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Quadox.7834

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Posts posted by Quadox.7834

    What's the drawback to running thief in your comp?

    in Player vs. Player

    Posted

    @bravan.3876 said:

    It's
    exactly the same
    currently as powermirage played at max potential : you use sword ambush exactly the same as you would for power mirage. Even the rupt part who is core based btw is used the same in one case to boonrip, in the other case to PB. The only differences gameplay wise is that powermirage can be played at range during no-burst times which is also true for rupt whereas condimirage is all about melee.The mobility
    is
    the mirage defining playstyle which is globally the same condi or power. What make mirage different from core
    is
    the mobility.If you think ambush played at his max potential is all around sword rupt, you are dreaming. A 1.5 sec animation rupt will never be active play.

    No Powermirage is not only about sword ambush interrupts, it is also about comboing with gs and sword ambushes to prepare a burst with self buffs and debuffs of targets from might and/ or vuln stacks and weakness application and ofc you can play active with sword -IH-PB mechanic, just that most Mirages do not rly utilize any of this very well (at max the average Powermirage player spam some gs ambushes but thats it). What probably lies in the circumstances that most ppl (including you) don't even understand the active part of the IH mechanic it seems. Ofc dodge traits always have a passive part included by activating on each dodge, true, means even when the player only wants to dodge pure defensive only for the purpose of dodging an attack it will still activate the dodge reward. That doesn't change the fact, that when you design dodge rewards well, means at best not being about dmg mainly or even only (as it is on condi ambushes atm still) but more about utility effects and not being too strong (what is on condi ambushes still atm) but also not too weak so active and pure offensive dodging is rewarding and NEEDED to play the mechanic at its maximum potential, than it has a very active and high skill ceiling aspect. Anet managed to do that on power weapons (with a little need to reduce gs ambush dmg from the Mirage itself, not from the clones).

    Condi ambushes do not add anything giving the need or incentive to combo them with other skills to make a good burst. That is one big difference between condi and power aside from the interrupt aspect of sword/IH/ PB which ofc also can be used very active. I have seen and met top Mirages using that active and on purpose playing far away from just some lucky random interrupts from clones when only dodging pure defensive on sword or onyl spamming some gs ambushes, so i know i am right.

    The problem with current condi ambush design is: no matter how good the player on Condimirage is, the whole ambush design will never give you the possibility at all to use them that active, to make tactical and well timed and different from pure defensive dodges timed outplays with ambushes (ambushes from the Mesmer itself or from clones). It is just a passive spam feast atm (even though it is that overnerfed from the one dodge change atm that Condimirage doesn't even use that mechanic anymore and goes for a mostly passive condi remove EM trait instead to compensate the overnerf in active dodge sustain).

    My balance suggestion for Condi ambushes would change that, so good Mirage players will get way more reward out of using ambushes/ IH active and tactial well timed than a bad Mirage onyl lucky hit a clone ambush reward in a good moment as a passive side effect from pure defensive dodges, as it is on Condimirage still. You don't have this distinction in skill lvl between a good and a bad player on Condimirage atm. All the skill ceiling the current Condibuild has is based on core combos and avoiding Mirage specific playstyle as much as possible (aside from axe and mobility, cc from sword ambush). Using IH with current condi ambush design would still be passive and op as before because the one dodge change did not solve any issues of that mechanic.

    And no mobility is not the only Mirage aspect that would be a pretty poor spec design but that view probably is linked into the lack of understanding the active part of IH/ ambushes on power vs passivity on condi you don't get. Ambsuhes are supposed to play an active and important role in terms of differ the gameplay form core and even more they are important to activate the inherent costs and the opportunity costs in dodge management, what is needed to limit and balance out the strong MC feature. One reason why i said IH should be baseline (a minor trait i mean), because without that Mirage is just a core Mesmer with some passive noobcarry stuff and a way too strong instant dodge added.Anyway i made a long post about the active-passive continuum with lot of examples. 2 different ones for you already even. If you still don't understand after reading those 2, then i don't know what to do. If this doesn't help we rly can only agree to disagree here.

    @"UNOwen.7132" said:I kinda wish thieves role wasnt solid in concrete. Itd be nice to have a thief that can actually be a competent duelist, but I guess as long as shortbow 5 exists, thats a pipedream.

