Virt's tradeoffs

[darwins ghost.7961]

Virtuoso has zero mobility, as in nada. Doubt it will get much added in whatever rework Anet plans to do. It is a dead class to me if it has no ability to kite, close and open gaps, etc. 

[Yoci.2481]

It has sword 3, which is pretty good. But other than that its not so good looking.

[Hirosama Nadasaki.6792]

On 8/25/2021 at 10:22 AM, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

I think a mechanic-by-mechanic comparison misses the point: 

• The playstyle of the Virtuoso is much more  accessible and much less demanding than Chrono or Mirage, and I expect is aimed more at new and non-mes players.
•  

 

While that is valid on paper, in practice it falls short, since the amount of effort the class will demand depends entirely on how it performs. With the current numbers and mechanics on the class, a virtuoso player would need to put in way more effort than a mirage or a core mesmer in order to achieve the same result, simply because it's so weak. And that's not to mention the comparison to other classes. In other words, although Virtuoso is much simpler to play, it's so weak that you'll need to play it perfectly to achieve adequate results.

 

Yes, yes, I get it, numbers can be changed at any time bla bla bla, but that doesn't excuse the current state of virtuoso. Just because Anet *can* give the class bigger numbers fairly easily, doesn't mean they *will*, hence why we need to consider the class as it is balanced right now.

[Levetty.1279]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:22 PM, TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

• The playstyle of the Virtuoso is much more  accessible and much less demanding than Chrono or Mirage, and I expect is aimed more at new and non-mes players.
•  

That is nice, can Mesmer players have a elite spec in this expansion too though?

[Salt Mode.3780]

Its funny how people say numbers can change, what numbers cannot change is how mechanically weak Virtuoso is compared to even Willbender.

 

There is a difference between weak because of numbers vs. weak because of mechanics. One of them is easier to fix then the other, but I wonder what could that be.

[MrAmputatoes.6031]

On 8/26/2021 at 7:16 PM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Its funny how people say numbers can change, what numbers cannot change is how mechanically weak Virtuoso is compared to even Willbender.

 

There is a difference between weak because of numbers vs. weak because of mechanics. One of them is easier to fix then the other, but I wonder what could that be.

If they change numbers, they'll nerf things due to the 43k DPS.

[mungozen.2379]

I was massively underwhelmed with the Virtuoso.  I got the idea that they made it to give Mesmer an eSpec that players won’t complain about. Either be good enough to deal with all the drawbacks, or don’t play it.

 

I didn’t anticipate Virtuoso to be so underwhelming and am looking at the upcoming especs to see if they are as janky as it. Bigger conspiracy theory, PoF eSpecs get nerfed to balance EoD eSpecs. We can already see how OP older eSpecs are, and I can’t imagine Anet will let the new especs not be played due to being worse than the older ones. 
 

 

[Hackuuna.4085]

On 8/23/2021 at 11:08 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

So I'm making this thread on behalf of someone, this takes beta into account. Somethings might be solved on release or not.

We lose:
- Distortion
- IP
- Clones (as a survival tool)
- Tracking shatters
- Shatters' damage, since 3 clones outdamage 5 blades
- Instant shatters
- No face requirement shatters
- Non reflectable shatters
- Stealth (everything reveals you if you spec the top traits, middle row middle trait, dagger 3)

We win:
- 1200 range shatters
- Blades don't reset on kill/out of combat
- Channeling block that deals (awful) damage

Seems to me we're giving up way more than we're receiving.

 

We do gain better boon rip on shatters when traited, though some of it might end up being nerfed.

1. F1 rips up to 5 on a target, 5 targets max.
2. F2 rips up to 10 on a target (if you use the double hitting F2 from point blank range). Theoretically can hit 5 targets max but they'd have to be super stacked.
3. F4 rips 1 boons per pulse (I think 6-8 pulses?) per target.

We do lose boon rips on F3 though:

1. F3 rips only 1 boon, and counts as only 1 CC for the additional boon rip (down to 2 from 8 potential with clones). RIP F3.

I'd also argue that superspeed chrono clones on shatter move about as fast as the F1 projectiles when factoring the animations, so the 1200 range advantage there isn't as great.