Blood Magic Rework (with Alacrity)

[Asum.4960]

Blood Magic in my opinion is in a fairly awkward spot since quite some time, so I wanted to take a little bit of time to think of ideas to make it more broadly appealing - as well as allowing it to enable a variety of builds and open up new roles for Necromancer. 

 

My design goals with these ideas are the following: 

- Enable Blood Magic as a solid choice for casual and solo play, rather than a trap choice that sacrifices way too much damage for far too little sustain

- Maintain it's niche role as sustain line in PvP

- Enable the Alacrity share role for Necromancer, specifically for Scourge, without allowing it to be compounded with Heal Scourge's incredible revival Utility, nor Harbinger's Quickness

 

To achieve those goals I'd make the following changes:

 

Minor's: 

Remove Last Rites' Healing Power scaling based on missing health and instead make it grant flat Healing Power and Concentration to support the added Boon Support to the line. 

 

Adept:

Quickening Thirst currently is merely a movement speed passive in competitive, and Blood Bond never really found it's niche. What is desperately missing from Blood Magic though is any form of Boon Support.

For Quickening Thirst I'd somewhat merge the current Blood Bond into this at the cost of the Dagger* component, into: Increases Movement Speed by 25% while above 75% health, cast Lesser Signet of Vampirism on your foe when you inflict bleeding on them that matches or exceeds the threshold (4).

*this could still be made to synergise with Dagger. This is a weapon that never found it's niche. By adding some Bleeding to it's AA, as well as potentially a slight Dark Pact rework, this weapon could at least finally see the light of day as dedicated hybrid weapon (at least for casual play), synergising heavily with celestial through it's strike damage, healing and then bleeding components.

 

Instead for Blood Bond: Granting allies Regeneration now also grants them Might and Fury.

These are Boons Necro on a core level simply needs more of if it wants to compete in the boon support field. This Trait synergises with the Mark of Evasion Minor baseline, and Staff as Support Weapon - and is in direct competition with Ritual of Life's revival Utility.

Alternatively Furious Demise in Curses could be made AoE Fury, in which case just Might share on this might be fine as build enabler. 

/E: I also still want to see Sand Savant in Scourge reworked into a proper support Trait, with it either adding to or trading the Torment on Manifest Sand Shade and Desert Shroud for Boons - I've long felt this could also be a good place to introduce Alacrity to the spec, but unlike the Alacrity addition proposed to Blood Magic later, this adds some dangerous role compression with Transfusion Heal Scourge, which might need to see Transfusion nerfed, which I'd rather avoid.

 

Master:

Here I think Blood Magic has some major problems. The Master Trait section is essentially three lacklustre Traits competing with each other for the same niche of healing allies.

 

Banshee's Wail: I'd retire this Trait completely. The outgoing Healing Modifier is laughable since Necromancer has incredibly few and low opportunities to actually heal allies, and Barriers as on Scourge don't scale with the Outgoing Healing stat. The Warhorn CD reduction and duration increases should be baseline - and even then the weapon still requires buffs and reworks, especially for Locust Swarm. 

 

Vampiric Presence I think is fine, it could use a buff though and I don't really like how this slot competes for group healing either. What I could see working is making this trait share the current base minor Life Steal as is (or just make the Vampiric Minor AoE), but primarily drastically buff the Vampiric Minor Trait for increased self only sustain and damage.

 

Life from Death: I'd kind of like to see this retired/reworked as well. With Ritual of Life and Transfusion, the line has enough revival tools, and the Shroud exit timing to heal is cumbersome on the one Spec, Heal Scourge, where it might see use. Healing for a smaller amount on any Shroud Skill usage might make it an actually useful healing Trait instead (with a very low base value and decent Healing Power Scaling). Maybe even add a increased Regeneration effect to it and it's a solid Heal Scourge pick.

 

What'd I'd like to see replacing Banshee's Wail is a return of sorts of Vampiric Rituals, in a Trait that adds Protection (or custom boon per well) to Wells, as well as reducing their CD. 

