SB Double Daggers Feels Pretty Terrible :c

[Bastrii.3047]

Hey all. I think this is my... second post? I'm chatting here today because while I LOVE the idea of Soulbeast, a hybrid damage dealer with lots of potential - I just... have so many problems with the class, stemming from its class weapons (and a few others). I'll just go off of the list here.

Dagger 1: The current set up for this skill is pretty terrible. It has... okay, power scaling, I guess - for a dagger. In PvE, with tons of might, I can push like... 2k crits on the first swipe, with the final blow hitting like, 5k - as a hybrid of course. But it's still far less damage than Greatsword 1, does NOT recharge stamina, and has less cleave. It's all offense, but the offense is *worse* than other weapons that require less planning.

Dagger 2: I'm... mostly fine with this. To be frank, it's *fine*. It's your damage ability. It's *acceptable*, I guess.

Dagger 3: This is abysmal. For one, it's pure power - okay, fine. I could deal with that - it's a hybrid weapon after all. For two, the range is HORRIBLE. 400 units is just... not enough for PvP at all (and I'd argue just in *general*), especially when most classes have found mobility buffs in their newest elite specs. On top of that, it's another *you have to hit to gain the main effect* skill. This is terrible design. Imagine getting hit with a blind, and then two seconds later - getting hit with a snare. Not only are you now underperforming compared to a greatsword, but you don't have quickness to at least make up for it a *tiny* bit.

Dagger 4: I could be okay with this if it had a little more range, and a little less baseline cooldown. And just *make the poison baseline*. Why do we have to jump through hoops, raise the skill ceiling even higher on a class with already stupidly high skill ceiling, just for a few extra poison stacks.

Dagger 5: Possibly the worst skill in all of the Ranger's Toolkit, right behind Longbow 3. Throw your knife at them. This isn't a throwing axe. It's a dagger. With an evade on 4, a natural and intelligent design would be a shadowstep on 5. It makes no sense that baseline Guardians have a shadowstep on a SWORD, but Rangers can't have it on an offhand dagger. Nor any other defensive option. In fact, Rangers only have a few good defensive options on weapons - that being block on GS, and... flailing your axe around, knocking back projectiles and doing the highest burst power damage in their entire kit on one dumb button. *Sigh.*

 

I'm not asking to make Rangers mini bunkers like Necros, basically all Guardians, Vindicators running Salvation, Untamed spamming their anti-fun barrier/gaining barrier constantly, Elementalists half the time, Mesmers when played right (extremely annoying), Mecha Engis (again, a lot of barrier here)... Just please give us something to make up for how poor a lot of our skills are compared to others.

 

Spoiler

My suggestions are just... please, throw us a bone. They're not even that bad, just a little restructuring.

 

Groundwork Gouge: Remove the Vulnerability. Instead give 2 seconds of bleed and 2 seconds of poison on first hit.

Leading Swipe: *Pass.* This is fine.

Serpent Swipe: *Pass.* This is also fine.

Deadly Delivery: Make it grant 3 stacks of vulnerability as a reward for hitting the final blow of your combo.

-

Double Arc: This is again, mostly fine. If anything, a little higher power scaling would be nice, or higher base damage. Either works. Or another neat buff with be 2 seconds of quickness as well, so you can follow it up with a full combo from your daggers or (maybe two).

-

Instinctive Engage needs a 500-600 unit range. I'm sorry. It just does. It's not able to function well enough right now with its short range. And again, drop the base cooldown a little, at least in PvE. 10 seconds would be great, as going from mob to mob is rather annoying when you can't keep quickness up. Maybe 12 seconds baseline for PvP would be nice, too. And make the quickness apply, no matter what - along with a bleed if you do hit. Missing the ability is pain enough, as now you're out of position AND you don't have the boon you wanted. Like, if you weigh double dagger against greatsword, greatsword wins in every single department. Dagger 3 is in desperate need of help.

-

Stalker's Strike should just apply the full poison effect. The skill ceiling should not be this high on Ranger. I already complained about it enough, but just... lower the cooldown a bit. 12 seconds is fine for a short evade in PvP. In PvE, it SHOULD be like... 9 seconds, with more poison application on top to *almost* compare to other weapons in PvE. And increase the range to 360 or so.

