[FB Mains - Advice?]

@"Kunzaito.8169" said:I looked up Naru but he is only playing core necro right now from what I saw in his videos.

Support FB is the only guardian build on MB, so I guess guardian is just bad now? I see a lot of DHs in game but no builds for them.

And before anyone says something like "don't use MB" - what's the alternative? I'm not interested in theorycrafting or making PvP into a research project. I'm not looking to climb the ranks or outsmart anyone with my build. I just want a viable build that people who like that kind of stuff have already put through QA, with clear instructions on how it should be played so I can just jump in and have some fun. MB fills that slot well most of the time; I don't know of any other reliably updated sites with detailed builds like that.

1. An alternative to metabattle which is perhaps more "curated" is godsofpvp.net.
2. If you like FB you should absolutely play it, and it is not a bad spec.

[(thanks for the help) Found a Burst Spec for my Thieve]

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Lmao this thread, funny as I figured what this thread was from beginning. A thief is fine and I'm gonna prove it by building a useless build that no one would use in a pvp setting that can sometimes get a ok burst off, so it's fine emiright? Good thing in ur short time "proving to ur bf" u found secrets to the class vets like sindrener etc haven't, good for ya lol.

eh no

[what do you miss most about the core days?]

@Ghostof Luzifer.6159 said:staff/gs and sw+torch/gs shatter mesmer. juking with staff 2 was great in core. It was the most fun i ever had in this game..

exactly the same here

[How to fix Dune Cloak / Sand Shards]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:Is it unblockable yet?No, its blockable so aegis meme'ing on this one

no it takes aegis before it does damage

[How to fix Dune Cloak / Sand Shards]

This trait is underperforming compared to EM and IH.

1. Allow it to trigger while in the air (important!!) otherwise mirage trust (sword ambush leap) makes it not trigger. Even better would be to queue it so it triggers when you land on the ground, if possible.
2. Increase range from 180 to 240, if it makes it too strong in teamfights then reduce number of targets from 5 to 3.
3. ???
4. Profit

[Let's talk about ranger GS]

If there is anything to be done, it would probably be to reduce the block duration, but in that case the same should be considered for defensive skills on other classes.

[Feels like pof release again]

rev and holo are possibly the best 2 classes though

[Lighting Rod Comparison:]

@Odik.4587 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Odik.4587 said:PB was nerfed that hard because of mirage existence and had 3s icd (sword ambush + IH).I can assume (I dont know real reason) that PI was nerfed because of access to CC's from weaponsets that can be "spammed" like headshot/unblockable poison field/ pistol whip.I want to mention trait that chrono had access to as a reminder - grandmaster trait called "lost time", it did damage on any cc as well, did x2 less damage but applied 3s slow. This trait was basically deleted and left as placeholder (like Chaos Interrupt) xDSo what I'm trying to say - PB/PI shouldnt get buffed. Just kill LR :)

Even on those "spammable" CCs, PI was already underperforming. It was like 1k damage for 4+ initiative. Pistol Whip S/P was the only weaponset that even used the trait, and the funny thing is, Im pretty sure it was wrong even there, and Havoc Mastery would still have been better.

PI should be buffed or reworked. As it stands its just an emptry trait slot. No build should ever use it.You want too much, master tier trait to be as strong as GM :joy:You want to see a true empty slot occupying

grandmaster

place?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lost_Time

By the way, long ago on its release or somewhere like that it did to my mesmer like ~4k per proc, you know how fun it was to be killed by headshots ?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chaotic_Interruption lol

[Do ppl remember?]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

So, you're mad because a THIEF who specializes in stealth, agility, sneak-attacks, etc., can't 1v1 face-tank a tank spec, then? EVERY description of EVERY class makes them seem like they would wipe the floor 1v5 against any other classes. That's not how class descriptions work. XD

Its not supposed to face-tank it. But its supposed to be good at 1v1ing, instead of its current state where its the

worst

profession at 1v1ing. Hence "Deady

Duelist

". Instead theyre just errand boys who pretty much never duel because its the wrong thing to do.

You're missing the point. You legit are using the lore description as an indicator of playstyle, and I think that's just a lil silly. ;)

You

are missing the point, because those descriptions (which arent lore descriptions btw)

are

supposed to be indicators for playstyle. Theyre small blurbs for newbies to figure out what class they want to go for. In other words, indicating playstyle is exactly

the point of them

.