 

Grandmaster: 

Blood Bank: Either similarly to Medical Dispersion Field it now stores a portion of incoming healing to be applied as Barrier to self only at a fixed interval, or just applies a flat amount of Barrier to self at an interval while in combat.

Most importantly, additionally applying Barrier to allies now grants them Alacrity.

 

This turns Blood Bank from a "win harder" largely trap trait into a solid Alacrity generator for solo play while maintaining some of the sustain functionality.

More importantly though, this opens up the Alacrity share role for Scourge with it's Barrier sharing exclusively - and equally importantly, directly competes with Transfusion. 

This means Heal Scourge with it's incredibly revival Utility remains a conscious choice to make with a clear sacrifice of a DPS slot as it does not overlap with core Boon Supports, while allowing cScourge to sacrifice a good chunk of DPS to become an Alacrity hybrid by dropping Soul Reaping in favour of Blood Magic. Quickness Harbinger without access to to Barrier share can't provide both key boons to allies.

 

To sum the reworked line up:

 

Minor Adept: 

Mark of Evasion: Leave a Mark of Blood (AoE Bleeding and Regeneration) when you dodge.

 

Major Adepts:

Ritual of Life: Cast Lesser Well of Blood when reviving an ally. Wells of Blood revive allies every pulse.

Quickening Thirst: Increases Movement Speed by 25% while above 75% health. Cast Lesser Signet of Vampirism on your foe when you inflict bleeding on them that matches or exceeds the threshold (4. 16s ICD).

Blood Bond: Granting allies Regeneration now also grants them Might and Fury.

 

Minor Master: 

Vampiric: Siphon health whenever you hit a foe. Minions siphon health and transfer it to you.

 

Major Masters:

Life from Death: Using a Shroud/Shade skill now heals allies around you for a small amount. Regeneration Heals for more.

Vampiric Presence: Vampiric is now shared to allies, and drastically increases in effect for you.

Ritual Ground: Wells gain reduced recharge time. They now grant Protection to allies in their area when cast.

 

Minor Grandmaster: 

Last Rites: As long as you are not downed, allies near you do not bleed out if they are downed. Gain increased Healing Power and Concentration.

 

Major Grandmasters: 

Transfusion: Shroud skill 4 heals and partially revives nearby allies. Up to five nearby downed allies are teleported to you upon using shroud skill 4.

Unholy Martyr: Entering shroud transfers conditions from allies to you. Exiting shroud consumes conditions currently on you and converts them to life force.

Blood Bank: While in combat, gain a small amount of Barrier at the set interval. Granting allies Barrier also grants them Alacrity. 

 

TL;DR:

In short, the top line is dedicated to Revival and Healing. The mid line remains a more competitive play oriented Utility and Sustain line. The bottom line is dedicated to Boon Support.

 

I'd appreciate any thought out feedback.

Edited October 28, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Radina.6057]

Your Alacrity Reaper would be so dead.

You gotta compete with "can provide anything while afk" HAM, "Rebound" Tempest, or "wanna get something pushed?" Druid. All of them provide all the relevant boons, plus enough healing, plus stab/stunbreak/aegis, plus unique utility.

 

Reaper wouldn't be able to provide stunbreaks, Aegis, or stab in his group. The way you set it up you are not even able to play "pick me up" while providing boons.

 

I don't see it. You wont be able to compete with damage alac Specter either.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Radina.6057

[Asum.4960]

2 hours ago, Radina.6057 said:

Your Alacrity Reaper would be so dead.

You gotta compete with "can provide anything while afk" HAM, "Rebound" Tempest, or "wanna get something pushed?" Druid. All of them provide all the relevant boons, plus enough healing, plus stab/stunbreak/aegis, plus unique utility.

 

Reaper wouldn't be able to provide stunbreaks, Aegis, or stab in his group. The way you set it up you are not even able to play "pick me up" while providing boons.

 

I don't see it. You wont be able to compete with damage alac Specter either.

