Gear and weapons for Power Virtuoso (PVE only)

[Levetty.1279]

18 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

this is why ttk trash (or dps) was never my main point

It was your point, you just can't admit that Virt is kitten when proven otherwise.

 

18 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

yeah, lets throw in mirror images + mantra of pain

You are missing the point so hard I can only presume you are trolling.

18 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

it still has those other skills for additional or later use.

If by later use you mean straight away because the shatter does less damage.

18 hours ago, Noodle Ant.1605 said:

core/chrono might be settling for weaker shatter coefficients

Except they are not, troll.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Levetty.1279

[Noodle Ant.1605]

3 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

It was your point, you just can't admit that Virt is kitten when proven otherwise.

You are missing the point so hard I can only presume you are trolling.

if youre calling me a troll because you disagree with me then theres not much i can do about that lol

ttk was your main point, i only responded to your totally unrelated comment to point out that using virt f1 isnt much slower (never said it was any faster) and correct your claim that it does "the same" dmg as core/chronos low (realistically speaking, 1) clone shatter

my original point has always been that virt is no more reliant on its shatters than core/chrono - its just used differently, and that shatters dont actually make up huge part of it at all

3 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

If by later use you mean straight away because the shatter does less damage.

Except they are not, troll.

unless this somehow stopped being about pve, i think theres another problem if you think max blade virt f1 somehow does less dmg than 1 clone mindwrack/split second, despite providing the math for it (without accounting for virts additional mods + free stats even). unless running a wet noodle build, using anything other than autos after a max blade f1 on trash is overkill

[Levetty.1279]

People will literally defend Virtuoso like their life depended on it. I would say I don't know what they hope to achieve when the testing already showed the damage is incredibly sub par for a 'dps' focused spec but Anet points to these people to prove that they don't need to put any work into their laziest 'elite' spec. So nice job, you dedicated your life to having an elite spec in a game be kitten because you hate the class for some reason. Good use of your time.

[Salt Mode.3780]

It has been tested multiple times that Virtuoso's shatter does less damage then any of the Mesmer specs....Virtuoso has been tested throughout each beta and as i recall their damage got nerfed for some reason lol....

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

It was your point, you just can't admit that Virt is kitten when proven otherwise

the issue is ur taking beta numbers as if its confirmed they'll launch at the same numbers. Cmc has Stated virtuoso is intended to excel at shatters. the idea people think the numbers wont be touched If a 5 blade shatter is doing less damage then a 3 clone shatter of other speccs seems madness to me as realistically, if they're underperforming its likely a Central point to where virtuosos going to be buffed.

6 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

If by later use you mean straight away because the shatter does less damage.

While true in betas.. i'd pressume anet arent going to launch a Specc useless in all game modes as a Selling feature of their product.

Chronomancer and Mirage both launched broken AF (And while they did get nerfed sure) Mesmers never had the tendency of launching in a Underpowered State.

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

People will literally defend Virtuoso like their life depended on it. I would say I don't know what they hope to achieve when the testing already showed the damage is incredibly sub par for a 'dps' focused spec but Anet points to these people to prove that they don't need to put any work into their laziest 'elite' spec. So nice job, you dedicated your life to having an elite spec in a game be kitten because you hate the class for some reason. Good use of your time.

Its the closest to a Mage based Elite specc this games gotten. no ones saying its Overpowered. Lots of people hope it launchs in good state and some may have more faith then you in Anets final product.

Cmc has stated hsi vision is for Virtuoso to excel in shatter damage which means Yes it was Underperforming shatter wise against its sister elites, however its very likely going to be a Point of buffing for virtuoso moving into launch so the likelyhood is that information wont age well.

Mesmers never had a Underpowered Launch regarding its Elites, ironically Mesmers have continously had brokenly Strong Launchs on both chronomancer and Mirage and been nerfed further down the line regarding balance wise, so long term mesmer mains likely pressume virtuoso will fit a similar bill.

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

It has been tested multiple times that Virtuoso's shatter does less damage then any of the Mesmer specs....Virtuoso has been tested throughout each beta and as i recall their damage got nerfed for some reason lol....

its because they're being "Cautious" Around virtuosos new shatter process.. i think they put far too much weight on losing the weakness of Target swapping and carrying resources between fights, second wave actually introduced More utility into virtuoso then its first beta had, the nerfs were likely again being over-cautious surrounding giving us access to capability to unblockable shatters.

however it is confirmed knowledge that Virtuosos identity is its shatters. which means its very likely they'll be buffed before the live launch.

