Twilight Tempest.7584

Yep, sometimes. Remember that if and when other things finally get nerfed. :)

. I generally agree with these posts. I want to see what happens with the current meta builds before daring to ask for Mesmer buffs. I mean some in the community don't even want to let us have the third jaunt back even with the 50% c/d increase. Jaunt, a basic utility skill that passes as an "elite" skill for which Mirages have no better alternative. Tone down power-crept meta specs and condi mitigation, then revisit after.

TLDRNerf every class but the one I play FIFY: TLDRNerf every class but the one I play that's still power-crept and hasn't already been toned down like the rest.

+1 I always get a chuckle out of "its unfun to play against". Nothing in any game is "fun to play against". Theyre fun to kill, thats where the fun is. And if you get killed you keep not having fun same as before. I disagree. Really enjoyed dueling some builds like GS power mes or rangers before HoT. They've had telegraphed and balanced abilities, so if you got hit it was because you screwed up, and if you dodged the right things you were rewarded for it. I felt good when I had won, and I wasn't frustrated when I lost because I knew that I just got outplayed - but now I knew how that happened and what I needed to do differently so I was always looking forward to the next duel where I could improve the results. Now it's just a powercreeped nonstop spamfest where if you're not dodging/blocking 90% of the time you'll get oneshot by random things because even autoattacks can hit for 25% of my HP.I really think this hinders newcomers and thus PvP population growth more than is often realized. Spammy, dumbed-down gameplay, though more accessible on its face, ironically makes the learning curve higher. It's harder to understand what's going on, what works and what doesn't, what killed you, and what to avoid with the hyper-paced, visual overload on screen. Telegraphs get overlapped, hidden, or otherwise lost in the visual noise. This leads to frustration and burnout. Only the most committed really stand a chance of deciphering most of what's going on. Also doesn't make for good spectating (RIP e-sports).

I'm sad about ele too, but ATM mesmer is completely out of scene.. I hope anet balance ele too... This is not a counter balance post... For the most part Mesmer is so called "out of meta" because of poor mind state of most of its players. Mesmer has been broken for so so so long that most of them are no longer able to tell the difference between Broken OP and Normal, so now when its not pathetic ez mode they think it is not viable, while the truth is it is perfectly viable (some of its Meta builds at least) just no longer broken. Agreed. Tbh mesmer is only out of "meta" because of things like scrapper. Condi mes will absolutely wreck warrior and can do fair against rifle holo. The passive Condi dmg is still absolutely incredible. If you don't have consistent cleansing. You will be forced to leave node. But even then it's still viable as a Condi dps. If you watch ATs there are mesmers that just go. Stack Condi on and leave. It's not god like. Unlike before but it's absolutely playable. Spellbreaker has always had the tools to 100% stall out a condition mirage, even post phantasm rework when a number of mesmer abilities were super charged. Tthe tools that allowed Spellbreakers to stall out a condition mirage's damage out put were never nerfed. Heck, they only got buffed. Shake It Off was power crept back in July 2018. Berserker Stance was changed in November 2017 and it was a horizontal change that reduced it's duration and it's cooldown. And with the Last Stand trait you came out tiny bit ahead. It's just the fact of the matter that Spellbreaker always had the tools to completely stall out condition mirage. Don't believe me? Go watch the Mist Challenger's tournament. All of the game's best players coming together to compete over a $2000 prize pool including Rank 55 Dragons and Team USA facing off in the finals. This tournament happened after the phantasm rework super charged a lot of mesmer capabilities. Every time one of the condition mesmers went up against one of the spellbreakers it resulted in a perpetual stall out. Are you really going to call Misha and Zeromis trash mesmers who don't know how to think about playing and weren't putting in effort? What changed was that Arenanet power crept the hell out of Physical Skills. Bull's Rush, Rampage in particular and the Peak Performance trait. Suddenly every Spellbreaker found out with Magebane Tether they could casually toss out 10k Arcing Slices and Whirlind Blades, 6k Damage Bull's Rushes. And it turns out being able to thoughtlessly two shot most builds after ramping up some might even before you go into Rampage is more effective against everything that isn't a condition mirage enough to make the worse match up against that particular build, especially when that build is largely dead now. Spellbreakers can stall out condition mirages even now. They just chose to not run the build that does so in favor of better match ups against everything else since nothing runs condition damage anymore. Yeah no. Watch shorts. Watch him destroy warriors in p3 quite quickly. Warrior has 2 cleanses that's it even with thether u don't get enough healing to out sustain condi. There's no way it can sustain enough to stall out Condi mesmer. U are seriously making kitten up about 10k arching slice. Those warriors are strength warriors who aren't running the traits and utiliities they have that easily deal with condition mirage because it's better for them that they don't because no one runs condition damage anymore. I can see the leaderboard right now. You aren't. Then you are obviously just making kitten up then. How can a warrior not run strength traits hit u for 10k? You're not reading my posts correctly. Im saying meta spellbreaker is giving up outsustaining condition mesmers in favor of those 10k crits. It's a deliberate choice. You are right in that I miss read.my mistake on that. Yes strength warrior is back because the likes of scrapper and prot Holo are here. But overall I believe that to be a good thing. Because now that you see warrior you can go mesmer. If you see engineer you can go warrior. And if you see mesmer you can scrapper. There are absolutely p1 and p2 mesmers I face all the time and I am forced to use scrapper. Where they can just out rotate. I still by that Condi mes is not dead. Just takes more knowledge now than before where you passively win fights. Strength spellbreaker is here because multiple patches thoughout 2018 power crept the strength tree and physicals. Spellbreakers were 1vXing holos and scrappers and mirages long before the strength buffs.I honestly believe you need to play warrior till 1600 to fully understand. It's not a easy 2 button hit win as u make it out to be. Especially not at 1600+ Literally every player on every build thinks this way about their profession. Pretty much. Which is why I play something different all the time. I did thief unsuccessfully, mes,Holo,scrapper, war. Doing ranger next. I will go back to Condi mes and prove you can get to plat on it. That's respectable. But.. if you do it next season after everything else possibly gets nerfed, it's not quite the same as pulling it off last season. Different metas.

