Nerf Conjure Earth Shield In Next Patch - Big Mistake To Miss The Opportunity

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 9/22/2022 at 5:13 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I hear talks about earth shield nerfs all the time. I'm not pro or against, but could anyone explain to me WHAT would you nerf and how, and which results you hope to achieve with that?

Personally I would nerf the auto damage, give a better animation to the pull (more distinct from the block) and possibly remove the magnetic aura (or put it at the end of #3 instead of at the start)

Possibly you could look at making conjures in general more situational/brief and less "permanent"

Of course making all these changes at the same time may well make it too weak so I would be happy with just one of them at a time.

Edited September 26, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

On 9/22/2022 at 10:01 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

An alternative fix along the same lines would be a much shorter life span on the 2nd CES that lays on the ground after conjuring it up. The 2nd CES says for 30 seconds, which is just enough time for the Ele to use all the good skills on the 1st CES, some of them twice even, and then pick up the 2nd CES which refreshes the timer of the wielded CES, allowing it to use all those CDs again, some of them twice, again. This is plainly exploitable. The timer in which the 2nd CES stays on the ground should be lowered to 10 seconds. Either pick it up and refresh at just the right time to use the invuln twice, or it poofs. The 10s timer on the ground would really pressure the strategy in all of it, which is the way it should be.

This sounds to me like a really simple and effective solution which basically accomplishes what you said in #1 as well, indirectly.

[Sahne.6950]

On 9/23/2022 at 3:26 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

As a person who is relatively new to the game who only mains Ele,

you are aware that i play literally every class.... and you are aware that i play since release....i grew up on this game.... heck i even played gw1 😂

My elementalist just celebrated his 10. birthday last month!

 

All i am saying is, that its too early to cry for nerfs. The meta will change after the next patch. Some things get a buff, some get a nerf. Its simply too early to tell.

i mean... Soulbeast with 2 pets! That will be scary, but still you dont see me complain, because its literally too early... gotta wait and see.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:15 PM, Spellhunter.9675 said:

While the first sentence about weaknesses is true, rest is not.
Earth/water still has cleanses.
Fire/water still has ways to deal 
with power damage.
Fire/Earth still has support capabilities.

 

 

 well ofc does earth/water have a cleanse here and there, and of can the fire/water build use his invulns and blocks to survive power dmg. But those defenses are not enough to survive pressure from their "weak damagetype" for longer than 20 seconds without help from their teammates. Thats where the Earthshield comes into play, to buy more time with invulns/cc/blocks.

a Earth/water tempest will melt to condis alot faster than a guard sup would.

a Fire/water tempest will die to a powerbust alot easier than a guard sup would.

 

Against a certain damagetype the tempest will be incredibly resistant, but at the same time die alot faster to the other. Thats just how it is.  

Figure out the tempest´s weakness and he will die rather fast. Core guard on the other hand.....

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you are aware that i play literally every class.... and you are aware that i play since release....i grew up on this game.... heck i even played gw1 😂

My elementalist just celebrated his 10. birthday last month!

Only time spent pvping counts for pvp experience.

 

1 hour ago, Sahne.6950 said:

All i am saying is, that its too early to cry for nerfs. The meta will change after the next patch. Some things get a buff, some get a nerf. Its simply too early to tell.

i mean... Soulbeast with 2 pets! That will be scary, but still you dont see me complain, because its literally too early... gotta wait and see.

This isn't hard to figure out. If builds (A) & (B) are already overperforming, and if builds (C) through (Z) are nerfed, builds (A) & (B) become even stronger than they were before.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sahne.6950]

8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Only time spent pvping counts for pvp experience.

so i will be good xD

my best character has 6% world completion.  I exclusively pvp/wvw.  I migrated from other games, with the sole intention to play the pvp and wvw, i HATE pve.

8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

When a person plays pvp for a very long time, they are able to keenly judge how small changes will effect what will happen next.

I for sure, cant tell you what exactly will happen with the meta. If we see a increase of Berserkers for example, its bye bye for tempest! Berserker stunlocks and bursts a tempest with ease. Dont even get me started on how hard condiberserker counters tempest...  If we see a increase in condirevs, its bye bye for tempest. The chillspam completly butchers tempest.  What about Virt? if it will see alot of play, tempest will be hella overpowered, because it completly shuts down this spec...    There is so many interactions that we simply cant predict right now.

 

There is a few builds ready to shake up the meta after the next patch.  Saying what will be overpowered and what will be underpowered.... is simply not possible right now.

Big patch coming... lets play it before making assumptions, shall we?

Edited September 26, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

11 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

so i will be good xD

my best character has 6% world completion.  I exclusively pvp/wvw.  I migrated from other games, with the sole intention to play the pvp and wvw, i HATE pve.

When a bunch of people work at the same place for 10 years, they notice when a new guy shows up.

