode. all spirits blast finish technically so 1 heal blast, 4 util blasts, 1 elite skill so even if they dont want to include leaps that would allow natural boon application assuming that you use staff, some main had and warhorn on druid, which allows multiple ways to provide the HOW with out forcing any one to burn celestial mode. This would allow a NATURAL FLOW to gameplay with out forcing it to always make you burn celestial avatar and you can still potentially keep alac up and heal with out disrupting the class too much while allowing people to just heal, dps or provide alac with the current traits as they are with out shoehorning it into something that doesnt feel good to play. I do hope that people consider this option as its the only way im seeing that will really allow the class to do what people want and we already know they can update the trait to allow finishers considering that is the route they took with scrapper alac trait.

So after looking at several threads and reactions for a lot of people I have a suggestion to change how boon application can be done WHILE preserving class identity and also allowing for the suggested changes anet has put forth. Two main classes that i think will be able to benefit from this potential change are Scrapper and Druid. Right now scrapper feels good for the most part, i know alot of people dont like the overall change but for the most part i feel that anet is going in the right direction at least for how they are choosing how to apply boons. Some people want a bit more flexibility on HOW they can apply these boons. [&BwQIAAA=] kinetic accelerators allows you to currently apply quickness based on completing blast or leap finishers. This is good, however this might be better. I feel that this should allow you to ALSO use whirl finishers that already exist with in the current toolkits. Considering that we will eventually be able to get more allowed weapons this will adjust how this class plays thinking of when scrapper eventually gets access to sword leap skills. For now this is close but not quite there. Once we get to the fix of HOW to apply the boons, the number can be adjusted once we get that far. Proposed changes to DRUID. Right now the changes to how druid interacts feels like how old prepatch quick boon herald played. Spam the buttons to do the quickness. Considering that herald got changed I propose the following changes to how druid applies alac. Right now the play style is pretty much use celestial and spam all the abilities until you get kicked out, wait for the cool down and do it again. This is pretty much a feels bad way to accomplish alac application. Taking scrappers trait into consideration it should be possible to change the trait to instead of requiring celestial abilities to simply require blast or leap finishers. Considering that this will still require the alac trait in druid, this will also reduce the spammy mash all buttons current play style. We know that its possible because scrapper has the trait, we also know that there is a lot of leap or blast finishers already baked into the class mechanics, This will also free up the celestial cool down for healing responsive purposes while still being a class choice and allowing the class to do what it needs to do, WHEN it needs to do it. Numbers on how much alac can always be adjusted, but the main purpose is to adjust the class feeling and get away from the feels bad spam to provide boons that no one really likes to do as it eliminates payer choice. Considering we know alternate weapon choices are coming, this seems like the superior way to update druid at least if not allow for scrapper additional flexibility.

I honestly think they need to address how the specific classes apply the boons in question I think they are close to preserving scapper identity, they just need to finalize how the boon application happens, I would say keep the trait, just include blast finishers, leaps and whirls as these are already in the kit and adjust how much they provide. This might actually be a GREAT solution for druid feels bad high apm gameplay right now. Maybe change the trait to apply ALAC based on blast and leap finishers and let people keep celestial for when they actually need it. The ranger class has loads of leaps and blast finishers already baked in, they just need to adjust how the boon application works. Im sure the other classes that feel better like warrior or rev work on a similar principal, play the class and apply the boons for playing it a certain way for the most part. WE know they can do it based on how scrapper works, they just need to adjust the numbers more.

So we all agree that using utilities or button mashing as a way to give anything feels bad. so scrapper changes have given me an idea on how we can maybe change classes that require high apm or button mashing that we dont want to allow the class to perform. Scrapper boon application relies on a trait and a few key items such as application of finishers from the class kit, using key abilities is a great change however it just needs a bit more tweaks, knowing that we will be getting advanced weapon mastery which would allow a lot more diversity in the future, you will notice that some weapons have baked in finishers already. my point being that if they can tweak the trait and include maybe some additional finishers and adjust the default boon times, this will allow better flexibility in how the boons get applied. Same can be said for alac druid, the trait currently feels bad with tying it being in celestial stance, maybe change to trait to require the druid to leap or blast finish as this is ALREADY included with in a lot of skills. The goal would be similar to applying the class being required, however it WOULD free up the class mechanic to actually be used when required and NOT spammed which no one likes. I feel that this would go a long way to preserving the class identity and freeing up the need for spamming skills with a solution that we know is possible considering another class has it technically implemented. I would say that herald has this feel implemented as its moved away from needing to button mash beyond playing the class, some numbers need to be tweaked and fixed but the class feels a lot better to play. Have yet to play warriors but apparently they apply the boons as part of their rotation anyways which feels superior than just button mashing utilities. Hope fully some one tries this change to see if we have a viable solution to resolving the no skill button mashing that no one likes.

I think that reducing the internal cool down for swapping into celestial avatar might make a difference to the feel and might alleviate the concern of NOT having access to celestial avatar when its really needed. Or they could change the trait that gives alac to proc off something else, like combo finishers , say for example leaps and blast finishers? there is a lot of those with in the class tool kit, you wouldnt have to just use the spirits as blast finishers

Remember they stated they wanted to bring consistency to the weapon, I would rather have two leaps+ as you can use this for engaging and disengaging, the sword before always felt janky to me, and confusing to use in most content types. Now we have some fast movement and decent pairing of combo fields that you have access to as a ranger in most cases. For me the change feels good and wouldnt suggest to revert it.

I would also note that we have some new weapons we will be getting access to soon, like for example sword, this might pair well with healscrapper changes, right not it might feel janky, due to us not having all the "new" weapons currently. Im starting to think anet has planned ahead with new changes, it just feels bad right now as we dont really have ALL the things yet. These changes arent permanent, so i think people giving feed back is a good thing.

Can we maybe allow the quickness application to apply based on blast finishers or whirl finishers... Or if blast finishers only, allow any person with in the groups that triggers the blast finisher to ALSO allow for the trait to trigger (with maybe an internal cool down) This would potentially allow extra sources to be applied and the only thing the scrapper would have to track is making sure they have combo fields up at all times, which the class really allows anyways in most kits, and make sure they keep up blast finishers for that boon application, would also allow for other classes that also have blast finishers to help keep that boon up.

I agree that the change for the cool down is a valid change, would like either this to be changed by increasing the range and SHOWING if with in range on the SKILLS to allow you to see before you trigger, or allowing a short cool down window like a few seconds to allow for the mech being outside of the short range we get. Over all the cool down mechanic is ok as a trade off, its just a bit restrictive as it currently is.

so the main issue im seeing is that, take heal scrapper, what weapon set do you use for healing. most people run pistol shield, while hammer can be used its not optimal as you lose out on being able to provide protection and cleanses, which also help. you dont really use hammer as your default weapon considering what the class means to do. Being forced to spam skills isnt really allowing for much choice. Something that i was contemplating is allowing the application for this class to trigger on either blast finishers or whirl finishers . Or keep blast finishers and allow either the scrapper or any other class you are grouped with to trigger the trait (with a internal cool down for others to trigger it if triggering too much) , this would technically allow for your group to help upkeep the boon application and allow more flexibility for the group. As in most content most fields are prioritized by their own class, and others will use them if they dont have their own fields up.. so potentially it might not be over capping the boon application with that change... but this would allow a somewhat consistent way to apply boons, just tracking field applications and would allow a somewhat different less jarring playstyle that keeps with the spirit of what this most recent change has accomplished.