why are dungeons dead?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What am I supposed to argue with Alymer here? You brought up what I said and wrote something about "making up our mind". My mind is already "made up", I'm not some sort of hive mind. Not only that, but you were already arguing against what I said in this thread while carefully avoiding what I actually said about it.

Buddy…just read his comment maybe? He literally said raids are the replacement to dungeons…

 

Go, use eyes, read things. I’m out.

Edited December 27, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Sobx.1758]

Just now, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Buddy…just read his comment maybe? He literally said raids replaced dungeons…and that dungeons are nothing like fractals.

I did read his comment and as I already wrote above, it changes nothing about what was said by me before.

Just now, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Go, use eyes, read things.

Well said, literally right above your post:

4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

My mind is already "made up", I'm not some sort of hive mind, so someone else having different opinion on the matter doesn't change what I previously said

 

I see, without a change, all you do is dodge 🤷‍♂️

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

2 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I did read his comment and as I already wrote above, it changes nothing about what was said by me before.🤷‍♂️

Ya your though process doesn’t change because you believe in fairytale things.

 

Here’s some of your logic for you:

 

as Sobx I claim : that Humans replaced dinosaurs. I have no evidence for this but I know I’m right because humans are here now and dinosaurs ain’t here right now therefor the two things MUsT be cOrreLated. Because I’m sobx nothing can change my mind.

 

I’m Sir Aylmer now…I claim that humans didn’t replace dinosaurs but instead birds replaced dinosaurs because birds are more similar to dinosaurs.

 

Me: slow clapping… you guys believe in stuff that makes no sense. So I’m leaving.

 

Have fun buddy

[Sobx.1758]

6 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Ya your though process doesn’t change because you believe in fairytale things.

Nothing about that is a "fairytale" and you might have realised that some time ago, which is exactly why you keep dodging everything being said here.

"Go, use eyes, read things."  -and then time for second step: actually responding  😉 

Quote

Here’s some of your logic for you:

 

as Sobx I claim : that Humans replaced dinosaurs. I have no evidence for this but I know I’m right because humans are here now and dinosaurs ain’t here right now therefor the two things MUsT be cOrreLated. Because I’m sobx nothing can change my mind.

So... still with the completely irrelvant strawmen? Maybe try responding to what I actually keep writing? It's almost as if you're specifically trying to confirm you're doing what I said you're doing: ignoring anything what's being written. You don't need to admit you're wrong when you just constantly dodge, eh? 🙄 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Maybe try responding to what I actually keep writing?

I guess you misunderstand me here. I have no interest in arguing with you on this topic...I'm amused by how bad the logic is and that's why it's fun to make all these strawmen using this logic. In other words I'm poking fun at it...not really arguing with you about it. You cherish the logic that's why you feel some type of way...still.

If you want a real response to your argument the response is simple: Post hoc ergo propter hoc. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Sobx.1758]

28 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I guess you misunderstand me here. I have no interest in arguing with you on this topic...I'm amused by how bad the logic is and that's why it's fun to make all these strawmen using this logic. In other words I'm poking fun at it...not really arguing with you about it. You cherish the logic that's why you feel some type of way...still.

If you want a real response to your argument the response is simple: Post hoc ergo propter hoc. 

You never showed "how bad the logic is", since you repeatedly failed to respond to anything written in the thread.. By now you probably know you're wrong, it's as simple as that. From the very beggining all you do is come up with irrelevant strawmen and think it changes anything about what was said here, which is consistently hilarious in its naivity. Meanwhile all you have to do to understand I'm correct -and you're arguing hypotheticals for the sake of arguing- is pay attention to what the game spells out for you 🙄

 

And you've already presented the lack of ability to actually make logical comparison with this post:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/103714-why-are-dungeons-dead/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-1507617

which, again, was explained to you and subsequentially ignored by you, since you understood you were wrong. 🤷‍♂️

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

7 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Anet could drop a new dungeon update tomorrow for all we know. Like mentioned previously….the criteria for this assumption is not real.
 