It would help if the currently power-crept stuff like Holo, SB, Rev, SLB, Scrapper, and maybe Scourge and FB were toned down. I would prefer reverse-power-creeping over more power-creeping as a means to level the playing field.

Do you have anything else to add to the discussion other then "there is no problem, just get gud!"? Don't take it personally. It's what he does. Blindly defend his main to the end and ignore inconvenient truths. In fact, he legit wants Sic 'Em buffed. I mean you have mesmer portrait, anyone who plays condi mesmer can't complain. Thanks for the meme! :joy: Not a meme, i got up from down the other day and immediately had 17 stacks of torment ticking on me for like 5k per tick. Along with chain invuls and evades, clones and mobility you literally have everything.So basically one condi-clear would nullify all of it? Would you rather get hit with 5-digit unblockable damage in 2 seconds from 1800+ range that can't be "cleansed" after the fact by pressing one button? Those numbers seem a bit.. exaggerated anyhow, even for WvW. Anyway, let's not derail this with the "but mes" meme any further, shall we?

Do you have anything else to add to the discussion other then "there is no problem, just get gud!"? Don't take it personally. It's what he does. Blindly defend his main to the end and ignore inconvenient truths. In fact, he legit wants Sic 'Em buffed. I mean you have mesmer portrait, anyone who plays condi mesmer can't complain.Thanks for the meme! :joy:

Do you have anything else to add to the discussion other then "there is no problem, just get gud!"? Don't take it personally. It's what he does. Blindly defend his main to the end and ignore inconvenient truths. In fact, he legit wants Sic 'Em buffed.

