Have a separate challenge mode for open world metas

[Ruisen.9471]

Some people like hard metas, some people don't.   Since there's no reconciling this, here's a proposal: make a separate challenge mode for metas.

If the meta is instanced like dragonstorm, that's fairly easy and it would work like CM in a raid.

If the meta is not instanced (like Chak Gerent), then when the squad leader toggles challenge mode, a new map instance is created with the CM meta and the squad will be teleported to the new map instance.  The new map instance would be identical to normal map instances in every other way, but the reason a new map instance is created instead is to prevent trolls from making the map meta CM for everyone else who wants to do the normal version.

 

CM meta would give extra 1-2 gold, higher chance to drop infusions/ascended items and exotics.

[Labjax.2465]

Idk about the increased rewards part, seems like people would interpret it as casual players getting less for not wanting to play hardcore and then you'd end up with casual players struggling to complete events cause all the hardcores are off in their little elite map instances, but as a way of providing challenge for those who are bored with the metas as they are, I could see value in that.

[Ruisen.9471]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Idk about the increased rewards part, seems like people would interpret it as casual players getting less for not wanting to play hardcore and then you'd end up with casual players struggling to complete events cause all the hardcores are off in their little elite map instances, but as a way of providing challenge for those who are bored with the metas as they are, I could see value in that.

The reason for the increased rewards is because people rarely do metas in GW2 if there isn't rewards involved.   The intent isn't to create "raid" levels of difficulty gatelocked for raid players, but mainly a response to the idea that Anet wants to create harder metas to push the open world playerbase, but there's alot of complaints that people feel like they're forced to do the DE meta.  This would be one way to make those harder metas that is optional, but incentivizes people to try it.    The end goal is still for open world players to do them, though, and not to produce new raid content.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[kharmin.7683]

I'd rather Anet spend their resources making new raid wings and keeping such mechanics out of open world meta events.

[Fueki.4753]

4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

I'd rather Anet spend their resources making new raid wings and keeping such mechanics out of open world meta events.

That'd be ideal.

But unless Arenanet implements normal modes for those new raids (instead of only having hard modes like current raids) It's likely not worth investing in raids due to the insufficient player participation.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Linken.6345]

2 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

That'd be ideal.

But unless Arenanet implements normal modes for those new raids (instead of only having hard modes like current raids) It's likely not worth investing in raids due to the insufficient player participation.

well the new Eod strikes have shown that all anet need to do is remove the boss timer and nerf reward by 75% and kabram normal mode.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Myror.7521]

Man the old gw1 style hardmode for openworld maps would be insane good ..... but will never come as well xd. Would be a pretty decent idea tho.

[Raizel.8175]

Have to disagree. The game is in dire need of some more challenging open world meta events. There was basically no difficulty progression in open world content, which is one of the main reasons why the GW2 community is insanely fractured.

[NumNums.7935]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:40 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

I'd rather Anet spend their resources making new raid wings and keeping such mechanics out of open world meta events.

I thought they were done making raids.

[NumNums.7935]

22 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Have to disagree. The game is in dire need of some more challenging open world meta events. There was basically no difficulty progression in open world content, which is one of the main reasons why the GW2 community is insanely fractured.

Yeah I think anet needs to go back and make all the old world bosses much harder, same with dungeons.

[Hume.2876]

On 3/13/2022 at 5:31 AM, Raizel.8175 said:

Have to disagree. The game is in dire need of some more challenging open world meta events. There was basically no difficulty progression in open world content, which is one of the main reasons why the GW2 community is insanely fractured.

 

That's because challenging open world content DOES NOT WORK. The challenge really becomes defeating the "open" system and getting a clean map with a full zone size squad. 

 

If you think about it all content is in fact instanced. The only difference is with "raid" content the map caps are lower and its easier to select who you will bring with you.  

 

All this fighting comes down the very basic mechanics of the zone/instance system.  Forget about challenging open world content - it doesn't work. It never has. It never will. You will always get a bunch of face roll players who wear nothing but soldier gear or some defensive set and just hit auto attack 90% of the time.

 

Now this isn't a problem but it IS a problem if you want to make challenging content for SOME of the players to "progress".  Even the guilds that run this will get bored of it like triple trouble. 

[Astralporing.1957]

On 3/13/2022 at 11:31 AM, Raizel.8175 said:

Have to disagree. The game is in dire need of some more challenging open world meta events. There was basically no difficulty progression in open world content, which is one of the main reasons why the GW2 community is insanely fractured.

Yes and no. Sure, the no difficulty progression allows for the community to remain fractured, but is not a main reason for that fracture itself - the main reason would be the hardcore-aimed core game systems that allow for ridiculously massive effectiveness gaps between players.