Its a belief…a conspiracy…a hunch…whatever you want to call it…that’s what that is.

That’s also why it happens to be logically inconsistent …like most hunches, beliefs and conspiracies are. One guy over here says “raids replaced dungeons,” another guy says “fractals replaced dungeons,” well which is it? Make up your mind.
 

In conclusion there is no truth to any of this made up logic until you actually have evidence…that’s what it actually means for something to be true lol…smh

Highly unlikely that there will be a new dungeon considering that the developers specifically stated that they would not be doing anymore four to the coding and that everything would be geared towards fractals. It’s one thing to argue about logic but it’s completely different to ignore facts. 

[mythical.6315]

Double post

Edited December 27, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Sobx.1758]

43 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Guess i have to dumb it down for you.

 

You can believe whatever you want to believe but  I do not need to disprove your believes. The burden is on you to prove your believes. Until that happens there is no argument. There is only me, poking fun at the fairytale world you created until you prove me wrong with evidence that backs up your claims...not the other way around buddy. 

Cool attempts at personal attacks after you've repeatedly shown you have nothing relevant to say on-topic. 🤷‍♂️ 

It's not a matter of "believing whatever I want", it's a matter of you ignoring facts for the sake of pretending you're not completely wrong here. Fractals are new type of dungeons that were created in place of the old dungeons -in other words, fractals replaced the old dungeons. It really is rather simple.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

8 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Fractals are new type of dungeons that were created in place of the old dungeons

This is your claim and I’ll hold you to that claim. Prove it.

 

A statement from Anet saying this is more then enough evidence to suffice.

[Sobx.1758]

27 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

This is your claim and I’ll hold you to that claim. Prove it.

 

A statement from Anet saying this is more then enough evidence to suffice.

Check the release information about fractals talking about new dungeons FotM or even just read the information the game provides to you when you level up. Now you know where the proof is, but I'm not doing the legwork for you, so -as always- feel free to continue proving you're bent on arguing about things you have no idea about. Anyone else can see you for what you are 🤷‍♂️

Edited December 28, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

17 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

I agree

Great. Let's see the statement, and end this discussion. Least you understand how to have a discussion unlike this guy Sobx. Not even being sarcastic or anything i genuinly want this discussion to end because he will not stop and it's just getting annoying to read his canned responses when he could just do what you are doing and just provide evidence of his claim.

 

I'll have to defer this to someone else as it's likely on the old forums and it's difficult to search through the archives for a singular post assuming that it wasn't in one of their live streams.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by mythical.6315

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

9 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

Anet could drop a new dungeon update tomorrow for all we know. Like mentioned previously….the criteria for this assumption is not real.
 

Its a belief…a conspiracy…a hunch…whatever you want to call it…that’s what that is.

That’s also why it happens to be logically inconsistent …like most hunches, beliefs and conspiracies are. One guy over here says “raids replaced dungeons,” another guy says “fractals replaced dungeons,” well which is it? Make up your mind.
 

In conclusion there is no truth to any of this made up logic until you actually have evidence…that’s what it actually means for something to be true lol…smh

Tell me you weren't around when ANet cut development on dungeons without telling me  you weren't around for when ANet cut development on  dungeons.  We have literally gotten one new path and it brought the total amount of dungeon paths back up to what we had at vanilla since one path was  so bugged, ANet removed it entirely.  And that path came out in Season 1.

Do you not remember when ANet updated the troll in AC and it was using the  droptables of the troll from Honor of the Waves? Or how about the countless attempts to fix Forward-Up path in Twilight  Arbor only for the final boss to spawn an infinite amount of elite spiders? How about when ANet nerfed dungeon rewards at the advent of HoT? Maybe the fact that it's been over six years since the last dungeon was even announced?  Then there's the fact that ANet has moved on to strikes for instanced content.

Anet doesn't want to touch dungeon code.  Every time they do, something somewhere else breaks.  Believing ANet would do anything with dungeons is the conspiracy, the hunch, etc.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

This is your claim and I’ll hold you to that claim. Prove it.