-

Crippling Talon is one of the worst skills in the game. Not THE worst, but one of the worst. One: It's a projectile with a half second cast time and... it's *literally* slow, as in, slow moving. It's so slow, in fact, that enemies can easily dodge it on reaction. Two: Why are you throwing a knife at all? The bleeding is okay, it really is. But the two uses, fifteen second recharge... you never get really good use out of it, and it's a massive DPS loss to throw a dagger in 9/10 cases. Remove this skill entirely. Replace it with a Shadowstep with like, a 600 unit range. You shadow step, and your next attack becomes something like... Predator's Cunning, where you lunge 400 units and stab your target, inflicting heavy bleeding (enough to make the enemy WANT to dodge the attack)/decent power damage.

-

That's just in daggers. I have other qualms, too.

Longbow 3: Horrible. If you miss, you don't gain ANY of the effects. It should be a distraction arrow the applies blindness to the target if it hits, and grants stealth (3s) to the Ranger always. Pet swiftness is fine, too.

Longbow 5: Let us cast this on the move please.

Flanking! Rangers are NOT great kiters anymore, not without excessive traps and greatsword. Why do we need a flanking bonus on Shortbow? Just buff the shortbow and remove the flanking attribute. The class has a very high skill ceiling as it is, dropping it a little would do wonders for the new players.

Sharpened Edges/Hidden Barbs... Horrible that these are two MAJOR choices in Skirmishing. This should be *one* major skill at *worst*. In reality, you should replace Hunter's Tactics with these two combined. I get that you don't want shared skills, but when you're nerfing an ability and splitting it in two, you're only hurting the class just so it can be *slightly* different.

Search and Rescue... compare this to Necro's Transfusion. With Transfusion, you have 3 and 1/2 seconds to get in range, and immediately teleport your target directly beneath you with a small and quick heal. With Search and Rescue, you have *one chance* to HOPE you snag your ally at the edge of your range, and if you miss it - you have to wait 60 seconds to try again. What a horrible idea. Give it a 3 second cast time or *something*, and grant protection/resolution to you and the ally you're picking up. Or just give it a larger range to compensate, wiggle room. Something. Also, the search and rescue trait needs to NOT proc if your pet is already healing the target.

Guard: I have literally never seen anyone use this. I think it's because it's a "suicide pet" button. Speaking of pets...

Pets should gain a small portion of the Ranger's stats and vice versa, at the very least in PvE. If you have a power pet, you should gain 'Beastial Inspiration: Ferocious", and gain a small buff of like, 50 power, and 50 ferocity. Soulbeasts would gain a far stronger variant when they merge, what they have now basically. Your pet inherits 25% of your stats when within range (around 600 should be the limit for PvP, as Rangers tend to keep more distance from their target). Pets should feel strong and impactful. Right now, you're limited to a few choices due to how terrible 80% of the pet choices all.

 

And finally, this one is just for me: I WANT A STAG PET! Not the Rock Gazzelle. GIMME A DEAR DEER! Something to go with the Deer Commander title. A doe and a stag would be great. Doe could be supportive, stag could be ferocious. DON'T MAKE THEM WEIRD ABOMINATIONS! Thanks. ❤️

/Rant over. Sorry if it's long. Thank you for sticking it out. Sorry if you disagree... I'm going to bed now. I'll check with you all in the morning.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Bastrii.3047 said:

Hey all. I think this is my... second post? I'm chatting here today because while I LOVE the idea of Soulbeast, a hybrid damage dealer with lots of potential - I just... have so many problems with the class, stemming from its class weapons (and a few others). I'll just go off of the list here.

Dagger 1: The current set up for this skill is pretty terrible. It has... okay, power scaling, I guess - for a dagger. In PvE, with tons of might, I can push like... 2k crits on the first swipe, with the final blow hitting like, 5k - as a hybrid of course. But it's still far less damage than Greatsword 1, does NOT recharge stamina, and has less cleave. It's all offense, but the offense is *worse* than other weapons that require less planning.

Dagger 2: I'm... mostly fine with this. To be frank, it's *fine*. It's your damage ability. It's *acceptable*, I guess.

Dagger 3: This is abysmal. For one, it's pure power - okay, fine. I could deal with that - it's a hybrid weapon after all. For two, the range is HORRIBLE. 400 units is just... not enough for PvP at all (and I'd argue just in *general*), especially when most classes have found mobility buffs in their newest elite specs. On top of that, it's another *you have to hit to gain the main effect* skill. This is terrible design. Imagine getting hit with a blind, and then two seconds later - getting hit with a snare. Not only are you now underperforming compared to a greatsword, but you don't have quickness to at least make up for it a *tiny* bit.

