Builds skills editor

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

In-game skills editor is a bad joke. While trying to choose skills, empty ones keep flashing, change specialization, flashing again, if you want to choose good, you need to switch through all traits, so it's really annoying.

https://imgur.com/a/nnFNNSm

It's not to make sure you forgot something. It checks only a visible tab, you may miss to set aquatic skills. It only flashes for skills you clearly see are empty.

It's like they made it on purpose to discourage new players to edit skills and stay weak. Just choose anything and don't open.

I have never bought additional space in-game for build templates, make no sense, built-in editor is unbearable. Only minimal convenience of easier switching already made builds. I took one tab when it was free, which is correct price for that.

.
I later searched for external editors. Luckily someone made a very good one and keeps it updated:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

The most important, you can read all skills without nagging flashing.
Also you can open it in few web-browser's tabs, easily comparing specializations.

Then, you can save builds as chat links or bookmark them in a web-browser.
So you can easily copy them to a character.

[Sobx.1758]

If that flashing is so unbearable for you then just pick first trait/skill you click on and then keep reading/switching them into the ones you want after reading the descriptions. For me it's far from being a problem and I think the flashing pulling attention to empty/missed slots is far more valuable to the new (or even not new) player than someone not being able to "just click on anything to stop the flashing".

[Freya.9075]

For some reason I ended up reading this op in commercial voice. 
 

are you tired of the flashy skill buttons when you’re reading through your skills? I got just the thing for you! This brand new website has all the convenience you need to make your perfect build! Get yours today at http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ 👍

[Diak Atoli.2085]

4 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

For some reason I ended up reading this op in commercial voice. 
 

are you tired of the flashy skill buttons when you’re reading through your skills? I got just the thing for you! This brand new website has all the convenience you need to make your perfect build! Get yours today at http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ 👍

Yeah, this read way more like an advertisement than anything else.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If that flashing is so unbearable for you then just pick first trait/skill you click on and then keep reading/switching them into the ones you want after reading the descriptions.

That won't do it as after switching specialization you need to randomly click something again and again, it's tedious and annoying.

3 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

For me it's far from being a problem and I think the flashing pulling attention to empty/missed slots is far more valuable to the new (or even not new) player than someone not being able to "just click on anything to stop the flashing".

As I wrote - it even doesn't inform about aquatic skills, so if someone may miss filling skills, then he for sure miss aquatic.

Yes, flashing brings attention to fill with random anything to stop flashing, not to choose correct skills, which is bad as players stay weak.

If they really wanted to make sure someone set skills, then they would add some calm remainder - and also about aquatics.

Constant flashing every few seconds is not needed and very wrong.

[Shena Fu.5792]

It definitely flashes way to frequently, and is super distracting when you're busy on other more important tasks. Like after using a level up scroll, and you are more focused on getting all the 30,40,50, or 60 level up perks.

 

Flash three times every minute is enough. Even better than flashing, is a tooltip that stays until player dismisses the tooltip or chooses a skill.

[Shena Fu.5792]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If that flashing is so unbearable for you then just pick first trait/skill you click on and then keep reading/switching them into the ones you want after reading the descriptions. For me it's far from being a problem and I think the flashing pulling attention to empty/missed slots is far more valuable to the new (or even not new) player than someone not being able to "just click on anything to stop the flashing".

All of that flashing is very distracting for a new player. While they are trying to read and understand what the all 60 skills and 27 traits do. How do you expect a person to learn everything in 5 seconds? 

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

13 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

are you tired of the flashy skill buttons when you’re reading through your skills? I got just the thing for you! This brand new website has all the convenience you need to make your perfect build! Get yours today at http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ 👍

Very nice, but change to: well established, a decade old website.

9 hours ago, Shena Fu.5792 said:

All of that flashing is very distracting for a new player. While they are trying to read and understand what the all 60 skills and 27 traits do. How do you expect a person to learn everything in 5 seconds? 

Exactly, when I started playing I took quick look over skills, traits and choose something barely efficient and stayed with it for long. It was too distracting to read everything carefully.

Basically empty skills or traits are similar to wrong ones, so enforcing quickly setting skills doesn't help new players. A tutorial about traits would be much better. But maybe it's as designed, a weak player spends more time to complete all missions.

[DeanBB.4268]

I prefer to use the wiki when planning a build. I open tabs for the skills, traits, runes and sigils so I can spend time pondering synergies.