Besides, thief used to be a deadly duelist, they just lost that over time and ended up as the worst duelists they are now.

ok, go back to wts and ask yourself if you see thief being played as a duelist.

That is the problem. Thief was supposed to be a duelist, but they lost that years ago. And some people are unhappy with it.

wts was years ago and they did not lose it since then, bcs they didnt have it

[For the love of God, Nerf Mesmer already!]

@rng.1024 said:Step 1: Give them their dodge back

Step 2: Take distortion away (give it to Chrono, since chaining mirrors already replace this mechanic)

Step 3: Make Ambushes only available when using mirrors (NOT on dodge, Infinite Horizon should only be given to clones on dodge if the trait is picked)

Step 4: Remove any Vigor application from the mirage trait line and give it back to core lines.

Bonus step:Change the property of Mirage Cloak from Distortion (Invuln) to that of Blur (evade), this way conditions will stick but they still get cc and dmg immunity.

the bonus step is already how it works

[Do ppl remember?]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Lighter.5631 said:...> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

Gw2 is the only game I've played where the assassin class has thee lowest damage on the majority of its skill. The class has to resort to weak kitten backstabs and lame 300 damage autos against today's super sustain classes. Defenitly not the burst class u want to take down the opositions tank lmao.The team tried but their lowering build deversity AND class deversity at the same time, hope they fix it.Best thing is there are still thief haters going around saying their op still laughing quietly going they stay in this sad asf state.

i guess u arent playing any competitive game, any character with high mobility and high exist ability does little damage, specially assassin class are supposed to poke damage and only go in to shut down low HP target when played at equal level and never go toe to toe against a tank or brawler and fights are often initiated by tanks/brawler and often brawler does a ton more damage if you go toe to toe. there's no such thing as "burst class".

Except for Mobas, where they do a lot of damage. And other MMOs, where they do a lot of damage. And shooters, where they can usually oneshot. And PvP games that dont fall into any of these categories (stuff like Gigantic), where they do a lot of damage. Actually, now that I think about it, I cant thing of a

single

competitive game where they do little damage.

I think you mismatched competitive games with some PvE player role playing game where you slash NPCs, where tanks does no damage and dps does all the damage.see, thief still manages to be meta when other classes are overtuned, like it has always been doing.mobility>damage=tankiness.

Its meta, yes, but not as an assassin. Its meta as an errand boy. Someone who runs around the map, and stands on points.

or if you simply prefer brawling over roaming, switch class, who plays only one class in a competitive team based game?

Some people want to play thief as what it was originally supposed to be. A deadly duelist. Its even in their description.

So, you're mad because a THIEF who specializes in stealth, agility, sneak-attacks, etc., can't 1v1 face-tank a tank spec, then? EVERY description of EVERY class makes them seem like they would wipe the floor 1v5 against any other classes. That's not how class descriptions work. XD

Its not supposed to face-tank it. But its supposed to be good at 1v1ing, instead of its current state where its the

worst

profession at 1v1ing. Hence "Deady

Duelist

". Instead theyre just errand boys who pretty much never duel because its the wrong thing to do.

You're missing the point. You legit are using the lore description as an indicator of playstyle, and I think that's just a lil silly. ;)

You

are missing the point, because those descriptions (which arent lore descriptions btw)

are

supposed to be indicators for playstyle. Theyre small blurbs for newbies to figure out what class they want to go for. In other words, indicating playstyle is exactly

the point of them

.

Besides, thief used to be a deadly duelist, they just lost that over time and ended up as the worst duelists they are now.

ok, go back to wts and ask yourself if you see thief being played as a duelist.

[Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Quadox.7834 most play domi becouse dueling bleeds got nerfed to kitten.-1 dodge means DE is worseadd in 70-80% dmg nerf to bleeds and here you go, they dont take domi becouse its somehow sleeper op, they take it becouse our former mandatory traitline got UBER nerfed. Power mes could still MAYBE use it alongside of domi+mirage for complex but thats about it.Typical mesmer traitline, take a line for 1 trait becouse the rest is half garbage :D

Yes I agree, all I said was that condi ambushes are pretty weak and therefore don't make IH+DE a guaranteed pick anymore.

[Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!]

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.Why would mirage have extra trade off? In their book it should be sufficent enough - one (not current "single evade") dodge is being replaced with another and its drawback its mobility .... or lack of it...?Chrono/mirage have got 2 trade offs when others either have none or have got infinite better stuff compared to what they have "lost". The same is here, mirage got better evade like this DH/FB etcetcetc getting better stuff but mesmer is an exception here, must be overkilled!
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).And that was the point - condi ambushes are really bad without IH.They are bad with or without which is why most play domi now
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.Try to play mirage without this shatter spam (illusions traitline) and tell me mirage is not useless without IH, I dare you. The same goes for power mirage - without IH its even worse than core mesmer

I disagree that it is worse than core mes

Mirage with IH benefits from ambush damage, Mirage without IH has no damage improvements over core. Core has better trait options to improve damage or utility over Mirage once you aren't using IH. I think your view is very much in the minority Quad.

You are wrong, Mirage with EM (i.e. no IH) is better than core.

[Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!]

@Odik.4587 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.Why would mirage have extra trade off? In their book it should be sufficent enough - one (not current "single evade") dodge is being replaced with another and its drawback its mobility .... or lack of it...?Chrono/mirage have got 2 trade offs when others either have none or have got infinite better stuff compared to what they have "lost". The same is here, mirage got better evade like this DH/FB etcetcetc getting better stuff but mesmer is an exception here, must be overkilled!
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).And that was the point - condi ambushes are really bad without IH.They are bad with or without which is why most play domi now
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.Try to play mirage without this shatter spam (illusions traitline) and tell me mirage is not useless without IH, I dare you. The same goes for power mirage - without IH its even worse than core mesmer

I disagree that it is worse than core mes

[[Video] Power Mirage Roaming + gameplay tips]

@viquing.8254 said:Nice vid as usual.It remind me how painfull it can be when all random effects can easily nullify a combo setup.Something bother me, is the condiclear on jaunt random or have an order ?

p sure all condi clear works the same way. not like boonstrip.

[Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!]

@Odik.4587 said:Lets see if you are wrong...shall we?

@Quadox.7834 said:You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.Its terrible but since Misha is still playing mesmer its usable? LULI am not saying that mesmer is super good, just that one dodge is not its main problem. If you ask for some other tradeoff (as some have done) we could very well get a worse one.
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.What a surprise, both weapons are power based (and sword ambush would be considered good anyway since it can be used for mobility)... And condi weapons do pretty low damage without IH, hence why they say its bad.Yes I agree, the condi ambushes are generally bad (esp without IH).
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.You dont rely on clones to do the damage, you spam shatters and get 0 value from IH, so you go for EM which is way more useful in this case.Even on power mesmer I wouldnt drop IH as you lose a lot of damage from GS ambush and sword ambush from clonesYes I agree, most of the damage comes from torch burn and shatters (maim etc). Just saying that it is wrong to say that mirage is useless without IH which some seem to think.

[Mesmer 1 dodge. Ty anet!]

You guys are wrong in a few ways:

1. One dodge is not that bad for mirage, it is usable.
2. All ambushes are not bad without IH, gs and sword are still really good.
3. IH is not mandatory for mirage, current meta build uses EM because it is very strong.

[Chronomancers state in Pvp/WvW]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:lower CD and lower its impact.Idea I had was to make it baseline LOW cd like 10-15s.Make it NOT remove clones ( no longer a shatter )Last set duration dunno how long could be split for pvp/pve. 2-5s depending on mode would be good.Increase its duration depending on abilities used during Csplit. For example it gets 50% cd of skills used during its duration.Example, I use csplit and gs2+gs3+f1 shatter.Csplit resets those cooldowns and goes on cd equal to 50% off gs2 + 50% off gs3 + 50% off f1 + flat 10-15s.That way you can decide to use it as a pseudo invuln on low cd 10-15 but you cant attack or it goes on longer cooldown, it also doesnt remove condis so it would be bad version of disort on lower cd, or you can use it offensively but it goes on much longer cooldown, and you no longer can abuse things like long cd heroic + shield 5 + blink + other long cds becouse it will go on 200s cd and you wont use it for years.

I think 30s-35s cd baseline with 33% of used skills is a good idea. This way, Moa + CS = 94.4s cooldown which is understandable. This way, your small skills like gs2 etc won't affect CS that much.

