Tbh, what really sucks

[Aeolus.3615]

@RainbowTurtle.3542

tks for the redit post, did not knew that and is that also only on redit?

Alot of players were assuming Anet would give a spirit that aplyes quickness, gw1 ranger had similiar mechanic.

Edited May 25, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Dadnir.5038]

On 5/25/2022 at 9:39 PM, Aeolus.3615 said:

@RainbowTurtle.3542

tks for the redit post, did not knew that and is that also only on redit?

Alot of players were assuming Anet would give a spirit that aplyes quickness, gw1 ranger had similiar mechanic.

This reddit post found it's way to this forum for quite some time already.

Warrior get quickness because it's thematic lean toward "burst" while ranger get alacrity because it's thematic lean toward "nature" which is "steadier". At the end of the day, whether it's quickness or alacrity, the change won't do much good to either professions. Well, with these changes, Untamed will probably have the (dis)pleasure to become a meta Alac'tank thanks to the extra 5 allies precision from Spotter. Druid probably don't have a bright futur in front of him, thought (People probably won't ask him to take spirit anymore so that might make it's life easier).

[Aeolus.3615]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

This reddit post found it's way to this forum for quite some time already.

Warrior get quickness because it's thematic lean toward "burst" while ranger get alacrity because it's thematic lean toward "nature" which is "steadier". At the end of the day, whether it's quickness or alacrity, the change won't do much good to either professions. Well, with these changes, Untamed will probably have the (dis)pleasure to become a meta Alac'tank thanks to the extra 5 allies precision from Spotter. Druid probably don't have a bright futur in front of him, thought (People probably won't ask him to take spirit anymore so that might make it's life easier).

IC alot of stuff with conflicting roles :\  players will use what performances best and is easier to play, wich might make some of the changes useless at the end since favour will lean towards what works best.

IMo Druid its good to have spritis improved but need better staff skills, its a CC bunker that goes healing on avatar form that works nice on paper but in gameplay it just become a CC bot, but it needsmore outgoing heal for others than itself, and spirits need to be slightly sturdier but with a trade off kinda, like  takes more damage from burn, but since gw2 is aoe heavy game spirits could get some damage resistance to all other damage types( similiar to how spirits worked in gw1 which could help in more gametypes and not be a pve skill only).

Oh.. and Avatar glyphs need to be 10 players they dont have boons(1 boon when traited) so it would work well

Edited May 27, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

its good to have spritis improved

I disagree with that.

The devs are going to replace very useful spirit's unique effects by common boons. That's downgrading spirits, not improving them. Will it make them playable in competitive mode? Nope. All this is gonna do is make them enter into competition against what other professions have to offer.

Also, druid's issue is it's avatar not it's glyphs or staff. It got a relatively long CD to counter the fact that it's to heavily focused on healing. If they shifted most of the healing onto the glyphs (avatar mode) and made the avatar skillset more polyvalent, they could reduce the CD of the avatar which would improve the flow of the spec and thus make it overall "better" (It could also lessen the drop in damage while in avatar which would give the spec more use in competitive modes).

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

Also, druid's issue is it's avatar not it's glyphs or staff. It got a relatively long CD to counter the fact that it's to heavily focused on healing. If they shifted most of the healing onto the glyphs (avatar mode) and made the avatar skillset more polyvalent, they could reduce the CD of the avatar which would improve the flow of the spec and thus make it overall "better" (It could also lessen the drop in damage while in avatar which would give the spec more use in competitive modes).

I'd argue druid's non-CA aspects are what drags it down more than the CD on CA. If the glyphs were even changed to something as simple as the flip over effects were reversed it'd be a lot better, as you wouldn't be forced into CA in every mode to heal, and having the glyphs flip over into more healing isn't helping anyone.

 

Druid staff 3 is a bit overtuned as it does make getting around large arenas decently simple, combined with Natural Stride druid is incredibly mobile (33% speed boost unless affected by a movement imparing condition, which has its duration shortened). The rest of druid staff is pretty garbage, with some niche uses for staff 5 in pve.

[Aeolus.3615]

18 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

I'd argue druid's non-CA aspects are what drags it down more than the CD on CA. If the glyphs were even changed to something as simple as the flip over effects were reversed it'd be a lot better, as you wouldn't be forced into CA in every mode to heal, and having the glyphs flip over into more healing isn't helping anyone.

 

Druid staff 3 is a bit overtuned as it does make getting around large arenas decently simple, combined with Natural Stride druid is incredibly mobile (33% speed boost unless affected by a movement imparing condition, which has its duration shortened). The rest of druid staff is pretty garbage, with some niche uses for staff 5 in pve.