 

A statement from Anet saying this is more then enough evidence to suffice.

Introducing a dungeon experience like no other— The Fractals of the Mists! You'll be pitted against a series of unique "fractal" mini-dungeons that get harder and harder as you progress, giving you unlimited levels of challenge!

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[OhNoASusan.4286]

50 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Tell me you weren't around when ANet cut development on dungeons without telling me  you weren't around for when ANet cut development on  dungeons.  We have literally gotten one new path and it brought the total amount of dungeon paths back up to what we had at vanilla since one path was  so bugged, ANet removed it entirely.  And that path came out in Season 1.

Do you not remember when ANet updated the troll in AC and it was using the  droptables of the troll from Honor of the Waves? Or how about the countless attempts to fix Forward-Up path in Twilight  Arbor only for the final boss to spawn an infinite amount of elite spiders? How about when ANet nerfed dungeon rewards at the advent of HoT? Maybe the fact that it's been over six years since the last dungeon was even announced?  Then there's the fact that ANet has moved on to strikes for instanced content.

Anet doesn't want to touch dungeon code.  Every time they do, something somewhere else breaks.  Believing ANet would do anything with dungeons is the conspiracy, the hunch, etc.

 

I'm didn't say Dungeons didn't get abandoned... That's the logical thing to believe actually...to say that they've been abandoned. The Claim being made and I quote, is whether "Fractals is a new type of dungeons that was created in place of the old dungeons" 

 

When you say X replaces Y, it means that Y gets removed in place of X...Do dungeons still exist? They do...so clearly fractals did not replace dungeons.

 

Dungeons were abandoned, Fractals were not abandoned Raids were not abandoned... this is the logical thing for a logical person to claim and a logical thing to believe. Anet if they WANTED to, could unabandon dungeons tomorrow...and the reason is because they haven't been REPLACED anything...they've just ABANDONED it.

 

Anyway, this is my alt, main got banned, so this is last comment you'll see from me. Not interested in this conversation anyway...not worth getting my account locked up for it. Guess since I'm now using this alt account that means this alt account replaces my old one... spooky.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

2 hours ago, OhNoASusan.4286 said:

 

I'm didn't say Dungeons didn't get abandoned... That's the logical thing to believe actually...to say that they've been abandoned. The Claim being made and I quote, is whether "Fractals is a new type of dungeons that was created in place of the old dungeons" 

 

When you say X replaces Y, it means that Y gets removed in place of X...Do dungeons still exist? They do...so clearly fractals did not replace dungeons.

 

Dungeons were abandoned, Fractals were not abandoned Raids were not abandoned... this is the logical thing for a logical person to claim and a logical thing to believe. Anet if they WANTED to, could unabandon dungeons tomorrow...and the reason is because they haven't been REPLACED anything...they've just ABANDONED it.

 

Anyway, this is my alt, main got banned, so this is last comment you'll see from me. Not interested in this conversation anyway...not worth getting my account locked up for it. Guess since I'm now using this alt account that means this alt account replaces my old one... spooky.

Anet's not going to remove content that's there.  They learned their lesson from season 1, lol.  And if your old account can't be accessed anymore or such, then yeah, it does.

In fact, even if your old account could still be accessed, if you didn't do anything on it at all, even log into it, technically speaking, you've abandoned that account and replaced it with your alt.  Despite, y'know, other people being able to send that account mail, tells, invite them to parties, etc.

[OhNoASusan.4286]

29 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Anet's not going to remove content that's there.  They learned their lesson from season 1, lol.  And if your old account can't be accessed anymore or such, then yeah, it does.

In fact, even if your old account could still be accessed, if you didn't do anything on it at all, even log into it, technically speaking, you've abandoned that account and replaced it with your alt.  Despite, y'know, other people being able to send that account mail, tells, invite them to parties, etc.

