Move the barrier from mace auto attack to mace skill 2 and 3

[SeTect.5918]

I have thought about this multiple times now.

A lot of players in Mesmer subforum cried about mechanist giving perma alac on auto attack...(I can even understand them somehow tbh)
However thats not the reason why i want the change, but it will also fix that issue.

The reason I want this to happen is pretty easy: You will never use mace auto attack on basic condi or power builds.

Bomb and grenade kit are dealing far more auto attack damage on power builds.
Condi builds are constantly putting out skills, similar to weaver, they r nearly never using auto attack....and if they do, they do it on grenade kit bc that simply deals more dmg.

That was the condi-alac and power-alac part.

Its also funnier to not spam auto attack on a healer build to provide alac.

However its a hit to the alac generation because adding barrier to Energizing_Slam and Rocket_Fist_Prototype and removing it from Barrier_Blast will end up in a lower alac uptime.
Because of that, the trait Mech_Frame:_Channeling_Circuits maybe needs some number tweaks.


However as I said, I suggest to move the 434 barrier from Barrier_Blast (auto attack's 3rd hit) and move it to Mace 2 (Energizing Slam) and Mace 3 (Rocket Fist Prototype).
Ofc auto attack is a better barrier generation because it has no cooldown, so maybe also a barrier increase would be nice if they r on mace 2 & 3.
-Mace 2 has a 6 second cooldown so maybe go with 434 barrier, also because it has other supportive stuff already (vigor, regeneration).
-Mace 3 has a 12 second cooldown and has no other supportive aspects so maybe 500-600 barrier? -> rocket fist prototype triggers Rocket_Punch_(Mech). This could also get 400 barrier or something like that. To keep the alac generation fine.


The thing is that I dont want to constantly press the auto attack just to keep up alac if I play alac mechanist. its a boring playstyle and the barrier on auto attack also doesnt support any build aside from support mechanist which just has to spam 1 to keep up alac.
In change of the barrier on Barrier_Blast, it could get something different, maybe regeneration or even fury (since support-engi lacks extremely in grp fury). Fury is also not so problematic in others eyes on auto attack.

However that were my suggestions.

Am glad about any other ideas and feedback.
Have a nice day everyone o/

Edited December 31, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Calen.8945]

Quote

The reason I want this to happen is pretty easy: You will never use mace auto attack on condi or power builds.

As someone how doesn't use kits, I can tell use that, yes, I will use auto attacks.

[SeTect.5918]

11 minutes ago, Calen.8945 said:

As someone how doesn't use kits, I can tell use that, yes, I will use auto attacks.

Then let me change it a bit: You will never use auto attack on basic condi or power builds.

Tho that change wont affect u that much since u neednt ur kits to gain the barrier. I hope u still press mace 2 and 3 tho xD

[Infusion.7149]

There's always a lot of complaining on the forums about other classes but what I've noticed is easier to play builds are always catching on and harder to play ones always end up dying out. People loved mechanist because of the afk-level potential , I doubt people rave about 39.5K multi-kit condi mech. There's no added reward for doing things the harder way. For example you can run 10% BD StM chrono and try to provide quickness , 50% BD chrono and do less DPS than cQB while needing to pay more attention or run scrapper on a fight favoring power damage and spam all gyros. On Twin Largos / Soulless Horror you can run the full condi RR setup with 2 legends and 2 weapons or you can autoattack and dodge on staff alac mirage (there's supposedly a axe+ staff variant but that takes more effort).

If you move the barrier to mace 2 and 3 you will dilute its usefulness heavily. The barrier would need to be larger as well since you can use those skills less often. A power build would likely not use mace at all and neither would a condi build short of on TL/SH where confusion is strong ; most people don't make builds specifically for Cairn where confusion is strong and confusion is just outright weak in fractals against exposed breakbars.

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

If you move the barrier to mace 2 and 3 you will dilute its usefulness heavily.

Yea thats true tho only for support mechanist.
However if the alac uptime turns out to be too low with this there should be a number tweak of Mech_Frame:_Channeling_Circuits. I understand that its better for the acceptability of alac mechanist to put that on auto attack but for me its really a boring playstyle and the barrier on auto attack is fully useless for normal power and condi builds.
I also think the barrier support coming out from mechanist will make it still accepted in most content. Even if the alac isnt that easy to get (no auto attack spam) then I mean.

 

2 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

The barrier would need to be larger as well since you can use those skills less often. A power build would likely not use mace at all and neither would a condi build short of on TL/SH where confusion is strong ; most people don't make builds specifically for Cairn where confusion is strong and confusion is just outright weak in fractals against exposed breakbars.

Yea the barrier would need to be larger. I actually didnt think about the numbers that much.

And yes mace isnt that strong in its current state. I like that they added confusion in beta 4 to mace 2 but it really wasnt enough, i hoped for bleeding or burning as well.
Also as power weapon mace lacks atm.
These changes should come first imo but if mace becomes a good condi or power weapon it will need barrier on mace 2 and 3 to not spam auto attack all the time if u play alac mechanist.


They could even add small pulsing barrier to mace 2 to reduce the alac uptime that goes away by removing it from auto attack.

Edited December 31, 2021 by SeTect.5918

[Infusion.7149]

Well if you run a condi build then you more or less will have 7K DPS from the mech itself with all DPS traits , i.e. ~32K is from the player with kits and pistols.

Running Barrier Engine (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mech_Core:_Barrier_Engine) nets you barrier on a 3s interval and channeling circuits is 0.75s alacrity at best. That means it needs to stay on autoattack unless the barrier pulse is changed , especially due to being 5 man alac.

100% boon duration would mean 1.5s alacrity on a 3s barrier interval on Barrier Engine along with a Barrier Burst up to every 30s before alac with 5 pulses. You're missing another trigger every 3 seconds realistically, mace 2 would need to cover that since Barrier Signet is 5 pulses every 24 seconds before alacrity. Energizing Slam (mace 2) is 6s cooldown before alacrity and already has a gap closer as well as a bunch of effects on it , therefore the only way it would work is if you have 2 barrier pulses as Rocket Fist Prototype (mace 3) has 12s cooldown and is a CC.

If you aren't forcing Barrier Signet onto players, in a 24 second interval you would have a total of 8 ticks of alacrity from Barrier Engine, and 5 ticks from Barrier Burst. 13 triggers * 1.5s with 100% boon duration = 19.5 seconds out of 24 seconds so you still need at least 5 triggers per 24 seconds. Barrier Signet fits there as before alacrity it is already 5 triggers with 24s cooldown.

I see no difference to barrier on auto from healing while using mace on guardian or staff on revenant/elementalist in water attunement. If someone wants to camp it it's their prerogative. The only time it becomes a problem on alac mechanist is if you need to use cleanses and you drop alacrity because bare minimum boon duration assumes autoing all the time.
 

[Lynx.9058]

I honestly don't care if grenades or bombs are better, both of them are gimmicky as hell and I refuse to use them.

Seriously, who the hell drops bombs at their own feet?

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Lynx.9058 said:

I honestly don't care if grenades or bombs are better, both of them are gimmicky as hell and I refuse to use them.

Seriously, who the hell drops bombs at their own feet?

Bomberman does. And what's good enough for bomberman is also good enough for me.