Returning old Stances back

[Tzozef.9841]

I've been testing a lot recently, Warriors now have no proper counter or sustain against this condi meta, which hasn't been addressed.

I understand the Spellbreaker nerfs. But I think the nerfs to the Stances are wrong. Doing both at the same time are a mistake as well.

4s Berserker stance...really? This does absolutely nothing.(In any vs. condi fight, 4s resistance does nothing to mitigate the dmg, and reducing the cooldown doesn't make a difference, because after 4s of condi resistance that's another 26 sec for them to just reapply the conditions, more than enough time to kill you. With 8 seconds+ pre update, that was the ideal amount of time to capitalize a counter attack or clear the conditions.)

Both Berserker Stance and Balanced Stance are too short for either of them to be effective at their intended purpose.

The Spellbreaker at least, provided counter-balance to the condi meta, post-the current Nov 7 changes are now making it even more imbalanced.

I have a lot of suggestions, i.e. making Revenge counter 5 conditions originally, but I think it's absolutely needed to return Stances to their original duration.

[Choppy.4183]

Not to say this will work in all scenarios, but the adaptation to condis from not having as long of a pulsing resistance period is to strike and then pull away, only recommitting fully once the shortened cd has passed (picking moments to strike in between). Alternatively, you could pack more clears and condi duration reducers (e.g. runes, food) and then use your clears only after your Berserker Stance resistance is up to clear what remains. The 30s cd on Berserker Stance but shortened duration requires a different approach to using the skill.

I mostly only play in small scale wvw/roaming and I haven't needed to add clears, but I can fall into serious trouble if I try to hassle zergs like I did before the patch unless I'm more careful or really lucky. Operating within a zerg, I imagine you'll need to rely more on group buffing, but I honestly have nothing more to suggest for that beyond the above, and I don't know if that would cut it. Not sure what would be needed in pvp.

That said, we're not worse off than other classes in regards to dealing with condis, we're just not as strong as we once were when it comes to facetanking them.

Balanced stance is the same, except it didn't get the benefit of a significantly reduced cd. Again, speaking only for small scale, you can either double up on Balanced Stance via Last Stand, be more mindful of the cc's in an engagement by dodging/blocking them, or else make sure you have fairly ready access to enough stun breaks to compensate. Berserker provides us with an incredible number of stun breaking opportunities, and we can benefit further by pairing with Rousing Resilience. Of course, this is offset by the loss of health sustain while in Primal State, but this too can be compensated by smart play, playing to the strengths of your build while not exposing yourself to your weaknesses. A Berserker can play as a core warrior if more sustain is needed, and a Berserker if you want to press your attack.

That all said, I wouldn't expect the stances to revert anytime soon and probably never. In the meantime, tweaks to our common builds and playstyles are called for, and mostly minor tweaks at that.

[Tzozef.9841]

@Choppy.4183 said:Not to say this will work in all scenarios, but the adaptation to condis from not having as long of a pulsing resistance period is to strike and then pull away, only recommitting fully once the shortened cd has passed (picking moments to strike in between). Alternatively, you could pack more clears and condi duration reducers (e.g. runes, food) and then use your clears only after your Berserker Stance resistance is up to clear what remains. The 30s cd on Berserker Stance but shortened duration requires a different approach to using the skill.

I mostly only play in small scale wvw/roaming and I haven't needed to add clears, but I can fall into serious trouble if I try to hassle zergs like I did before the patch unless I'm more careful or really lucky. Operating within a zerg, I imagine you'll need to rely more on group buffing, but I honestly have nothing more to suggest for that beyond the above, and I don't know if that would cut it. Not sure what would be needed in pvp.

That said, we're not worse off than other classes in regards to dealing with condis, we're just not as strong as we once were when it comes to facetanking them.

Balanced stance is the same, except it didn't get the benefit of a significantly reduced cd. Again, speaking only for small scale, you can either double up on Balanced Stance via Last Stand, be more mindful of the cc's in an engagement by dodging/blocking them, or else make sure you have fairly ready access to enough stun breaks to compensate. Berserker provides us with an incredible number of stun breaking opportunities, and we can benefit further by pairing with Rousing Resilience. Of course, this is offset by the loss of health sustain while in Primal State, but this too can be compensated by smart play, playing to the strengths of your build while not exposing yourself to your weaknesses. A Berserker can play as a core warrior if more sustain is needed, and a Berserker if you want to press your attack.

That all said, I wouldn't expect the stances to revert anytime soon and probably never. In the meantime, tweaks to our common builds and playstyles are called for, and mostly minor tweaks at that.

Great response! Will take it into consideration. I WvW a lot myself, so this does give food for thought.

[OriOri.8724]

In addition to what Choppy said, instead of bringing back the stances, the condi application across the board should be toned down instead. Along with hard CCs across the board. This would innately buff your stances, while also bringing other specs in line along the way.

[Tzozef.9841]

Ok I did some more testing (1v1), it's COMPLETELY useless against conditions.

The whole point of the warrior is to go UP CLOSE and be a melee fighter, with all the condi specs running around with high toughness and the ability to kite, warrior has ZERO counter play.

It's not "more difficult" it's straight up imbalanced and needs to be changed. Either changed back, or Anet has to adjust condi's in WvW/PvP rehaul big time.