 

And like I said before, at anytime I can unabandon my main account if i wanted to...because it still exists. Therefor it hasn't been replaced. Just like how A-net can unabandon dungeons if they wanted to...because it still exists.

 

Imagine living in a world where you swap characters and thinking each time "This character has now replaced my other character"

Imagine living in a world where you have a kid, abandon him,  then have another kid and say you've replaced your kid.

Edited December 28, 2021 by OhNoASusan.4286

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

14 minutes ago, OhNoASusan.4286 said:

 

And like I said before, at anytime I can unabandon my main account if i wanted to...because it still exists. Therefor it hasn't been replaced. Just like how A-net can unabandon dungeons if they wanted to...because it still exists.

 

Imagine living in a world where you swap characters and thinking each time "This character has now replaced my other character"

Imagine living in a world where you have a kid, abandon him,  then have another kid and say you've replaced your kid.

Now you're just being pedantic and arguing semantics.

Yes, ANet could but would they?   With utmost confidence, I can say, no.  They've had over 6 years to do so and haven't.  Having lived through dungeons and seen the difficulty ANet has changing anything within them, I can assure you, they won't be touching anything with dungeons and the amount of dev-time it'd take to reinvent them in a way that'd make it easier to update isn't worth it when they've got Strikes and Fractals already.

[OhNoASusan.4286]

15 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

Now you're just being pedantic and arguing semantics.

Yes, ANet could but would they?   With utmost confidence, I can say, no.  They've had over 6 years to do so and haven't.  Having lived through dungeons and seen the difficulty ANet has changing anything within them, I can assure you, they won't be touching anything with dungeons and the amount of dev-time it'd take to reinvent them in a way that'd make it easier to update isn't worth it when they've got Strikes and Fractals already.

 

And I've been with the franchise for nearly 2 decades. Back in like 2012 or something they renounced support for Guild Wars 1...then what happened nearly 9 years later? They dropped an update for the game.

 

So...Gw2 didn't REPLACE gw1...they abandoned GW1 and at anytime they could go back to it if they WANTED to...and they did.

 

So about dungeons would they? Probably not...but nobody knows. But could they? Yes they can. They could get a new game director tomorrow and just announce that they will be focusing on dungeons and abandon fractals and raids for all we know. That decision is at their discretion not yours.

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

11 minutes ago, OhNoASusan.4286 said:

 

And I've been with the franchise for nearly 2 decades. Back in like 2012 or something they renounced support for Guild Wars 1...then what happened nearly 9 years later? They dropped an update for the game.

 

So...Gw2 didn't REPLACE gw1...they abandoned GW1 and at anytime they could go back to it if they WANTED to...and they did.

 

So about dungeons would they? Probably not...but nobody knows. But could they? Yes they can. They could get a new game director tomorrow and just announce that they will be focusing on dungeons and abandon fractals and raids for all we know. That decision is at their discretion not yours.

Man, all this evidence pointing to end of development for dungeons and you're acting like ANet could fullstop turn it around in teh next month and pump out dungeons like they're manufacturing gumdrops at a candy factory.  Nah, man, it's not going to happen.  Your example with GW1 != dungeon development in the slightest.  GW1 doesn't have huge spaghetti code issues that dungeons have nor does it have several REPLACEMENTS that are easier to develop for.

But also, I tire of this.  You've already been disproven with my above post from the official GW2 youtube calling Fractals, Dungeons.  You've nothing more than this pedantic argument over semantics which, in all honesty, means you've nothing left to discuss.

Feel free to get the last word in if that sates your ego, even throw up a reaction. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Sir Alymer.3406

[OhNoASusan.4286]

44 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You've already been disproven with my above post from the official GW2 youtube calling Fractals, Dungeons. 

 

True...but for clarification, Anet considers Dungeons, Fractals and Raids as all being dungeons. Strike Missions and Dragon Response Missions are classified as "Missions" and not dungeons. All of them are considered "Instanced Content"

 

The use of the word "dungeon" as a classifier is flavor text. They don't mean it literally that fractals and raids are replacements to open world dungeons, they are all just dungeons.