One can only hope. Though I have noticed a gradual uptick in complaints about the other meta builds lately. They're even getting their own complaint threads, though not nearly to the extent mesmer has. It's like people are finally seeing the elephant in the room with this upcoming patch where Soulbeast, Scrapper, Holo, and Spellbreaker are completely untouched as far as nerfs, while Mesmer's year of nerfs continues. Soulbeast, Scrapper, Holo, and Spellbreaker are all some of the most balanced, highest risk high reward, highest skill cap builds to have ever existed in the history of this game. Mirage deserved all the nerfs it got and then some. Even what they've done isn't enough to kitten mirage and kitten mesmer as a whole. I am enjoying your troll posts. :joy: I hope you're right. I do get the sense that the updates are always however many months behind the meta, and it's a prolonged period of catch-up. I'd like to say that with this latest update they have pretty much "caught up" to Mesmer's degree of being over tuned. They've deleted the top two remaining things even honest Mes mains said were broken: Evasive Mirror and Scepter 3 damage. It's debatable whether they addressed these in the best way, but they took several swings of the nerf bat nonetheless. Unfortunately, too many of the nerfs to Mesmer in its ongoing 12-months+ of nerfs are simply numbers tweaks rather than reworks. Mesmer aside, if we don't start seeing some serious attention towards the other meta specs in the next update, that will be disappointing. It is just taking way too long to address major problems with overperforming builds. It shouldn't have taken a year to nerf Mesmers, especially considering it was mostly numbers tweaks, and it should not take so long for the other builds either. I think they ought to focus on balancing long-known over-performing builds (the power creep is real) before spending so much time reworking (previously) lesser used specs like Scrapper, Berserker, and Druid. Bring everything down to a reasonable level. Then, and only then, start bringing certain things up. There's several other overperforming meta builds right now to be sure, but of them all chronobunk/mirage have been overtuned the longest, with soulbeast a close second. Portal nerf sucked, Steal nerf is par for the course. Arenanet has a habit of just shanking thieves for no clear reason, labeled as for the sake of balance. They had exhaustion specially made for them and were beaten upside the head with it just out of the blue when someone in the balance team thought unhindered was too strong, and that thieves needed to have their endurance disabled if someone clipped them with cripple, even though Don't Stop in acrobatics does the same thing and thief's best heal removes the effects that would cause exhaustion by default. Then there was the sudden sword thief nerf. Before that it was the "we feel thieves shouldnt do damage now" phase, where people quit their thieves because there was no reason to use them in pvp. Before that it was the sudden removal of ricochet, I was surprised for the former, but not for the latter. at this point I'm used to just playing harder every patch on thief. Sometimes I look to the history of thief nerfs in order to comprehend the ongoing history of mesmer nerfs. :/

One can only hope. Though I have noticed a gradual uptick in complaints about the other meta builds lately. They're even getting their own complaint threads, though not nearly to the extent mesmer has. It's like people are finally seeing the elephant in the room with this upcoming patch where Soulbeast, Scrapper, Holo, and Spellbreaker are completely untouched as far as nerfs, while Mesmer's year of nerfs continues.

Another balance update, some more Mesmer nerfs. That hasn't been new for the past year. What is astonishing is how the other power-crept specs continue escaping. Nerfs are fine, but they need to be applied evenly. This is getting ridiculous.

I really like @Curunen.8729's suggestions too. Cutting back c/d on IA to 25s or 30s at most, Jaunt back to 20s (of all the recent changes to c/d, I feel this one the most), and making IH a minor while replacing it with something useful are no brainers. Maybe something with some condition mitigation as an alternative to EM (which itself could stand to be reworked), since Mirage rather lacks in that department.

That's kind of what I was getting at here when I asked if Mesmer was the only class getting straight nerfs and no buffs. Without compensating elsewhere for nerfs, or reworking underutilized mechanics, the last balance update further narrowed choices and solidified already fairly singular ones. The last several balance updates in fact seem to funnel people into an ever shrinking number of viable builds, rather than enabling build diversity. Major one from previous update: Gut portal? Push everyone to Illusionary Ambush.With this latest update: Stack exhaustion? Elusive Mind is even more useless than it already was. IH is still the only choice. Might as well make it baseline as many have suggested.Nerf Ineptitude (and by extension its synergy with Blinding Dissipation)? Anyone who wasn't already running Evasive Mirror and Deceptive Evasion will now.Nerf Axe (for like the second or third time)? Guess they want more scepter. Though tbf, axe still does enough. It's in an okay place now.These are just the obvious things that we already know. Just wish there was a little more "give" with their "take", not to keep certain builds OP, but to allow for variety and diversity.