BlaqueFyre.5678

Skins and armor/weapons aren’t used for pvp they are just nice to haves that’s different and again it’s lowest cost gold sink for a game mode which the game gives an absurd amount of liquid gold no matter if you win or lose

I was just stating why the there was a large difference in acquisition times, and that it’s not only just time for one of the methods some players wont put in the effort to do the things to acquire the faster method. Just because a community is making it accessible to people doesn’t mean the effort is less it just makes organizing it easier, you can’t just Essentially afk you have to prepare gear and food and learn every mechanic and complete the content repeatedly WvW and Pvp you just run around solo and do small things like capture camps and sentries and you can get full participation at anytime and essentially afk till the timer starts to degrade and pvp you can lose every match and still acquire the legendary set.

These acquisition times are due to the amount of effort needed to acquire, Raids/CM Strikes take a large amount of effort and preparation to acquire than WvW/PvP legendary armors.

But you get unmitigated liquid gold just for play even if you lose there has to be some form of gold sink for pvp and it is the cheapest gold sink in the entire game and they refund you the cost if they ever remove the items

Each game mode has separate time limits for getting the rewards WvW is 22 weeks at the fastest Pvp is approximately 26 weeks at the fastest, and Raids w/ CM strikes is 5 weeks. The difference here is Raids w/strikes takes a lot more effort to acquire, having to coordinate to get enough people to do the content, having to prepare and learn the mechanics of each encounter, having to gear up for the encounters, learn roles and rotations etc. In wvw and pvp you don’t have to do any of those things and you can get the Legendary by running purely solo and doing things in Rare gear and don’t have to fight a single person in WvW in Pvp you can literally AFK and get the rewards and lose every match

Most likely this since they went back to make Aurene Legos purchasable on the TP, when they made a point to make the Gen 2 Legos BoA

Depends if they want thief to be anything other than a hit and run class, whether they do remains to be seen. I noticed my phone has been autocorrecting nerfing to needing..

I don’t normally agree wholeheartedly with Swagger but they are spot on with this post.

The only “unfair” Issues on range are some weapon skills are listed as 1200 or 1500 but hit from much further away than other skills with ranges listed as 1200 or 1500, where some “1200” range skills hitting from further than other skills listed as “1500”

I think that Anet needs to reevaluate a lot of the Initiative costs across all Thief weapons and skills, they have been extremely heavy handed when nerfing the skills themselves and increasing the resource costs.

If "mes are fine" why nobobody uses mirage again? Since the big nerf I've never seen one in pvp wvw. Never. Even mesmer and thief mains are saying that if they could play something else at the same level they would. Having said that if sustain nerfs come in to the over performers then all the classes will be in a strong position. Also everyone seems to think these classes don't have aspects that are too strong or will be too strong soon. Mesmer and War both have a lot of CC on too low a cool down/without investment and thief portal is borderline game breaking without mentioning insane stealth uptime still. Mesmer also still has mantra of pain being insane and there's a lot more that is simply all over the place, broken but kept in balance by the relative weakness of everything else making it more of a mess-mer class. Still those are tomorrow's problems not today's. mantra of pain become hot garbage the moment you no longer can 1shot people.Mantra is enabler, there is nothing to enable so it is not usefull. Vulnerability is something power mirage gets from 1 ambush, there is no reason to use mantra its another dead utility.Power mesmer used to counter FB/necro, yesterday I couldnt get afking necro from the node, my entire GS combo was putting less dent into necro HP then his necro auto did to me, mesmer is burst and combo oriented class, the moment combo and bursts no longer do their role is the moment mesmer becomes hot poo poo. Mantra giving 12 stacks of might is not good, you can come up with as many excuses as you want but we both know it's a badly designed mantra and should be changed as mesmer doesn't need more front loaded damage.This, things need to be toned down, before giving any buffs. After toning the few outliers down to acceptable levels then reevaluate if anything needs to be tweaked further either in the way of needs or slight buffs accordingly. The arms race has to stop.

Remember folks, if the player is doing well it’s always skill, if they are doing poorly it’s ermergherd Matchmaker is rigged!!!!! It’s rare for certain people to accept responsibility or acknowledge that the issue most likely is themselves, and will place the blame on anything but.