 

Dont glyphs heal slightly better than a  potato minstrells  shout warrior? xD

I dont see staff 3 that overtuned, ok its strong but imo not that overtuned, staff 5 is noooot bad but the regen is a bad choice, should be a direct heal rather a boon, yeah but the rest of the staff skills is just meh, and Druid to give decent support needs avatar form which is ok  but out of it should be slightly better., avatar form.

kinda offtopic: If i recall well, healing spring on avatar form is a absurd of a healing 😄 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

Dont glyphs heal slightly better than a  potato minstrells  shout warrior? xD

I dont see staff 3 that overtuned, ok its strong but imo not that overtuned, staff 5 is noooot bad but the regen is a bad choice, should be a direct heal rather a boon, yeah but the rest of the staff skills is just meh, and Druid to give decent support needs avatar form which is ok  but out of it should be slightly better., avatar form.

kinda offtopic: If i recall well, healing spring on avatar form is a absurd of a healing 😄 

1. Glyphs are flat out redundant in CA. Why bother with the baby heals (which drain your energy) when you could use the actually useful ones? Why tether yourself to allies to heal them better when you can just do it directly AND get better results? If you count pet skills, ranger is the profession with the most pointless redundancy in its kit.

2. Staff 3 mostly is overtuned in its range- 1,200 range is nice, but its pretty strong. Druid is often the babysitter for the Qadim 1 fights kiter, often deadeye, and can quickly get back to the rest of the squad to help there. It's not impossible for people to clear Q1 without druid, but druid makes keeping the kite alive much, much easier.

3. Staff 5 is barely useful when it can be used. It has such a small AoE that in most situations your squad will be too spread out to take advantage of it, and by the time they realize it's there you either have to move (i.e. slothasaur or boneskinner) or it despawns.

4. Even just flipping the order of the flip over part of glyphs would make it better outside of CA. You could actually use your healing utilities to heal, instead of only using water spirit, warhorn, and the really panicked Staff 5->3 blast heal (which, if you're forced to use it often, there's a problem).

5. Water Spirit is better 9 times out of 10 than healing spring. Unless you need the condi cleanse from the spring, water spirit does more direct healing and has a pretty good regen. You also heal 10 targets with water spirit due to the way it functions, which means you bring celestial avatar back up faster (often having to wait for the cooldown to end rather than your energy to fill).

[Aeolus.3615]

@RainbowTurtle.3542  

That's good info from Druid in pve wich is a thing i dont do (Gw2 has a big ZERO pve content for me), but funny cause it seams that Druid is a PVE only class cause a druid cant do nothing like that outside of it wich IMO is a game design fault forcing gameplay outside of pve to certain classes/gimmick, everything should work independent from the gamemode(this happens when a mmo is well thinked at least), it's spirits m8 work in spvp but just to an extent and only in a few maps, they are useless in wvw so heal with a spirits and play with spirits is the same as play w/o utilities due the nature of  float numbers combat spirits would be hitted always and instantly destroyed, healing trap is always better then spirits at least outside pve.

The range about staff 3 i can imagine why u call it OP in pve, maybe it is in some spvp maps as well, but in WvW 1200 range m8 be a life savior to be saved or to save an ally wich is a good thing it igves more freedom of action and thinkering while in combat, ventari tablet heals 7k and 10k in pve and its also mobile but in a 900 range, so the 1200 range for druid since druid needs its presence to support IMO its a balance /trade off thing.

Staff 5 should be  an amazing skill IMO its actually very weak for it's CD 25sec.... should be changed like i said, remove regen increase slightly the healing quoficientse for projectiles that pass trough it and for the condi removal rather than regen should apply a direct heal, theres to many boons already in wvw and gamewide, its funny  Anet came with that crap of bring the player not the class but they  are doing the oposite alot of perma boon groups equals lower skill needed, stack perma boons is easy....but this is another story.

Another thing, glyphs while in Avatar for should be always 10 targets whatever gamemode is, i havent played druid in a while actually deleted mine, and if  i reccal they are now 5 targets an donly 10 in pve?

TDLR, it still seams the big issue on Druid its the staff skills that is limiting and borking up the class.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

@RainbowTurtle.3542  

That's good info from Druid in pve wich is a thing i dont do (Gw2 has a big ZERO pve content for me), but funny cause it seams that Druid is a PVE only class cause a druid cant do nothing like that outside of it wich IMO is a game design fault forcing gameplay outside of pve to certain classes/gimmick, everything should work independent from the gamemode(this happens when a mmo is well thinked at least), it's spirits m8 work in spvp but just to an extent and only in a few maps, they are useless in wvw so heal with a spirits and play with spirits is the same as play w/o utilities due the nature of  float numbers combat spirits would be hitted always and instantly destroyed, healing trap is always better then spirits at least outside pve.