Thats not saying its going to be amazing answer all the problems and be a absolute U turn on its beta balancing. but imma pressume 5 blade Shatters will do alot more damage then they currently do.

we are so close to launch at this point. we can do very little then just hope anet have made some decent decisions and the specc will see some use. as of the short term, most people wont care what is and isnt Powerful and simply wanna use whats new it'll be the testing ground with 0 confirmed Meta builds or power comparisons so its the ideal time to mess around with the new elites, we can only hope at this point they have buffed Shatters damage for virtuoso and atleast reworked some of the traits at minimum as they were absolute trash in both betas.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Levetty.1279]

8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

the issue is ur taking beta numbers as if its confirmed they'll launch at the same numbers.

The fact that going into its second beta every spec got massive changes and all Virtuoso got was its PvE damage gutted while every bit of feedback was ignored should tell you exactly how its going to go into live. It effectively got one less beta then every other spec. The kitten thing still doesn't even have a mechanic to replace clones.

 

8 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

ironically Mesmers have continously had brokenly Strong Launchs on both chronomancer and Mirage

Thanks for admitting this is just because of your irrationally hatred of Mesmers. Look forward to see you ranting about how OP virtuoso is on launch.

[Puck.3697]

20 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

The fact that going into its second beta every spec got massive changes and all Virtuoso got was its PvE damage gutted while every bit of feedback was ignored should tell you exactly how its going to go into live. It effectively got one less beta then every other spec. The kitten thing still doesn't even have a mechanic to replace clones.

We say this. but its not true, Not every specc got massive changes.

- Machinists DPS in raid enviroment was still appaulingly low as no fix was made to the fact that majority of its damage comes through the mech which Cannot get shared boons easily.

- Harbinger had More Self sustain ripped out of it ontop of DPS Nerfs which has Left in a bad position against scourge realistically.

- Willbender had none of its core problems solved and if anything became 1 step further away from being viable in SPVP due to a trait change being a negative effect on the specc.

- Catalysts DPS Was overtuned AF Whic hwe know will get heavily nerfed. but still lacked any response to the fact its Quickness build is outright inferior to Firebrands and outside of that wont bring anything else to a raid enviroment.

- Untamed is still completely unviable in PvE Content with extremely low DPS, and while its SPVP performance showed promise it was still lackluster in multiple areas when compared to current options.

- Bladesworn Was nerfed down heavily equalising it to Berserker and still being a worse option to Spellbreaker in SPVP lacks any real identity to this point.

- Spectre although is still strong, is still based around 1 target which GW2 UI hasnt showed any improvements to make this a good playstyle outside maybe PvP, but its only real "massive changes" were nerfs realistically.

in GW2 Second beta wave the only extreme changes were realistically made to

Untameds PvP Capability but had 0 impact on its PvE potiental.

and Vindicators Power DPS / PvP Ability.

Lets not pretend virtuoso was the only one to get nerfed with second beta wave, because Multiple speccs got nerfed pretty significantly. Hence why alot of people speculate that these changes coming in summer will be Heavy nerfs to current elites, as it appears Anet are attempting to do a solid 180 on the power creep thats plagued the game.

weather u like it or not, Virtuoso may be where they want all speccs currently we wont know exactly where they're trying to set their bar til then. but lets not pretend Any of the Elites currently shape up against current options.

[Levetty.1279]

You only listed about half the changes they did without even going into detail on them and you still proved me right.

 

Why am I still responding to this troll? 🤣

[Puck.3697]

29 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Thanks for admitting this is just because of your irrationally hatred of Mesmers. Look forward to see you ranting about how OP virtuoso is on launch.

WHAT?! LOL.

I Play mesmer "irrational hatred of Mesmers" lol, my Mesmers my most played proffession in both PvE PvP and WvWvW lol. way to scape goat.

No. i dont hate Mesmers.

but are we really saying chronomancer wasnt broken on launch? lol, because it was and we all know it was. Chronomancer single handerly dominanted Multiple fields of the game due to how Strong it was in launch as i stated what it is today is Completely gutted to what it was sure and thats not a Positive thing. but Chronomancer was Overpowered.