Mechanically it doesn't work. Thematically it doesn't work either. You guys are ignoring some glaring flaws. The Revenant's mechanic is actually very very anti synergistic with the mechanics that the Ritualist would demand. Urns, Spirits and spirit weapons. None of it mechaniclly would be sound without a complete redesign of the revenant profession. Thematically it doesn't work either. Revenant is a Martial profession. Ritualist is a spell caster/ritual dancer. Dancing in heavy armor isn't impossible, but it doesn't offer the freedom or range of movement that cloth does. This is the reason that you take penalties in D&D as a caster for wearing plat. You need special training to be able to handle that. Because spells and incantations typically require some sort of ritualistic dance. Which is emphasized and exaggerated with the ritualist. Because the Revenant used the magic of the legends to self enhance their own magical and physical abilities and borrow their magic they are more akin to A death knight or dark knight. Which do have an ability called Revenant btw. Because of course they would. Revenant just means "the returned" usually from the dead. Which is a major theme of the death knight. Magic is both more and less linear than it is in GW2. In a lot of ways, its less in others its more. Shamans in D&D do use necromancer, as do Warlocks, Wizards, Sorcerers, Death knights, you get the point. Hopefully. But the defining factors of the ritualist can't work. Even as I'm conceptualizing it i'm working my damnedest to be sure to include internal synergy while keeping the theme intact. Its not only difficult, it might be impossible. Mechanically its an even bigger issue than just the flavor of the ritualist being a dance. You can't have the Utility be spirits unless you want Kalla 2.0 and that doesn't feel anything like a ritualist. You could make it so the spirits persist when you legend swap but then that is basically doubling up on power which means they would need to be nerfed into the ground. And they couldn't have a turn over skill to help expand on the desired flavor. Or you have turn over skills on the spirits and then they function how they should but now you have a problem that unless you want to get the full benefit out of it you need to ignore the revenant's primary mechanic of legend swapping. But the issues don't end there because you are then limited to just 5 spirits as opposed to 6 which means you have to be even more selective about what must go in. You can't fill out the Defensive theme because then your offensive one will be lacking. And you can't fill out your offensive theme because the defensive one will be lacking. You could make spirits a part of the F bar but now you're hard locked into a max of 4, which makes them even Less intuitive than before. You could try putting spirits on the F bar, utility and weapons but then you lack room for weapon spells, urns and the healing element which is required for this sort of spec. No matter what you do the design of spirits suffers unless you hyper focus it into a very linear path and then it would only be able to execute one type of Ritualist build and have no room to expand outward like the ritualist did. So no urn builds, no Deadly weapons builds, no healer builds. You shoehorn one aspect into it. And the suggestions from Revevant players I've seen are so overwhelmingly lacking as a Ritualist spec and every single one of them has all over the above problems. And no one has offered a solution that doesn't completely change the mechanics and theme of the revenant. Urns are another problem since they are supposed to act as kits in GW2. You could make them Auras I suppose, but that creates another problem. How would the Urn be any different than what Glint is supposed to provide? And having them as actual kits creates profession bloat. Skill swap, weapon swap on top of a set of kits? This is what we call profession bloat and the closest to that is Engineer and there is a reason its currently the second least popular class. And part of it is because of how bloated its mechanic is. Urns would either take up design space already given to the revenant making neither spec unique or contribute to profession bloat. In either case its an absolute terrible fit for the revenant. Thematically, it doesn't work because of the Martial nature of the Revenant. If its martial behavior wasn't an issue the Guardian could be just as good of a choice. And Mechanically it doesn't work because of how specific the revenant's mechanics are and how their skills, traits and mechanic works. And trust me, I've been trying to figure out how it could work for years! I've been considering this topic since the revenant's introduction. I predicted that Revenant wouldn't get ritualist for the first expansion because of these glaring issues and again predicted that revenant wouldn't get ritualist in PoF. But boy did Anet try, and Renegade as cool as it is, its "spirits" are the most clumsy part of the whole elite spec. And I like Renegade! But the Spirits cast too slow and their impact is minor compared to what ritualist spirits would need to be. And that's exactly what you'd get all over again. Renegade wants to actively be using its skills and Ritualist isn't that class. They are slow, methodical, calculated and have few skill strikes with huge impact. More akin to what the necromancer does now than anything else. Side note: Before HoT came out I made a post on the forums about necromancer stating rather bluntly "Death shroud is a mechanic I'd have expected to see on something like a Ritualist, not a necromancer."....... True story, I've complained a lot about Death shroud... Partially because its a mechanic better suited for ritualist and not so much necromancer. But here we are with the perfect mechanic for a ritualist on the necromancer already. Both of them are death mages and both call spirits. And both have strong parallels with each other. Clearly the obvious choice is necromancer. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to actually go back and play ritualist in GW1. Not just the SoS build. No. The Urns build, the healers, the protective spirits, the weapon spells. Everything in its theme is something that the necromancer community wants and needs for their profession. And Nothing the ritualist has to offer isn't already achieved in another way on revenant. The Necromancer community is starving for a healer spec! A proper healer spec! Revenant has it. Necromancer is starving for party support! Revenant has it in spades. So you need to ask yourself. Not just does it work thematically(it doesn't but we'll pretend for a moment it does) but what does it offer mechanically? Because the answer is very clear that it doesn't offer anything mechanically to the revenant that they need. Sorry but Anet already decided the Revenant is the spiritual successor of Ritualist hence why so many direct parallels and them giving Revenant the Champions Ritualist Title, their Iconic Blindfold and an extremely similar Class Icon on top of actually communing with figures from the Mists and Channelimg them to provide them with Spells and abilities, maybe actually play the game instead of trying to shoehorn a fanfic of Necromancer being Ritualists, and it’s easy to give them “kits” aka Urns, as shown by the Fskills that don’t have anything to do with Swapping legends.... You see, you see Similarities with them. And I see a couple but nothing that isn't Superficial. And their Icon doesn't look like an Eye to me. More like someone looking onto a horizon. They're not as similar as you claim. The Ritualist title is just a nod to the GW1 profession. It doesn't confirm a similarity. Guardian has paragon I believe and those two classes have more differences than similarities. Same is true for revenant. And Also You keep moving the goal post which Is why I have no interest in talking with you. You say "They don't use spirits" I show you using spirits and interacting with them on an intimate level. You then say "No, they're not channeling them." I show you how the necromancer connects with the underworld and realm of torment, calling forth otherworldly energies and you say "But those aren't exactly spirits." What you are doing is intentionally trying to make it more and more specific to the point that NO ONE actually fits that description. Its called moving the goal post. It is a logical fallacy. And its not constructive to the conversation. Even the people who agree with you don't agree that the Necromancer and Ritualist have nothing in common. Similarities that are direct parallels and Roy Chrochner even said the Revenant class icon is an Eye, and the use of the Blindfold is used for the exact same reason as the Ritualist....... It’s not superficial when the class actually channels figures from the Mists for its spells and abilities, and Actually communes with those figures from the Mists.... and Anet gave them the Ritualist title which you can’t get by playin any other class.... Again stretching to try and block out the truth, Anet made the Revenant the spiritual successor of the Ritualist, and everything points to it. Again, the Spiritual successor is the Engineer... This has been common knowledge since Launch. Oh really? Do Engineers commune with figures from the Mists? Do they channel those figures to gain their spells and abilities? Do they have a class title referring to the Ritualist? Do they share an iconic armor piece for the exact same reason? Do they share a similar class icon? No? Right because Anet made Revenant have all those things, and made it the spiritual successor. No matter how much certain people close their eyes and ears and yell no. The Blindfold wasn't an Iconic Armor piece of the Ritualist. It was common armor in GW1. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blindfold The head dressing was used in GW1 to better focus their senses. But they didn't need it to maintain that connection. The way their animations worked was that they would close their eyes during casting to better commune with them. Yes this is a parallel. But its not Unique to the Ritualist. Channeling magic in GW1 suggests that the freedom of motion is required. Each of the Casters in GW1 were extremely animate in the way they moved. Ritualist was the most animate. Engineer is the successor. Mechanically. Thematically its broken up across professions. Including but not limited to Necromancer, Guardian and Revenant. This was confirmed in an interview. ALSO there was a massive Stink over the Revenant being added into the game because it absolutely TRAMPLED over necromancer's theme. It was a massive complaint in the Necromancer forums. I like Revenant, I do. I like Ritualists. They are not the same thing. They have similarities, but nothing that isn't superficial.If the Blindfold wasn’t an iconic armor piece of the Ritualist then why is one of the first things in the classes class description on why they hood their eyes? Thematically it is Revenant being the spiritual successor they have the most direct parallels to Ritualist, and again Anet gave only that class the title of Ritualist, they took the Theme of Ritualist Channeling Spirits from the Mists to provide their spells and abilities and mechanically gave that to Revenant, the theme of Ritualists Communing with spirits of the Mists, Revenants actually talk to the figures they Channel, Revenants can summon spirits to assist them in combat, Revenants also are a support class to empower allies. Then there’s the class icon and the Blindfold used for the exact same reason as the Ritualist. In Gw2 There is no other class that channel figures from the Mists and Communes with them, and no other class was given the Ritualist title..... And please where is that interview, if it’s on the Internet it’s still there, it sounds like another claim with nothing to back it.

