Easier rev build for pve.

[captrowdy.9561]

So I’m trying to get into pve that’s not open world. I mainly pvp/wvw. I do fine on herald/ren/vindi but I’m not used to repeating rotations. When I look up builds for rev I see rotations that go on forever. Are there builds  out there that I can still do decent dps on? I’m not trying to do hardmode or whatever but I want to do decent dps so I’m not holding back the group. Thanks 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Those rotations... fall apart the moment that you need to dodge or CC.  Doing damage with rev is about getting your priorities straight more than it is about following a 30 step rotation.  Now, condi renegade is the highest DPS rev has, but it is also notoriously difficult.  The easiest version that can do passable DPS is power Vindicator.  The build looks like this, and the rotation looks like this.  Now, the rotation list looks like a gigantic mess, but as far as priorities go, there's only 4 of them:

1. Dodge when your endurance is full.
2. In Alliance Stance, blow as much energy as possible on greatsword skills, topping off with alliance skills and finishing with Eternity's Requiem.  
3. When you swap legends to shiro, swap weapons to sword/sword.  Repeat on the way back.
4. In Shiro's Stance, activate impossible odds while using all sword DPS skills.

That's it.  So long as you have a decent grasp on which skills do damage and which ones don't, you'll do fine.  The only part I would bother memorizing is the opener.  Now, that all said, I would only recommend this build in places where you do not need to do any crowd control, for that build is incredibly bad at it.  For the rest of the game, I'd recommend two changes:  run staff as the weapon swap, and run Jalis instead of Shiro.

The reasons for these changes are simple.  The staff is for crowd control, which against many raid bosses and certain fractal bosses is downright necessary.  Since the weapon swap is reserved for CC, you'll be camping the greatsword.  The only changes to the opener will be that, instead of blowing all of your energy on greatsword skills in the opener, you'll blow them on alliance skills.  The opener will be Spear -> dodge -> Nomad's Advance -> Scavenger Burst -> Swap to Jalis + Eternity's Requiem.  In Jalis, toggle on Vengeful Hammers, and use the greatsword DPS skills as they come off cooldown.  Now, the reason why Jalis is preferred here is because Shiro's toggle activates on hit, and the greatsword is a slower weapon.  Jalis also has a better toolbox than Shiro, being capable of using Forced Engagement for further CC and Inspiring Reinforcements for group stability with more damage on top.

Otherwise, the priorities remain basically the same.   

[captrowdy.9561]

3 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Those rotations... fall apart the moment that you need to dodge or CC.  Doing damage with rev is about getting your priorities straight more than it is about following a 30 step rotation.  Now, condi renegade is the highest DPS rev has, but it is also notoriously difficult.  The easiest version that can do passable DPS is power Vindicator.  The build looks like this, and the rotation looks like this.  Now, the rotation list looks like a gigantic mess, but as far as priorities go, there's only 4 of them:

1. Dodge when your endurance is full.
2. In Alliance Stance, blow as much energy as possible on greatsword skills, topping off with alliance skills and finishing with Eternity's Requiem.  
3. When you swap legends to shiro, swap weapons to sword/sword.  Repeat on the way back.
4. In Shiro's Stance, activate impossible odds while using all sword DPS skills.

That's it.  So long as you have a decent grasp on which skills do damage and which ones don't, you'll do fine.  The only part I would bother memorizing is the opener.  Now, that all said, I would only recommend this build in places where you do not need to do any crowd control, for that build is incredibly bad at it.  For the rest of the game, I'd recommend two changes:  run staff as the weapon swap, and run Jalis instead of Shiro.

The reasons for these changes are simple.  The staff is for crowd control, which against many raid bosses and certain fractal bosses is downright necessary.  Since the weapon swap is reserved for CC, you'll be camping the greatsword.  The only changes to the opener will be that, instead of blowing all of your energy on greatsword skills in the opener, you'll blow them on alliance skills.  The opener will be Spear -> dodge -> Nomad's Advance -> Scavenger Burst -> Swap to Jalis + Eternity's Requiem.  In Jalis, toggle on Vengeful Hammers, and use the greatsword DPS skills as they come off cooldown.  Now, the reason why Jalis is preferred here is because Shiro's toggle activates on hit, and the greatsword is a slower weapon.  Jalis also has a better toolbox than Shiro, being capable of using Forced Engagement for further CC and Inspiring Reinforcements for group stability with more damage on top.

