BlaqueFyre.5678

The point is: people aren't any worse or better because they play WvW; they're still people with human foibles and failings. Helping people move out of their comfort zone is hard on the mover and the mentor. Regardless, ANet's decided that they want active WvW participation to be a component of making a legendary. And there remain several options for those who are new to the game mode: learn it for real, push through it (as you & your friend did), do the PvE-style dailies, or do just the Big Spender daily, with the time varying from 6-12 hours at the short end, to a few months, with two years being the worst case scenario for someone who just can't do it. Another possibility is paying someone 400g for supplying the gifts of battle/exploration/dungeon. I want to clarify a point: I never said or implied that I thought people are better or worse because they play WvW. I don't think that at all. People like to play their preferred game mode and after 5+ years a few of them are less tolerant of new players. I have no issue with the players in WvW and have seen similar behavior in PvE (and never implied that it doesn't happen here either), but my post wasn't about PvE - it was about my most recent experience in WvW. I disagree with ANet's strategy about trying to force players to play outside of their preferred game mode in the hopes that maybe they will like it an continue playing. But ultimately it's ANet's game and they make the rules. All I can do is try to influence their decisions through posts like this.There is nothing wrong about making certain things tied specifically to individual gamemodes, it has been this way since the creation of the game, and even then there has always been a way(after WvW was deleted from GoE) to cut out playing one of those gamemodes completely ie Never having to participate in WvW to acquire GoB, players not wanting to participate in WvW and still acquire the GoB can do that, but in all honestly it is less hassle and headache to spend less than 4.3 hrs in WvW to acquire it than going the pure PvE route.

No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that. And you are not doing the same? Nope. No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did. Let me walk you through the differences. Asking for raids - which by the way I didn't participate in, as I wasn't even actively playing GW2 back then - is asking for new content. This doesn't change any existing rules, it simply asks for the game to expand.Current demands are nothing like that. They don't seek to expand the game as such, they seek to create shortcuts to existing rewards. Wanna know what a fair "easy mode" would be? Collection to get an unique armor skin of ascended quality which is not the Envoy one. No LIs, no magnetite shards, no gaething crystals, no guaranteed exotic (remains as possible drop), severely reduced chances for ascended drops, reduced gold per completed encounter. That would be expanding the game - although I'd argue about how meaningful it would be - and that would be fair. I haven't seen a single person ask for that. All I see is "we're OK with reduced rewards, as long as we're able to get everything without the effort required". Shortcuts. Still think it's the same? Actually you would be wrong.. because I did ask for that.. just Legendary Tier as opposed to Ascended. In fact, there was a whole series of topics about Other Paths to Legendary Gear, that I think got merged somewhere, maybe even with this one. And the raiders cried that it would not be fair. Because it wouldn't. You want the same tier of rewards for considerably less effort? Get real. How is memorizing a scripted encounter in one kind of content any different then memorizing a scripted encounter in another kind of content? As I recall many of you have all said.. PvE is PvE.. ergo it should all reward the same.Each Gamemode has its one path to Legendary Gear, PvE has one WvW has one and sPvP has one, if players don’t participate in the one path to said reward why should they new rewarded with it? Again players can play a Unranked all they want, it won’t get them any closer to sPvP’s Legendary Armor, and the Same with Players that Play EotM it’s WvW but doesn’t provide them with the WvW Legendary Armor, Raids are PvE and is the PvE path to the PvE Legendary sorry that the facts are so cut and dry.