Mechanically it doesn't work. Thematically it doesn't work either. You guys are ignoring some glaring flaws. The Revenant's mechanic is actually very very anti synergistic with the mechanics that the Ritualist would demand. Urns, Spirits and spirit weapons. None of it mechaniclly would be sound without a complete redesign of the revenant profession. Thematically it doesn't work either. Revenant is a Martial profession. Ritualist is a spell caster/ritual dancer. Dancing in heavy armor isn't impossible, but it doesn't offer the freedom or range of movement that cloth does. This is the reason that you take penalties in D&D as a caster for wearing plat. You need special training to be able to handle that. Because spells and incantations typically require some sort of ritualistic dance. Which is emphasized and exaggerated with the ritualist. Because the Revenant used the magic of the legends to self enhance their own magical and physical abilities and borrow their magic they are more akin to A death knight or dark knight. Which do have an ability called Revenant btw. Because of course they would. Revenant just means "the returned" usually from the dead. Which is a major theme of the death knight. Magic is both more and less linear than it is in GW2. In a lot of ways, its less in others its more. Shamans in D&D do use necromancer, as do Warlocks, Wizards, Sorcerers, Death knights, you get the point. Hopefully. But the defining factors of the ritualist can't work. Even as I'm conceptualizing it i'm working my damnedest to be sure to include internal synergy while keeping the theme intact. Its not only difficult, it might be impossible. Mechanically its an even bigger issue than just the flavor of the ritualist being a dance. You can't have the Utility be spirits unless you want Kalla 2.0 and that doesn't feel anything like a ritualist. You could make it so the spirits persist when you legend swap but then that is basically doubling up on power which means they would need to be nerfed into the ground. And they couldn't have a turn over skill to help expand on the desired flavor. Or you have turn over skills on the spirits and then they function how they should but now you have a problem that unless you want to get the full benefit out of it you need to ignore the revenant's primary mechanic of legend swapping. But the issues don't end there because you are then limited to just 5 spirits as opposed to 6 which means you have to be even more selective about what must go in. You can't fill out the Defensive theme because then your offensive one will be lacking. And you can't fill out your offensive theme because the defensive one will be lacking. You could make spirits a part of the F bar but now you're hard locked into a max of 4, which makes them even Less intuitive than before. You could try putting spirits on the F bar, utility and weapons but then you lack room for weapon spells, urns and the healing element which is required for this sort of spec. No matter what you do the design of spirits suffers unless you hyper focus it into a very linear path and then it would only be able to execute one type of Ritualist build and have no room to expand outward like the ritualist did. So no urn builds, no Deadly weapons builds, no healer builds. You shoehorn one aspect into it. And the suggestions from Revevant players I've seen are so overwhelmingly lacking as a Ritualist spec and every single one of them has all over the above problems. And no one has offered a solution that doesn't completely change the mechanics and theme of the revenant. Urns are another problem since they are supposed to act as kits in GW2. You could make them Auras I suppose, but that creates another problem. How would the Urn be any different than what Glint is supposed to provide? And having them as actual kits creates profession bloat. Skill swap, weapon swap on top of a set of kits? This is what we call profession bloat and the closest to that is Engineer and there is a reason its currently the second least popular class. And part of it is because of how bloated its mechanic is. Urns would either take up design space already given to the revenant making neither spec unique or contribute to profession bloat. In either case its an absolute terrible fit for the revenant. Thematically, it doesn't work because of the Martial nature of the Revenant. If its martial behavior wasn't an issue the Guardian could be just as good of a choice. And Mechanically it doesn't work because of how specific the revenant's mechanics are and how their skills, traits and mechanic works. And trust me, I've been trying to figure out how it could work for years! I've been considering this topic since the revenant's introduction. I predicted that Revenant wouldn't get ritualist for the first expansion because of these glaring issues and again predicted that revenant wouldn't get ritualist in PoF. But boy did Anet try, and Renegade as cool as it is, its "spirits" are the most clumsy part of the whole elite spec. And I like Renegade! But the Spirits cast too slow and their impact is minor compared to what ritualist spirits would need to be. And that's exactly what you'd get all over again. Renegade wants to actively be using its skills and Ritualist isn't that class. They are slow, methodical, calculated and have few skill strikes with huge impact. More akin to what the necromancer does now than anything else. Side note: Before HoT came out I made a post on the forums about necromancer stating rather bluntly "Death shroud is a mechanic I'd have expected to see on something like a Ritualist, not a necromancer."....... True story, I've complained a lot about Death shroud... Partially because its a mechanic better suited for ritualist and not so much necromancer. But here we are with the perfect mechanic for a ritualist on the necromancer already. Both of them are death mages and both call spirits. And both have strong parallels with each other. Clearly the obvious choice is necromancer. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to actually go back and play ritualist in GW1. Not just the SoS build. No. The Urns build, the healers, the protective spirits, the weapon spells. Everything in its theme is something that the necromancer community wants and needs for their profession. And Nothing the ritualist has to offer isn't already achieved in another way on revenant. The Necromancer community is starving for a healer spec! A proper healer spec! Revenant has it. Necromancer is starving for party support! Revenant has it in spades. So you need to ask yourself. Not just does it work thematically(it doesn't but we'll pretend for a moment it does) but what does it offer mechanically? Because the answer is very clear that it doesn't offer anything mechanically to the revenant that they need. Sorry but Anet already decided the Revenant is the spiritual successor of Ritualist hence why so many direct parallels and them giving Revenant the Champions Ritualist Title, their Iconic Blindfold and an extremely similar Class Icon on top of actually communing with figures from the Mists and Channelimg them to provide them with Spells and abilities, maybe actually play the game instead of trying to shoehorn a fanfic of Necromancer being Ritualists, and it’s easy to give them “kits” aka Urns, as shown by the Fskills that don’t have anything to do with Swapping legends.... You see, you see Similarities with them. And I see a couple but nothing that isn't Superficial. And their Icon doesn't look like an Eye to me. More like someone looking onto a horizon. They're not as similar as you claim. The Ritualist title is just a nod to the GW1 profession. It doesn't confirm a similarity. Guardian has paragon I believe and those two classes have more differences than similarities. Same is true for revenant. And Also You keep moving the goal post which Is why I have no interest in talking with you. You say "They don't use spirits" I show you using spirits and interacting with them on an intimate level. You then say "No, they're not channeling them." I show you how the necromancer connects with the underworld and realm of torment, calling forth otherworldly energies and you say "But those aren't exactly spirits." What you are doing is intentionally trying to make it more and more specific to the point that NO ONE actually fits that description. Its called moving the goal post. It is a logical fallacy. And its not constructive to the conversation. Even the people who agree with you don't agree that the Necromancer and Ritualist have nothing in common. Similarities that are direct parallels and Roy Chrochner even said the Revenant class icon is an Eye, and the use of the Blindfold is used for the exact same reason as the Ritualist....... It’s not superficial when the class actually channels figures from the Mists for its spells and abilities, and Actually communes with those figures from the Mists.... and Anet gave them the Ritualist title which you can’t get by playin any other class.... Again stretching to try and block out the truth, Anet made the Revenant the spiritual successor of the Ritualist, and everything points to it. Again, the Spiritual successor is the Engineer... This has been common knowledge since Launch.Oh really? Do Engineers commune with figures from the Mists? Do they channel those figures to gain their spells and abilities? Do they have a class title referring to the Ritualist? Do they share an iconic armor piece for the exact same reason? Do they share a similar class icon? No? Right because Anet made Revenant have all those things, and made it the spiritual successor. No matter how much certain people close their eyes and ears and yell no.