Mirage Season 9. i say no more, Mirage was Extremely strong, the problem was again it was Gutted which i stated. Mesmers Elite speccs dont have a Reputation of staying strong. because Anet love to launch dumb mechanics ontop of them whic hthey later on decide to do a 180 on and Completely gut 

[Levetty.1279]

Mirage was so strong on launch that they repeatedly buffed it post launch and finally actually bothered to complete the core class 5 years after launch with the Phantasm rework.

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

You only listed about half the changes they did without even going into detail on them and you still proved me right.

 

Why am I still responding to this troll? 🤣

which proffessions did i miss out? lol. and go into Detail? I Dont need to. the Core Points are there.

Catalyst Is brokenly strong in DPS but will be nerfed theres no way a 55k DPS builds coming into the game given they've litterally hard nerfed every other elite that go above 40k DPS Downwards.

Vindicator is Super strong, and as i stated is showing alot of Promise with builds accessible to it, and with renegades going down 5 man alac it opens up some potiental for usuage.

Untamed has Promise in SPVP enviroments, but still does less then 30k DPS in PvE Content which is Extremely underwhelming. remmeber we consider herald to be Unviable due to only doing 31k DPS lol.

Machinist has no Promise. AI has never had a good reputation in GW2, All its damage is piled into a AI Which cant recieve shared boons. which means again its actual DPS In raid enviroments is beneath 30k DPS. it has Alacrity, but renegade does it better. it has BArrer but with the 5 man caps happening to all BUT Scourge who will retain 10 man Barrier its again overshadowed.

Spectre shows some potiental however GW2 UI Still conflicts with its Playstyle, in SPVP its Looking rather scarey and is still extremely strong.. although i fear its gonna get the "unique" bat here as Anet tend to not do well at balancing things this different to the mould.

Harbinger has 0 Sustain, it has a Quickness build inferior to Firebrand and does Less DPS then Quickness Scrapper, while equalising DPS with the only 10 target barrier support in the game in EoD onwards.

Virtuoso has no Sustain, no Niche, Does less shatter damage then other options Loses Distortion and its Ranged gameplay is Ciounterproductive due to how dumb the Shatters are in Actual Ranged gameplay.

Willbender Still does less DPS then both Firebrand and Dragonhunter, while bringing a Alacrity build which is inferior to every other option. its SPVP Capability is neutered due to conflict with its Core design.

Bladesworn got nerfed to Berserker DPS So its basically berserker with extra steps, its SPVP capability is still pretty low due to inflexibility of the core proffession, ontop of this its likely to once again be a banner slave until those changes come in at summer at minimum it got slightly better in SPVP but its still lacking compared to Spellbreaker

Im not going to get a whole list of the changes and Explain every change to you, a simple run down is enough to show EoDs Elites as of current are garbage across the board. Yes some are worse then others and yes virtuoso is defintly below quite afew of the Elites coming in EoD. but Trash is Trash no matter where in the bin you are.

[Levetty.1279]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Does less shatter damage then other options

When your trolling and need to be contrarian gets so out of hand that you accidentally admit you were wrong in the first place.

[Puck.3697]

7 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Mirage was so strong on launch that they repeatedly buffed it post launch and finally actually bothered to complete the core class 5 years after launch with the Phantasm rework.

Im not going into details to exactly why. both chronomancer and mirage followed the same steps

- It got hyped.

- It was Super strong.

- Anet Instead of looking at a Healthier fix, gutted both Elites to neuter what they're doing.

the issue i have with such statements of "mesmers are singled out" is simply mesmers arent singled out, 6 of 9 Proffessions are singled out.

If your not firebrand, Scourge or Renegade. your basically screwed in 90% of content and will only ever fullfill a Niche. while these 3 overloads Simply Dominant every section of the game.

[Puck.3697]

2 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

When your trolling and need to be contrarian gets so out of hand that you accidentally admit you were wrong in the first place.

Please tell me where i stated in either beta testings its shatter damage wasnt lower.

I said ur basing ur entire argument off of Beta numbers and things COULD IMPROVE ON THE LAUNCH OF EoD.