These changes aren't aimed at making Alacrity Reaper a thing, which doesn't have Barrier share, at all - but Alac Scourge. Nor is it aimed at the heal Alac slot - which I'm not convinced would be a good idea coupled with Transfusion. Keeping Heal Scourge as a separate incredibly powerful carry tool at the expense of another support slot, in addition to the primary boon providers, seems a safer bet to me.

Condi (Ritualist/Viper) Alac Scourge imo would be quite viable with these changes though, especially with some Well improvements, or expanding on my suggestion for the "Ritual Ground" Well Trait of instead adding a unique boon to each Well, which could include Aegis for Well of Darkness and Stability for Well of Power, for example.

 

Regardless of that though, I do think this would make it a more compelling and functional line generally, without being too much of a departure/work.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Dadnir.5038]

By design necromancer isn't a "boon sharing profession" and, even if it was, I believe core would focus on either protection. Resistance or resolution feel closer thematically but historically it's protection that the necromancer have been providing the most through spectral wall/ring and Wells via vampiric rituals.

That said:

The pros:

- You wisely restrict sharing alacrity to scourge.

- Increased potency to regeneration is nice.

- Providing fury and might when giving regeneration would be nice as well.

The cons:

- Healing on using a shroud/shade skill is a tricky idea. It can easily be OP or trash based on what you imply behind what you wrote.

- I feel like you're killing vampiric presence with the suggested change.

- Granting allies alacrity when giving them barrier on Blood bank is a no. It's like giving perma alacrity to any necromancer build using blood magic. (in short it's the same issue that scourge had with the old abrasive grit that granted might and cleansed condition whenever the scourge gave barrier.

- Fewer weapon traits...

- The devs would probably nerf wells base CD if they where to bring back a well trait that reduce wells CD (I mean, realistically, 16s CD wells isn't going to ever happen). Which mean that what you do here would likely hurt a lot the glassiers necromancer's builds. (expect reapers builds to drop in damage output even more if what you suggest happen as it would probably be the most impacted by a change on wells)

 

Objectively, it's not that the ideas aren't good, but the impact that those ideas would have would likely be unbearable. WvW necromancer would shine even more in zergs (when it doesn't need it, really), Scourge would come back stronger than ever in sPvP where people have yet to heal from the scourge's trauma and reaper would take another step down in PvE damage output when the necromancer's community is still wailing on the recent damage output loss. (Based on what you mean for life from death Harbinger would potentially have the opportunity to make people rage yet again due to an heavy increase of survivability). All in all, I foresee complains everywhere.

[Asum.4960]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

By design necromancer isn't a "boon sharing profession".

I don't think that holds much value, profession design has to adapt to the game Anet actually made, and what it shifted to become over time. By core design, Necromancer is a Tanky Boon Corruption Profession - which is something that never had a place as dedicated role in PvE. 

I'm not a fan of the sentiment over the years that Necromancer can't ever have damage, mobility, boons, utility, etc. (and everything it does get needs some "thematic" punishing drawback that nothing else has to deal with) "because that's it's design". Plus after the Torment changes gave Necromancer damage, and Harbinger is a thing now too, that mold of having to be bad "because" has already been broken anyway.

 

Quote

The cons:

- Healing on using a shroud/shade skill is a tricky idea. It can easily be OP or trash based on what you imply behind what you wrote.

(Based on what you mean for life from death Harbinger would potentially have the opportunity to make people rage yet again due to an heavy increase of survivability).

Or a balanced inbetween. The idea with this was to only be worthwhile with heavy Healing Power investment, as I wrote through very low base healing but decent scaling, which would render the Trait fairly ineffective in PvP (where it could be further split still) due to the Amulet selection. It also competes with Vampiric Presence for personal sustain - which in essence is healing on any skill use, in and out of Shroud, with increased healing in Shroud.

The idea for the Trait is meant to really only shine on something like a Heal Scourge (or a future Spec capable of dedicated support) in group content.