The range about staff 3 i can imagine why u call it OP in pve, maybe it is in some spvp maps as well, but in WvW 1200 range m8 be a life savior to be saved or to save an ally wich is a good thing it igves more freedom of action and thinkering while in combat, ventari tablet heals 7k and 10k in pve and its also mobile but in a 900 range, so the 1200 range for druid since druid needs its presence to support IMO its a balance /trade off thing.

Staff 5 should be  an amazing skill IMO its actually very weak for it's CD 25sec.... should be changed like i said, remove regen increase slightly the healing quoficientse for projectiles that pass trough it and for the condi removal rather than regen should apply a direct heal, theres to many boons already in wvw and gamewide, its funny  Anet came with that crap of bring the player not the class but they  are doing the oposite alot of perma boon groups equals lower skill needed, stack perma boons is easy....but this is another story.

Another thing, glyphs while in Avatar for should be always 10 targets whatever gamemode is, i havent played druid in a while actually deleted mine, and if  i reccal they are now 5 targets an donly 10 in pve?

TDLR, it still seams the big issue on Druid its the staff skills that is limiting and borking up the class.

Glyphs aren't good enough to justify running in pve in most fights. Period. 10 targets or not. Glyph of the tides is the exception as it pushes when needed. Ranger has very few good, reliable support skills, and they need to be changed.

 

Staff needs buffs on its 1, 2, 4, and 5, but nerfs on 3.

[Aeolus.3615]

16 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Glyphs aren't good enough to justify running in pve in most fights. Period. 10 targets or not. Glyph of the tides is the exception as it pushes when needed. Ranger has very few good, reliable support skills, and they need to be changed.

 

Staff needs buffs on its 1, 2, 4, and 5, but nerfs on 3.

Glyphs are better than spirits on WvW  :) spirits are useless in wvw

So:

Spirits need better resistance to damage  (aply gw1 mechanic)

Glyphs since are not boon stacking  they dont serve for PvE  but that is a game design fault to make boon stacking extremelly easy  and eefective.

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[anduriell.6280]

Personally I share  Krispera opinion, the class has a very outdated design with bugs going back to 2012. 

Unplayed needs a full overhaul. Current design brings nothing to the class, even if everything would work fine it would be just a core+  which I understood Anet was against to (providing just more powerful versions of existing trait lines) 

I do not think Anet will make Druid a DPS elite ever again. The original design was something like this: as support / dps spec, however it was proven the design was very toxic for any mode because it was an unkillable dps. It would need to remove most of the heals and sustain traits and skills (CCs, heals, stealth...) . 

I have zero hopes thou, I mean is been 9 years and the ranger has never got the revenant or guardian treatment. Revenant in a sense of a full reworks or Guardian in the sense an elite was removed giving plenty of information on why and the elite resulting from it is still in the meta builds. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

2 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Glyphs are better than spirits on WvW  🙂 spirits are useless in wvw

So:

Spirits need better resistance to damage  (aply gw1 mechanic)

Glyphs since are not boon stacking  they dont serve for PvE  but that is a game design fault to make boon stacking extremelly easy  and eefective.

 

Glyphs aren't even that good in pvp modes either, though! They're terrible for the damaging effects, terrible for the healing effects (especially since you have to go back into CA for half of them to do any healing), and glyph of the stars, the one that might be useful, has a long casting time and is bugged to just stop functioning half the time! Glyphs aren't worth taking unless you're doing a bunker build, which, surprise surprise, takes the only one that doesn't directly support your team, Glyph the tides, which was nerfed to high hell!

[Moradius.7632]

Druid staff needs some love. It's damage is pathetic. Of course it doesn't have to be great dps, just usable in overland pve. I get it, it's mainly for healing but just try and kills regular ole mobs. It's like beating them with a wet noodle. I have to stick mainly to either short bow or axe when I'd rather be able to use the staff I was given. That weapon is part of being a druid and just using it to be a healbot sucks.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 5/30/2022 at 1:30 PM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Glyphs aren't even that good in pvp modes either, though! They're terrible for the damaging effects, terrible for the healing effects (especially since you have to go back into CA for half of them to do any healing), and glyph of the stars, the one that might be useful, has a long casting time and is bugged to just stop functioning half the time! Glyphs aren't worth taking unless you're doing a bunker build, which, surprise surprise, takes the only one that doesn't directly support your team, Glyph the tides, which was nerfed to high hell!