[Choppy.4183]

@Tzozef.9841 said:Ok I did some more testing (1v1), it's COMPLETELY useless against conditions.

The whole point of the warrior is to go UP CLOSE and be a melee fighter, with all the condi specs running around with high toughness and the ability to kite, warrior has ZERO counter play.

It's not "more difficult" it's straight up imbalanced and needs to be changed. Either changed back, or Anet has to adjust condi's in WvW/PvP rehaul big time.

I still use it to fight (and defeat) condi scourges, mesmers, etc. in wvw as a double melee warrior. I don't know your build or playstyle, but you may just need more time to adapt from what you were doing to what will work for you now. For me, it just took some minor tweaks from what I was already used to.

That being said, as OriOri noted, condis really do need to be brought down a peg. Specifically, the spammable aoe stuff. It contributes massively to lag and has a very low risk:reward ratio. I also agree with him about cc, given the amount of long duration chainable ranged cc (and boon hate) that's out there.

[Hitman.5829]

Once the warrior is nerfed it remains nerfed forever. Berserker stance went from being a stance completely immune to conditions to the current state it is today.Don't expect a change back because the developers only play necros, thieves, and mesmers. Have you seen them around with their Anet tags? Every time I see one, its a thief, mesmer or necro. I have never seen a developer with warrior, never!

[Justine.6351]

Idk maybe they expect you to evade Condi bursts instead of eating it all. That which slips through they expect you to cleanse? Welcome to the experience of every other class in game.

[Gorilla.4120]

@Hitman.5829 said:Once the warrior is nerfed it remains nerfed forever. Berserker stance went from being a stance completely immune to conditions to the current state it is today.Don't expect a change back because the developers only play necros, thieves, and mesmers. Have you seen them around with their Anet tags? Every time I see one, its a thief, mesmer or necro. I have never seen a developer with warrior, never!

Now you've seen one. =)

[OriOri.8724]

@Hitman.5829 said:Once the warrior is nerfed it remains nerfed forever. Berserker stance went from being a stance completely immune to conditions to the current state it is today.Don't expect a change back because the developers only play necros, thieves, and mesmers. Have you seen them around with their Anet tags? Every time I see one, its a thief, mesmer or necro. I have never seen a developer with warrior, never!

Doesn't Ben play a warrior?

[ElChupaCabra.1379]

Foull-counter nerf I get it, BUT...

Honestly I think these stance nerfs, change the role of the Warrior (both berserker and vanilla Warrior) and makes it not needed... YOU ARE FORCED to play Spellbreaker to be relevant on WvW and FORCED into a specific playstyle. Alternatives? Viable ones? None, reroll and play another class because the class you mained since launch is nerfed to the ground... PvE mobs now make a rag doll out of my warrior, conditions on HoT maps eat my warrior alive, and I won't even start on WvW, again reroll to a caster class and or play spellbreaker, and even that is dodgy...

Give us our stances back the way they were at least them make more warrior builds viable, vanilla warriors viable, berserkers viable and the entire experience more enjoyable and rewarding for warrior players, no one had complaints on the stances...

If you main warrior and if you agree with me I am starting a petition to revert this absurd nerf on the stances. Reach me in Game, Joren Prime is the name.

[SWI.4127]

The most frustrating part is you know it's going to be 3 months before they change something again, and who knows what they even decide on. These quarterly balance patches are a joke.

[Aetatis.5418]

@Hitman.5829 said:Once the warrior is nerfed it remains nerfed forever. Berserker stance went from being a stance completely immune to conditions to the current state it is today.Don't expect a change back because the developers only play necros, thieves, and mesmers. Have you seen them around with their Anet tags? Every time I see one, its a thief, mesmer or necro. I have never seen a developer with warrior, never!

look up necro threads... they will tell you that anet only plays weaverelementalist, thieve and warrior...

go thieve forums and they will tell you anet only plays ele and guard...

basically "anet plays only my counters, please nerf them and buff me". (love the thread in the general profession area :D)

topic: in some cases the stances were just way too strong. having resistance for 15 - 45 sec by chaining skills + stances + full counter was too much. on top of that: a couple of invulnerabilities, blocks, evades, nike-shoes. what did everybody expect? i expected an adjustment at some point.i like the positive attitude of some answers here tho. warrior = still good enough

[Miko.4158]

balanced stance nerf is an issue, if you aren't running eternal champion. Guard has better stab protection now by quite alot , I flip flop between the two.I am using doylak signet in my build now aswell but its not great. Shame rune of sanctuary is 20% not 50%, there's no coming back from 20%......if you were expecting core warrior to get a nerf to stances you must have been waiting a long time. this is their first nerf as far as I recall.
as for the 'list' of invulns, nike shoes etc , yawn. this is a warrior forum for warriors to help warriors ......

[Hitman.5829]

@Mighty Cole.7849 said:

@Hitman.5829 said:Once the warrior is nerfed it remains nerfed forever. Berserker stance went from being a stance completely immune to conditions to the current state it is today.Don't expect a change back because the developers only play necros, thieves, and mesmers. Have you seen them around with their Anet tags? Every time I see one, its a thief, mesmer or necro. I have never seen a developer with warrior, never!

Now you've seen one. =)

legend has is that it was his first time on BASE warrior and after that defeat he change to necro. Did you see that developer sick moves on warrior? He was clearly a pro at it, not!