Choppy.4183

Nothing can defend it? You're a pretty experienced player so I'm sure you don't really believe this. As noted above, if you're riding a pony and a Sic em soulbeast looks ready to open up and you're up for a fight, dismounting is about the best thing you can do. Breaking line of sight, as you mention, is an easy and free way to prevent the burst if it's an option, but so will any block, evade, dodge, reflect, invuln, etc. Even if you can't dismount before the burst starts, dodge twice after rapid fire starts and you'll negate most of the damage. If you eat it and the ranger discounts you, you're gonna have a bad time because you french fry'd when you shoulda pizza'd.... Don't be like (M)Ike and you should be fine....

Dodging actually denies a bunch of the damage, and you can often stay on yer pony if do it well. I generally just dismount when I see what looks like an lb soulbeast planning to pew pew me... that makes a big difference.

To be fair, unless it's changed in the last couple of years, you only want to land the first hit of Flurry to apply the root, regardless of whether you're running condi or not. The remaining hits do garbage damage, even compared to auto. But a 4s immob can be good. So there's no need to remove the root because you only want to channel the skill for 1/4s.

As a casual observer, and former warrior main for years, it seems to have some serious burst coupled with good sustainability if played right. Aside from the occasional meme build (which aren't really viable now), warriors' main game has been the stunlock beat down with a less common tanky af attrition fighter. In the past week I've come across bladesworn that string together massive bursts without putting themselves in much danger (like, ahem, yolo zerker). Not necessarily op, but stronk... as in, in the top tier of new specs that I have to be extremely careful fighting against. Some of that might be the skill of the players (which has been high) than the spec, but it performed well. Note: this is in wvw, so with the longer cds that I didn't know about before this thread. That's a weird anet decision for sure if that's the case.

That's exactly where I'm coming from (warrior and ranger) and the build I most experimented with. I found cele renegade almost has a reverse logic to it than playing a power warrior or ranger, and my game play improved a bunch by slowing down, picking my dodges more carefully, and being mindful of exit options via shiro port (up cliffs, distance targets, etc). In other words, it's more stand and deliver than stick and move. Cele renegade can drop so much damage on someone, I had better results maximizing my opportunity to do that, than by trying to zip around, move cleverly, etc. Well, that and learning when to shift to staff and letting people exhaust their bursts while I played super defensively, then back to the bow to punish. I'm back to the ranger for now, but I did start to make some serious headway once I started to see the different fight logic involved.

Thanks for that. Looks like I basically have all the gear and it's just a matter of trying out Ventari which I haven't even looked at) instead of Jalis. Definitely worth a look seeing as there's no cost to it. 😀

Soooooo... basically everything that's endemic in wvw? 😁 I do look forward to moving to power Herald soon. I'm still finding my stride, getting used to the mechanic, skills, etc. Just today, I learned that I really stuck at using ports as a defensive mechanic, so I should probably get that down using safer builds before moving onto power herald. I'm just using the celestial shortbow now, which is super forgiving and allows me to get used to both Shiro and staff. Then I suspect I'll switch to vallun's "fallen angel" Herald to get used to Glint, then I'll go to power Herald. The game started me off with all celestial gear when I made the char, so I just started with builds that use it. Thanks for the tips!

Thanks for that. I've got three builds loaded up for experimenting, with the celestial shortbow being the one I've tried most (seems to be the most forgiving while I get used to the skills and class mechanic). While I have been able to melt camps and out fight people (1v1 mostly) even with my limited skill, I know it's because the people I'm fighting are far less experienced with fighting. Getting used to having less mobility and stunbreaks is probably the biggest adjustment for me. Being able to ramp up 25 might in seconds while dishing loads of direct and condi damage is nice, but I've really got to improve my use of the stability road from Jalis and general resource management, I'll check out the youtubers to improve on that. I think power herald will be where I eventually end up based on taste and playstyle, but it'll take me a while with the class before I'll be able to pull it off.

You seem to have missed the point of the 1vx question. 1vx is inevitable when solo roaming, the question was what tools rev has to deal with that (if any) or if it's just a bag waiting to drop into x's inve tory. Some classes are better suited to fighting outnumbered that others, some have good escape options, etc.

I haven't heard of that one before so will check it out for sure. He usually has pretty great explanatory videos of his builds, so that seems like a good place to start. Thanks for the tip!