They could juggle with numbers, numbers can always be fine tuned. Most important thing is to make the idea actually have a reason to exist.They could make every skill add flat CD + % of their cooldown for example, so mesmer doesnt bombard people with 5+ low cd skills for example. Would prevent from double GS bursting or at least put a real cooldown on it. Just brainstorming, in reality noting will change and chrono will remain the worst spec in the game, as it was decided to be couple of months ago.

So basically your idea is to give chrono free mimic but for multiple skills not just 1. You still run foul of the double up problem where if any skill is worth doubling up on it's going to always be doubled up on which is the biggest problem with CS in every game mode. It's the reason it had to be nerfed in PvE, PvP and WvW into the current state of not being able to use it without clones because no matter the skill if it's strong it's worth doubling up on and the entire class has to suffer for it.

Better off making CS grant alacrity, has counterplay and you can actually buff it with concentration/improved alacrity without worrying about it utterly shattering all balance by cool down. Or we can be SUPER lazy and do the whole steal a mechanic from another class and make CS work like Improvisation except it only works on utilities that are on cool down.

Why you guys make it that complicated? When something gets more cds in his skill kit you just have to lower the power lvl of the skill ensemble with more cds by lowering the power lvl of each single skill compared to a power lvl of a single skill in a skill ensemble with less cds available. Simple stat penalty as they did with Scrapper are more than enough to trade off a more in cds a mechanic like CS adds. Means when Chrono can do a double gs burst the 2 bursts should have around 130% of the impact from a single Core Mesmer burst (and not like 200% as it was pre trade off), more than 100% from core simply to reward the higher skill requirement a little bit. It is the same with Fb tomes. Deleting or contradicting the mechanic itself or contradicting underlying basic mechanics to trade off or nerf elites is bad and not needed for a good balance.

A Chrono trade off could be for example: -100 power, -50 vita, -50 toughness in addition to the shatter f1,f2 rework (maybe add a rework to f4 to link the invuln duration to alacrity or quickness uptime on the Chrono or somehting like that and not to the number of clones up anymore). For that you put CS back on f5 , give IP back and f4 in a rework form back.

This is the least insightful post I've seen you make. You literally miss the problem which is that continuum split doubles up on abilities (read: effects) which means that you can't simply give -300 power and call it a day because now the double burst hits for 130%. You miss that conditions aren't affected by this, so let's do -300 condition damage, you miss that boons aren't affected by this, so let's add -300 concentration etc etc. So you end up with an elite spec several hundred stat points down just equipping the elite spec and you don't have to be a genius to figure out it would feel terrible to play even with IP and distortion back.

This is also ignoring the other implications which is how do you balance something as outrageously big as time warp or moa? If their cool downs are lower than continuum split then you can always effectively gain double the skill just by having chronomancer, so their cool down has to be higher than continuum split to punish use outside of continuum split which then causes the problem of them being useless on everything else. How do you deal with double (quadruple) summoning phantasms without nerfing them into irrelevance everywhere else and that's without mentioning the additional effects like disenchanter and defender that even doubled up can be over bearing.

Which leads me back to what I said at the start of the entire thread and a couple of years ago now, continuum split as it is now shouldn't exist. Either make it give alacrity so it's a small chunk off every cool down when you use F4 or give it the improv treatment that randomises it to some degree but leaves out elites and heal.

why was mirage used over chrono, even before IP removal, if cont spit is so powerful?

Chrono was used when they made phantasmal disenchanter and defender actually good utility skills during PoF and because of chrono's nature of doubling up on everything and signet of either (meant you could octuple cast many of them) everything about that build was nerfed into the floor, with good reason but to this day many of those skills remain quite bad on core. However the unfortunate side effect for chrono was that it's rhythm was gone with the phantasm update and with the phantasm build nerfed down chrono became more clunky to play after these nerfs, roll on IP removal later.

Then there's the simple stunbreak on dodge then after nerfs dodge while stunned and have your clones do big damage while the enemy is mid animation so gets hit with loads of conditions for why mirage was used. Put simply for the majority of the time mirage just did more damage and did it via conditions which were more effective in a power meta when people take anti power utilities over cleanses. Add on that many traits outside of mirage were nerfed for mirage's sake and ultimately chrono kept getting hit on the only areas it was historically any good at.