I aint trolling. if anything you are by trying to twist what others write to try and shape this sight of "anyone who says anything that isnt Doomstalk Simply hates mesmer" lol. you wanna know why likely anet ignores you. Its because u behave like this Lmfao.

there is no ability to rationalise with someone of your mentality, until u lose the chip in yuor shoulder and stop thinking every proffessions Amazing excluding your own. Because if there was any truth in what u state. we wouldnt see by statistics

ovber 80% of the playerbases comps are Scourge / Renegade and Firebrand.

they're all pretty bad excluding 3 options and not even on a proffession level. Strict Elite specc builds.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Levetty.1279]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Im not going into details to exactly why. both chronomancer and mirage followed the same steps

- It got hyped.

- It was Super strong.

- Anet Instead of looking at a Healthier fix, gutted both Elites to neuter what they're doing.

the issue i have with such statements of "mesmers are singled out" is simply mesmers arent singled out, 6 of 9 Proffessions are singled out.

If your not firebrand, Scourge or Renegade. your basically screwed in 90% of content and will only ever fullfill a Niche. while these 3 overloads Simply Dominant every section of the game.

 

Mirage got absolutely trashed in PoF beta by everybody which is why they buffed it so much. Even reddit was saying its bad and they still think Chorno is better then Firebrand. You don't even play the game why are you here?

 

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Please tell me where i stated in either beta testings its shatter damage wasnt lower.

I said ur basing ur entire argument off of Beta numbers and things COULD IMPROVE ON THE LAUNCH OF EoD.

 

Better go back through the thread and delete all your messages if you are going to try and pull this card.

[Puck.3697]

9 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Better go back through the thread and delete all your messages if you are going to try and pull this card.

no please go find and Quote where i stated Strictly Virtuosos Shatters do more Damage.. i think you maybe mundling up me with someone else if ur honestly trying to push this

9 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

the issue is ur taking beta numbers as if its confirmed they'll launch at the same numbers. Cmc has Stated virtuoso is intended to excel at shatters. the idea people think the numbers wont be touched If a 5 blade shatter is doing less damage then a 3 clone shatter of other speccs seems madness to me as realistically, if they're underperforming its likely a Central point to where virtuosos going to be buffed.

Heres my inital statement to you.

I stated what CmC stated during a inteview with teapot and simply stated I doubt 5 blade shatters will launch doing as little Damage as they were in the beta testes and stated Its likely a central point to where virtuoso would be buffed come EoD launch.

THats called a Positive outlook and Localising the statement the dev made to where they'd specifically target if to buff virtuoso based on such statement

9 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Its the closest to a Mage based Elite specc this games gotten. no ones saying its Overpowered. Lots of people hope it launchs in good state and some may have more faith then you in Anets final product.

Cmc has stated hsi vision is for Virtuoso to excel in shatter damage which means Yes it was Underperforming shatter wise against its sister elites, however its very likely going to be a Point of buffing for virtuoso moving into launch so the likelyhood is that information wont age well.

Heres where i express People may have more faith in virtuoso getting buffed by launch and again

I wrote "yes it was underperforming Shatter wise against its sister elites"

P.S u can see i havent touched these posts in 9 hours, before u try to exclaim i Editted these prior this post, i simply didnt. you simply didnt read what i wrote and thats as simple as it gets, you decided to just initally react off me Saying something not entirely negative about the proffession.

9 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Mirage got absolutely trashed in PoF beta by everybody which is why they buffed it so much. Even reddit was saying its bad and they still think Chorno is better then Firebrand. You don't even play the game why are you here?

 

yah, again go back to my example

I Stated season 9 Mirage was Extremely strong. i didnt even remotely talk about Mirages Beta performance.

Newsflash: Its Beta Performance dont matter long term, how it launchs is whats relevant here, the Beta is there to trash the speccs because the conceptual premise of a Beta is to find and fix the problems Prior the launch of the product.

ALOT of speccs in PoF Beta got trashed.

and agasin your statement backs up what im stating.

Mirage being absolute trash during its Beta testing and Launching in strong state 100% Proves that virtuoso Could turn out identical in circumstance.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Salt Mode.3780]

Even if Virtuoso is fine in PvE which honestly ANYTHING WORKS IN OPEN WORLD, and "ENDGAME" content is slap on Berserker stats and stand melee range spamming ur buttons, it will never see competitive play for how lack of just sheer gameplay. Being able to sidestep or slight elevation missing all your shatters is already idiotic enough.

Chrono and Mirage were both extremely strong but so were ANY other e-specs in the game that was release minus scrapper which is now surprisingly one of the better specs.