Otherwise, the priorities remain basically the same.   

Awesome thanks. Really wanted to do condi renegade but yes it seems difficult 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

2 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

Awesome thanks. Really wanted to do condi renegade but yes it seems difficult 

Oh yeah, the hardest part about condi renegade are that it's two biggest priorities are difficult to meet: legend swap under 10 energy, and do not delay legend swap.  Invoking Torment does a a high amount of damage, and the legend + weapon swap allows condi rev to proc swap sigils on both of its weapon every 9 seconds.  This puts a lot of damage on the legend + weapon swap, so delaying it for any reason seriously tanks the DPS.  Charged Mists is also necessary to do high damage, since the condi build is much more energy hungry than the power builds.  Combine these two, and you'll find the condi renegade has a margin of error in the sub-second range for its rotation... for the entire fight.  As errors compound, everything gets to be slightly more and more off, until eventually the whole pacing goes completely off the rails and the damage tanks again.

[Asum.4960]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:01 PM, captrowdy.9561 said:

Awesome thanks. Really wanted to do condi renegade but yes it seems difficult 

If that is a build you really enjoy, I suggest at least trying the Shiro+Mallyx variant, rather than taking Kalla. You lose some DPS, but it actually makes condi Ren quite easy to play once you get the gist of things. Especially since it makes Charged Mists drastically easier to manage, it will probably provide you with similar or better performance because of that in practice, while having an easier time. 

 

That said, Power Vindicator actually is fairly decent rn and quite fun to play - although it's DPS uptime can suffer quite a bit in mechanically complex fights. The mobility of Nomads Advance and Phantom's Onslaught is quite addicting though.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/13/2022 at 12:15 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

Those rotations... fall apart the moment that you need to dodge or CC.  Doing damage with rev is about getting your priorities straight more than it is about following a 30 step rotation.  Now, condi renegade is the highest DPS rev has, but it is also notoriously difficult.  The easiest version that can do passable DPS is power Vindicator.  The build looks like this, and the rotation looks like this.  Now, the rotation list looks like a gigantic mess, but as far as priorities go, there's only 4 of them:

1. Dodge when your endurance is full.
2. In Alliance Stance, blow as much energy as possible on greatsword skills, topping off with alliance skills and finishing with Eternity's Requiem.  
3. When you swap legends to shiro, swap weapons to sword/sword.  Repeat on the way back.
4. In Shiro's Stance, activate impossible odds while using all sword DPS skills.

That's it.  So long as you have a decent grasp on which skills do damage and which ones don't, you'll do fine.  The only part I would bother memorizing is the opener.  Now, that all said, I would only recommend this build in places where you do not need to do any crowd control, for that build is incredibly bad at it.  For the rest of the game, I'd recommend two changes:  run staff as the weapon swap, and run Jalis instead of Shiro.

The reasons for these changes are simple.  The staff is for crowd control, which against many raid bosses and certain fractal bosses is downright necessary.  Since the weapon swap is reserved for CC, you'll be camping the greatsword.  The only changes to the opener will be that, instead of blowing all of your energy on greatsword skills in the opener, you'll blow them on alliance skills.  The opener will be Spear -> dodge -> Nomad's Advance -> Scavenger Burst -> Swap to Jalis + Eternity's Requiem.  In Jalis, toggle on Vengeful Hammers, and use the greatsword DPS skills as they come off cooldown.  Now, the reason why Jalis is preferred here is because Shiro's toggle activates on hit, and the greatsword is a slower weapon.  Jalis also has a better toolbox than Shiro, being capable of using Forced Engagement for further CC and Inspiring Reinforcements for group stability with more damage on top.

Otherwise, the priorities remain basically the same.   

The dps rotations do not fall apart if you dodge once. You just either delay it slightly or replace 1 aa with dodge. It is very easy to do when you understand the rotations. Most rotations in gw2 are very simple with the exception of weaver and 3kit engi.

Why would you run jalis instead of shiro? Thats something you should NEVER do as a dps power rev. If anything you replace alliance with jalis since alliance is kinda bad anyways and both offer similar dps.