@bravan.3876 The problem is, was and always will be that doubling or tripling up on not just 1 skill but multiple skills means it inherently has to be balanced at it's base with that in mind. It's not a healthy mechanic to have in the game and neither is chrono phantasm.

Interesting that your example of "when chrono was used" involved phantasms and specifically chronophantasma. Could it be that chronophantasma is the problem that should be removed and not CS as I have said all along? Just maybe?

[Chronomancers state in Pvp/WvW]

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I never saw a big balance issue with the Condi Chrono Hot meta or with glass Powershatterchrono during HoT.

There was a big balance issue but you didn't see it because the gap was between core and chrono (basically chrono was fine whereas core was trash.). Aka like @apharma.3741 and most mesmer talking about balance said : as long as there is CS and CP, base traits/skills have to take in account that they can be doubled which can never be balanced. Which is particulary visible for ulti like Time warp and Moa. And more visible for moa taken during HoT.Another example is how the phantasm rework get overused and nerfed to hell thanks to CP.

That's why I don't think mesmer can globally get good balance as long as CP double phantasms and CS double skills. And I'm not alone thinking this.

Btw the Teapot VoD was cringe as hell when it comes to Mesmer balance. CmC was not even able to say a single word to the nonsense mess they did to both Mesmer elites. He didn't answer a single question about Mesmer balance and didn't react at all to Teapot saying that Mesmer got kind of butchered (even in WvW only a 2 skill bot). The only Mesmer relevant information was a statement not even directed to Mesmer, that they mainly try to make the one playstyle work they had in mind while creating the spec. That explains why neither Powershatterchrono nor Powermirage get any attention and no one cares when those (more healthy and better designed playstyles) get totally up due to balancing out the main playstyle they see in their (limited) visions. Means they only care for Mirage as a condispam spec, what is ironical because as i descripted the power ambushes are way better designed. Anet doesn't make sense at all when it comes to Mesmer. Because just reworking condi ambushes would have solved all issues from Condimirage way better than the one dodge change and that even without overkilling powerplaystyle as a spin of and without contradicting basic and elite mechanics and deleting skill cieling/tactical deepness/ mechanical complexity and without making the whole spec even more passive and dodgespammy on cd. Just as the IP deletion and the f4 deletion are completely nonsense on Chrono.Interesting, did you have direct link to this ?

@Quadox.7834 said:The fact that core is currently stronger than chrono and hes been for a long time is unequivocal proof that CS

can

be balanced with a sufficient tradeoff, prove me wrong.

Which is hell to balance and for the moment we never get chrono at the same level as core : either core is trash and chrono is fine, either chrono is trash while chrono is fine.

• the facts that some base mesmers mechanic (phantasm/uti.) can't logicaly be core balanced as long as they can be doubled.

You just stated the same thing again, as I told you the fact that core is better than chrono despite the fact that the latter can double the former's skills, proves that it can be balanced and that you are wrong.

[Chronomancers state in Pvp/WvW]

@viquing.8254 said:

@bravan.3876 said:I never saw a big balance issue with the Condi Chrono Hot meta or with glass Powershatterchrono during HoT.

There was a big balance issue but you didn't see it because the gap was between core and chrono (basically chrono was fine whereas core was trash.). Aka like @apharma.3741 and most mesmer talking about balance said : as long as there is CS and CP, base traits/skills have to take in account that they can be doubled which can never be balanced. Which is particulary visible for ulti like Time warp and Moa. And more visible for moa taken during HoT.Another example is how the phantasm rework get overused and nerfed to hell thanks to CP.

That's why I don't think mesmer can globally get good balance as long as CP double phantasms and CS double skills. And I'm not alone thinking this.

