Dustfinger.9510

I think we can have something like that no matter what. Picture every Terminator movie that shows the future when the machines have taken over and sought to exterminate humanity. Bones and skulls are everywhere while pockets of humanity scurry around like vermin, hiding in holes in order to survive.

Tbf: we saw only a small portion of Cantha hundreds of years ago. And the description of "primarily" existing on the mainland inherently holds the option to exist anywhere else besides the mainland. Just, not in the same numbers as in the mainland. Since we saw so little of Cantha, it'd be like saying that not seeing wolves (or any other NPC) in a starting area of any region means they can't exist in any of the later maps of the region. There's just simply nothing eliminating the possibility or even making it extremely unlikely since so much of Cantha went unexplored by the PC. It means that the vast majority of Cantha can hold absolutely anything A-net would want to be there, in almost any proportions, and it wouldn't be lore breaking.

Yeah, the Pact tech like airships is stated to be combinations of asura, charr and human tech. Norn seem to be consistently absent from having any major role in world events. While some might argue that the norns individual and heroic nature make it difficult to highlight norn contribution, I'd argue that assigning norn a broad role in the areas they excel at is just as easy as doing it for any other race. e.g.: humans are thrown in for their ….wooden ship building. Sure. Why not. If something like humanities wooden ships can be thrown in as a legitimate contribution, it would be just as easy to say the norn do the bulk of the physical work with their near mythical strength. Another option A-net can do is simply add a small plot point about dropping a lone norn an area to mess things up and cause enough damage to create a distraction for other race groups to be successful in their missions. A-net definatly isn't doing the norns justice recently.

I think if this was the real concern, it would have been agreed with more than the implication that Norn are supposed to be a joke race. I also would like to see more norn focus to cheer my norn characters through. But conflating that with norn being a joke race outside of Eir doesn't seem to have a solid arguement. It comes off as "chicken little". Eir was a good character. It always sucks when a good character dies. I'd also like to see more norn characters developed in a good way that brings pride to us norn fans.

Some things are pretty clear

Sylvari are all plant. They are the Pale Trees version of humanity. Like a pod person. They are all leaf and bark and wood. Toe beans. yes. Nice. Asura. They seem to be A-nets version of Gremlins with their technical nature. You are right not to trust them. Norn are giants. Closer to some RL mythological demigods than humans. Like Hercules. We have examples of their feats of strength to be more than what a human would have if a human grew big enough. Ty :)

Ritualists are also pretty culturally limiting. In GW, they were "unique to Cantha" and we don't really see them in playable humanity, that I'm aware of anyways. So, while there may be a few individual outside of Cantha, they'd be hard pressed to be (playable) humanities connection to the mists. Or, as humanities representation of their connection to the mists, their apparent rarity outside of Cantha is an indication that humanities connection to the mists, as a whole, isn't very strong.

The problem with having a time machine under our control is that we then have nothing to worry about. It's an instant "I win" button. Either, we have an infinite amount of tries to get it right or there is simply no answer to the problem. Controllable time machines are the story tellers equivelant of the very first character we all make in RP. Super awesome, and really tough, and smart, and an expert hand to hand fighter and never misses a shot, and he wasn't surprised becasue he's always scanning the area for threats and any blow that lands isa glancing blow and he's doing you a favor by admiring you for even doing that much to him in his awesomeness. Also, he's half dragon-half tiger-half elf but he took all his beauty from his elf mother and the elves all hate him for his mongrel heritage but they secretly wish they were as awesome. And the elf princess loves him but can never be with him, even though they had a secret magical night that no one will ever know about but them two. Bonus points if you are the kid of that magical night.

I'm guessing this comment was built for a different thread :)

This is absolutley how I prefer it. Personally, I'd rather be one lone ordinary zombie in an army of undead lead by a master liche than be anything special. When the player is small, it allows the world to be as big as possible. But I also understand that other players want to be heroic in their games. I think GW2 makes a nice compromise. We aren't slating elder dragons solo. For the most part, we are leading the group who does most of the initial heavy lifting while the rest of the world gears up and fights the world fights. They are starting to fall into the Mary sue trap with Aurene and our proximity to special characters who have special relationships with "Aurenes" but so far, we aren't the ones getting the power ups. It's not where I'd prefer to be but it is a compromise that keeps us from being the gods of the story.