 

Quote

- I feel like you're killing vampiric presence with the suggested change.

Quite the opposite, I think it and Vampiric deserve a buff in PvE especially. As it stands, Blood Magic is a actually a pretty terrible line to pick for sustain/survivability, while at the same time being the lowest damage line. All it has going for it currently in PvE is group revival.

Increasing the lines damage and sustain slightly through better personal Life Leech (as well as access to Might generation through the reworked Blood Bond) could actually make it a fairly compelling choice for solo play, while the reworked Life from Death takes over as slight group healing addition for Heal Scourge.

 

Quote

- Granting allies alacrity when giving them barrier on Blood bank is a no. It's like giving perma alacrity to any necromancer build using blood magic. (in short it's the same issue that scourge had with the old abrasive grit that granted might and cleansed condition whenever the scourge gave barrier.

In my proposed idea I changed Blood Bank to instead operate on an interval, so that depends on the ICD for the Barrier application, as well as the base Alacrity duration and whatever feels balanced there. 

That said, I honestly don't even feel like high uptime self-Alacrity via BM would be an issue though. As is it's a genuinely bad solo play line far behind all other options that many players fall into as genuine trap, just because by theme it seems like it should be a good line for sustain and support.

Very slightly better sustain and damage through better Vampiric traits, as well as good to (with slight investment) perma self Alacrity at least would give Blood Magic something going for it, akin to perma Protection (and condi cleanse) in Death Magic being that lines sole saving grace.

 

Quote

- Fewer weapon traits...

It's not that I dislike weapon Traits, but let's be frank here, both of these weapons and their Traits are terrible - and weapon Skill CDR Traits are non-Traits anyway. Dagger and Warhorn could just have the lower CD's baseline, still be bad, and these Traits can instead be better used to have an actual viable function. 

30 second CD baseline for Warhorn for example and what those skill do, and having to take a bad Weapon Trait in an extremely niche line to make them slightly less bad, is a poor joke.

 

Quote

- The devs would probably nerf wells base CD if they where to bring back a well trait that reduce wells CD (I mean, realistically, 16s CD wells isn't going to ever happen). Which mean that what you do here would likely hurt a lot the glassiers necromancer's builds. (expect reapers builds to drop in damage output even more if what you suggest happen as it would probably be the most impacted by a change on wells)

The only builds (that I'm aware of) that are currently running Wells aren't running Blood Magic. Especially Power Reaper isn't ever going to, so I don't see a need to nerf their CD's again.

And speaking realistically, 16 second CD Wells under Alacrity is exactly where Scrapper Wells are at basline too (without having to take a support line and CDR Trait), and those can give Superspeed and Quickness Traited. 

So that's a fabricated/self-imposed issue.

If nerfing their CD's just because there is a CDR Trait again would cause those skills and the specs that utilize them to be needlessly worse.. then don't nerf them?

 

That said, I still like the idea of the Trait even without the CDR, especially if going with the idea of the Trait adding a unique boon per Well, like Suffering granting Might, Power Stability, Darkness Aegis, Blood Regeneration and Corruption Protection, for example.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Nash.2681]

Well, we have quickness on Harbinger now, which would allow for equipping bloodmagic and thus providing both vital boons at once. Conclusion: not gonna happen.

[Asum.4960]

22 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

Well, we have quickness on Harbinger now, which would allow for equipping bloodmagic and thus providing both vital boons at once. Conclusion: not gonna happen.

Did you actually read the post? I specifically set it up in such a way, and clarified multiple times, that Harbinger (or Reaper, or Core, or future Elite Specs without Barrier share) wouldn't be able to do Alacrity share with this. 

 

Without Scourges AoE Barriers, this Blood Bank rework would be self Alac only. 

That way Blood Magic becomes a more attractive Traitline for solo and casual play, and for Scourge exclusively opens up an Alacrity Share Hybrid build.