Btw the Teapot VoD was cringe as hell when it comes to Mesmer balance. CmC was not even able to say a single word to the nonsense mess they did to both Mesmer elites. He didn't answer a single question about Mesmer balance and didn't react at all to Teapot saying that Mesmer got kind of butchered (even in WvW only a 2 skill bot). The only Mesmer relevant information was a statement not even directed to Mesmer, that they mainly try to make the one playstyle work they had in mind while creating the spec. That explains why neither Powershatterchrono nor Powermirage get any attention and no one cares when those (more healthy and better designed playstyles) get totally up due to balancing out the main playstyle they see in their (limited) visions. Means they only care for Mirage as a condispam spec, what is ironical because as i descripted the power ambushes are way better designed. Anet doesn't make sense at all when it comes to Mesmer. Because just reworking condi ambushes would have solved all issues from Condimirage way better than the one dodge change and that even without overkilling powerplaystyle as a spin of and without contradicting basic and elite mechanics and deleting skill cieling/tactical deepness/ mechanical complexity and without making the whole spec even more passive and dodgespammy on cd. Just as the IP deletion and the f4 deletion are completely nonsense on Chrono.Interesting, did you have direct link to this ?

@Quadox.7834 said:The fact that core is currently stronger than chrono and hes been for a long time is unequivocal proof that CS

can

be balanced with a sufficient tradeoff, prove me wrong.

Which is hell to balance and for the moment we never get chrono at the same level as core : either core is trash and chrono is fine, either chrono is trash while chrono is fine.

• the facts that some base mesmers mechanic (phantasm/uti.) can't logicaly be core balanced as long as they can be doubled.

2*x=x+x

[Chronomancers state in Pvp/WvW]

The fact that core is currently stronger than chrono and hes been for a long time is unequivocal proof that CS can be balanced with a sufficient tradeoff, prove me wrong.

[Sigil of Revocation is a broken mess, remove it or fix it.]

@Shao.7236 said:

@Quadox.7834 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Quadox.78341) the last boon that is applied (stability) is the first one to get stripped.2) you don't know what hypocricy means, because that is not it.

https://gyazo.com/3fb001a60b7ab57af857a5068cc6ef45

Zzz. Hypocrite yeah, acting like you've explained it properly, but you haven't. Your explanation about boons is incomplete to the topic I brought, being in the wrong like I was but then behave like you weren't after I find the reason why Stability seemingly was favored by the Sigil which is related by LIFO internally but not externally to the in-game feedback because it didn't look LIFO at ALL.

You're silly for thinking that it's okay to lose 10 stacks of Stability that was applied first and because one other source applied a shorter one on top of it even though it's the very first boon that was added far far far far away from the first spot gets removed by a random hit.

1) i have no obligation to explain game mechanics to you, i told you it is lifo, it looks like lifo on your videos, and i did an extra test just to be nice.2) i have not said anything about whether it is fine or not, is it fair that mesmer's shattered concentration takes stability

last

of all boons in the game (compare to for ex bountiful theft)?

LIFO does not explain the visual queue.I said that some CC's plain don't work with the Sigil, with Mesmer only Gravity Well was ever effective to do so, everything else is a waste.

1) it does not mean "the boon to the left gets removed first".2) the second sentence has no relevance to what i was saying.

[Chronomancers state in Pvp/WvW]

@apharma.3741 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tayga.3192 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:lower CD and lower its impact.Idea I had was to make it baseline LOW cd like 10-15s.Make it NOT remove clones ( no longer a shatter )Last set duration dunno how long could be split for pvp/pve. 2-5s depending on mode would be good.Increase its duration depending on abilities used during Csplit. For example it gets 50% cd of skills used during its duration.Example, I use csplit and gs2+gs3+f1 shatter.Csplit resets those cooldowns and goes on cd equal to 50% off gs2 + 50% off gs3 + 50% off f1 + flat 10-15s.That way you can decide to use it as a pseudo invuln on low cd 10-15 but you cant attack or it goes on longer cooldown, it also doesnt remove condis so it would be bad version of disort on lower cd, or you can use it offensively but it goes on much longer cooldown, and you no longer can abuse things like long cd heroic + shield 5 + blink + other long cds becouse it will go on 200s cd and you wont use it for years.

I think 30s-35s cd baseline with 33% of used skills is a good idea. This way, Moa + CS = 94.4s cooldown which is understandable. This way, your small skills like gs2 etc won't affect CS that much.

They could juggle with numbers, numbers can always be fine tuned. Most important thing is to make the idea actually have a reason to exist.They could make every skill add flat CD + % of their cooldown for example, so mesmer doesnt bombard people with 5+ low cd skills for example. Would prevent from double GS bursting or at least put a real cooldown on it. Just brainstorming, in reality noting will change and chrono will remain the worst spec in the game, as it was decided to be couple of months ago.