Problem is with any other specs they balance it but they dont deliberately remove stuff or completely change on how certain trait work. I cannot begin to recall how many things they completely removed from Mesmer compared to other classes.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Even if Virtuoso is fine in PvE which honestly ANYTHING WORKS IN OPEN WORLD, and "ENDGAME" content is slap on Berserker stats and stand melee range spamming ur buttons, it will never see competitive play for how lack of just sheer gameplay. Being able to sidestep or slight elevation missing all your shatters is already idiotic enough.

Chrono and Mirage were both extremely strong but so were ANY other e-specs in the game that was release minus scrapper which is now surprisingly one of the better specs.

Problem is with any other specs they balance it but they dont deliberately remove stuff or completely change on how certain trait work. I cannot begin to recall how many things they completely removed from Mesmer compared to other classes.

None of the elites in HoT Hit the meta like chronomancer did i mean we're really lying to ourselves if we are trying to say Chrono was balanced Now we can all agree what they did about the situation. which was gut it Outright. Take alacrity and give it tto everyone as a Raid buff and Leave it as a Raid tank was a Bad move. and it Sucks.

Mirage wasnt just "as strong" Either, its Evades Litterally allowed it to evade frame stuns and more, this was EXTREMELY rule breaky and created a mirage bunker Meta that absolutely dominanted the SPVP Scene for its life span priopr the nerfs. again. gutting its Dodge potiental, its Energy recharge ontop of a ton of other nerfs resulted in it being completely gutted, deleting Power mirage from the game and overall once again was a bad move and it sucks.

these were 2 speccs. with very interesting and high impact Mechanics. the problem is Anet suck at dealing with Unique high impact mechanics and decided to take the easy fix bandaid of just Absolutely gutting them both instead of actually making these things fit properly.

Again. at no point did i state virtuosos performing well in anything in either betas, i never did state that. i simply stated it could potientally be changed, and considering this post is on PvE and Not other modes directly its Not correct to simply judge it based on its Performance in other game modes in this thread specifically. the OP has Specifically stated PVE ONLY.

However

Scourge and Firebrand were both deleted from the SPVP Scene outright also, so its not strictly true that they dont do the same for other proffessions, because we have seen it happen realistically, now that doesnt fix necromancer. or the impact of Support guardian sure but we are seeing it happen.

but this doesnt prove anything against exactly what i stated

- This games Lopsided by 3 Proffessions only, with the 6 others having very few strengths comparitively.

- Virtuoso could be buffed Prior EoD Launch.

Or you know, we could hit EoD the same 3 proffessions still dominant. Virtuoso doesnt get changed and is Just as bad as it was Shown and we end up with a Specc thats reworked in 4 years.

When we're talking Possibility. its a coin flip realistically. but i wouldnt say virtuosos the only EoD Elite leftr on that coin flip to what its going to release like espically if ur wanting to breing SPVP and WvWvW.

lets not forget even teapot has Absolutely trashed these speccs as far as WvWvW is concerned, NONE of them are remotely viable in a WvWvW Enviroment and none of them even break B Tier as far as SPVP is to go.

anet Entirely admitted this

EoDs elites Job was to Spread quickness and alacrity to other proffessions to attempt to even the grounds in PvE Enviroments.

None of these speccs were built with PvP in mind excluding maybe Untamed. and they all show it dramatically. in al lthe betas, they were either overpowered or absolutely sucked realistically.

in the end either:

It'll launch as bad as it was and everyone will say "i told you so"

or it'll be buffed and launch in a better state and everyone will say "i told you so".

one coin flips gonna Preveil in guessing the release state of virtuoso, but that coin flips extend to all proffessions. they've made no clarification to any changes made or any intentions regards buffs and nerfs so we have litterally No idea what changes these speccs will launch with.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Salt Mode.3780]

19 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

None of the elites in HoT Hit the meta like chronomancer did i mean we're really lying to ourselves if we are trying to say Chrono was balanced Now we can all agree what they did about the situation. which was gut it Outright. Take alacrity and give it tto everyone as a Raid buff and Leave it as a Raid tank was a Bad move. and it Sucks.

Mirage wasnt just "as strong" Either, its Evades Litterally allowed it to evade frame stuns and more, this was EXTREMELY rule breaky and created a mirage bunker Meta that absolutely dominanted the SPVP Scene for its life span priopr the nerfs. again. gutting its Dodge potiental, its Energy recharge ontop of a ton of other nerfs resulted in it being completely gutted, deleting Power mirage from the game and overall once again was a bad move and it sucks.

these were 2 speccs. with very interesting and high impact Mechanics. the problem is Anet suck at dealing with Unique high impact mechanics and decided to take the easy fix bandaid of just Absolutely gutting them both instead of actually making these things fit properly.