IC, and thats the issue with Druid, bunker CC support bot or a very anoying CC bot , with a good time gated heal role, that sometimes can be take quite some time to reach it.

Staff skills need to be stronger outsice Avatar and glyphs has compensation in avatar mode need to affect 10 players, IDK what could make them better in normal mode because like i said glyph are weak cause Anet awfull balance towards low effort boon stacking and performance towards thge boon stacking, that's what is making glyphs "feel" weaker, players are just carried with boon stacking.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 5/30/2022 at 8:30 AM, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Glyphs aren't even that good in pvp modes either, though! They're terrible for the damaging effects, terrible for the healing effects (especially since you have to go back into CA for half of them to do any healing), and glyph of the stars, the one that might be useful, has a long casting time and is bugged to just stop functioning half the time! Glyphs aren't worth taking unless you're doing a bunker build, which, surprise surprise, takes the only one that doesn't directly support your team, Glyph the tides, which was nerfed to high hell!

 

...Wut.  Glyph of Equality may be the best ranger utility in the game.  I will agree the others need a look at though.

Saw some discussion about staff as well--staff 3-5 are insanely useful, the only thing needing a look at is 2 and the staff auto really should heal allies.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

...Wut.  Glyph of Equality may be the best ranger utility in the game.  I will agree the others need a look at though.

Saw some discussion about staff as well--staff 3-5 are insanely useful, the only thing needing a look at is 2 and the staff auto really should heal allies.

Glyph of Equality is a 30 second cooldown skill that either dazes for 2 seconds or stunbreaks 5 people (only while youre using your very limited energy system, by the way!). Not that great, considering Protect Me does a very similar thing AND gives barrier and protection, on the same cooldown. 'Best ranger utility' better be ironic. Even among druid's glyph utilities, I'd argue Glyph of Alignment is better simply due to the number of effects it does.

 

Staff 5 is ok. It's a projectile block, which is nice on some fights, but I've found that most people either don't end up using it or you need to move before it gets good use. Staff 3 definetly needs nerfs, as it's a very fast, 1200 range movement skill that heals allies and gives protection. The speed, range, healing, or some combination should get nerfed, preferably the range and/or speed, especially considering that healing allies also decreases its cooldown.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Glyph of Equality is a 30 second cooldown skill that either dazes for 2 seconds or stunbreaks 5 people (only while youre using your very limited energy system, by the way!). Not that great, considering Protect Me does a very similar thing AND gives barrier and protection, on the same cooldown. 'Best ranger utility' better be ironic. Even among druid's glyph utilities, I'd argue Glyph of Alignment is better simply due to the number of effects it does.

 

Staff 5 is ok. It's a projectile block, which is nice on some fights, but I've found that most people either don't end up using it or you need to move before it gets good use. Staff 3 definetly needs nerfs, as it's a very fast, 1200 range movement skill that heals allies and gives protection. The speed, range, healing, or some combination should get nerfed, preferably the range and/or speed, especially considering that healing allies also decreases its cooldown.

 

I don't mean to be blunt...but do you play Druid?

Firstly for the glyph, a two second daze is huge in any fight--not only for the daze but for the fact you can self-chain ancient seeds off it--and also does a lot of breakbar damage.  It's also instant cast, meaning at any time you have an instant 2s daze without warning.

For staff 5, you do know you can blast finisher into it, right? As it's a water field...that blocks projectiles...and grants regen if you go through it...

Staff 3 already got a nerf a while ago, already got a recharge increase, and used to be able to evade with it.  Not seeing why you'd nerf it when our other 'kiting weapon' greatsword has the same range leap (which does have a small evade window), and also has a literal full stop block of everything and anything.  Greatsword also has a built in CD reduction of maul through skill 5, so the CD reduction of staff is actually more skillful as you need to pet swap most times during it to get that reduction.  

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

I don't mean to be blunt...but do you play Druid?

Firstly for the glyph, a two second daze is huge in any fight--not only for the daze but for the fact you can self-chain ancient seeds off it--and also does a lot of breakbar damage.  It's also instant cast, meaning at any time you have an instant 2s daze without warning.

For staff 5, you do know you can blast finisher into it, right? As it's a water field...that blocks projectiles...and grants regen if you go through it...

Staff 3 already got a nerf a while ago, already got a recharge increase, and used to be able to evade with it.  Not seeing why you'd nerf it when our other 'kiting weapon' greatsword has the same range leap (which does have a small evade window), and also has a literal full stop block of everything and anything.  Greatsword also has a built in CD reduction of maul through skill 5, so the CD reduction of staff is actually more skillful as you need to pet swap most times during it to get that reduction.  

I play druid, I main druid.