So basically your idea is to give chrono free mimic but for multiple skills not just 1. You still run foul of the double up problem where if any skill is worth doubling up on it's going to always be doubled up on which is the biggest problem with CS in every game mode. It's the reason it had to be nerfed in PvE, PvP and WvW into the current state of not being able to use it without clones because no matter the skill if it's strong it's worth doubling up on and the entire class has to suffer for it.

Better off making CS grant alacrity, has counterplay and you can actually buff it with concentration/improved alacrity without worrying about it utterly shattering all balance by cool down. Or we can be SUPER lazy and do the whole steal a mechanic from another class and make CS work like Improvisation except it only works on utilities that are on cool down.

Why you guys make it that complicated? When something gets more cds in his skill kit you just have to lower the power lvl of the skill ensemble with more cds by lowering the power lvl of each single skill compared to a power lvl of a single skill in a skill ensemble with less cds available. Simple stat penalty as they did with Scrapper are more than enough to trade off a more in cds a mechanic like CS adds. Means when Chrono can do a double gs burst the 2 bursts should have around 130% of the impact from a single Core Mesmer burst (and not like 200% as it was pre trade off), more than 100% from core simply to reward the higher skill requirement a little bit. It is the same with Fb tomes. Deleting or contradicting the mechanic itself or contradicting underlying basic mechanics to trade off or nerf elites is bad and not needed for a good balance.

A Chrono trade off could be for example: -100 power, -50 vita, -50 toughness in addition to the shatter f1,f2 rework (maybe add a rework to f4 to link the invuln duration to alacrity or quickness uptime on the Chrono or somehting like that and not to the number of clones up anymore). For that you put CS back on f5 , give IP back and f4 in a rework form back.

This is the least insightful post I've seen you make. You literally miss the problem which is that continuum split doubles up on abilities (read: effects) which means that you can't simply give -300 power and call it a day because now the double burst hits for 130%. You miss that conditions aren't affected by this, so let's do -300 condition damage, you miss that boons aren't affected by this, so let's add -300 concentration etc etc. So you end up with an elite spec several hundred stat points down just equipping the elite spec and you don't have to be a genius to figure out it would feel terrible to play even with IP and distortion back.

This is also ignoring the other implications which is how do you balance something as outrageously big as time warp or moa? If their cool downs are lower than continuum split then you can always effectively gain double the skill just by having chronomancer, so their cool down has to be higher than continuum split to punish use outside of continuum split which then causes the problem of them being useless on everything else. How do you deal with double (quadruple) summoning phantasms without nerfing them into irrelevance everywhere else and that's without mentioning the additional effects like disenchanter and defender that even doubled up can be over bearing.

Which leads me back to what I said at the start of the entire thread and a couple of years ago now, continuum split as it is now shouldn't exist. Either make it give alacrity so it's a small chunk off every cool down when you use F4 or give it the improv treatment that randomises it to some degree but leaves out elites and heal.

why was mirage used over chrono, even before IP removal, if cont spit is so powerful?

[Sigil of Revocation is a broken mess, remove it or fix it.]

@Shao.7236 said:

@"Quadox.7834"1) the last boon that is applied (stability) is the first one to get stripped.2) you don't know what hypocricy means, because that is not it.

https://gyazo.com/3fb001a60b7ab57af857a5068cc6ef45

Zzz. Hypocrite yeah, acting like you've explained it properly, but you haven't. Your explanation about boons is incomplete to the topic I brought, being in the wrong like I was but then behave like you weren't after I find the reason why Stability seemingly was favored by the Sigil which is related by LIFO internally but not externally to the in-game feedback because it didn't look LIFO at ALL.

You're silly for thinking that it's okay to lose 10 stacks of Stability that was applied first and because one other source applied a shorter one on top of it even though it's the very first boon that was added far far far far away from the first spot gets removed by a random hit.

1) i have no obligation to explain game mechanics to you, i told you it is lifo, it looks like lifo on your videos, and i did an extra test just to be nice.2) i have not said anything about whether it is fine or not, is it fair that mesmer's shattered concentration takes stability

last

of all boons in the game (compare to for ex bountiful theft)?

[Core ranger is broken]

teefs: thief hits like a wet noodle but maul oneshots and ranger is op