Vindicator rotation is extremely simple anyways. No need to simplify it even further. If running the shiro/jalis version you just legend swap on cd and spam gs 2,3,5 without interrupting aa chain too much.

With alliance you want to use elite twice and the leap once per swap.

 

The rotations go on forever because they have a loop. Learning those loops is fairly simple and quick on ren. Both ren and vindi have a perfectly looping rotation. Both are explained and very short on snowcrows. Looks longer than it really is because they usually list all aas aswell.

Ren loop for example on shortbow is just 2,5,4 with an aa in between to allow the elite to double procc and then 2 on cd and wait until 4 is ready again then 4,3 and swap. Thats not hard and already 50% of the rotation.

And to double procc both on swap sigils you always swap legends before weapons. Thats why the mallyx loop starts on mace where you use mallyx elite 2 and swap to shortbow and proceed like i wrote earlier. The same happens btw in the kalla loop where after the last shortbow 3 its swap to kalla, shortbow 2 and weapon swap and proceed with mace loop.

Thats really not hard to do at all. Vindicator is even simpler. With the gs/sword build you want to use gs5 2 times on gs though. Sometimes the order of the skills is important to not delay the weapon/legend swap too much.

These things do not fall apart when you have to dodge. Only cc is a bit harder because of energy. Usually you just skip 1 skill like icerazor to have enough energy for cc.

 

Most gw2 rotations are very simple. no need to simplify them even more.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/13/2022 at 4:01 PM, captrowdy.9561 said:

Awesome thanks. Really wanted to do condi renegade but yes it seems difficult 

Condi ren is not hard. basically just a mallyx shortbow and a kalla mace loop. When starting its easier to just ignore auto attack chains first and trying to get just the skill order right. Usually mace wants to be on kalla and shortbow on mallyx.

Mace: 2 on cd. 2, 3, f3, 5 until 3 is rdy again then 3, bleed spirit + icerazor, legend swap, elite, 2 weapon swap.

Shortbow: 2 on cd. 2,4,5 with an aa in between. 4,3 legend swap, 2, weapon swap.

Fill gaps with aa. there is an optimal amount of aas but you can ignore that until you get the order right.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

2 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

The dps rotations do not fall apart if you dodge once. You just either delay it slightly or replace 1 aa with dodge. It is very easy to do when you understand the rotations. Most rotations in gw2 are very simple with the exception of weaver and 3kit engi.

Why would you run jalis instead of shiro? Thats something you should NEVER do as a dps power rev. If anything you replace alliance with jalis since alliance is kinda bad anyways and both offer similar dps.

Vindicator rotation is extremely simple anyways. No need to simplify it even further. If running the shiro/jalis version you just legend swap on cd and spam gs 2,3,5 without interrupting aa chain too much.

With alliance you want to use elite twice and the leap once per swap.

 

The rotations go on forever because they have a loop. Learning those loops is fairly simple and quick on ren. Both ren and vindi have a perfectly looping rotation. Both are explained and very short on snowcrows. Looks longer than it really is because they usually list all aas aswell.

Ren loop for example on shortbow is just 2,5,4 with an aa in between to allow the elite to double procc and then 2 on cd and wait until 4 is ready again then 4,3 and swap. Thats not hard and already 50% of the rotation.

And to double procc both on swap sigils you always swap legends before weapons. Thats why the mallyx loop starts on mace where you use mallyx elite 2 and swap to shortbow and proceed like i wrote earlier. The same happens btw in the kalla loop where after the last shortbow 3 its swap to kalla, shortbow 2 and weapon swap and proceed with mace loop.

Thats really not hard to do at all. Vindicator is even simpler. With the gs/sword build you want to use gs5 2 times on gs though. Sometimes the order of the skills is important to not delay the weapon/legend swap too much.

These things do not fall apart when you have to dodge. Only cc is a bit harder because of energy. Usually you just skip 1 skill like icerazor to have enough energy for cc.

 

Most gw2 rotations are very simple. no need to simplify them even more.

You're asking me questions that are clearly answered in the text that you're quoting.  

