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Leo G.4501

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  1. All fine and good to have opinions but if you're going to state your bias, don't attempt to dismiss criticism or disagreement as mere misinformation or quibbling. I've played heavily P2W games as well (to name names, Blade and Soul, while heavily skill based, it also relies on constant farming and/or benefits wins through PvP or cash) then I've played games that are NOT P2W or any iteration of the sort (things like early City of Heroes or Final Fantasy 11). I'd be far more generous to the prospect of being lenient with the term P2W if players were more generally transparent with w
  2. The other spectrum is broadening terms. Pay to play has broadened into various aspects of monetization like Buy to Play and Pay to Play because there are CLEAR defining terms for Buy to Play but that doesn't remove it from the broad category of Pay to play. You may think it's misleading to rephrase a word but others see it as misleading to obfuscate the aspects held behind a price. Pay for Convenience is mostly a sugar coat. It's still Buy to Play or Pay to Play in spirit but if you try to game the free aspect, it becomes Pay to Win. It ultimately becomes a
  3. It was the MMO that is the precursor of the current AAA game FFXIV. Yes, they still release content for it although much of it is balance changes, rotated events and grind items. Oh I do see the perspective of my opposition. I'm fully aware that P2W has negative connotations. That was nearly the whole premise of my initially posting in this thread to begin with. That the industry has been shifting to not just casualize MMOs but to also force grind but give you a pay-route around it. I'm not even against that, particularly, but moreso emphasizing the negatives these can have over time a
  4. One portion of the definition of P2W involves being sold the solution to your problems. If paying to circumvent grind is considered "convenience", then you're admitting the game implemented intentional grind with money as one solution. And to clarify, you're trying to distinguish between "win" and "beat". You're making a semantics argument. That's fine but I don't really distinguish between the two, especially when I'm talking about PvE and the opponent is the game
  5. You can rationalize it however you want, then. Paying a subscription to play a game is Pay2Play. Buying things for the game is going to get you in a different category. The only thing you can buy in FF11 is character slots to make more characters. You can also buy the expansions which is Buy2Play. You can keep trying to argue that FF11 is pay2win but I don't have to point out you're reaching hardcore to support that conclusion.
  6. You can also finance a car for 14.99 a month. That doesn't make it comparable outside of money spent.
  7. The point is, it's not comparable. If you have to conjure the closest possible comparison you can think of, why not ask yourself if you're comparing apples to chicken sandwiches.
  8. I gave you the reason why it's not a congruent comparison. You decided to ignore that thus circumvent discussion.
  9. You decided to completely circumvent discussion. You don't pay gems to play the game so no matter what gem equivalent you want to state, your comparison is incongruent.
  10. If you're replying to me, then no, it's not having the top tier shiny stuff, it's finishing. Finishing can pertain to a lot of things and winning doesn't mean someone loses. Finishing could be map completion, it could be story completion, it could be legendary crafting or finally obtaining your griffin mount. Some of those activities require gold which would otherwise require grind. Buying the gold to pay to finish (since you're traumatized by saying "win") falls under this discussion. I'm sorry if you disagree.
  11. No, it's just a subscription game. Buying currency is against the ToS, you can't buy your way past content and the jobs in later expansions are no more powerful than all other jobs.
  12. I was having that discussion back on page 2...
  13. Considering my time is being spread among many activities to include many other games, one thing I consider "winning" is finishing. Completionists out there have a similar win condition but it's not so in depth as that. To explain: I set tasks and goals to complete in the game. Some things are fast and require playing the game to obtain (WvW tokens, mount unlocks, etc). Other things require farming. Because there are such variety of objectives in the game, being able to swipe a card to finish or "win". Paying to progress is a form of P2W which you can indeed do.
  14. Applaud the effort but it misses a lot of nuance in an attempt to minimalize a talking point, basically to dismiss it. To really get the big-brain perspective, you have to be willing to see the argument from the position of your opposition.
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