Ground target Shatters; Could be great!

[SkinnyT.5382]

A few moths ago someone suggested this and people were very quick to shut it down, but I want to bring this suggestion back up because I think this can be a great thing. Let's take the  Chrono for instance. There's nothing really unique about it anymore, other that shatters gives the mesmer self alacrity, so why not also make them ground target aoe? In fact I suggest going a step further and make it so there would be additional effects on those targeted spots. So for example say F1 would shatter the clones; giving the Mesmer alacrity and causing immediate damage to the targeted location you clicked (as if the clones had run there), but then there could be a rift created on that location with a slow animation that would explode after it is done, causing massive damage to enemies around it (similar to the original version of a Ritualist Skill in guild wars 1 called Spirit Rift, where an orb raised from-the ground for 3 seconds and than released several lightning strikes around it).  The same would be done for F2 and F3 with condition and CC effects respectively. Each shatter with it's unique aoe animation and effects, some of which could even change based on the number of clones shattered. They would be highly visible so player's can dodge it , but also deadly for those who are not paying attention.

This would distinguish the E-spec from others. It would could give unique game play to the class by combining the recharge boost from the alacrity and the slow acting second-effect of the shatters. It would play with the theme of time, without actually making the Mesmer control it. It would also provide good synchronicity with other professions that are good at pinning down enemies, or holding aggro. While also making close combat with a Chrono challenging as they could target the area they are standing in and have those animations expire on their location.

This change would have a huge impact on Chronomancer, without even having to change it's traits or other skills.

[Noodle Ant.1605]

tbh i was thinking of something similar where chrono shatters are replaced with aoe “rifts” but with a slight catch: f1 remains a generic shatter. the basic idea was that f1 serves a short cd clone-consuming “rewinder” for the comparatively longer cd f2-f4 rift skills. the idea i had for f2 is very similar to what is described where the chrono creates a rift that explodes for big dmg after a short delay

theres a few issues, however:

1) anet doesnt seem to want to touch any non-eod espec until after launch unless its a “bugfix”

2) this is a rework level suggestion which wont be implemented because the scope is too big

3) it might not actually be supported by other players, just look at the eod spec outrage (some of the general ideas are actually long-time suggestions of players)

[Tseison.4659]

So I had come up with this suggestion a while ago, mainly for having the Chronomancers F1-F3 shatters, just be ground targeted “time zones,” which basically depending on how many clones you destroyed, will increase the radius of the F skill wherever you place it.

Basically the elite spec would not be clone focused and though you can summon them still, their main purpose is to just act as fuel for the “time zones”. 

Additionally, I said that our current wells should either have their radius increased or cast off of the Mesmer themselves, except Gravity Well. This would help with lessening allies from stepping out our wells and potentially missing out on boons/heals.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Tseison.4659

[Xaylin.1860]

I would be all for either targeted AoE or pulsing Shatters (more than what they did to F1) to create a bigger distinction.

 

The issue I see here are Wells. It would kinda be more of the same. That's not necessarily bad but takes away versatility. That's also something I disliked about the Willbender. While think that the idea (not implementation...) for the new Virtues is interesting... what is the point of giving the Physicals that offer even more mobility? It also makes OH Sword less appealing. 

[Fueki.4753]

I'd not like for Arenanet to change enemy-targetted skills into ground-targetted skills.

If anything, the opposite should happen.

[SkinnyT.5382]

3 hours ago, Tseison.4659 said:

So I had come up with this suggestion a while ago, mainly for having the Chronomancers F1-F3 shatters, just be ground targeted “time zones,” which basically depending on how many clones you destroyed, will increase the radius of the F skill wherever you place it.

Basically the elite spec would not be clone focused and though you can summon them still, their main purpose is to just act as fuel for the “time zones”. 

Additionally, I said that our current wells should either have their radius increased or cast off of the Mesmer themselves, except Gravity Well. This would help with lessening allies from stepping out our wells and potentially missing out on boons/heals.

I love your idea for the wells casting off the mesmer. I thought about that possibly being how chrono shatters could work if it was made to be a support spec. Where shatters would have a double effect. Dmg + condi on enemies, and healing + boons on allies. Since chrono has the shield it would provide great versatility for close and long distance combat where placement would be vital for best effect. When you said "time zones" what would their effect be exactly? The idea of increasing in size based off the number of clones, is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about too.

 

4 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

tbh i was thinking of something similar where chrono shatters are replaced with aoe “rifts” but with a slight catch: f1 remains a generic shatter. the basic idea was that f1 serves a short cd clone-consuming “rewinder” for the comparatively longer cd f2-f4 rift skills. the idea i had for f2 is very similar to what is described where the chrono creates a rift that explodes for big dmg after a short delay

theres a few issues, however:

1) anet doesnt seem to want to touch any non-eod espec until after launch unless its a “bugfix”

2) this is a rework level suggestion which wont be implemented because the scope is too big

3) it might not actually be supported by other players, just look at the eod spec outrage (some of the general ideas are actually long-time suggestions of players)

I see what you mean with the F1, I just felt that if the rift was slow to activate that the there would not be a need to change the recharge. Instead you would just have the ability of being able to do a lot of ground control.

As far as the issues you mentioned

1) that would be expected working in multiple things like this wouldn't be beneficial for neither project, but it's wok that is worth doing.

2) I don't honestly think that this implementation would be that big of a scope. It ground target and aoe are not new to the game so it's not like coming up with something from scratch. Even animations could be borrowed from existing skills, and just tweaked to match the mesmer

3)No idea is ever fully supported by everyone. People will always kitten and moan, but then they'll get over it. They are all up an arms about the virtuoso , but the whole point of the e-specs is to be different than base profession, and provide a unique game play to the profession. That's what the virtuoso is doing, and what having a ground target on chrono would do too.