Additionally, indeed, difficulty progression in open world might close that fracture in the community. It would also make that community significantly smaller, because it would do that not by improving average and below players, but by making them quit the game.

[Hume.2876]

On 3/16/2022 at 7:53 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Yes and no. Sure, the no difficulty progression allows for the community to remain fractured, but is not a main reason for that fracture itself - the main reason would be the hardcore-aimed core game systems that allow for ridiculously massive effectiveness gaps between players.

Additionally, indeed, difficulty progression in open world might close that fracture in the community. It would also make that community significantly smaller, because it would do that not by improving average and below players, but by making them quit the game.

Not everyone has to do all the content.  I don't think open world content that is difficult works. But at the same time this argument is not a strong one. If you give people 50 easy zones and 3 hard ones - You are not going to lose all the easy grinders because there are 3 hard zones.

Those hard zones are to give the influencers and dedicated players something to do in the game - so as to attract the regular joes who want to play something different then Candy Crush.. The real problem is that good players will get frustrated by the random farmers that appear in their "raid zone" instances..  The grinders are going to be happy if you give them enough grind.  And this game has it.

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Hume.2876 said:

Not everyone has to do all the content.  I don't think open world content that is difficult works. But at the same time this argument is not a strong one. If you give people 50 easy zones and 3 hard ones - You are not going to lose all the easy grinders because there are 3 hard zones.

The friction itself causes some players to lose enjoyment.

3 hours ago, Hume.2876 said:

The real problem is that good players will get frustrated by the random farmers that appear in their "raid zone" instances.. 

And the casuals (which are not the same as farmers, btw) will get frustrated if things they want end up locked behind that hardcore style content (and will keep coming to that content, continuously frustrating hardcore players). In the end both groups will end up unsatisfied.

[Raizel.8175]

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

The friction itself causes some players to lose enjoyment.

Then they probably shouldn't play a MMORPG? Conflict is an essential part and driving force of human society. If you play a MMORPG in which its social aspect is an integral part of itself, you should expect there to be some sort of conflict. Arena Net already eliminated conflict where it's reasonable with shared participation.

2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

And the casuals (which are not the same as farmers, btw) will get frustrated if things they want end up locked behind that hardcore style content (and will keep coming to that content, continuously frustrating hardcore players). In the end both groups will end up unsatisfied.

People constantly bamboozle "casual players", "bad players" and "players who don't want to play the game". The overwhelming amount of toxicity during the last few days stems from the latter two groups. What's problematic for actual casual players is the time-investment involved (which you could cut down significantly if escort events would also grant stacks of the contribution buff) and RNG.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, Raizel.8175 said:

Then they probably shouldn't play a MMORPG? Conflict is an essential part and driving force of human society. If you play a MMORPG in which its social aspect is an integral part of itself, you should expect there to be some sort of conflict. Arena Net already eliminated conflict where it's reasonable with shared participation.

 

Or split the population and each use their wallets to fund their area  they love .

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Then they probably shouldn't play a MMORPG? Conflict is an essential part and driving force of human society. If you play a MMORPG in which its social aspect is an integral part of itself, you should expect there to be some sort of conflict. Arena Net already eliminated conflict where it's reasonable with shared participation.

And here i thought PvE was supposed to be a cooperative, not competitive experience, and one where, according to Anet, you were always supposed to be glad to see other players around.

Quote

People constantly bamboozle "casual players", "bad players" and "players who don't want to play the game". The overwhelming amount of toxicity during the last few days stems from the latter two groups. What's problematic for actual casual players is the time-investment involved (which you could cut down significantly if escort events would also grant stacks of the contribution buff) and RNG.

Being hardcore and casual has nothing to do with the amount of time you can invest in the game. A casual with a lot of free time can easily play for hours, while a hardcore with a tight RL schedule may be able to free only few hours total per week. It's an approach to the game that separates those groups.

Some players treat this game as a second job. Some treat it as a dedicated hobby. And some treat it as entertainment medium. Hardcores tend to be on the one side of that, while casuals on the other one. That's all the difference.

Notice, btw, that all of the ways to treat the game are equally valid. Even if it's pretty common from players seeing the game in one light to not understand how someone else might think its anything but the same.

The key to making a good game is either to aim at only one of those groups, or (if, you're aiming at more, as it is normal in MMORPGs) try to avoid a situation where players with different outlooks on the game could come into conflict due to it. Because that kind of conflict does not result in any kind of "driving force". It's something that is purely destructive in nature.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Astralporing.1957