WvW is open world PvP in which you can solo or form groups of any size that fits on the map, roaming around, completing events, conquering objectives, and fighting enemies that you come across. sPvP is small group PvP in which you pre-form a part of 5, enter an instance, and fight against a specific challenge (another team of 5), with a pass/fail outcome. You still get a few points for just trying. Open world PvE is open world PvE in which you can solo or form groups of any size that fits on the map, roaming around, completing events, conquering objectives, and fighting enemies that you come across. Raids are small group PvE in which you pre-form a part of 10, enter an instance, and fight against a specific challenge (a boss), with a pass/fail outcome. You still get a few points for just trying. There are differences between all four, but the differences between WvW and sPvP are smaller than the differences between raids and open world PvE. Oh really sPvP so similar to WvW, I can take any armor/Build in WvW and have the exact mirror in WvW right? Can also have all the buffs from WvW in PvP right? The layouts are the same right? Oh so basic gamemode mechanics and design match across the board in both the WvW and Ranked sPvP right? Oh wait they don’t, that’s right.... let’s not get into the fact the are hosted in different Server space abide by almost completely different set of rules, or any of those extremely obvious key differences. But in PvE and Raids there are no differences like that, oh yeah you said it right their Raids are PvE.. so every game mode has a way to get Legendary armors, sPvP has theirs, WvW has their and oh yeah PvE has their way of getting it, remember Raids are PvE no matter what you believe them not to be. Do we have to go over what a Gamemode is? Well anyway have a goodnight I’m heading to sleep!

Just as WvW is PvP no matter how hard you try. The only reason that you imagine there to be a barrier between WvW and PvP is because they both existed when the game was launched, and the devs said there was a difference. Both are still more similar to each other within the "PvP space" than raiding and non-raiding are within the "PvE space." There is a huge difference go look at the differences in objectives Rules, Fundamental gameplay differences, etc. WvW is not in anyway shape or form the same as sPvP. And again no matter how hard you try or believe it to be so Raids are PvE in every single sense of the words. I see what the problem is clearly again just because you say something isn’t what it is doesn’t make it true, the Devs and Creators of the game state Raids are PvE

And raids are very different from the rest of PvE. You have fixed 10 player limits, weekly reward lockouts, plenty of elements that are unique to within raids. The devs may believe that raids are just another part of PvE, but if so, they would be wrong. Devs created the game and determine what content is what, Sorry Raids are PvE can’t deny it no matter how hard you try, it’s like if someone tries to say Ranked sPvP isn’t sPvP, or EotM isn’t WvW( funfact they are)

I’m just p> @Ohoni.6057 said: No, it's like saying that WvW isn't a part of PvP. And PvPers don't have to WvW to get Legendary armor, likewise, PvEers shouldn't have to raid. Sorry but Raids are PvE. So PvErs only have you PvE. Doesn’t matter if you don’t want to believe it or not but Raids are PvE content. sPvP and WvW are completely different Gameodes with completely different rule sets That are applied universally within those gamemodes respectively, just like how PvE is with Raids. Direct quote from Devs about Raid Release, “Raids are our answer to what skilled PvE players have to look forward to “

No, that wasn't "fixing" anything, that was removing the primary point of it. That would be like if I said "2+2=4" and you said "2+3=4, fixed it for you!" There's no difference between ranked and unranked, beyond that other players are more likely to get salty if you aren't any good at it. Raids are no more a part of PvE than WvW is a part of PvP. Raids are PvE content in a theoretical sense, just as WvW is PvP content in that same sense, but it is a very specific niche within the PvE portion of the game, just as WvW is a specific niche within PvP. If both WvW and PvP get armors, non-raiding PvE should as well. Most skins that can be earned in PvE can also be earned in PvP and WvW, at the very least bought off the TP using currency earned from those modes. I'd be interested in seeing a list of skin that's completely impossible to collect without leaving the mists. In either case, it's not a numbers game, it's about whether or not you have the one that you want. If they provide you 99 options, and hold off 1, then that's still an issue if you prefer that 1 to the 99 options you were offered. Again, if you don't feel that I am justified in caring about not having access to the Envoy skins, then obviously you would not be justified in caring that I can't have them. Either you feel that it's important that non-raiders never have access to Envoy skins, or you feel that non-raiders shouldn't be allowed to care that they can't have access to Envoy skins, you can't hold both positions at once and claim intellectual consistency. Trying to Say Raids isn’t PvE is like tryin to Say Ranked PvP isn’t apart of PvP or that EB isn’t a part of WvW.... No way around it PvErs only have to PvE to get Legendary Armor, they don’t have to do WvW or PvP to obtain Envoy Armor