    Make a thread "Remove Shortbow 5"

    AFAIK, mirage was supposed to be a duelist thief.

    Mesmer was supposed to be a duelist, it is in their core description.

    The mobility part was not.

    Chop at mobility and beef up dueling.

    Just as all classes also Mesmer and Mirage is supposed to have different playstyles (for example Guards can be supporter but also teamfight-/ roational dmg dealer). Just that Anet seems to favor the more braindead condi playstyles for Mesmer. Like pressuring Mirage into condi while IH and ambushes on power are way better and healthier and higher skill ceiling designed. If Anet wants to pressure and limit Mesmer or Mirage into only one playstyle than it should be rotational power, because that is clearly the healthiest, best balanced and hardest to play, fairest and the least annoying to deal with as an opponent. Sadly Anet does quite the opposite and kills Powerbuilds on Mesmer as if they are not relevant in their world at all and that for the sake of nerfing an in general low skill ceiling condi playstyle to fit an equally braindead meta (while not even solving the balance issues of the one op playstyle at all). The game would be so much better if just everything else (every build on Mesmer and every other class) would be balanced down to the skill requirement lvl and power lvl of a post patch (but with 2 dodges) Powermesmer/mirage. That would be a meta i would enjoy on all classes. Sadly all low skilled casuals and all the wannabe good special snowflakes with more ego than skill would probably leave the game then, when they can't find anything to carry their low skill anymore.

    Carefull with what you write because spamming GS ambush is in no way more skillfull than spamming axe ambush and in regards to condibursting with torch + shatter versus power bursting with torch + shatter, it's exactly the same, you just replace F2 by F1. Mean the current (hybrid)condi meta build is even more skillfull than the old power mirage style considering it's all melee and it's not based on a 100% F3 stun with old CS like most power build were.

    The curreent meta build doesn't rly use axe ambush because axe ambushes do not rly add anything. There is no value in making your condi burst more predictable by adding an axe ambush before the torch burst. There is no need to combo with axe ambush. Means no skill ceiling added by that. It is more a torch out of stealth burst. It is not a Mirage specific burst, it is pretty core based playstyle avoiding most Mirage mechanics would add active combo requirement and skill ceiling. Not to mention that gs has an overall way higher skill ceiling than axe even though the gs autoattack has a higher range, so you are not correct in my opinion. But i am certain we will disagree here until world ends though lets just agree to disagree over that xD The only ambush gets used in this condi build is sword for some cc/boonrip and mobility.

    Also as i mentioned in other posts already a Powermirage build rewards gs ambush spam too much is not what we want either.

    Balance changes i would do based on giving Mirage 2 dodges back are:
    1. The direct dmg from the Mesmers own gs ambush should be reduced and the might/vuln stacks should be reduced a very little bit too (less than the direct dmg and not that much, that offensive dodging gets worthless).
    2. Illusionary ambush (actually the whole retargeting mechanic, means for axe 3 only an evade and port to target but no retargeting anymore) should be deleted completely actually, what ofc will not happen. At least IA should get a 50+s cd.
    3. Signet of Illusion should not include the reset of f4 anymore, not only because of Mirage (what clearly has the best synergy to it) but because it is in general too strong, also on core, to have an utility literally half the cd of an complete invuln skill. It should have excluded f4 since game release.
    4. Condi ambushes should get reworked to not add remarkable condi dmg anymore instead should be more about utility effects the player needs to time well and different from pure defensive dodges to get enough reward out of them. I already made suggestions for how to rework condi ambushes, i will not add it here again (if wanted i will search my comments and copy paste those later?) A Mirage not timing ambush rewards (from his own but also clone ambushes with IH) for active and tactical outplays well, should have less impact than a core Mesmer, that counts for power and condi style.
    5. Normal clone autoattacks should lose all condi dmg (except for one pseudo hit like on power weapons). If needed you can move some of the lost condi dmg back to shatters again.
    6. IH should be considered to be baseline, a Mirage without IH feels like a core with only some passive mistake cover and a too strong instant dodge added. Without IH there is barely any skill ceiling added to the spec balance out the strong features the spec has from MC. Major GM traits should be reworked based on IH being baseline (i made some suggestion for how GM traits could look like then, i will not add it again, if someone insist i would search and copy paste my old posts here).
    7. Mantra of Pain should be reworked to a non dmg Mantra (means rly zero dmg). The best way would be to turn it into a boon remove or other utility Mantra instead the selfbuff for oneshots nature it still has. The face your target requirement from Mantras can be deleted after that (ofc Mantras still should not hit when obstructed).