[Shaogin.2679]

I just don't really see the point in this to be honest. Improvements could be made to Blood Magic without needing to add Alacrity, and adding Alacrity in this way only creates another DPS Boon spec which we already have with Harbinger and does nothing to address the pathetic state of Heal Scourge. Also, I think you are seriously putting too much value into Transfusion. Sure, Transfusion is great for revives, but having actual healers that provide actual support can keep players from going down in the first place. Not to mention pretty much every other support spec also has great tools for reviving, so the second you start playing with people that are even slightly competent in the given content, Heal Scourge becomes a hindrance to the group. Worst case scenario you would bring a Condi Scourge with Blood Magic. Then of course considering the DPS loss of taking Blood Magic on a Condi Scourge, the chance that a Condi Alac Scourge would be a decent choice over literally any other DPS Alac is pretty slim. So all in all, this change would likely achieve nothing but allow some open world Cele build to have perma Alac.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Shaogin.2679

[Nash.2681]

1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

Did you actually read the post? I specifically set it up in such a way, and clarified multiple times, that Harbinger (or Reaper, or Core, or future Elite Specs without Barrier share) wouldn't be able to do Alacrity share with this. 

 

Without Scourges AoE Barriers, this Blood Bank rework would be self Alac only. 

That way Blood Magic becomes a more attractive Traitline for solo and casual play, and for Scourge exclusively opens up an Alacrity Share Hybrid build.

Probably missed that in the wall of text, indeed.

However, making an entire trait line unusable when equipping an E-Spec seems highly unrealistic in the current system and would need an complete overhaul of the trait system. And self-alac only.... just... why? Necros already is solo-friendly as kitten, if anything it needs to add more value for groups.

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

I just don't really see the point in this to be honest. Improvements could be made to Blood Magic without needing to add Alacrity, and adding Alacrity in this way only creates another DPS Boon spec which we already have with Harbinger and does nothing to address the pathetic state of Heal Scourge. Also, I think you are seriously putting too much value into Transfusion. Sure, Transfusion is great for revives, but having actual healers that provide actual support can keep players from going down in the first place. Not to mention pretty much every other support spec also has great tools for reviving, so the second you start playing with people that are even slightly competent in the given content, Heal Scourge becomes a hindrance to the group. Worst case scenario you would bring a Condi Scourge with Blood Magic. Then of course considering the DPS loss of taking Blood Magic on a Condi Scourge, the chance that a Condi Alac Scourge would be a decent choice over literally any other DPS Alac is pretty slim. So all in all, this change would likely achieve nothing but allow some open world Cele build to have perma Alac.

Of course BM could be improved in other ways, it's just one of the ideas here.

Maybe I'm overvaluing it, maybe not. I do think people broadly underestimate Heal Scourge drastically in just how much it carries, and are just too proud to use it when it could benefit so many (especially PuG and beginner) groups. 

Having it be a meta Alac support that's always good to have in your, even highly proficient, groups, plus that carrying capacity it has I honestly think isn't a good idea, and not something Anet would allow to be in the game (imo rightfully so). I'm pretty convinced adding Alac to HSC as is would lead to Transfusion being nerfed.

That said, even HSC finds some improvements here via more Boon Support and Healing, and could give up just Transfusion for an Alacrity Heal build as well - especially with the alternative idea for the Ritual Ground Well Trait and providing some Stability and or Aegis, in addition to Might and Fury from Blood Bond and the Life From Death improved healing.

 

Ritualist/Viper Curses+BM Alac Scourge with these reworks should be a ~30k DPS (with high uptime) support hybrid which still provides pretty good cleanse and some Barrier (plus ress with Signet of Undeath, and with these Traits either more ress potential via Ritual of Life, Might and Fury with Blood Bond, as well as potentially Prot or even Aegis/Stab through Wells via the suggested Ritual Ground Trait), I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be competitive for the Alac hybrid slot. 

 

1 hour ago, Nash.2681 said:

Probably missed that in the wall of text, indeed.