Ehh, asuran science revolves around the rules of magic and how they all connect everything. I don't see them taking a hogwash approach toward magic at all. They just wouldn't be prone to get caught up in the less academic aspects like legends and glory but they'd look at the exact same things with a scientific and examining mind set.

Im okay with this. It tells us we are pretty high up, just not the highest up. It feels like a good balance. I'd rather not be a god amongst mortals and I understand people want to feel important in the story. This seems like a good balance. When we are always the top-most dog, we run into problems later on about why we didn't just easily slay the next big bad after having done it multiple times before. Then the writers have to keep making the next big bad exponentially bigger and badder than the last until it gets ridiculous. edit: (I know from your post that being the toppest dog is not what you're asking for. I'm like you, I'd rather be as small as possible becasue it makes the world as big as possible. but, a lot of people like to feel like they are important in their stories.) The problem is that we are top dog, which is why Bangar keeps having to try and keep us in check. I mean, we're the defacto leader of the pact nobody will question (even Almorrah or Logan), slayer of 3 Elder Dragons, Slayer of gods, and have the favour of a certain Elder dragon. If the commander willed it, they could easily topple a government or five - a power we exercised to dethrone a certain lich god-king.We aren't. We're just high up there. We didn't slay 3 elder dragons, we were involved in the slaying of 3 elder dragons. We lead a group of heroes who have repeatedly shown that they have other priorities other than the group we lead. And often leave group business to handle what must be more important to them. i.e.: Logan wouldn't help topple his queen. You're taking examples of being high up and using it to extrapolate an illogical extreme.

There are a lot of human bandits and rebels still striking at the charr in Ascalon though.

(Wrong post)

imgur.com/a/jWcfvLz We've actually seen very little of Cantha

I don't think it'd be too much of a coincidence. They'd have both the motivation to study due to the plague and the government backing their projects. Personally , I'd stay away from large scale government decisions but something like this doesn't need to be large scale at all. It'd be akin to a country taking their leading scientist in any given field and giving them a small team to see what he could do with it. In fact, they wouldn't even need to have hylek in the borders. All they'd need is the motivation to issue "travel visas" to people working on behalf of the government. And that motivation is there from the plague. They definitely did, especially so in the three continents explored - which, of course, includes Cantha. Definitely theory crafting. This is the lore forums after all. But I'd disagree strongly on fanfic as we're looking for solid in-lore room to work with. I know you're more of a purist. So you tend to be a bit more conservative in what you think is possible or likely in lore but A-net has written a scenario where so much time has passed and so many world altering events have happened that the actual lorepossibilities are vast. More likely, to change or expand upon, I would think, than to hold onto the idea that nothing has changed beyond what the player could see in game hundreds of years ago. It was mentioned that there was a large portion that went unexplored by players in game. Is it possible that this portion could hold swamps or forests?

In most circumstances, I'd agree. However, Cantha is not only isolated by law, but also by a vast ocean which in the past 200 years has seen the addition of the DSD's minions - even before this, it was considered a challenging journey to sail (hence why the sea between Tyria/Elona and Cantha is called the Clashing Seas). And with 200 years and authoritative rule, it's very plausible that the vast majority of non-humans in Cantha were either enslaved, exterminated, or exiled. Those that weren't, are likely small pockets that have to constantly move to avoid being found. Most "real world borders" talked about are land borders, but Cantha only has sea borders, which changes the playing field quite a bit. I'm not saying it'd be impossible to smuggle a group into Cantha - but an entire colony that had no prior contact with Cantha and no insider? Seems downright impossible unless Canthans have since removed their xenophobic/isolationist tendencies. Yes! Pockets of species is what I'm suggesting. Any concerted effort would be made by the human civilization of Cantha. So, they would have exiled/enslaved/killed other civilizations that they knew about or could find. So, ogres may not be an option becasue they live pretty obviously unless they were underground but hylek, could have larger groups in woods and swamps the way bandits would hide out from the city states and fiefdoms who ruled their territiories. Much in the vein of Robinhood and his merry men. Humans aren't the alpha species in GW that they are in the real world. While it is possible that they have spread over the land like a plague, it is also possible that they didn't. Or, that they have been culled by dragons or some other threat. But, using Robinhood type bands as an example, if humans can hide from humans in woods and forests, it is possible that species that are more suited to survive in the wild could also hide out. Possibly using naturaly dangerous terrain to stay hidden and to help discourage much investigation into their areas. I'm thinking something like creating or supporting a "haunted forest" mythos by making sure they stay unseen and making sure there are few who come back out after going in.