Again. at no point did i state virtuosos performing well in anything in either betas, i never did state that. i simply stated it could potientally be changed, and considering this post is on PvE and Not other modes directly its Not correct to simply judge it based on its Performance in other game modes in this thread specifically. the OP has Specifically stated PVE ONLY.

 

You really want to open the can of worms? Ok compared to every other specs that got nerfed is it as bad as Mesmers? I can only think of 2 and that is Warriors and Ele, and these 2 arent even because they got kitten removed its because the constant damage nerfs as well as the Feb patch making CCs do no damage completely neutered warriors.

The reason why your high hopes is extremely annoying is because in the long line of Mesmer history there has never been an instance where we got something good let alone return something back to us. 

Virtuoso had 4 betas each in which players made constant feedbacks with the SAME consensus of the problems which they NEVER addressed or FIXED. 

1. Shatters being casted makes F3 completely useless in competitive play, there is no such thing as F3 to F1 combo like other Mesmer specs can because unlike the other Specs Virtuoso does not have IP.

2. Being able to sidestep dodge / elevation can make ur shatters and AND ELITE miss completely.

3. Elite is a hot mess, extremely narrow, and even if the target is standing still many of the projectiles do not attack the target. 

4. Utilities CD are way too long for what they are worth, essentially 2 of the AOE utilities are comparable to weapon skills.

5. You made a 1200 ALL PROJECTILE range spec that is easily susceptible to projectile hate, putting a unlockable in that small timeframe is not going to cut it because you still need to cast your shatters as well as projectiles being WAY TO SLOW. 

6. Trait is completely garbage, why would you make a ranged specialization do more damage mid to close range...?

7. No mobility to get back into range, perfect example is deadeye, they are delayed by having to crouch for many of their skills but have mobility to kite enemies back to perform said ranged attacks.

8. Condi...why? You made a "all power" spec with a condi trait that stacks bleed for what whooping 2 seconds? Bleed is considered to be the weakest of ALL damage condi, even poison has it's uses at least it negates heal.

9. Fact that you need 5 blades to do less then equal damage compared to other Mesmer specs that only need 3 clones....if anyone can do math 5 is obviously greater then 3 so needing more resource to do less damage. (They also for some reason nerfed damage even more.)

10. Virtuoso provides and has no boon built in, no slow or cripple or any debilitating condi to hinder enemy movement speed built in weapon, Dagger is extremely lackluster provides nothing.

11. Shatters are the same as core nothing was added to them, even the CD are the same.

 

This isn't part of a reason but just how disgustingly lazy the weapon design was....the combat animation is literally the same you are slashing air, the autos look like purple discs...?

MANY of the points were posted throughout EACH of the beta and EACH beta continued to have issues persisting. At the last spec changes NOTHING from above was addressed....giving you more blades does not mean more shatters.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Salt Mode.3780]

I forgot to mention this as well.

12. Traits contain NO weapon CD reduction that is fine not all weapons have it, what about Psionic skills...? So are they getting the glamour treatment, just a nice tooltip?

 

I'm sorry the majority of the playerbase do not have GM commands to make the class look amazing and at their best....

Edited February 13, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Puck.3697]

34 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

You really want to open the can of worms? Ok compared to every other specs that got nerfed is it as bad as Mesmers? I can only think of 2 and that is Warriors and Ele, and these 2 arent even because they got kitten removed its because the constant damage nerfs as well as the Feb patch making CCs do no damage completely neutered warriors.

heres the issue though your not reading what i wrote.

I said very clearly. That on both chronomancer and Mirage their nerfs were absolutely guttripping level bad where both elites got absolutely Ruined beyond redemption realistically. and i strongly disagree with how both elites were handled.

We arent at argument to the current state of chronomancer and mirage. we appear to actually be in solid agreement on our opinons of what they've done to our current 2 elites so far.

34 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

The reason why your high hopes is extremely annoying is because in the long line of Mesmer history there has never been an instance where we got something good let alone return something back to us. 

I said potientally they could, I dont have high hopes, its a Pretty neutral area to sit in. The current state based on beta was terrible however from Exclusively a PvE point of view, things could get better.