    That would be the ideal way to balance Mirage to a balanced post patch state lvl but without killing skill ceiling (even adding tons of it) and without contradicting the inherent costs the spec has implemented since game pof release. Without dumbing down the general dodgemanagement by only one dodge bar forcing to spam dodges on cd and without contradicting the whole spec mechanic and doom it to be more passive than before on power and just as passive as before on condi.

    According to Anet not having the ressources to add that much effort and work into good balance you just can ignore Nr. 6 if too much work (but EM should be reduced to only one condi remove instead 2 when Mirage has 2 dodges again). Reworking condi ambushes meanwhile is rly not that much of work and every condi dmg it loses can be compensated by number tweaks in PvE to make it not useless for PvE content with too less dmg. Stuff like that scepter only hits one time instead giving multiple hits aside from deleting most if not all of its condi dmg and add no-dmg-conditions instead.

    When did I said that axe ambush is a thing ?You say that power ambush are more skilled than the condi versions. I just write to you that it's not the case.

    GS is a weapon who come with no sustain skills in it. When you look at meta weapon, most of them has a last 1 skill to sustain or they give sustain by class mechanics (nec.). Even longbow ranger have stealth. This alone explain why power mesmer is so hard to make it work because you are facing class who has at least weapons with 1 tempo skill on each weapon swap. Skill has nothing to do there it's pure viability. Just compare it to other class similar weapons used in meta, you should see that they all give not only damage or they give sustain by class mechanics (the evade on war GS explain at 50% why it's a meta weapon for ages, the other 50% is the mobility.).Added to that, dev has to balanced mesmers taking into account that they can have 2 weapon set with evade frame on it, so they can't balance a spec who can sustain well with GS by not making an op survival if mesmer take other weapons.If tomorrow they put a 0.45 sec block on mind stab for example like whirlwind attack but being static during the evade, you should see more GS uses.It's mirage independant yes but it explain imo much things.It's not a disagree discussion, you assert false things. I don't react every posts you defends your "skills" visions but here it's just no true, even taking apart the subjective part.

    The current condi burst combo is :Torch 4 -> blink/jaunt-> sword3 (-> sword ambush) -> torch 5 + F2. Then you can follow with axe swap -> 5 pistol -> 2 axes -> 3 axes (with a f3 rupt during the cycle to rupt/prevent opponent to heal/clear.).The historic power burst combo is :Torch -> 2GS -> blink/jaunt -> F3 -> F1. Then you can follow with sword swap -> 3 sword -> 2 sword -> sword autos (with sword ambush during the ccle to rupt/prevent opponent to heal.).

    With of course rotations adapted to opponents/situation. So no the power version is clearly not skilled++ compared to the condi version on top of that you can pressure from range during no burst phases which is not possible with a full melee condi build.

    Agreed about detargeting mechanics that should be removed :
    • It's confusing to new players and make they hate illusions more than before.
    • it's unefficient versus good players.
    • it's unusefull versus aoe spam in general.

    About axe 3 they could start to make it reliable because it's countered by just moving... Imagine a gard's leap of faith failed because the opponent is moving...

    Solllusion should conserve the F4 reset as long as there is one dodge because all current mirage survival is based on this. Dunno why you think mirage has synergy with it, it's not different from core synergy. It should also give the +50% hp on illusions back if we want to make chrono viable or give a similar trait in chrono.

    Not condi ambush but clone auto shouldn't output any condi to be on par with direct damage. They should do this in 2015 instead of removing clones on death traits.Last condi mirage meta build before the last rework was about letting clone autoing, not even ambush. IH wasn't used to ambush but to save clones from AOE last season.Condi ambush should do condi damage the same power ambush should do power damage, particulary considering the obvious animation on thoses.

    Why mirage is played is :
    • Mobility : sword ambush, jaunt. Renforced by the 50% nerf on core manipulation superspeed.
    • Condi clear : EM, jaunt.