Trying to do that in-game would be awful, trying to switch between trait lines, plus you really don't get all the info you need from tool tips.

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Shena Fu.5792 said:

All of that flashing is very distracting for a new player. While they are trying to read and understand what the all 60 skills and 27 traits do. How do you expect a person to learn everything in 5 seconds? 

Good that it's distracting, that way they can notice they didn't equip the trait/skill. And did you read what I wrote? Because I pointed out the easy and rather obvious solution to that problem:

20 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If that flashing is so unbearable for you then just pick first trait/skill you click on and then keep reading/switching them into the ones you want after reading the descriptions

_________________________

17 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

That won't do it as after switching specialization you need to randomly click something again and again, it's tedious and annoying.

It's done in seconds (and by "seconds" I mean about... 2 -and that's still easly giving it more time than actually needed) and in a way I wouldn't count as any effort. When you "switch specializarion", you need to click 3 times on any (for example first row in each column) trait.

17 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

Yes, flashing brings attention to fill with random anything to stop flashing, not to choose correct skills, which is bad as players stay weak.

In no way that flashing prevents you from picking what you want to pick. What is this weird spin supposed to be?

Edited August 20, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

In no way that flashing prevents you from picking what you want to pick.

That's why I wrote: discourages.

Filling skills randomly is a workaround, at first you will be nagged by flashing - very bad experience for a new player.

UI which needs workarounds is simply broken.

A new player will choose anything to stop being nagged. Maybe he will later figure out to keep filling randomly to read calmly, but those few seconds to fill are still annoying as those are multiplied, choosing specialization needs quite a lot of switching to compare.

Better to use wiki or external editor.

[Sobx.1758]

10 minutes ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

That's why I wrote: discourages.

Filling skills randomly is a workaround, at first you will be nagged by flashing - very bad experience for a new player.

UI which needs workarounds is simply broken.

A new player will choose anything to stop being nagged. Maybe he will later figure out to keep filling randomly to read calmly, but those few seconds to fill are still annoying as those are multiplied, choosing specialization needs quite a lot of switching to compare.

Better to use wiki or external editor.

I don't see how it discourages anyone from picking traits an skills of their choice. You mean you know you should pick something that makes sense, but after you make the initial click to stop the glow, you immediately forget about that fact? You don't. So it doesn't. The "glow" and subsequent solution of "just pick whatever for the time you'll read the trait/skill descriptions to make an actual pick" is even less of a problem for new players, because they unlock skills/traits one by one.

The alternative situation in this is: no glowing -> player doesn't know they didn't pick a skill/trait in a slot they just unlocked -> worse than even picking anything at random (not that "picking anything at random" is somehow the expected or most probable outcome in the current situation).

Edited August 20, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

Just now, Sobx.1758 said:

I don't see how it discourages anyone from picking traits an skills of their choice. You mean you know you should pick something that makes sense, but after you make the initial click to stop the glow, you immediately forget about that fact? You don't. So it doesn't.

Obviously you don't choose at first, you read and compare everything.

Select one specialization, try to read - flashing, fill it, want to compare another one, empty & flashing, fill again, switch, another flashing. Now you're annoyed after few times, so you choose something barely reasonable and play the game.

[DeanBB.4268]

Then don't. Use the wiki. It lists related traits and much more info than in-game.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

Obviously you don't choose at first, you read and compare everything.

Select one specialization, try to read - flashing, fill it, want to compare another one, empty & flashing, fill again, switch, another flashing. Now you're annoyed after few times, so you choose something barely reasonable and play the game.

Did you read my posts at all? You click on anything to make the glow go away and then just read and make an actual pick. It's extremely fast and easy to do, as already described multiple times before in this thread.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Did you read my posts at all? You click on anything to make the glow go away and then just read and make an actual pick. It's extremely fast and easy to do, as already described multiple times before in this thread.

Yes, and do it plenty of times after every switch, and a new player needs to figure it out, already wrote that.

As you edited:

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

is even less of a problem for new players, because they unlock skills/traits one by one

At first no, but after unlocking more you face this and you're still a new player at that time.

17 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The alternative situation in this is: no glowing -> player doesn't know they didn't pick a skill/trait in a slot they just unlocked -> worse than even picking anything at random (not that "picking anything at random" is somehow the expected or most probable outcome in the current situation).