Mechanically it doesn't work. Thematically it doesn't work either. You guys are ignoring some glaring flaws. The Revenant's mechanic is actually very very anti synergistic with the mechanics that the Ritualist would demand. Urns, Spirits and spirit weapons. None of it mechaniclly would be sound without a complete redesign of the revenant profession. Thematically it doesn't work either. Revenant is a Martial profession. Ritualist is a spell caster/ritual dancer. Dancing in heavy armor isn't impossible, but it doesn't offer the freedom or range of movement that cloth does. This is the reason that you take penalties in D&D as a caster for wearing plat. You need special training to be able to handle that. Because spells and incantations typically require some sort of ritualistic dance. Which is emphasized and exaggerated with the ritualist. Because the Revenant used the magic of the legends to self enhance their own magical and physical abilities and borrow their magic they are more akin to A death knight or dark knight. Which do have an ability called Revenant btw. Because of course they would. Revenant just means "the returned" usually from the dead. Which is a major theme of the death knight. Magic is both more and less linear than it is in GW2. In a lot of ways, its less in others its more. Shamans in D&D do use necromancer, as do Warlocks, Wizards, Sorcerers, Death knights, you get the point. Hopefully. But the defining factors of the ritualist can't work. Even as I'm conceptualizing it i'm working my damnedest to be sure to include internal synergy while keeping the theme intact. Its not only difficult, it might be impossible. Mechanically its an even bigger issue than just the flavor of the ritualist being a dance. You can't have the Utility be spirits unless you want Kalla 2.0 and that doesn't feel anything like a ritualist. You could make it so the spirits persist when you legend swap but then that is basically doubling up on power which means they would need to be nerfed into the ground. And they couldn't have a turn over skill to help expand on the desired flavor. Or you have turn over skills on the spirits and then they function how they should but now you have a problem that unless you want to get the full benefit out of it you need to ignore the revenant's primary mechanic of legend swapping. But the issues don't end there because you are then limited to just 5 spirits as opposed to 6 which means you have to be even more selective about what must go in. You can't fill out the Defensive theme because then your offensive one will be lacking. And you can't fill out your offensive theme because the defensive one will be lacking. You could make spirits a part of the F bar but now you're hard locked into a max of 4, which makes them even Less intuitive than before. You could try putting spirits on the F bar, utility and weapons but then you lack room for weapon spells, urns and the healing element which is required for this sort of spec. No matter what you do the design of spirits suffers unless you hyper focus it into a very linear path and then it would only be able to execute one type of Ritualist build and have no room to expand outward like the ritualist did. So no urn builds, no Deadly weapons builds, no healer builds. You shoehorn one aspect into it. And the suggestions from Revevant players I've seen are so overwhelmingly lacking as a Ritualist spec and every single one of them has all over the above problems. And no one has offered a solution that doesn't completely change the mechanics and theme of the revenant. Urns are another problem since they are supposed to act as kits in GW2. You could make them Auras I suppose, but that creates another problem. How would the Urn be any different than what Glint is supposed to provide? And having them as actual kits creates profession bloat. Skill swap, weapon swap on top of a set of kits? This is what we call profession bloat and the closest to that is Engineer and there is a reason its currently the second least popular class. And part of it is because of how bloated its mechanic is. Urns would either take up design space already given to the revenant making neither spec unique or contribute to profession bloat. In either case its an absolute terrible fit for the revenant. Thematically, it doesn't work because of the Martial nature of the Revenant. If its martial behavior wasn't an issue the Guardian could be just as good of a choice. And Mechanically it doesn't work because of how specific the revenant's mechanics are and how their skills, traits and mechanic works. And trust me, I've been trying to figure out how it could work for years! I've been considering this topic since the revenant's introduction. I predicted that Revenant wouldn't get ritualist for the first expansion because of these glaring issues and again predicted that revenant wouldn't get ritualist in PoF. But boy did Anet try, and Renegade as cool as it is, its "spirits" are the most clumsy part of the whole elite spec. And I like Renegade! But the Spirits cast too slow and their impact is minor compared to what ritualist spirits would need to be. And that's exactly what you'd get all over again. Renegade wants to actively be using its skills and Ritualist isn't that class. They are slow, methodical, calculated and have few skill strikes with huge impact. More akin to what the necromancer does now than anything else. Side note: Before HoT came out I made a post on the forums about necromancer stating rather bluntly "Death shroud is a mechanic I'd have expected to see on something like a Ritualist, not a necromancer."....... True story, I've complained a lot about Death shroud... Partially because its a mechanic better suited for ritualist and not so much necromancer. But here we are with the perfect mechanic for a ritualist on the necromancer already. Both of them are death mages and both call spirits. And both have strong parallels with each other. Clearly the obvious choice is necromancer. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to actually go back and play ritualist in GW1. Not just the SoS build. No. The Urns build, the healers, the protective spirits, the weapon spells. Everything in its theme is something that the necromancer community wants and needs for their profession. And Nothing the ritualist has to offer isn't already achieved in another way on revenant. The Necromancer community is starving for a healer spec! A proper healer spec! Revenant has it. Necromancer is starving for party support! Revenant has it in spades. So you need to ask yourself. Not just does it work thematically(it doesn't but we'll pretend for a moment it does) but what does it offer mechanically? Because the answer is very clear that it doesn't offer anything mechanically to the revenant that they need. Sorry but Anet already decided the Revenant is the spiritual successor of Ritualist hence why so many direct parallels and them giving Revenant the Champions Ritualist Title, their Iconic Blindfold and an extremely similar Class Icon on top of actually communing with figures from the Mists and Channelimg them to provide them with Spells and abilities, maybe actually play the game instead of trying to shoehorn a fanfic of Necromancer being Ritualists, and it’s easy to give them “kits” aka Urns, as shown by the Fskills that don’t have anything to do with Swapping legends.... You see, you see Similarities with them. And I see a couple but nothing that isn't Superficial. And their Icon doesn't look like an Eye to me. More like someone looking onto a horizon. They're not as similar as you claim. The Ritualist title is just a nod to the GW1 profession. It doesn't confirm a similarity. Guardian has paragon I believe and those two classes have more differences than similarities. Same is true for revenant. And Also You keep moving the goal post which Is why I have no interest in talking with you. You say "They don't use spirits" I show you using spirits and interacting with them on an intimate level. You then say "No, they're not channeling them." I show you how the necromancer connects with the underworld and realm of torment, calling forth otherworldly energies and you say "But those aren't exactly spirits." What you are doing is intentionally trying to make it more and more specific to the point that NO ONE actually fits that description. Its called moving the goal post. It is a logical fallacy. And its not constructive to the conversation. Even the people who agree with you don't agree that the Necromancer and Ritualist have nothing in common.Similarities that are direct parallels and Roy Chrochner even said the Revenant class icon is an Eye, and the use of the Blindfold is used for the exact same reason as the Ritualist....... It’s not superficial when the class actually channels figures from the Mists for its spells and abilities, and Actually communes with those figures from the Mists.... and Anet gave them the Ritualist title which you can’t get by playin any other class.... Again stretching to try and block out the truth, Anet made the Revenant the spiritual successor of the Ritualist, and everything points to it.