Thanks for the vid. One thing that's clear from it and the limited time I've taken mine out is that I need to get a better handle in by defensive options and heal management. I do well offensively, but I don't handle pressure well yet, especially when I'm up against one of the stronger dueling classes or I get +x'd. Your vid shows it's just a matter of me better learning the build/class. One question: I noticed you often stay camped on your hero, even when you run out of energy, whereas I'm switching as soon as I get in that spot to gain energy to power more attacks, the swapping again when that energy runs out. Is there an advantage to camping or are you just not switching because you're focused on other aspects of the fight?

Thanks for the clarifications. As for skill, I mean, isn't it always skill when you win but you're fighting a broken OP build if you lose? That's what I tell myself anyway..... 😉 But, yeah, as a glassy type, it's unlikely that I'd eat all of that unless I was seriously outplayed and burned all my cds. Tbh, the smartest moves a guard can use is to stick as close as they can to me, especially when I try to create distance (because I have high melee burst too), and to use that annoying ring fence skill when I've burned my stab. It's not a guaranteed recipe or anything, but glass players really get punished when they make a mistake, and pressure can force those mistakes.

Thanks for your comments. The guards I've spoken to who I've seen (or fought) roaming certainly seem to like it, and most do tend to endorse DH as most fit for roaming. It was actually someone running an old Glacial Blow build who just wrecked me in a series of duels that got me thinking about guardian in the first place. I know it's not seen as meta or anything anymore, but I had no answer for it as he stuck to me like glue and the damage output was amazing. Based on the experience, and our conversations, it just seemed really fun and something to try out as he was roaming too. But the 1vx thing is a real consideration, since beyond fighting weak players, the strategy appears to be using defensive skills as you mosey to the nearest friendly gate. Which is fine, I guess, but often not an option. It's not a deal breaker by any stretch, but it's a consideration. You mentioned rev as being a bit of a counter, and rev is pulling out ahead of guard atm based on the feedback here and over in the rev thread. But, hey, I bought to slots last night, so maybe I'll make both. 😁 Oh, I'm aware. Like I said, I've been roaming around for years, occasionally with (or against) people who create roaming videos. The question wasn't so much, "will I be able to roflstomp errybodies?!!", but "do I have options if I find myself in a 1vx situation, whether to potentially defeat weaker players, change the balance of the fight, or escape". Case in point, as a glass ranger, I can often use mobility and limited stealth to try and peel people enough to win a 1vx or just bail altogether. A necro, by comparison, may seek to do the opposite in a 1vx, depending on the build. So that's more what I'm talking about... options for guards in 1vx situations, which are inevitable when solo roaming. On question 1, do you find it fun to solo roam with? I'm genuinely interested in subjective opinions. The tradeoff between 1v1 potential and escape potential may be a problem unless there's another option I'm missing. Fights or duels are the primary draw for me, but zergs and/or +x's are inevitable. That the burstiest, most mobile builds that proliferate the space are the weakness for the class is a real problem. That said, I do happen to have a set of speed runes if I need them.... 😜 EDIT: While you find the bursty classes the worst to deal with, that seems to be in conflict with @Guirssane.7082's opinion that their lack of sustain makes them food for guardians? Being someone who does run bursty mobile builds, I do find I tear through some guards and get eaten up by others. I'd assumed it was a skill question, but maybe it's more a matter of build. Thoughts? Oof. This is just following on from the previous comment and sapping my confidence in the potential. As mentioned at the top, I've certainly fought guard builds that have great sticking potential, but it's sounding like there are real limits to it, I'm not going to be able to escape a bad situation, and I likely won't be able to win one either unless I run DH traps and everyone kindly stays in them so I can. Alright, then it really does seem like rev is the way to go here as far as giving a new heavy a shot. I don't find boon rip to be too much of an issue during small scale fighting, but then none of my builds are completely reliant on them. Plus, I suppose people who rip boons will probably make a b-line straight to the guardian, which will hurt more than I'm used to when fighting boon rippers. What I might do is just create a guard with my second slot, use some gear boxes to kit him out, and just try it for a test drive with the idea that I'll probably end up deleting it for something else or keep it on the side to fight friends. Or, who knows, maybe I'll either like it for solo roaming or else use it to access other styles of play (like <gasp> support or commanding.... 🤣). Thanks to you all for the input!