While you unlock traits, it's quite easy to see that you need to set them.

And there is plenty options to let know. Flashing is the worst possible.

They could make a tutorial. Add pre-made builds to choose.

Bad traits are similar to empty, with bad build you're really weak, so it doesn't change much.

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

Yes, and do it plenty of times after every switch, and a new player needs to figure it out, already wrote that.

As you edited:

At first no, but after unlocking more you face this and you're still a new player at that time.

And how many times do you think that "new player" keeps spamming out their new builds that it somehow becomes so unbearable? You're just trying to invent a problem.

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While you unlock traits, it's quite easy to see that you need to set them.

And there is plenty options to let know. Flashing is the worst possible.

If 3 clicks left-to-right is too much for you, you will not be able to play this game, even with mechanist. Alternatively you can also read them in a "training" tab, at the same place you've been unlocking them.

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They could make a tutorial. Add pre-made builds to choose.

There is a tutorial, but the glow isn't there to teach you about traits, it's there to tell you in your face that you forgot to equip them. One has nothing to do with the other.

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Bad traits are similar to empty, with bad build you're really weak, so it doesn't change much.

No, they are not.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

15 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If 3 clicks left-to-right is too much for you, you will not be able to play this game, even with mechanist. Alternatively you can also read them in a "training" tab, at the same place you've been unlocking them.

And someone who needs flashing to guess he's missing skills having them open, will not be able to play too.

Reading training tab is again a workaround.

18 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

There is a tutorial, but the glow isn't there to teach you about traits, it's there to tell you in your face that you forgot to equip them. One has nothing to do with the other.

It has, after tutorial you would know what to set.

Okey, you like flashing, so sure, they could leave it as option, but everybody else should be able to turn it off.

[Sobx.1758]

15 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

And someone who needs flashing to guess he's missing skills having them open, will not be able to play too.

It has nothing to do with "guessing". It's a reminder if someone misses/forgets to pick something, the visibility of that flickering IS the goal here. I don't understand the point you're going for here. If that flickeringsomehow makes you unable to read the descriptions then -like it was already said multiple times- click on the first row left-to-right and then read. Again, it's extremely fast and easy.

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Reading training tab is again a workaround.

It's an element of the game and ui.

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It has, after tutorial you would know what to set.

Then you're not talking about "tutorial", but about the game creating the builds for you. That invalidates the point of the current build creation system, so sounds like bad idea. If you want to scrape whole builds, scrape them from other players, they're easly accessible.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

22 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It has nothing to do with "guessing". It's a reminder if someone misses/forgets to pick something, the visibility of that flickering IS the goal here.

You still not commented on aquatic, why there is no need to remind about empty hidden tab with aquatic skills?

If flashing must be every few seconds, then it's for players with memory limited by few seconds - they won't be able to follow any quest anyway.

Why it can't be optional? Basically every other software has don't remind again checkbox.

22 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Then you're not talking about "tutorial", but about the game creating the builds for you. That invalidates the point of the current build creation system, so sounds like bad idea. If you want to scrape whole builds, scrape them from other players, they're easly accessible.

??? tutorial would display whole menu and explain everything, you would clearly know how to use it after following it. Absolutely no need for flashing after that.

It seems you're against any changes.

[Sobx.1758]

10 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

You still not commented on aquatic, why there is no need to remind about empty hidden tab with aquatic skills?

What is there to comment on? They should add the flicker to aquatic tab too, sure. But then again there's the question whether or not new players will always unlock the skill/s that can be even slotted in aquatic combat, because if they don't -and feel free to correct me if that's somehow not a possibility- then THAT'S probably the only scenario where they can't stop the flicker/notifications. That's possibly why it's not a thing. If anet is willing to make an automated check, where it flickers only when the aquatic skills are actually unlocked, then sure, they should add it there too.

Is that enough of a response or did you expect something else here?

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??? tutorial would display whole menu and explain everything, you would clearly know how to use it after following it. Absolutely no need for flashing after that.

??? there is already a tutorial telling you about skills and traits. Flickering has nothing to do with a tutorial, as I've already explained.

10 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

It seems you're against any changes.