[Kulvar.1239]

On 10/13/2022 at 8:48 AM, captrowdy.9561 said:

So I’m trying to get into pve that’s not open world. I mainly pvp/wvw. I do fine on herald/ren/vindi but I’m not used to repeating rotations. When I look up builds for rev I see rotations that go on forever. Are there builds  out there that I can still do decent dps on? I’m not trying to do hardmode or whatever but I want to do decent dps so I’m not holding back the group. Thanks 

These rotations assume you'll only fight a static target with no downtime. So it's an optimized sequence for an hypothetical scenario that almost never happen anyway.

[Nephalem.8921]

11 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

You're asking me questions that are clearly answered in the text that you're quoting.  

No you explain why you want jalis. Not why you replace shiro and not the trash alliance legend. Impossible odds does almost twice as much as hammers and jalis is even equal to alliance in longer fights.

Its shiro >jalis = alliance

43 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

These rotations assume you'll only fight a static target with no downtime. So it's an optimized sequence for an hypothetical scenario that almost never happen anyway.

Thats so wrong. Sometimes you have to adapt them slightly but most of the time you can do them easily. Check wingman logs of all >80% players. they are consistently doing rotations. People are doing rotations in ht cm too...

[Kulvar.1239]

4 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

No you explain why you want jalis. Not why you replace shiro and not the trash alliance legend. Impossible odds does almost twice as much as hammers and jalis is even equal to alliance in longer fights.

Its shiro >jalis = alliance

Thats so wrong. Sometimes you have to adapt them slightly but most of the time you can do them easily. Check wingman logs of all >80% players. they are consistently doing rotations. People are doing rotations in ht cm too...

If you adapt them it's not a rotation, it's a suggestion. Don't confuse rotation and priority list.

[Nephalem.8921]

Just now, Kulvar.1239 said:

If you adapt them it's not a rotation, it's a suggestion. Don't confuse rotation and priority list.

That makes no sense. Its still a rotation if you adapt it. Its not like you are freestyling every boss. usually its 95% golem rotation and the last 5% being minor adaptions.

There are specs that work with a priority list like mirage and then there is condi ren that has perfect loops thanks to energy.

[Kulvar.1239]

12 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

That makes no sense. Its still a rotation if you adapt it. Its not like you are freestyling every boss. usually its 95% golem rotation and the last 5% being minor adaptions.

There are specs that work with a priority list like mirage and then there is condi ren that has perfect loops thanks to energy.

There's no freestyling involved with a priority list.

You can't "perfect loop" if something disturb you.

[Nephalem.8921]

22 minutes ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

There's no freestyling involved with a priority list.

You can't "perfect loop" if something disturb you.

That is the difference between a good player and "hi dps".

People can do perfect rotations in ff14 ultimate which has 50 times more mechanics than any gw2 encounter. why shouldnt you be able to do that in gw2 encounters with their 3 mechanics?

Edited October 16, 2022 by Nephalem.8921

[Kulvar.1239]

29 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

That is the difference between a good player and "hi dps".

People can do perfect rotations in ff14 ultimate which has 50 times more mechanics than any gw2 encounter. why shouldnt you be able to do that in gw2 encounters with their 3 mechanics?

Because sometimes you need to handle one of the 3 mechanic.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1 hour ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

Because sometimes you need to handle one of the 3 mechanic.

I wouldn't bother.  He's acting in bad faith.  

[Nephalem.8921]

On 10/17/2022 at 1:39 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I wouldn't bother.  He's acting in bad faith.  

I am just tired of being top dps as quick scrapper in pugs. Most rotations are not that hard. They are definitely doable while handling mechanics. But you cant improve or learn when the first thing new players learn is that it is impossible to do or not beneficial. A well played mirage does 40k+ on SH. Thats like 60% more than pug dps.

On 10/16/2022 at 11:52 PM, Kulvar.1239 said:

Because sometimes you need to handle one of the 3 mechanic.

? I wrote that in other mmos with way more mechanics people still manage to do rotations just fine while doing mechanics. Thats actually a normal thing to do in other mmos.

[Kulvar.1239]

36 minutes ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

I wrote that in other mmos with way more mechanics people still manage to do rotations just fine while doing mechanics. Thats actually a normal thing to do in other mmos.

Which ones ? FF14 ? WoW ?