It's a good idea, but I've been exclusively played wvw for years. I've mule characters hauling all sorts of things I can use while I sort put how to play. Conversely, I can count the number of times I've been in fractals on one hand. 😀

Hey, thanks for that. I'd originally thought I'd be going for guardian, and only recently figured I should open it to rev. Based on the feedback, I think it's going to be rev and I just bought a couple of slots tonight to get started on it. Seems like cele renegade is the best place to start, and then I'll stretch out to my power options. So a big thanks to you and to everyone else for all of the great information!

Thanks for all of your answers. The two above in particular requires a bit more research on my side, I think. I came across a rev recently who managed to outrun a few people really efectively, but I'll have to get my head around the tricks you mentioned to see if/how they might work with how I'm used to playing. As it happens, I have speed runes in the bank. The weakness to condi pressure and CC is a BIG consideration though. As I'm sure you know, both are basically currency in wvw, and that becomes especially true if a group lands on you and you need to either hold your own or gtfo. Super great info, so thanks for that. It might be smart for me to start out with Renegade (if I go forward with Operation Rev) to get those basics down before moving onto Power Herald, even it it does seem more in line with my usual M.O. I recall friends having trouble with condi management while playing power rev when it first came out, but that might have been because they were still getting power management basics down. Or maybe herald helped shore that up a bit, I don't know. Anyway, thanks again for the tips. This surprises me a bit, mostly because what I think are celestial shortbow renegades have been causing my bursty soulbeast some challenge lately, to the point that it's become a bit of a draw to the class. To be fair, quite a lot of celestial builds are causing me trouble these days, so it might just be particular to my build (I basically run glass with limited clears), and a soulbeast with Wilderness Survival and a GS might have more tools for the job. Still, it means I should give some more thought to how what appeared to be a pretty stronk build might struggle in solo play. Then again, if it's only weak against bursty soulbeasts, I can live with that. 😄 Really surprised to hear core power holds up for solo roaming, especially against ganky thieves. That alone practically makes the sale, since they're murder on my warrior and a competent thief will know how to pick apart my ranger builds unless I get the jump on them (I can take them from full to zero in 3-4s if I do). I suspect your success might be heavily dependent on skill that I don't have though, in which case I may need to start with the basics on Renegade before graduating to this. Then again, as a solo roamer, I'm totally fine with dying... a lot. I'm basically a Zombie King by this point, so maybe I should just jump into the deep end. Thank you all so much!👍

Heya revenants, just looking for opinions about how well the class holds up for solo roaming in wvw. I've been doing that for maybe 8 years, mostly on warrior but I switched to ranger just over a year ago, and now I'm thinking of trying out a new heavy. Before I spend any time or gold on it, I figured I should ask the experts about how the class performs. Pretty standard questions, like: Is it fun to roam around on? How does it hold up in 1vx situations? How's the escape potential for when things get hot (like when the horde appears)? What's it weak against? Any other thoughts? I tend to favor high damage mobile builds that rely on pressure, positioning, and dodging to survive, but I'm open to playing a class or build on its own terms to be effective (e.g. I played condi ranger for a while when I switched, and it's more tanky and less mobile than what I normally run). So it's no problem if rev makes me change up my playstyle. Anyway, I appreciate any advice you're willing to share!

Heya guardians, just looking for opinions about how well the class holds up for solo roaming in wvw. I've been doing that for maybe 8 years, mostly on warrior but I switched to ranger just over a year ago, and now I'm thinking of trying out a new heavy. Before I spend any time or gold on it, I figured I should ask the experts about how the class performs. Pretty standard questions, like: Is it fun to roam around on? How does it hold up in 1vx situations? How's the escape potential for when things get hot (like when the horde appears)? What's it weak against? Any other thoughts? I tend to favor high damage mobile builds that rely on pressure, positioning, and dodging to survive, but I'm open to playing a class or build on its own terms to be effective (e.g. I played condi ranger for a while when I switched, and it's more tanky and less mobile than what I normally run). So it's no problem if guard makes me change up my playstyle. Anyway, I appreciate any advice you're willing to share!