 

Strike Missions even though they are nearly identical to raids, are considered missions and not dungeons...so there's no logic to the flavor text.

Edited December 28, 2021 by OhNoASusan.4286

[Sobx.1758]

Apparently your main ""argument"" here is that they didn't rework old content into new one, which isn't any easier nor does it make more sense than just creating new one going forward. Fractals are very obviously the updated type of "old dungeons".

On 12/28/2021 at 9:58 AM, OhNoASusan.4286 said:

So...Gw2 didn't REPLACE gw1...they abandoned GW1 and at anytime they could go back to it if they WANTED to...and they did.

Cool, let everyone know when they release any new "old dungeon" and then maybe you'll have something to stand on here. For now, you're just... kind of wobbling around. Shouldn't hold your breath for too long though, considering past few years.

On 12/28/2021 at 9:58 AM, OhNoASusan.4286 said:

They could get a new game director tomorrow and just announce that they will be focusing on dungeons and abandon fractals and raids for all we know. That decision is at their discretion not yours.

But hey, "it's not a replacement, because maybe one day they'll go back on their decision!" (notably, in this context "they" = "maybe some new director will come and change things!"). Psst, lets unravel this mystery: when they maybe perhaps possibly one day "go back on their decision" (or "a new director" will), then it will stop being a replacement, but for now it still didn't stop being one 🤯 

btw hopefully when you get replacement parts for your pc, you don't call them "replacement parts", since at any point you can swap them back to the old ones. I mean you probably won't and it wouldn't make sense in the slightest, but you can, so "replacement parts" are not "replacement parts" unless the old ones are burnt to the core and 100% unfixable (...but what if you decide to put the burnt parts back in? It's unlikely, but you can do it, so just "unfixable" isn't even enough, according to your "logic"). Duh you can get a replacement for your old pc as a whole, but hey, what if one day you take your old one out of the trash, fix it (or not fix it, apparently irrelevant) and start using it for whatever inexplicable reason? Apparently you think it means when you were getting your replacement pc, it... wasn't really a replacement unless the old one is confirmed to be completely wiped out of the existance. That's literally the level of ""argumentation"" you're trying to use here. 🤦‍♂️

I mean, at this point it's rather clear you understand how silly your forceful nitpicking is, while you know you're wrong. The "maybe new director will come and go back on some decisions!" part is just a cherry on top of all the previous failed strawman attempts.

Edited December 29, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:11 AM, Sobx.1758 said:

 hopefully when you get replacement parts for your pc, you don't call them "replacement parts", since at any point you can swap them back to the old ones. 

 

When my 2TB hard drive is full, I will be sure to tell my tech to replace my hard drive rather than you know…just getting another one…because Balthazar  forbid the thought of having 2 Harddrives!

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

5 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

When my 2TB hard drive is full, I will be sure to tell my tech to replace my hard drive rather than you know…just getting another one…because Balthazar  forbid the thought of having 2 Harddrives!

That's not a replacement.  That's an addition.

But hey, I still have my old PCs from years ago, family desktops with old, dusty hard drives  filled with family photos (That I've backed up and migrated to my current PC), but all the computers back there still work.  At any moment I could boot up those PCs and use them, but I don't because my current rig is more powerful than both those  PCs in the back room combined so there's no reason to.  Technically, despite those other two PCs being just fine to run, my current PC replaces them as it makes them obsolete, especially since their OS won't be recieving updates anymore (WinXP and WinVista respectively)

[Sobx.1758]

6 hours ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

When my 2TB hard drive is full, I will be sure to tell my tech to replace my hard drive rather than you know…just getting another one…because Balthazar  forbid the thought of having 2 Harddrives!

Oh, so I guess despite repeating in "every other" post that you don't care and are gone from this thread, you... just keep going with not answering to what you're quoting? Nice. 😅 

As I said before, it's clear what you're doing here and it already failed.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Sobx.1758