Besides that, one's ability to understand the game, although usually enhanced from a great deal of experience, is not to be judged on time spent playing alone, but more so the words that come out of their mouth when discussing the topic.

22 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

There is a few builds ready to shake up the meta after the next patch.  Saying what will be overpowered and what will be underpowered.... is simply not possible right now.

Your post history in this forum dates back to January 5th 2022, which means you are not so keenly aware of how many times myself and others have warned the dev team about exactly what would happen after a patching, it was ignored, and then it happened exactly as predicted, and then we had to wait a year or more for some absolutely broken meta to be fixed.

A good example of this is when they planned to first make big changes to Core Necromancer. I made this big thread to warn the devs about how overpowered the shroud sustain would be before it happened, warning them that there would be 2 or 3 Core Necromancers in every game. There were guys just like you who were showing up and saying the same exact things that you are saying now, guys who showed up on the scene within that year and left within the year to come. What ended up happening after the patch dropped? We had 2 or 3 Core Necromancers in every game and everyone in the community, including Necro mains, were in the forum complaining about how broken and overpowered Core Necromancer was.

 

[Sahne.6950]

21 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

When a bunch of people work at the same place for 10 years, they notice when a new guy shows up.

Besides that, one's ability to understand the game, although usually enhanced from a great deal of experience, is not to be judged on time spent playing alone, but more so the words that come out of their mouth when discussing the topic.

Your post history in this forum dates back to January 5th 2022, which means you are not so keenly aware of how many times myself and others have warned the dev team about exactly what would happen after a patching, it was ignored, and then it happened exactly as predicted, and then we had to wait a year or more for some absolutely broken meta to be fixed.

A good example of this is when they planned to first make big changes to Core Necromancer. I made this big thread to warn the devs about how overpowered the shroud sustain would be before it happened, warning them that there would be 2 or 3 Core Necromancers in every game. There were guys just like you who were showing up and saying the same exact things that you are saying now, guys who showed up on the scene within that year and left within the year to come. What ended up happening after the patch dropped? We had 2 or 3 Core Necromancers in every game and everyone in the community, including Necro mains, were in the forum complaining about how broken and overpowered Core Necromancer was.

 

You didnt see me showing up, because up until EoD i mainly played WvW(roaming), which is literally unplayable since the Cele and EoD spec infestion, so i migrated towards pvp since then.

Also i did not read what you and the other smart people said before i joined the forums. Roughly a year ago i started a new job, where i have alot of time inbetween tasks, so i only recently joined the forums.

 

Good thing we dont have to wait a year for patches currently. They already annouced a patch for next month. So any "balancing mistakes" that might have slipped thru, can be looked at next month.

They are patching pretty frequently, and i am SO HAPPY for that.

I am saying: " hey guys.. lets just wait" because i know that there will be indeed a patch just 4 weeks after the next one.

So while i totally understand your position, i want to remind you that they are gonna change alot next week and that we just have to see how it plays out. Luckily there is another patch coming VERY SOON, so we can fix the "balance mistakes" that have slipped thru right now. I am pretty certain that Tempest and the Earthsield will be things they take a look at or already did take a look at. But for now, Anet thinks, that the level of performance is where it should be. I am 100% certain that they are aware of the situation as the playrate% of tempest did just skyrocket.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Terrorhuz.4695]

9 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

Personally I would nerf the auto damage, give a better animation to the pull (more distinct from the block) and possibly remove the magnetic aura (or put it at the end of #3 instead of at the start)

Possibly you could look at making conjures in general more situational/brief and less "permanent"

Of course making all these changes at the same time may well make it too weak so I would be happy with just one of them at a time.

I'd just make the invuln last 1.5s (but you can move at walking speed while channeling, like Blade Renewal), and ok on AA chaing not being a nuke. Also agree on different animation for the pull. But at the end of the day, I think I see a lot of vastly different ideas, because we know earth shield is problematic but we don't really know why or how. Also Trevor's suggestion of reducing the duration to 10s makes sense, I guess.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

38 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'd just make the invuln last 1.5s (but you can move at walking speed while channeling, like Blade Renewal), and ok on AA chaing not being a nuke. Also agree on different animation for the pull. But at the end of the day, I think I see a lot of vastly different ideas, because we know earth shield is problematic but we don't really know why or how. Also Trevor's suggestion of reducing the duration to 10s makes sense, I guess.

Yeah.

I think I would start with just putting magnetic aura at the end of #3 and improving the #4 animation, just those changes doesn't "technically" even nerf earth shield but allows more counterplay such as interrupting shield 3 to deny the projectile reflect, and dodging the pull (which is currently hard to see in a teamfight).

Those would probably not be enough, so then I would proceed to nerfing the auto damage a bit (in line with the feb 2020 nerfs which Earth Shield slipped by) as well as something like either lowering the invuln duration (your suggestion) or lowering the Conjure Earth Shield duration (op's suggestion).

Edited September 26, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741