Sorry, I meant Moa stance rather than Dolyak Stance. My builds and playstyle are normally much more damage oriented, so these sorts of builds aren't intuitive to me even though I know they can be super effective because I've lost in fights against them. So while I love OWP on my damage build, I'm surprised to hear it works, and may even be necessary, on a build like this. I experimented with Boonbeast for a minute and tried smoke assault with OWP, but was underwhelmed by the damage because of the numbers I was used to. However, I can imagine how OWP could help in the aggregate and why it would be the optimal choice if SotP doesn't bring much to the party that you don't already have. So maybe it's just a matter of managing my expectations and playstyle. Anyway, thanks for the info.

Have you tried replacing OWP with SotP and Sic Em with Dolyak Stance? It might be overkill on the boons, but I half wondered if you aren't able to squeeze a lot of juice in the Sic Em/OWP windows. The build seems like it's more of a longer game (not that long though... I've fought similar builds and can confirm they have killing power).

I'm definitely aggressively damage oriented, and I can (and do) run away as is generally required for #roamerlife, but it's not like I need to keep a fight at 1500 range and otherwise cut and run. I also don't typically +1, rather, I'm usually in 1v1 or 1vx situations, though it is nice to have others to take the heat so I don't have to. Pew pew builds have plenty of tools to stay in close and medium range, with or without WS. Avoiding red circles, reacting to telegraphed skills, and otherwise managing opponents' opportunities to apply damage (condi or otherwise) is what it's all about. Condi clears are almost a secondary line of defense, tbh, and then there are the passive mitigations I mentioned before (examples of which are on another thread that has people posting celestial builds that use traited prot). As for warrior, and yeah, not to hijack the thread, I find it has less variety to achieve its role than ranger has, plus ranger often does the job better.. Case in point, a bunch of ranger builds out perform Nike warriors in every way, including mobility and damage and they have trait, traitline, and gear options when doing it, whereas there's far less wiggle room for warriors. Gunflame too... pew pew ranger is way better in most respects. So much so that I, and many others I've come across (former and current warriors) find ranger to be a more effective warrior than warrior is, not counting one or two niches. But warrior was just an example I brought up in relation to the subject, and I didn't mean to divert. Ranger just seems like a fun class with plenty of variety, at least for roaming around and causing mischief, and I've never found it wanting for condi management options.

Well, like I said, I don't use WS at all in my current default build (wvw solo roaming), and I'm pretty successful with it. In fact, I know a lot of people who skip WS in order to amp up their damage. It's just a matter of adjusting playtime accordingly, like using damage pressure to keep people on their back foot, positioning, range, evades, blocks and stealth. That being said, WS is a great line and a good fit for a lot of builds. I used to main warrior before coming to ranger and, to be honest, ranger seems far less constrained than warrior as far viable builds go. I also started out playing condi ranger when I switched over (because the person showing me the class plays condi) and I found other classes had harder times managing my condi bursts than ranger. Anyway, all this to say, I don't think ranger is in a bad way with respect to dealing with condis, and I wouldn't use the gear the OP mentioned even if they made the change he wants because the cost:benefit would be way too high.

The idea of cutting off a means to communicate with others so your block list doesn't "get too long" seems awfully bizarre. As noted, some people have fun with the salt and others use it for positive play. It's also handy now that people who are allies today may be opponents on the next relink.

I actually find rangers condi management toolkit to be strong as is, tbh. There's the obviously amazing traited survival skills, Bear Stance, Dolyak Stance, and traited protection are solid options for SB, Druid has options for total wipe on CA, NM has minor clear on dodge, plus the class as a whole has nice passive healing through regen plus other things I haven't mentioned. Add to that some great mobility, range, endurance regeneration, etc to frustrate application, and I find it's got a super solid kit. Then cleansing sigils, consumables, and other gear that's available to others. I honestly have little trouble handling condis, and I just use Bear Stance and sigils as far as actual condi clears go. That being said, it's not like I'm gonna be sad if we get a buff to shouts-gear interaction, even though I personally wouldn't use soldier runes.

It'd be rad if they got rid of the precast on sw3. Unless I'm imagining it, there's a delay before the evade frame kicks in that makes it pretty useless for intentional evasion. Otherwise, the sword seems pretty handy to me..... Maybe a bit more damage on the auto would be nice, but I find it pretty useful for positioning and movement.