And how long do you expect that to take for someone who doesn't raid? Nothing. Just raid. How much time do you expect to take to get the legen pvp armor for someone who doesn't play pvp. How much to get the wvw legen armor for someone who doesn't play wvw? How much to get the funerary armor for someone who does not play pve? Nothing. Because every set is tied and meant for a different type of content, so pvp is only for pvp, wvw is only for wvw and raids are only for raids. But you can just play PvP to get the PvP armor, you can just WvW to get the WvW armor. To get the only armor in PvE, you have to PvE, even if raiding is something you don't enjoy at all. If the argument is to be made that "raid armor is the PvE armor, then there needs to be a PvE method of earning it that doesn't involve raiding. Fixed it for you. To get PvE Armor all players need to do is PvE, the similar to how WvW players only have to WvW and PvP players PvP.... /thread

Raids are PvE so Pver’s have access to Legendary Armor, on top of All Gen 2 Legendary Weapons, why should they get more options when it’s currently balanced across game modes on Legendary Armor Access. Why don’t PvErs get over their selfishness of wanting everything handed to them. Oh see what I did there?

No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that. And you are not doing the same? Nope. No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did. No, no content was changed, Anet provided players with New content, big difference there... just saying it’s kinda common sense, unless your comment is referring to something different than Raids being Added into the game. Lets see, CM's and More Fractals were added, as well as changes to them to make more difficult.. that counts as a change. Also.. fussing "Oh it's all too easy" is still crying.This thread is about Raids not Fractals or CMs so can’t lump those in with this just saying, but I gotta nderstand when arguments fail gotta reach!!

No. That has absolutely nothing to do with the example being discussed. Except it is exactly the same. There are set rules for acquiring stuff. You want stuff, you don't like rules, so you want the rules changed. Some ego you have, I'll give you that. And you are not doing the same? Nope. No.. it's what you did.. you didn't like the current content and cried incessantly that it needed to change.. So.. yah.. looks like it's exactly what you did.No, no content was changed, Anet provided players with New content, big difference there... just saying it’s kinda common sense, unless your comment is referring to something different than Raids being Added into the game.

Yes you do, plenty of people complain about that, including a current thread where someone requested to get GoE entirely through a wvw reward track. I say the same thing here that I said there : to earn a leg, you have to do at least some of every game mode. Keep the 3 mode-oriented gifts as they are. If I had to suffer through hours and hours of PvP (which I hate), you can handle the Gift of Battle, and wvw-specialists can handle GoE. If we only had to do game content we thoroughly enjoyed to get a leg, they'd be a dime a dozen and not worthy of the name. Post a link to that thread, since that would be a first instead of someone using it as a rebuttal to all the whiners wanting GoB without doing the Required content. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36856/reward-tracks-are-still-dull#latest Item #2, requesting to get GoE via reward tracks because he hates PvE.There is actually nothing about GoE in that point, RC to stronk...

They did, they have a warning of a couple months before they removed it.... just saying

Yes you do, plenty of people complain about that, including a current thread where someone requested to get GoE entirely through a wvw reward track. I say the same thing here that I said there : to earn a leg, you have to do at least some of every game mode. Keep the 3 mode-oriented gifts as they are. If I had to suffer through hours and hours of PvP (which I hate), you can handle the Gift of Battle, and wvw-specialists can handle GoE. If we only had to do game content we thoroughly enjoyed to get a leg, they'd be a dime a dozen and not worthy of the name. Post a link to that thread, since that would be a first instead of someone using it as a rebuttal to all the whiners wanting GoB without doing the Required content.

That would be a bit impossible. Even with max points per tick, and bonuses from Diamond chest track, it should be around 6h. Still, not long. Quick math shows that it takes 4.2hrs with full boosters before participation bonus it capped at 4.5hrs.

Gift of Battle is already extremely easy to get, it takes anywhere between 4-8 hrs of casual gameplay to acquire, it doesn’t need to be any easier to achieve, you don’t even have to fight players to achieve it in those 4-8hr. How do you think people feel about GoE? It takes over 20+ hrs of PvE but you don’t see those people that hate PvE complaining. Also fun fact you can get GoB without ever having to leave Spawn just saying, but don’t expect that to be done in a timely manner, you want it in a reasonable amount of time? Do the gamemode that provides it, want to get it in a manner not intended? It’s going to be a long haul.