However, making an entire trait line unusable when equipping an E-Spec seems highly unrealistic in the current system and would need an complete overhaul of the trait system. And self-alac only.... just... why? Necros already is solo-friendly as kitten, if anything it needs to add more value for groups.

What do you mean with making an entire Trait line unusable when equipping an Elite spec? 

The Trait line would be perfectly useable (and improved from what it is now) on all Specs, just that sharing Alac via granting Allies Barriers would especially synergise with Scourge. 

 

I don't think the other Traitlines already being good (for solo play) is a valid argument for this one not being so. What is bad about simply more variety and options? 

This also adds plenty more value for groups with improved group healing and boon support, that's the main focus of these changes.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Dib.4612]

Transfusion has become such an icon for support necro, if you want to give the class more appeal with alacrity, you'd have to make it a Master trait.  

More importantly, the problem with alacrity on barrier in blood would be that only Scourge gives barrier. I think you'd have to make this a Scourge trait, or design the alacrity around lifestealing.  

Said it in another post, but I think they should remove all passive lifesteal from the game and give necro skills with which they heal allies as they steal life. A cool thing would be blood tethers called 'Blood Bond' that heal allies as you steal life. 

You could then make a trait called 'Pure Blood', which would grant players alacrity as health is being transferred to them. 

 

[Shaogin.2679]

On 11/3/2022 at 11:37 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Maybe I'm overvaluing it, maybe not. I do think people broadly underestimate Heal Scourge drastically in just how much it carries, and are just too proud to use it when it could benefit so many (especially PuG and beginner) groups. 

Having it be a meta Alac support that's always good to have in your, even highly proficient, groups, plus that carrying capacity it has I honestly think isn't a good idea, and not something Anet would allow to be in the game (imo rightfully so). I'm pretty convinced adding Alac to HSC as is would lead to Transfusion being nerfed.

That said, even HSC finds some improvements here via more Boon Support and Healing, and could give up just Transfusion for an Alacrity Heal build as well - especially with the alternative idea for the Ritual Ground Well Trait and providing some Stability and or Aegis, in addition to Might and Fury from Blood Bond and the Life From Death improved healing.

Really don't think it has anything to do with being too proud. When your squad actually knows the fight and isn't going down every 2 seconds, the Heal Scourge is simply no longer needed at all. Other supports become vastly more valuable due to the utility they bring that makes the fight easier. The main utility of the Heal Scourge is the constant pulsing revive. Once you either remove that or no longer require it, Heal Scourge is simply bad, even with these proposed BM changes. In no way whatsoever would Heal Scourge having Transfusion and Alacrity be OP. 

On 11/3/2022 at 11:37 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Ritualist/Viper Curses+BM Alac Scourge with these reworks should be a ~30k DPS (with high uptime) support hybrid which still provides pretty good cleanse and some Barrier (plus ress with Signet of Undeath, and with these Traits either more ress potential via Ritual of Life, Might and Fury with Blood Bond, as well as potentially Prot or even Aegis/Stab through Wells via the suggested Ritual Ground Trait), I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be competitive for the Alac hybrid slot. 

Again, that pulsing res is just meh in experienced groups. Would also like to point out that base values for Scourge barriers have been gutted pretty bad in order to nerf DPS Scourges back in their prime. Without healing power, Scourge barriers are pretty pathetic. That leaves you with a bit of cleansing and a few boons, which will pale in comparison to a DPS Alac Tempest or DPS Alac Mechanist. As for the 30k DPS, I am doubtful but who knows. However, even if it all works out, in the end all you get is another DPS boon spec, which the Necromancer already has with the far superior Harbinger. 

So then we're just left with the question why. Why bother putting Alacrity into Blood Magic just for Scourge to be the only one able to apply it to allies? It isn't like Necro is suffering in open world and could really use some self applied Alacrity. Not to mention this also introduces unnecessary complications with designing any Necro elite spec in the future that uses barrier. Just saying, I'm not against making changes such as the other ones suggested to Blood Magic, but putting Alacrity into Blood Magic makes no sense at all.