Mechanically it doesn't work. Thematically it doesn't work either. You guys are ignoring some glaring flaws. The Revenant's mechanic is actually very very anti synergistic with the mechanics that the Ritualist would demand. Urns, Spirits and spirit weapons. None of it mechaniclly would be sound without a complete redesign of the revenant profession. Thematically it doesn't work either. Revenant is a Martial profession. Ritualist is a spell caster/ritual dancer. Dancing in heavy armor isn't impossible, but it doesn't offer the freedom or range of movement that cloth does. This is the reason that you take penalties in D&D as a caster for wearing plat. You need special training to be able to handle that. Because spells and incantations typically require some sort of ritualistic dance. Which is emphasized and exaggerated with the ritualist. Because the Revenant used the magic of the legends to self enhance their own magical and physical abilities and borrow their magic they are more akin to A death knight or dark knight. Which do have an ability called Revenant btw. Because of course they would. Revenant just means "the returned" usually from the dead. Which is a major theme of the death knight. Magic is both more and less linear than it is in GW2. In a lot of ways, its less in others its more. Shamans in D&D do use necromancer, as do Warlocks, Wizards, Sorcerers, Death knights, you get the point. Hopefully. But the defining factors of the ritualist can't work. Even as I'm conceptualizing it i'm working my damnedest to be sure to include internal synergy while keeping the theme intact. Its not only difficult, it might be impossible. Mechanically its an even bigger issue than just the flavor of the ritualist being a dance. You can't have the Utility be spirits unless you want Kalla 2.0 and that doesn't feel anything like a ritualist. You could make it so the spirits persist when you legend swap but then that is basically doubling up on power which means they would need to be nerfed into the ground. And they couldn't have a turn over skill to help expand on the desired flavor. Or you have turn over skills on the spirits and then they function how they should but now you have a problem that unless you want to get the full benefit out of it you need to ignore the revenant's primary mechanic of legend swapping. But the issues don't end there because you are then limited to just 5 spirits as opposed to 6 which means you have to be even more selective about what must go in. You can't fill out the Defensive theme because then your offensive one will be lacking. And you can't fill out your offensive theme because the defensive one will be lacking. You could make spirits a part of the F bar but now you're hard locked into a max of 4, which makes them even Less intuitive than before. You could try putting spirits on the F bar, utility and weapons but then you lack room for weapon spells, urns and the healing element which is required for this sort of spec. No matter what you do the design of spirits suffers unless you hyper focus it into a very linear path and then it would only be able to execute one type of Ritualist build and have no room to expand outward like the ritualist did. So no urn builds, no Deadly weapons builds, no healer builds. You shoehorn one aspect into it. And the suggestions from Revevant players I've seen are so overwhelmingly lacking as a Ritualist spec and every single one of them has all over the above problems. And no one has offered a solution that doesn't completely change the mechanics and theme of the revenant. Urns are another problem since they are supposed to act as kits in GW2. You could make them Auras I suppose, but that creates another problem. How would the Urn be any different than what Glint is supposed to provide? And having them as actual kits creates profession bloat. Skill swap, weapon swap on top of a set of kits? This is what we call profession bloat and the closest to that is Engineer and there is a reason its currently the second least popular class. And part of it is because of how bloated its mechanic is. Urns would either take up design space already given to the revenant making neither spec unique or contribute to profession bloat. In either case its an absolute terrible fit for the revenant. Thematically, it doesn't work because of the Martial nature of the Revenant. If its martial behavior wasn't an issue the Guardian could be just as good of a choice. And Mechanically it doesn't work because of how specific the revenant's mechanics are and how their skills, traits and mechanic works. And trust me, I've been trying to figure out how it could work for years! I've been considering this topic since the revenant's introduction. I predicted that Revenant wouldn't get ritualist for the first expansion because of these glaring issues and again predicted that revenant wouldn't get ritualist in PoF. But boy did Anet try, and Renegade as cool as it is, its "spirits" are the most clumsy part of the whole elite spec. And I like Renegade! But the Spirits cast too slow and their impact is minor compared to what ritualist spirits would need to be. And that's exactly what you'd get all over again. Renegade wants to actively be using its skills and Ritualist isn't that class. They are slow, methodical, calculated and have few skill strikes with huge impact. More akin to what the necromancer does now than anything else. Side note: Before HoT came out I made a post on the forums about necromancer stating rather bluntly "Death shroud is a mechanic I'd have expected to see on something like a Ritualist, not a necromancer."....... True story, I've complained a lot about Death shroud... Partially because its a mechanic better suited for ritualist and not so much necromancer. But here we are with the perfect mechanic for a ritualist on the necromancer already. Both of them are death mages and both call spirits. And both have strong parallels with each other. Clearly the obvious choice is necromancer. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to actually go back and play ritualist in GW1. Not just the SoS build. No. The Urns build, the healers, the protective spirits, the weapon spells. Everything in its theme is something that the necromancer community wants and needs for their profession. And Nothing the ritualist has to offer isn't already achieved in another way on revenant. The Necromancer community is starving for a healer spec! A proper healer spec! Revenant has it. Necromancer is starving for party support! Revenant has it in spades. So you need to ask yourself. Not just does it work thematically(it doesn't but we'll pretend for a moment it does) but what does it offer mechanically? Because the answer is very clear that it doesn't offer anything mechanically to the revenant that they need. Sorry but Anet already decided the Revenant is the spiritual successor of Ritualist hence why so many direct parallels and them giving Revenant the Champions Ritualist Title, their Iconic Blindfold and an extremely similar Class Icon on top of actually communing with figures from the Mists and Channelimg them to provide them with Spells and abilities, maybe actually play the game instead of trying to shoehorn a fanfic of Necromancer being Ritualists, and it’s easy to give them “kits” aka Urns, as shown by the Fskills that don’t have anything to do with Swapping legends....

Kinda like how Shiro and Mallyx taunt us and demand that we release them? By communing with the channeled spirits that provide me with their skills and abilities ingame to boot.

I'm Sure some devs do. But The successor of the Ritualist was the engineer, not the Revenant. I mentioned that in my first post and this has been mentioned multiple times in interviews with them. Ritualist was designed as "How can we make a gadget tech user without gadgets and tech?" sort of idea. And ritualist was born. So when it came time for GW2 they actually made the profession they wanted to make in the first place. I never claimed the Necromancer was the successor. No, I always knew it was the engineer. Most people do. The Title in PvP was just supposed to be cute. It wasn't supposed to mean anything. Revenant could never become a ritualist. The Ritualist also did use magic in the lore. Its also hard to ignore that a good chunk of their spell designations were spells or the fact that they used restoration magic. The lore states that the Binding rituals themselves are not magic, but the urns, weapons and other spells absolutely are. But in the lore its stated that the Ritualist really took the use of magic after the gods gave it to them (according to human lore) very well and used it to make their practice more potent and reliable. In terms of what Archetype the ritualist actually is? The Ritualist is a shaman. Which mechanically the engineer is still most similar. Thematically the Necromancer is. The revenant thematically is more of a death knight. Which does have cross over with necromancer... Ironically. Thematically Revenant has more similar to Ritualist than a Necromancer ever will or are you going to completely ignore that ingame and in lore Revenants actually Channel the Spirits Of long Dead Legends from the Mists to provides their spells/abilities, actually Commune with those spirits, use the Blindfolds for the exact same reasons, summon spirits to assist them and others, a similar class icon, and they have the Ritualist Title for PvP. There isn’t nearly as many if any actual direct parallels between Necromancer and Ritualist. Mechanically yes Engineer was the closest on some mechanics originally. And the only reason Revenant is a Heavy Armor Martial class is because Rytlock was a Warrior and he is the first Revenant, so the other Revenants follow suit and that’s why Revenant is called a Revenant and not Ritualist, because of that evolved distinction, and Rytlock learned his Magic from the Spirits Of the Mists. You're mistaken. They channel legends from the Mists. No where does it say those legends have to be dead. They just need to currently need to be a part of the mists. You're limited the scope of the revenant way too much. And No one actually agrees with you on the Parallels with Necromancer and ritualist. Its just a headcanon of yours. Since in GW1 there was. Visually, Skills, everything. For gods sake, many of their skills have direct parallels in both classes. AND I can prove that very easily. More easily than it is looking for a 6 year old interview.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Painhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Painful_Bondhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Bloodhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Spirithttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Soul_Feasthttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feast_of_Soulshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_Undeathhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spiritleech_Aura https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/LamentationOH hey, look! It cares about corpses. Well dang! That was a bonus I didn't expect to find! That's just in GW1. There clearly was a massive parallel between the two classes in that their only real difference is one dealt in the physical bodies while the other dealth in the spirit. But GW2 doesn't have that distinction. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doomhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Doom Tainted Shackles is strikingly similar to Binding chains.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackleshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains They also have an entire skill line based in spirit energies.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral Now lets look at all the naming conventions and traits that have anything to do with Spirits and such.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_Boon One... ONE! Well, with all the "Revenant is ritualist" nonsense you've been spouting I'd expect a lot more than that. And that doesn't even have a GW1 corresponding skill. And just mentioning spirits isn't enough because Ranger mentions Nature spirits and so does Guardian. In fact, the guardian has more in common with Ritualist. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_weaponhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wrathful_Spirit But if we're going to include Spirit Boon its only fair to include necromancer's spiteful spirit The fact you can look at all the evidence and ignore all of it tells me A, you're trolling, or B you have such a strong cognitive bias toward Revenant that you can't admit that you're wrong based on pride. I already did admit that Revenant, Ritualist and Necromancer all share things in common. But you can't even seed that ground because it would ruin your flimsy argument. Every single one of those “Legends” are dead and they are communing with their spirits and hammering the spirits, and no none of what I said are head canon, they are literal direct parallels no matter how much to disagree otherwise. And spiteful spirit isn’t a spirit it’s a hex.... common senses tells that. And it doesn’t say that they summon a spirit or channel a spirit to get the effect, do you need the definition of what a hex is? Again show me where Anet explicitly states that Necromancer Channels spirits to grant them abilities or Communes with spirits, oh wait you won’t find anything. The “Spectral” skills are not them channeling spirits literally it’s about taking life force from living characters and using that or assuming a spectral form or becoming a lich. Again a large stretch. The bias is extremely clear and it’s from you wanting to shoe horn Necromancer as a Ritualist when they are based non Necromancer from the original game. While I’m looking at this objectively from the plethora of actual provided statements and in game lore/mechanics. Show direct parallels of Gw2 Necromancer mirroring Ritualist. Remember I said direct parallels, not stretches of imagination. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Strawhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marjory%27s_Story:_The_Last_Straw Read it. Again and again and again! Once you're done go away because you clearly have such a major bias that you can't see past your own nose. I'm done talking with you.Again none of those say communing from the Mists or channeling from the Mists, literally the boy died right next to her and never moved on to the Mists like a lot of spirit in game that never moved on and everyone can interact with...Those are a desperate stretch to shorhorn the Necromancer as a ritualist.