[SkinnyT.5382]

3 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

I'd not like for Arenanet to change enemy-targetted skills into ground-targetted skills.

If anything, the opposite should happen.

So you want all your skills to just automatically focus target?

[Fueki.4753]

24 minutes ago, SkinnyT.5382 said:

So you want all your skills to just automatically focus target?

Not all of them, but for some skills, the ground target is unnecessary and adds nothing but clunk.

a few examples:

Phoenix would be much more smooth if it homed in on the targetted enemy (hitting them twice in total) and than flying back.

Grasping Dead and Shatterstone should just activate at the target's location.

And don't forget that there are many people who click their skills, so ground-targetting is an actual detriment to their gameplay that should be kept as little as possible.

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Fueki.4753

[Tseison.4659]

2 hours ago, SkinnyT.5382 said:

I love your idea for the wells casting off the mesmer. I thought about that possibly being how chrono shatters could work if it was made to be a support spec. Where shatters would have a double effect. Dmg + condi on enemies, and healing + boons on allies. Since chrono has the shield it would provide great versatility for close and long distance combat where placement would be vital for best effect. When you said "time zones" what would their effect be exactly? The idea of increasing in size based off the number of clones, is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about too.

 Thank-you! ☺️ So for the "time zones" I would just see them as ground targeted shatter skills that have increase radius and effects depending on how many illusions you used to empower them with. The effects can vary depending on how unique you want the time manipulation based shatters to be like. But yeah, I'd definitely add boons such as alacrity and quickness as staples on the shatters, then for conditions that give off a "time manipulation" feel, I would throw in slow, chill, vulnerability and weakness.

[SkinnyT.5382]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Not all of them, but for some skills, the ground target is unnecessary and adds nothing but clunk.

a few examples:

Phoenix would be much more smooth if it homed in on the targetted enemy (hitting them twice in total) and than flying back.

Grasping Dead and Shatterstone should just activate at the target's location.

And don't forget that there are many people who click their skills, so ground-targetting is an actual detriment to their gameplay that should be kept as little as possible.

 

 

Ok, I see your point. However I also believe that the point of e-specs is to provide different ways of playing a character, and right now 3/4 of the mesmer specs shatters all the same way. Compared that to the Necro shroud, which right now 3/4  act very different from each other. If the chrono shatters were to become ground target it would vastly differentiate the chrono from other mesmer specs, by providing a very unique way of using them.  So although this 1 e-spec change could make it clunky for you, it could open a a lot of game play opportunities for others. Not to mention that  you would still have the option to have them auto target if you played base mesmer and mirage, and if I remember correctly with the virtuoso as well. The virtuoso's difference being that the shatters are projectiles.

I too click on my skills, but I would rather adjust to play a spec than have it be vanilla (at most). Not to mention that you can't be the best at everything, but you're less likely to be bored when you have more variety.

[Fueki.4753]

10 minutes ago, SkinnyT.5382 said:

 

Ok, I see your point. However I also believe that the point of e-specs is to provide different ways of playing a character, and right now 3/4 of the mesmer specs shatters all the same way. Compared that to the Necro shroud, which right now 3/4  act very different from each other. If the chrono shatters were to become ground target it would vastly differentiate the chrono from other mesmer specs, by providing a very unique way of using them.  So although this 1 e-spec change could make it clunky for you, it could open a a lot of game play opportunities for others. Not to mention that  you would still have the option to have them auto target if you played base mesmer and mirage, and if I remember correctly with the virtuoso as well. The virtuoso's difference being that the shatters are projectiles.

I too click on my skills, but I would rather adjust to play a spec than have it be vanilla (at most). Not to mention that you can't be the best at everything, but you're less likely to be bored when you have more variety.

Chronomancer's Shatters technically are different from core or Mirage.

Since you compared it to Necromancer, wouldn't better to use Mirage for such a change? That way, all specializations would have different Shatters from core, like all specialization Shrouds are different from core's.

Why would it have to be Chronomancer, which already got a full set of ground-targetting Utilities, that gets the ground-targetted Shatters?

[SkinnyT.5382]

21 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Chronomancer's Shatters technically are different from core or Mirage.

Since you compared it to Necromancer, wouldn't better to use Mirage for such a change? That way, all specializations would have different Shatters from core, like all specialization Shrouds are different from core's.

Why would it have to be Chronomancer, which already got a full set of ground-targetting Utilities, that gets the ground-targetted Shatters?

Let's be honest here; it really isn't different when you boil it down to it's basic effects. First, how you use it is the exactly same for all. You create clones then press an F1-5 key and shatter all (that are still alive). Mirage and core effects are exactly the same, so let's list the Chrono difference.  F1 gives you a second strike that does lower damage than the first, you technically can get that with the others by putting the trait that changes F1 into an ammo skill. F2 recharges faster based on clones used (the other effects are exactly the same as the other specs). F3 exactly the same on all 3. F4 is the only unique one which allows you to basically reset your self and your skills, as oppose to becoming distorted (aka invulnerable). All base and Mirage shatters happen on you and your target, meanwhile Chrono only happens at your target but gives alacrity per clone shattered as an offset (something which takes a minor trait spot to do btw).

Necro's shroud went from mid/long range skills with base Necro, to full close range skills with Reaper, to not a shroud at all but  a shade which is basically ground target aoe  that is then boosted by life-force with the Scourge. These mechanics are very distinctive and changes how you play the necro.

I didn't suggest mirage because it already has those different ambush skills, which already brings more variety to that spec. With that said, I also think mirage could have different effects for their shatters too just not as drastic as turning it to a ground target.