 

1. If you're running enough CC that the daze will force people to not have a stunbreak ready for it, congratulations, you've got a ton of CC and it's probably overkill. If you're in PvE, you already have a few good CC skills in the standard druid kit, in warhorn 5, CA 3, CA 5, stone spirit active, and staff 4 can be useful in a pinch. Glyph of the tides is better CC in pvp. As a stun or stunbreak for pvp? At that point, just run ele wyvern or rock gazelle, you'll likely hit more people with their CC than you will the relatively tiny ring from the glyph, along with being able to take protect me which functions better as a stunbreak and a defensive tool.

 

2. Yes, staff 5 can do area healing since it's a water field. News flash- healing spring does too, with better regen, and 50 condi cleanses for your squad, along with being a longer water field to work with. It's got a lot of potential as it's one of ranger's few projectile blocks, but with the way most fights play out you're either 1. Playing pvp as a druid on your own, which means staff is just a mobility tool with the occasional use of staff 5 shutting someone down who decided to run all projectiles or 2. You're doing a fight like boneskinner or slothasaur, where the projectile block comes in handy but you need to move too quickly for the full block to be useful. Yes, it's a projectile block and yes, those are inherently useful, but the way staff 5 in particular works makes it really hard to be useful in most situations for more than a mere moment. In pvp in particular it doesn't help much unless fighting someone who has all projectiles.

 

3. A few things- first, what does GS5 resetting maul have to do with swoop? Second, why do you need to pet swap to get the cooldown part of staff 3 to proc? You need to heal a target to get it to proc, if you mean healing the pet just call it back to you. Third, GS3 forces you in the direction you're facing, whereas staff 3 can move you that same distance in any direction. No about face needed, no way for the enemy to tell where you're going until you zip away, AND you heal whoever you land near. It's a bit much for the skill, and it more specifically breaks a lot of PvE stuff such as healing kiter on Q1 since you effectively become the flash running from quadim's pet to the kiter, among other things.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

16 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

I play druid, I main druid.

 

1. If you're running enough CC that the daze will force people to not have a stunbreak ready for it, congratulations, you've got a ton of CC and it's probably overkill. If you're in PvE, you already have a few good CC skills in the standard druid kit, in warhorn 5, CA 3, CA 5, stone spirit active, and staff 4 can be useful in a pinch. Glyph of the tides is better CC in pvp. As a stun or stunbreak for pvp? At that point, just run ele wyvern or rock gazelle, you'll likely hit more people with their CC than you will the relatively tiny ring from the glyph, along with being able to take protect me which functions better as a stunbreak and a defensive tool.

 

2. Yes, staff 5 can do area healing since it's a water field. News flash- healing spring does too, with better regen, and 50 condi cleanses for your squad, along with being a longer water field to work with. It's got a lot of potential as it's one of ranger's few projectile blocks, but with the way most fights play out you're either 1. Playing pvp as a druid on your own, which means staff is just a mobility tool with the occasional use of staff 5 shutting someone down who decided to run all projectiles or 2. You're doing a fight like boneskinner or slothasaur, where the projectile block comes in handy but you need to move too quickly for the full block to be useful. Yes, it's a projectile block and yes, those are inherently useful, but the way staff 5 in particular works makes it really hard to be useful in most situations for more than a mere moment. In pvp in particular it doesn't help much unless fighting someone who has all projectiles.

 

3. A few things- first, what does GS5 resetting maul have to do with swoop? Second, why do you need to pet swap to get the cooldown part of staff 3 to proc? You need to heal a target to get it to proc, if you mean healing the pet just call it back to you. Third, GS3 forces you in the direction you're facing, whereas staff 3 can move you that same distance in any direction. No about face needed, no way for the enemy to tell where you're going until you zip away, AND you heal whoever you land near. It's a bit much for the skill, and it more specifically breaks a lot of PvE stuff such as healing kiter on Q1 since you effectively become the flash running from quadim's pet to the kiter, among other things.

 

1. Agree to disagree I guess, I've won many a duel, escaped many a situation, and solo'd many a champion with that glyph

2. So we agree that Staff #5 is useful...great

3. GS 5 resetting maul is doubling up on a huge damage skill if you run power (like two 8-10k hits back to back if you run full crit chance).  The point is it is far more braindead to do than try to get the CD off staff #3 if you aren't near other friendlies.  

Also, I'd really look into pet swapping to get that CD reduction.  You don't call your pet back to you as it defeats the purpose of the kite--if you kite and then pet swap you get everything and CD reduction for healing the newly swapped in pet.  Do that into your staff #5 and gl anything killing you that doesn't vastly outnumber you.  

Edited June 4, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267