To add to Jimbru's point about completely sealing a border, the lore says Cantha banished all non human races. It doesn't say that Cantha had the ability to cover every inch of their terrain. And seeing the playable races national ability to police their own terrain, it is highly unlikely that Cantha could actually make sure that there were no non humans hidden in their lands.

Why would you hesitate to call tengu wildlife but not hylek? Anywhere there is swamp or jungle, hylek could potentially be. If the Canthans looked at hylek as animals, they would have been excluded from banishment as a "nonhuman" race. So, you have room to work. I'd just stay away from any personal lore that tries to make big descisions on behalf of the Canthan nation.

Actually prior to the information that Glint was previously an Elder Dragon Champion she did not disclose that fact to Destiny's Edge or others.She intentionally hid that information from those who were not aware of it, likely fearing that mortals would turn on her if they knew. When Destiny's Edge first learned of her origins they actually tried to kill her, but she defeated them, spared their lives and told them the truth about her past and convinced them of her intentions to fight her former master, which she later proved beyond doubt when she died fighting Kralkatorrik. They tried to kill an unknown dragon spawn until they saw that she proved herself an ally. The Sylvari and pale Tree have the benefit of already having proved themselves allies.

I think the thread topic is flawed. A lot of the classes are pretty diverse. And the races take a diverse approach to them. e.g. Lot's of posts limiting the charr. Should be noted that each Legion utilizes all the classes. But every toon we make in any legion has the option to be best friends with an elementalist and a guardian in their own Legion. So, while the Blood Legion may be more melee focused, they'd be more apt to utilize more melee oriented elementalists. And Norn pick any job they want to make their legend and run with it 100%. So while there may be more human engineers, the Norn engineer is more likely to be better becasue the Norn takes his job more seriously as it be come his/her one true purpose in life. The base engineer is equipment is charr. But the photon forge looks solidly asuran. So rather than looking for which class goes with which racial thematic, I'd look at how each race approaches each class becasue each race uses each class.

I think a hard system is beneficial for one reason in that it determines a definitive physics for the story. That physics can then be discussed and speculated on. That's cool. But I see a hard system as being problematic for a couple reasons. First, it defies the basic point of magic in the story in that it is extremely confining. That confinement binds the hands of the writers who are now subject to those rules. Each writer has to have a solid understanding of those rules in order to have any workable idea for the story. But, the classic benefit of writing magic is the ability to create and solve problems without needing to … solve actual problems. Loose rules allows the story to flow in potentially any direction the writers see fit. Hard rules are more determining and they eliminate a lot more options. The second problem I see is that hard rules becomes a science. It requires the in-lore races to pay attention and perform that science at a standard level. And, as you've alluded to, that basic operating level that would be explored is solidly the key characteristic of only one race. To require the other races to be at the asuran level takes a whole lot away from the asura while giving them nothing in return. In effect, the payoff isn't worth the cost except to those who are only interested in discussing a working quasi-quantum field system at the cost of the story and the game.

I notice we're trying to separate Sylvari from the Pale Tree when talking about their protection from other dragons corruption. But it seems the "natural order" for how sylvari were supposed to operate as dragon minions was in symbiosis with the Pale Tree. So, the Sylvari may well be immune to corruption from other ED's but the "mechanical" method is through the Pale Tree as her fruit and spawn as she was the fruit and spawn of her own patron ED. Now, as a dragon champion, she still has ability to provide power to her own "adds" without needing a constant empowerment from her former patron becasue as a champion, her power was imbued in order for her to act as a trusted general.

Im okay with this. It tells us we are pretty high up, just not the highest up. It feels like a good balance. I'd rather not be a god amongst mortals and I understand people want to feel important in the story. This seems like a good balance. When we are always the top-most dog, we run into problems later on about why we didn't just easily slay the next big bad after having done it multiple times before. Then the writers have to keep making the next big bad exponentially bigger and badder than the last until it gets ridiculous. edit: (I know from your post that being the toppest dog is not what you're asking for. I'm like you, I'd rather be as small as possible becasue it makes the world as big as possible. but, a lot of people like to feel like they are important in their stories.)

Ehh, Glint has no issue with being ED spawn. I don't think the Pale Tree would or the Sylvari since they have proven themselves the whole time.