It seems you want to pretend (by completely and repeatedly ignoring it for the most part) making 3 clicks before reading the trait descriptions OR simply using the training tab to read their descriptions is some sort of huge effort/deal/gamebreaker/problem/whatever. It's an extremely simply solution for this non-issue that does more good than the opposite.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:35 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

It has nothing to do with "guessing". It's a reminder if someone misses/forgets to pick something, the visibility of that flickering IS the goal here.

You have skills & traits tab opened, it's all about guessing, because you can't forget something you have right in front of you. I explained how flashing can be annoyed, can you explain how anyone can forget to set traits seeing them clearly and earlier unlocking them one by one?

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It seems you want to pretend (by completely and repeatedly ignoring it for the most part) making 3 clicks before reading the trait descriptions OR simply using the training tab to read their descriptions is some sort of huge effort/deal/gamebreaker/problem/whatever. It's an extremely simply solution for this non-issue that does more good than the opposite.

It's workaround, and annoying one, I want to set skills, not play a clicking "mini game", it's more then 3 clicks as you will be switching specializations a lot. Yes, you can read static small descriptions on the left, but at that point way better to read wiki.

You pretend that flashing every few seconds, for something which is clearly visible, is need for someone.

11 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

They should add the flicker to aquatic tab too, sure. But then again there's the question whether or not new players will always unlock the skill/s that can be even slotted in aquatic combat, because if they don't -and feel free to correct me if that's somehow not a possibility- then THAT'S probably the only scenario where they can't stop the flicker/notifications.

Aquatic has the same skills as on ground, just some are not available. And after you open aquatic tab - it's flashing. But there is no indication you should switch to that tab, so you can easily forget to open and set it.

That's the point - flashing is only for something you clearly see. It's not to help you to find not visible things. That's why it makes no sense, they could add dialog informing what is missing, that way it would be indeed a reminder.

[godfat.2604]

I think they can just fill the holes with “static” big red bangs to remind people if it’s really so important to make unselected things very catching. At most maybe flash them just single time when the panel is opened. If I have unselected stats on my gears, they don’t constantly flash either.

I got so annoyed with the constant flashing (even reducing the frequency can help), and it’s also the reason why I only try to make my builds on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ if I need to ponder longer.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49 said:

You have skills & traits tab opened, it's all about guessing, because you can't forget something you have right in front of you. I explained how flashing can be annoyed, can you explain how anyone can forget to set traits seeing them clearly and earlier unlocking them one by one?

Why did you sunddenly quote my previous post again, which is also the part you've already commented on and I've already responded to? 🤨

It has nothing to do with "guessing". It's a reminder if someone misses/forgets to pick something, the visibility of that flickering IS the goal here. I don't understand the point you're going for here. If that flickeringsomehow makes you unable to read the descriptions then -like it was already said multiple times- click on the first row left-to-right and then read. Again, it's extremely fast and easy.

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It's workaround, and annoying one, I want to set skills, not play a clicking "mini game", it's more then 3 clicks as you will be switching specializations a lot. Yes, you can read static small descriptions on the left, but at that point way better to read wiki.

You pretend that flashing every few seconds, for something which is clearly visible, is need for someone.

No, it's a simple -and rather obvious- solution to a non-issue that easly brings more good to the table than the opposite. 3 clicks in a straight line that take a second or less is far from being a "clicking game" or w/e you want to pretend it is 😄 

"static small descriptions on the left"?

If you think "reading wiki is better" then it's nothing mroe than your choice you're free to make.

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Aquatic has the same skills as on ground, just some are not available.

Exactly, skills not being available underwater is literally what I was talking about, why do you think I need it explain when that's what I just wrote? I'm so confused about this opening sentence.

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And after you open aquatic tab - it's flashing. But there is no indication you should switch to that tab, so you can easily forget to open and set it.

Yes, I am talking about adding flashing indicating opening that tab -and everything I wrote above applies.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

On 8/23/2022 at 5:52 PM, Sobx.1758 said:

It has nothing to do with "guessing". It's a reminder if someone misses/forgets to pick something, the visibility of that flickering IS the goal here.

It has. You purposefully open skills panel and you see it clearly, and you want to set skills & traits - you can't forget and can't miss as every not selected trait is in other color.

Only possibility to miss something there - is when you at first set everything at random to stop the flashing... then all skills & traits are already chosen, so you can miss to replace something.

So constant flashing makes it only worse.

If it really must be flashing, then is should flash only once or two. But there are much better options.