I'm Sure some devs do. But The successor of the Ritualist was the engineer, not the Revenant. I mentioned that in my first post and this has been mentioned multiple times in interviews with them. Ritualist was designed as "How can we make a gadget tech user without gadgets and tech?" sort of idea. And ritualist was born. So when it came time for GW2 they actually made the profession they wanted to make in the first place. I never claimed the Necromancer was the successor. No, I always knew it was the engineer. Most people do. The Title in PvP was just supposed to be cute. It wasn't supposed to mean anything. Revenant could never become a ritualist. The Ritualist also did use magic in the lore. Its also hard to ignore that a good chunk of their spell designations were spells or the fact that they used restoration magic. The lore states that the Binding rituals themselves are not magic, but the urns, weapons and other spells absolutely are. But in the lore its stated that the Ritualist really took the use of magic after the gods gave it to them (according to human lore) very well and used it to make their practice more potent and reliable. In terms of what Archetype the ritualist actually is? The Ritualist is a shaman. Which mechanically the engineer is still most similar. Thematically the Necromancer is. The revenant thematically is more of a death knight. Which does have cross over with necromancer... Ironically. Thematically Revenant has more similar to Ritualist than a Necromancer ever will or are you going to completely ignore that ingame and in lore Revenants actually Channel the Spirits Of long Dead Legends from the Mists to provides their spells/abilities, actually Commune with those spirits, use the Blindfolds for the exact same reasons, summon spirits to assist them and others, a similar class icon, and they have the Ritualist Title for PvP. There isn’t nearly as many if any actual direct parallels between Necromancer and Ritualist. Mechanically yes Engineer was the closest on some mechanics originally. And the only reason Revenant is a Heavy Armor Martial class is because Rytlock was a Warrior and he is the first Revenant, so the other Revenants follow suit and that’s why Revenant is called a Revenant and not Ritualist, because of that evolved distinction, and Rytlock learned his Magic from the Spirits Of the Mists. You're mistaken. They channel legends from the Mists. No where does it say those legends have to be dead. They just need to currently need to be a part of the mists. You're limited the scope of the revenant way too much. And No one actually agrees with you on the Parallels with Necromancer and ritualist. Its just a headcanon of yours. Since in GW1 there was. Visually, Skills, everything. For gods sake, many of their skills have direct parallels in both classes. AND I can prove that very easily. More easily than it is looking for a 6 year old interview.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Painhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Painful_Bondhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Bloodhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Spirithttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Soul_Feasthttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feast_of_Soulshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_Undeathhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spiritleech_Aura https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/LamentationOH hey, look! It cares about corpses. Well dang! That was a bonus I didn't expect to find! That's just in GW1. There clearly was a massive parallel between the two classes in that their only real difference is one dealt in the physical bodies while the other dealth in the spirit. But GW2 doesn't have that distinction. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doomhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Doom Tainted Shackles is strikingly similar to Binding chains.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackleshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains They also have an entire skill line based in spirit energies.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral Now lets look at all the naming conventions and traits that have anything to do with Spirits and such.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_Boon One... ONE! Well, with all the "Revenant is ritualist" nonsense you've been spouting I'd expect a lot more than that. And that doesn't even have a GW1 corresponding skill. And just mentioning spirits isn't enough because Ranger mentions Nature spirits and so does Guardian. In fact, the guardian has more in common with Ritualist. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_weaponhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wrathful_Spirit But if we're going to include Spirit Boon its only fair to include necromancer's spiteful spirit The fact you can look at all the evidence and ignore all of it tells me A, you're trolling, or B you have such a strong cognitive bias toward Revenant that you can't admit that you're wrong based on pride. I already did admit that Revenant, Ritualist and Necromancer all share things in common. But you can't even seed that ground because it would ruin your flimsy argument. Every single one of those “Legends” are dead and they are communing with their spirits and hammering the spirits, and no none of what I said are head canon, they are literal direct parallels no matter how much to disagree otherwise. And spiteful spirit isn’t a spirit it’s a hex.... common senses tells that. And it doesn’t say that they summon a spirit or channel a spirit to get the effect, do you need the definition of what a hex is? Again show me where Anet explicitly states that Necromancer Channels spirits to grant them abilities or Communes with spirits, oh wait you won’t find anything. The “Spectral” skills are not them channeling spirits literally it’s about taking life force from living characters and using that or assuming a spectral form or becoming a lich. Again a large stretch. The bias is extremely clear and it’s from you wanting to shoe horn Necromancer as a Ritualist when they are based non Necromancer from the original game. While I’m looking at this objectively from the plethora of actual provided statements and in game lore/mechanics. Show direct parallels of Gw2 Necromancer mirroring Ritualist. Remember I said direct parallels, not stretches of imagination. I showed you countless times. We're done with this conversation. I'm ignoring you now since You can't seed any ground at all even when I've explicitly gave you dozens of links showing that fact.You have not give any links from Anet that says Gw2 Necromancer channel Spirits from the Mist to provide their spells/abilities or that they commune with the spirits from the Mists(I can show ingame that Revenant does both of those), you have provided links to your stretches of imagination that you want to be true. I have provided direct parallels of Revenant to Ritualist (see above), and Anet even bestowed the Champions Ritualist title to players that play Revenant in PvP, they didn’t give that title to Necromancers. Again provide the direct parallels, I will wait, but I already know the outcome.