    It's the mesmer spec who give the most mobility & survavibility which is what is needed as long as mesmer role is map control around portal.Meanwhile an equivalent core spec would drop damage and mobility if taking inspiration thanks to inspiration condi clear counterpart = if you condi clear with shatter, you can't burst. Or drop condiclear and mobility if taking chaos or duelling. (Which is also why I disagree about you opinion on inspiration and chaos being more carry line than mirage.)

    The Condimirage build has a similar base combo than a core shatter played without gs true (except of the axe it is more a core build anyway, Mirage mostly only adds some passive sustain and more mobility but nothing that would turn it into a Mirage specific playstyle) it is totally different to a Powermirage played on max potential using the IH/ambush mechanic active to combo as it should be. My balance suggestion would give Condimirage a more interesting, more skilled, more active way of playing, in particular skilled Mesmer player should be happy about to get.

    It's
    exactly the same
    currently as powermirage played at max potential : you use sword ambush exactly the same as you would for power mirage. Even the rupt part who is core based btw is used the same in one case to boonrip, in the other case to PB. The only differences gameplay wise is that powermirage can be played at range during no-burst times which is also true for rupt whereas condimirage is all about melee.The mobility
    is
    the mirage defining playstyle which is globally the same condi or power. What make mirage different from core
    is
    the mobility.
    If you think ambush played at his max potential is all around sword rupt, you are dreaming. A 1.5 sec animation rupt will never be active play
    .That bold parts, I told him that alrdy before. Power mirage spammnig ambush is no different and by far equally braindead/unskilled as condi mirage, especially these random clones on sword randomly proc'ing power block, as you noticed, thats random interrupt on clones, MIRAGE THRURST has trouble hitting its target most of times even, add to this latency and you cant even use it right away but after a short delay.Thats a facepalm tbh

    When you get random interupted on heal from a Mirage that is dodging defensive or for leaping away while you know and can even see the slow and well animated clone leap than it is your missplay. You literally even can just out move that leap if you need to use your heal so badly in exactly that moment. As said ofc every dodge trait has an passive aspect of activating also when the player is just dodging to avoid an attack and doesn't think about an well timed and tactical outplay move during that. But the difference between power and condi is, that you at least CAN use that mechanic active while condi ambushes don't give the possibility nor the incentive to use that active. Powermirage even is in NEED to combo with ambushes from sword and gs (not only for interrupt purposes, it is needed for the whole dmg application, Powermriage needs to combo with ambushes, just as it should be, while Condimirage can just dodge pure defensive and hope for some passive dmg application from clones during that). If you as Mesmer mains cannot see such simple logical and obvious stuff than it is rly not my problem. But i am not surpised why most ppl suck on Powermirage anymore.

    so what would you change condi ambushes to?

    Nerf portal

    in Player vs. Player

    Posted

    @Sznurek.8791 said:I unironically think this is a good thread.Portal is OP skill, so OP that mesmer can't be good at anything because protal alone is making it meta.Nerf Portal and after that you can buff mesmer.Also I think Mesmer needs to be moved from duelist to a little bit different position.With so many utility skills it should be somewhere between duelist and some other position.(as if it would become the best 1v1 it would push some other professions like ranger for example to be just their worse version).

    incorrect

    What's the drawback to running thief in your comp?

    in Player vs. Player

    Posted

    backstab was nerfed by 25% which is reasonably in line with other nerfs, for example phantasmal berserker was nerfed ~35%. The problem is that those who think thief does dmg are generally playing mes or zerk ele or some other squishy, so they don't see the perspective of thief vs necro or thief vs prot holo. Trust me, on power mes I also feel like I do 0 dmg vs these tanky metaspecs. I feel like a lot of you of you could put past your differences and unite in your dislike of unkillable bruisers.

    What's the drawback to running thief in your comp?

    in Player vs. Player

    Posted

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5.

    If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1(Mes thief and rev)
    There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts).Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that

    Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious.Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec.

    DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together.

    Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1

    You focus on what you see on Na but you dont focus on how little the thieves achieved in the games. You could have dropped thief in a second over a rev for example without a problem lmao

    There are a couple of problems:
    1. Tanky braindead specs on necro, rev etc (trust me, I also feel I do bad damage on powermes in this meta), making the game slow and making it hard to +1.
    2. Offensive lines not giving enough compared to defensive lines. A build with daredevil, shadowarts, trickery should not do super high levels of damage (because you are running one mobility line, one sustain line and one utility line). However a build with deadlyarts and critstrikes probably should.
    3. This is more of a personal remark: I am not a good thief but I doubt that shadow portal isn't worth taking once you learn to use it to move your slower teammates around for example.