34 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Virtuoso had 4 betas each in which players made constant feedbacks with the SAME consensus of the problems which they NEVER addressed or FIXED. 

virtuoso was only beta'd twice not 4 times and yes the feedback is largely negative surrounding it however i will add this post is PvE only. its SPVP / WvWvW problems arent relevant to this threads goals.

from a PvE point of view at the end of the day, the only thing that'll matter is its numbers, the rest of the problems at large wont affect PvE

in PvE your forced into Stacking due how boons are spread so the Ranged factor went out the window from the start, ontop of this. monsters rarely reflect damage meaning it'll not be  aissue here and Yes pvE is the most basic form of balancing, but it is the topic of this thread.

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

virtuoso was only beta'd twice not 4 times and yes the feedback is largely negative surrounding it however i will add this post is PvE only. its SPVP / WvWvW problems are relevant to this threads goals.

You honestly think anything i mentioned above is WvW / SPvP exclusive...yikes....

[Puck.3697]

51 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

You honestly think anything i mentioned above is WvW / SPvP exclusive...yikes....

No but I think from a PvE point of view exclusively the issues with virtuoso are repairable.

It's when we go into spvp / WvWvW potiental virtuoso being absolute garbage becomes inevitable. 

Remember melee stacking is a requirement ranged or not in raid / group content in PvE. The problems with its ranged ability is irrelevant to discussion due to that 

This is where the confusion is realistically. I ain't trying to say the nerfs to mirage or chrono were fair, or that virtuoso is going to be amazing. I'm saying as we know, PvE is simply damage numbers it's a very irrelevant point of balancing but at the sake of PvE it will work. 

That's the OPs question. A 36k DPS specc can do all content in the game realistically. It's not great, it's not good, it is sub optimal, there are better choices.. but at the sake only tunnel visioning PvE content it does have the possibility of being decent with some number tweaks on its shatters and possibly something done about how wonky it is as far as aiming is concerned. 

And while I do agree with you on several design flaws, i.e the shatters being currently low damage which I hope will be rectified, the irritation around aiming the shatters, the last minute attempt to flex Condi in needlessly I don't think it's going to release as bad as it was in beta. 

The mobility and lower DPS then melee speccs was expected however. Ranged have to be slower and lower DPS. That's mmorpg 101 rule realistically. 

It's to offset having higher uptime and being able to attack 1200 yards off the target where melee have to run 1200 yards to hit you. 

Ranged have to be weaker by default, that's just how mmorpg balancing works really. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Levetty.1279]

4 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Even if Virtuoso is fine in PvE which honestly ANYTHING WORKS IN OPEN WORLD, and "ENDGAME" content is slap on Berserker stats and stand melee range spamming ur buttons

Just like to remind people that it isn't even a good PvE class. It benches lower then Mirage and Chorno for endgame, it provides 0 group utility in any way and Chrono, Mirage and even Core are better at it at any open world content.

 

It is literally pointless.

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Just like to remind people that it isn't even a good PvE class. It benches lower then Mirage and Chorno for endgame, it provides 0 group utility in any way and Chrono, Mirage and even Core are better at it at any open world content.

 

It is literally pointless.

We are all aware it benched very low after in its second beta test, something like 36k if I'm correct. However. I will say this. 

Chronomancer to maximise it's DPS requires a skill cap far far above the average raiders or fractals runners reach and the likelyhood those players could get 36k DPS out of chrono is very unlikely, virtuoso is very brain dead simplistic to play comparitively it may be a positive swap for someone less experienced. 

Also. I think virtuoso will likely bench 39-40k by launch alike my beliefs regarding harbinger 

Will that make it meta? No. The quantity of utility brought with chrono a specc equal in DPS to it will not be the best. However virtuosos simplicity would make it the safest option in group based PvE content. 

I think people oftenly forget how high the chronomancers skillcap is to a new / less practiced player. And that alone may sway it's performance in those users hands. 

As I said from the start. It's likely going to be trash in PvP and WvWvW there's no redemption. But it will likely be made viable in PvE content it's just gonna suffer weaver syndrome as not being all that demanded in content. 

I think Anet saw 45k done by it and alarm bells went as they don't want to exceed above 40k and the nerfs overdid it a bit. But that doesn't mean they can't buff the specc at all before launch. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Daddy.8125