Remove Energy Costs on Weapons, balance Weapon CDs accordingly, Rebalance Utilities Costs, provide each legend with a decent Condi Cleanse, add a new legend for Core Rev that is a General Legend or lack there That provides a general/balanced load out can have it synerize with Invocation Traitline. Here’s the big one Fix all the bugs and make UA and PS single Target, also how come those two skills don’t track in stealth like every other skil cast before a player enters Stealth they should fix that or make all other skills not track in Stealth if Cast prior to target entering Stealth, for Parities sake.

I play less than 2-3hrs of WvW a night and max out the WvW chests, have acquired full precursor of WvW heavy armor for my Revenant in less than 2 months and WvW provides all the crafting materials needed, Again the Math proves it takes less than 2 months of average casual play to acquire full Ascended Armor in WvW, let’s not forget that almost everything needed to acquire WvW Ascended can be bought on the TP except tickets. A three Character acronym explains the issue.

You can get full Ascended without ever having to leave WvW. And it doesn’t take that long, and once someone has a set of Ascended Armor they can either upgrade it to Legendary, or Just statswap it to another Stat set. If players want Standardized gear Anet made them a gamemode specifically designed around just that and it’s not WvW. Doesn't have to be "Standardized" (I think you mean what sPvP have). And, yes takes very long time as it is now, I need 1 year to get a full set or longer even, but I doubt that is possible without leaving WvW.If someone plays WvW semi regularly it takes less than than Two months to acquire Ascended armor all within WvW since WvW provides everything needed to acquire Ascended Armor, this is a fact and simple math proves its. Let’s look at the facts for a full set of Ascended Armor it takes a measley 2620 WvW Skirmish Tickets, Players can get 365 tickets per week and it doesn’t take much to max out tickets in a week.

You can get full Ascended without ever having to leave WvW. And it doesn’t take that long, and once someone has a set of Ascended Armor they can either upgrade it to Legendary, or Just statswap it to another Stat set. If players want Standardized gear Anet made them a gamemode specifically designed around just that and it’s not WvW.

So.... this format would allow someone to mix maurauders and grieving and soldiers into the same build? While allowing same person to slowly reduce the soldiers to add more maurauders in? There IS a standardized system. It's called the stats WvW uses.... which is all of them. Nope would take it allll away, because the inflated and mixable stats aren't very balanced and they were never intend to be on small scale.But if people are going to complain x, y, and z, is OP on that flawed criteria might as well impose amulets so it can be restricted and controlled like they obviously want it to be.If certain players want Standardized Stats and builds and zero build diversity Anet provided them a Gamemode completely designed around that since the beginning of the game. Just saying.

This... I have 4 Ascended pieces, 2 Legendary, Legendary weaps and Ascended trinkets all with infusions. I really look good. They will not keep you alive much longer than Exotic if you don't have situational awareness!!! yes they will, believe it or not They will? You've stated you don't have them, yet you know they will keep you alive longer... I had fully ascended before the recent meta change.Fun fact your full Ascended doesn’t magically disappear when Meta changes and Stat swap is a thing that is extremely cheap.

It’s called have those guilds/players join an Alliance/Guild in an alliance to stick together... Except that's highly unlikely to work. How many serious guilds will want derby roamed and BL monitors in their alliances? Alliances will mostly be used by fight guilds stacking together or PPT guilds stacking together.Well if they don’t actually want to stay together and actively try to then what’s the issue? Oh right there isn’t one because the Alliance system addresses those issues, those players that want to stick together can form their own alliance, they don’t have to be beholden to another person to make the alliance and accept them in.wow what a Concept.

It changes nothing, all it does is allow players to select that guild as their primary WvW Guild so when the Worlds reshuffle they stay together. It changes nothing else.

It’s called have those guilds/players join an Alliance/Guild in an alliance to stick together...