I'm Sure some devs do. But The successor of the Ritualist was the engineer, not the Revenant. I mentioned that in my first post and this has been mentioned multiple times in interviews with them. Ritualist was designed as "How can we make a gadget tech user without gadgets and tech?" sort of idea. And ritualist was born. So when it came time for GW2 they actually made the profession they wanted to make in the first place. I never claimed the Necromancer was the successor. No, I always knew it was the engineer. Most people do. The Title in PvP was just supposed to be cute. It wasn't supposed to mean anything. Revenant could never become a ritualist. The Ritualist also did use magic in the lore. Its also hard to ignore that a good chunk of their spell designations were spells or the fact that they used restoration magic. The lore states that the Binding rituals themselves are not magic, but the urns, weapons and other spells absolutely are. But in the lore its stated that the Ritualist really took the use of magic after the gods gave it to them (according to human lore) very well and used it to make their practice more potent and reliable. In terms of what Archetype the ritualist actually is? The Ritualist is a shaman. Which mechanically the engineer is still most similar. Thematically the Necromancer is. The revenant thematically is more of a death knight. Which does have cross over with necromancer... Ironically. Thematically Revenant has more similar to Ritualist than a Necromancer ever will or are you going to completely ignore that ingame and in lore Revenants actually Channel the Spirits Of long Dead Legends from the Mists to provides their spells/abilities, actually Commune with those spirits, use the Blindfolds for the exact same reasons, summon spirits to assist them and others, a similar class icon, and they have the Ritualist Title for PvP. There isn’t nearly as many if any actual direct parallels between Necromancer and Ritualist. Mechanically yes Engineer was the closest on some mechanics originally. And the only reason Revenant is a Heavy Armor Martial class is because Rytlock was a Warrior and he is the first Revenant, so the other Revenants follow suit and that’s why Revenant is called a Revenant and not Ritualist, because of that evolved distinction, and Rytlock learned his Magic from the Spirits Of the Mists. You're mistaken. They channel legends from the Mists. No where does it say those legends have to be dead. They just need to currently need to be a part of the mists. You're limited the scope of the revenant way too much. And No one actually agrees with you on the Parallels with Necromancer and ritualist. Its just a headcanon of yours. Since in GW1 there was. Visually, Skills, everything. For gods sake, many of their skills have direct parallels in both classes. AND I can prove that very easily. More easily than it is looking for a 6 year old interview.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Painhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Painful_Bondhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Bloodhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Offering_of_Spirithttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Soul_Feasthttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feast_of_Soulshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_Undeathhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Spiritleech_Aura https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/LamentationOH hey, look! It cares about corpses. Well dang! That was a bonus I didn't expect to find! That's just in GW1. There clearly was a massive parallel between the two classes in that their only real difference is one dealt in the physical bodies while the other dealth in the spirit. But GW2 doesn't have that distinction. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Doomhttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Doom Tainted Shackles is strikingly similar to Binding chains.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tainted_Shackleshttps://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains They also have an entire skill line based in spirit energies.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral Now lets look at all the naming conventions and traits that have anything to do with Spirits and such.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_Boon One... ONE! Well, with all the "Revenant is ritualist" nonsense you've been spouting I'd expect a lot more than that. And that doesn't even have a GW1 corresponding skill. And just mentioning spirits isn't enough because Ranger mentions Nature spirits and so does Guardian. In fact, the guardian has more in common with Ritualist. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_weaponhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wrathful_Spirit But if we're going to include Spirit Boon its only fair to include necromancer's spiteful spirit The fact you can look at all the evidence and ignore all of it tells me A, you're trolling, or B you have such a strong cognitive bias toward Revenant that you can't admit that you're wrong based on pride. I already did admit that Revenant, Ritualist and Necromancer all share things in common. But you can't even seed that ground because it would ruin your flimsy argument.Every single one of those “Legends” are dead and they are communing with their spirits and hammering the spirits, and no none of what I said are head canon, they are literal direct parallels no matter how much to disagree otherwise. And spiteful spirit isn’t a spirit it’s a hex.... common senses tells that. And it doesn’t say that they summon a spirit or channel a spirit to get the effect, do you need the definition of what a hex is? Again show me where Anet explicitly states that Necromancer Channels spirits to grant them abilities or Communes with spirits, oh wait you won’t find anything. The “Spectral” skills are not them channeling spirits literally it’s about taking life force from living characters and using that or assuming a spectral form or becoming a lich. Again a large stretch. The bias is extremely clear and it’s from you wanting to shoe horn Necromancer as a Ritualist when they are based non Necromancer from the original game. While I’m looking at this objectively from the plethora of actual provided statements and in game lore/mechanics. Show direct parallels of Gw2 Necromancer mirroring Ritualist. Remember I said direct parallels, not stretches of imagination.

I'm Sure some devs do. But The successor of the Ritualist was the engineer, not the Revenant. I mentioned that in my first post and this has been mentioned multiple times in interviews with them. Ritualist was designed as "How can we make a gadget tech user without gadgets and tech?" sort of idea. And ritualist was born. So when it came time for GW2 they actually made the profession they wanted to make in the first place. I never claimed the Necromancer was the successor. No, I always knew it was the engineer. Most people do. The Title in PvP was just supposed to be cute. It wasn't supposed to mean anything. Revenant could never become a ritualist. The Ritualist also did use magic in the lore. Its also hard to ignore that a good chunk of their spell designations were spells or the fact that they used restoration magic. The lore states that the Binding rituals themselves are not magic, but the urns, weapons and other spells absolutely are. But in the lore its stated that the Ritualist really took the use of magic after the gods gave it to them (according to human lore) very well and used it to make their practice more potent and reliable. In terms of what Archetype the ritualist actually is? The Ritualist is a shaman. Which mechanically the engineer is still most similar. Thematically the Necromancer is. The revenant thematically is more of a death knight. Which does have cross over with necromancer... Ironically. Thematically Revenant has more similar to Ritualist than a Necromancer ever will or are you going to completely ignore that ingame and in lore Revenants actually Channel the Spirits Of long Dead Legends from the Mists to provides their spells/abilities, actually Commune with those spirits, use the Blindfolds for the exact same reasons, summon spirits to assist them and others, a similar class icon, and they have the Ritualist Title for PvP. There isn’t nearly as many if any actual direct parallels between Necromancer and Ritualist. Mechanically yes Engineer was the closest on some mechanics originally. And the only reason Revenant is a Heavy Armor Martial class is because Rytlock was a Warrior and he is the first Revenant, so the other Revenants follow suit and that’s why Revenant is called a Revenant and not Ritualist, because of that evolved distinction, and Rytlock learned his Magic from the Spirits Of the Mists.