    The problem is that deadly arts / crit strikes does barely more damage than SA atm after the balance patch. If i drop SA for DA i crit 600 more on a heavy golem at this point.Not to mention if you want to frontload all your damage to be a burst spec you'd go da/tr/drd and drop agi signet and go sin signet and dodge 3 times before opening, which means at this point u have no evades after ur spike which makes u vulnerable. And at best here you'll do like 1.5k~ more damage than SA.

    I don't want thief to be buffed, we had this issue in HoT and i'd say its the "bunkers" that are too tanky atm.Tank revTank necProt holoSLB variants

    Prolly others forgotten, but I also don't want them to absolutely hammer these "tanks" i rather have them slowly tweak them down, little by little until they hit that sweet spot.

    And i don't run shadow portal, don't find it good personally

    Yes I think the same (except perhaps the portal part).

    What is even the point of playing power mesmer?

    in Mesmer

    Posted

    @viquing.8254 said:I have been testing power mirage today in ranked, some things bother me :

    • Clones direct damage ambush on sword and axe does 50 damage ?
    • Rupt from clones ambush didn't trigger Vicious expression or there is a hidden icd ?
    • Or I was drunk when I check damage logs ?

    If it's the case for both, I don't see the interest to take IH over EM. Or even mirage. Mean if it's only for the rupt with a 1 sec animation on clones and for sword mobility, seems pretty bad in direct damage.

    Edit :

    • Clones direct damage is effectively near 0.
    • Rupt from clones seems to trigger vicious expression after more testing.
    • Misha use EM last At.

    VE works with IH clone ambush but the leaps are unreliable and often dont connect. In theory it is good but yeah.

    Move the "select map" from the middle of the screen.

    in Player vs. Player

    Posted

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @"Alatar.7364" said:Yes please.If not "relocation" then at least make it "dismissable" like the Que-ready Screen.Every time the Map Selection pops up I am just about to sell something, so when it does I can only dream of Riches beyond.

    Making it possible to dismiss the map vote box is on our backlog, though I'm not sure when we'll get to it.

    Please? Two years and 0 improvements...

    they have a very large table ok

    [Bug] Mirror Blade damage lower than intended

    in Mesmer

    Posted

    Hmm, I didn't take vulnerability and might into consideration in the OP.Tests were done with no amulet or rune (power = 1000), on a light golem (2185 armor), running domination traitline.

    Let's use this formula:

    Damage = Weapon Strength Power Coefficient / ArmorFirst let's first find out greatsword weapon strength using Mind Stab as a test:Weapon Strength = Damage Armor / (Power Coefficient) = 1012This must be the weapon strength of greatsword. Let's test mirror blade now. Damage = 236+178+134.But for the first hit we have 0 might 0 vuln, second hit we have 3 might 3 vuln and last hit we have 6 might 6 vuln. Let's modify the formula:Damage = Vulnerability Weapon Strength (Power + Might) Coefficient / ArmorOr...Coefficient = Armor Damage / (Vulnerability Weapon Strength (Power + Might))Where each stack of vulnerability is 1.5% and each stack of might is 30 power. Let's calculate the coefficient of each hit of Mirror Blade:1: Coefficient = 2185 236 / (1.0 1012 (1000 + 0)) = 0.512: Coefficient = 2185 178 / (1.045 1012 (1000 + 90)) = 0.3373: Coefficient = 2185 134 / (1.09 1012 (1000 + 180)) = 0.225So for example we get 0.337 / 0.51 = 0.66, and 1 - 0.66 = 0.34, so the damage is reduced by 34%* (rather than 15% by the tooltip or 25% by the OP). Even more confusing than before, either I am missing something or this Mirror Blade is weird af.

    Mesmer needs buff

    in Player vs. Player

    Posted

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @"Quadox.7834" said:
    5uXK76m.jpg
    characterlimit

    Wow, bleeding looks ridiculously op. Jokes aside though, that damage is about what an
    actually playable
    thief build tends to hit on squishy targets. Its still decent, but its far from a oneshot, and as such the build is arguably fair, even if out of combat stealth is still annoying.

    bad joke tbh

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