The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing. And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies. And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits. For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1. They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic.. The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail. The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them... And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr... For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds. I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name. Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do. They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t. Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong. Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies. Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells. Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic. Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that. Actually They do. It's in the names of their skills. Spiteful spirit was a pretty popular one in gw1. You have your proof all over the game. You're just ignoring it. Blatantly for no reason other than a rev bias. Also I said I believe. Trying to find a minor comment back in 2012 would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Which they did talk about the ritualist being assimilated into other professions. Primarily necromancer and some guarding and a bit for ranger and maybe elementalist. Also to channel something is to direct towards something or some place. So yes, summoning is channeling. Summoning isn’t channeling morning the slightest, I can summon someone to me that doesn’t mean that I am handling that person. Again stretching. Are they channeling that spirit to fuel their spells? No. And Spiteful spirit is a hex not a spirit, and hexes are essentially curses.... again stretching. Channeling and communing Let’s look at what Revenant has that matches Ritualist.Channel Legends(aka spirits) from the Mists to Power their spells/abilitiesCommuning with the spirits from the Mist(Revenants actually hold conversations with the Legends that they are channeling.)Use Blindfolds to help focus/channel from the MistsClass symbol is extremely similar (its and Eye just like Ritualist’s)Can summon members of Kalla’s Warband with Renegade(essentially spirits from the Mists.)Empower allies with the powers granted by the Legends(aka spirits) Let’s look what Necromancer has....... Right. They don’t Do any of those things. TLDR Both Thematically and Mechanically Revenants are the spiritual successor of Ritualists, there is no way around that, they channel long gone figures of the past to grant them spells and abilities, they commune with those Legends of the past, they can summon spirits, they can empower allies with the abilities granted by the Legends, they share the same signature blindfold for the same reasons as the Ritualists, they have a similar class icon as the Ritualist. You clearly have never played gw1. I doubt you've played necro or the personal story either otherwise there is no way you'd make these claims. But welcome to the game! Lulz making claims and assumptions again, yes I played Gw1 and yes I have played Necro, I have played every class except Engi, again where’s the proof to back up your claims on Necro Channeling Spirits from the Mists to bestow Abilities and fuel their abilities, or Communing with the spirits from the Mists, or that Necromancer is more closely tied to Ritualist, it does none of those things listed above Necromancer is based on Necromancer, that’s it not on Ritualist. Their is a large handful of direct parallels from Ritualist to Revenant: Actually Channel Spirits from the Mists to bestow spells and abilitiesActually Commune with those spirits from the Mists Actually summon spirits to aid in combatActually empower allies with the powers granted by the spiritsShare the same iconic Blindfold for the exact same reasonShare a class icon which is an eyeAnd these are all things in game for both the Players and Npc Revenant..... Again both Thematically and Mechanically Revenant is the spiritual successor to Ritualist. Again I will wait for the direct parallels and proof.

The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing. And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies. And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits. For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1. They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic.. The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail. The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them... And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr... For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds. I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name. Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do. They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t. Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong. Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies. Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells. Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic. Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that. Actually They do. It's in the names of their skills. Spiteful spirit was a pretty popular one in gw1. You have your proof all over the game. You're just ignoring it. Blatantly for no reason other than a rev bias. Also I said I believe. Trying to find a minor comment back in 2012 would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Which they did talk about the ritualist being assimilated into other professions. Primarily necromancer and some guarding and a bit for ranger and maybe elementalist. Also to channel something is to direct towards something or some place. So yes, summoning is channeling.Summoning isn’t channeling morning the slightest, I can summon someone to me that doesn’t mean that I am handling that person. Again stretching. Are they channeling that spirit to fuel their spells? No. And Spiteful spirit is a hex not a spirit, and hexes are essentially curses.... again stretching. Channeling and communing Let’s look at what Revenant has that matches Ritualist. Channel Legends(aka spirits) from the Mists to Power their spells/abilitiesCommuning with the spirits from the Mist(Revenants actually hold conversations with the Legends that they are channeling.)Use Blindfolds to help focus/channel from the MistsClass symbol is extremely similar (its and Eye just like Ritualist’s)Can summon members of Kalla’s Warband with Renegade(essentially spirits from the Mists.)Empower allies with the powers granted by the Legends(aka spirits)Let’s look what Necromancer has. ......Right. They don’t Do any of those things. TLDR Both Thematically and Mechanically Revenants are the spiritual successor of Ritualists, there is no way around that, they channel long gone figures of the past to grant them spells and abilities, they commune with those Legends of the past, they can summon spirits, they can empower allies with the abilities granted by the Legends, they share the same signature blindfold for the same reasons as the Ritualists, they have a similar class icon as the Ritualist.

The revenant does not perform rituals in the way they are described in game. The revenant isn't a priest and no revenant has become a priest. They don't honor their ancestors. The revenant channels legends of the mists much like the dervish channels the power of the gods. Both revenant and necromancer does commune with the mists. But the you are limiting their scope a bit too much by comparing them.m to ritualist. The ritualist only communes with spirits of the underworld and realm of torment. Which the necromancer currently does. The necromancer does channel sprits. The revenant borrows knowledge from the legends they channel as well as magic. And lose that magic and seems to lose their unique knowledge when they release them. The revenant isn't limited to the dead. We have this suggested in the story but its possible they could channel living legends trapped in the mists or even legends of the future. The revenant also uses their own body as the medium. Something the ritualist does not do nor would they ever do it. The revenant also is a martial profession. And their identity is centered around using the legends to enhance their own performance. Like a dervish does with God magic. Ritualist and necromancer are both capable of this to a lesser extent but they don't maintain the identity of the spirits they absorb. The revenant has effectively perfected a single spell. They have very poor magic abilities aside from that one spell. Canonically the necromancer performs all the rights and rultiuals the ritualist would be doing. And to help further drive the point home. https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/White_Mantle_Ritualist Sorry but the name of that NPC doesn’t drive home the point since it clearly states that the Npc can be one of 4 professions and the Necromancer is one of them and why it has Necromancer skills listed and not Ritualist skills and it even states that they aren’t the ritual profession from prophecies. And dervishes assume an avatar of a god not channel it, while Revenants channel spirits. For a profession that supposedly doesn't have anything in common with the necromancer they sure talk about death and harnessing the power of death a lot.... I'm reading some quotes from Ritualist NPCs from GW1. They channel spirits which are from the dead, so yeah they would talk about the dead, but they aren’t using death magic..... Necromancers don’t do that, they Reanimate corpses and exploit those while using Death Magic.. The necromancer absolutely does channel spirits. This is cannon. It happens in the personal story. Hell, Trahearne does it right next to you. And if you actually read Last straw Marjory channels a spirit of a young boy to help her solve his murder. You can't say you've read the links if you've overlooked that major detail. The little boy wasn’t being channeled... that’s like saying anyone that interacts with the spirits of Ascalon are channeling them... And Traeherne wasn’t channelinng spirits he channels the magic of Orr when he performed the spell that cleansed the waters of Orr... For someone that says they know the lore has some gaps and leaps and bounds. I wasn't talking about that part. It was earlier in the story. He channels beings from the underworld when the group was surrounded by risen. Also there was a risen lich. Don't remember the story name. Also, she did channel his spirit. He wasn't just roaming the streets like that. And its stated that another necromancer banished him. Something that ritualists are capable of doing. You're really trying to split hairs to disprove it, but the facts don't lie. Necromancer channel the dead, they commune with spirits, they call forth energies and beings from the underworld and realm of torment. Clearly we can see the only difference between them is the ritualist is just more limited in the scope of what they can do. They don’t channel the dead they Reanimate the dead, and you keep making these claims without the parts to back them up Traeherne never channeled a Lich, the dead kids Spirit was there right after his death not from her channeling his spirit into herself or her magic she didn’t call upon his spirit from the Mists, you are stretching to make something fit that clearly doesn’t. Yes they do. Read the skill descriptions. They say summon. The necromancer from gw2 doesn't reanimate corpses anymore. They channel them from the underworld. Cannon. I believe there was an AMA about it before. But again you are just factually wrong.Summoning isn’t channeling.... and it doesn’t say that they are summoned from the Mists, and minions aren’t Spirits the only one close would be Shadow Fiend. And remember corpses aren’t exploitable objects due to game Engine and mechanics so no reanimating the minions from the actual dead bodies, same as how wells just erupt from the ground and not exploitable dead bodies. Please show me where it says that Necromancers channel Spirits from the Mists to fuel their spells. Only one class in Gw2 has that description on their magic. Please link the AMA again another claim without the link to them stating that.