Dagger 4: I could be okay with this if it had a little more range, and a little less baseline cooldown. And just *make the poison baseline*. Why do we have to jump through hoops, raise the skill ceiling even higher on a class with already stupidly high skill ceiling, just for a few extra poison stacks.

Dagger 5: Possibly the worst skill in all of the Ranger's Toolkit, right behind Longbow 3. Throw your knife at them. This isn't a throwing axe. It's a dagger. With an evade on 4, a natural and intelligent design would be a shadowstep on 5. It makes no sense that baseline Guardians have a shadowstep on a SWORD, but Rangers can't have it on an offhand dagger. Nor any other defensive option. In fact, Rangers only have a few good defensive options on weapons - that being block on GS, and... flailing your axe around, knocking back projectiles and doing the highest burst power damage in their entire kit on one dumb button. *Sigh.*

 

I'm not asking to make Rangers mini bunkers like Necros, basically all Guardians, Vindicators running Salvation, Untamed spamming their anti-fun barrier/gaining barrier constantly, Elementalists half the time, Mesmers when played right (extremely annoying), Mecha Engis (again, a lot of barrier here)... Just please give us something to make up for how poor a lot of our skills are compared to others.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

My suggestions are just... please, throw us a bone. They're not even that bad, just a little restructuring.

 

Groundwork Gouge: Remove the Vulnerability. Instead give 2 seconds of bleed and 2 seconds of poison on first hit.

Leading Swipe: *Pass.* This is fine.

Serpent Swipe: *Pass.* This is also fine.

Deadly Delivery: Make it grant 3 stacks of vulnerability as a reward for hitting the final blow of your combo.

-

Double Arc: This is again, mostly fine. If anything, a little higher power scaling would be nice, or higher base damage. Either works. Or another neat buff with be 2 seconds of quickness as well, so you can follow it up with a full combo from your daggers or (maybe two).

-

Instinctive Engage needs a 500-600 unit range. I'm sorry. It just does. It's not able to function well enough right now with its short range. And again, drop the base cooldown a little, at least in PvE. 10 seconds would be great, as going from mob to mob is rather annoying when you can't keep quickness up. Maybe 12 seconds baseline for PvP would be nice, too. And make the quickness apply, no matter what - along with a bleed if you do hit. Missing the ability is pain enough, as now you're out of position AND you don't have the boon you wanted. Like, if you weigh double dagger against greatsword, greatsword wins in every single department. Dagger 3 is in desperate need of help.

-

Stalker's Strike should just apply the full poison effect. The skill ceiling should not be this high on Ranger. I already complained about it enough, but just... lower the cooldown a bit. 12 seconds is fine for a short evade in PvP. In PvE, it SHOULD be like... 9 seconds, with more poison application on top to *almost* compare to other weapons in PvE. And increase the range to 360 or so.

-

Crippling Talon is one of the worst skills in the game. Not THE worst, but one of the worst. One: It's a projectile with a half second cast time and... it's *literally* slow, as in, slow moving. It's so slow, in fact, that enemies can easily dodge it on reaction. Two: Why are you throwing a knife at all? The bleeding is okay, it really is. But the two uses, fifteen second recharge... you never get really good use out of it, and it's a massive DPS loss to throw a dagger in 9/10 cases. Remove this skill entirely. Replace it with a Shadowstep with like, a 600 unit range. You shadow step, and your next attack becomes something like... Predator's Cunning, where you lunge 400 units and stab your target, inflicting heavy bleeding (enough to make the enemy WANT to dodge the attack)/decent power damage.

-

That's just in daggers. I have other qualms, too.

Longbow 3: Horrible. If you miss, you don't gain ANY of the effects. It should be a distraction arrow the applies blindness to the target if it hits, and grants stealth (3s) to the Ranger always. Pet swiftness is fine, too.

Longbow 5: Let us cast this on the move please.

Flanking! Rangers are NOT great kiters anymore, not without excessive traps and greatsword. Why do we need a flanking bonus on Shortbow? Just buff the shortbow and remove the flanking attribute. The class has a very high skill ceiling as it is, dropping it a little would do wonders for the new players.

Sharpened Edges/Hidden Barbs... Horrible that these are two MAJOR choices in Skirmishing. This should be *one* major skill at *worst*. In reality, you should replace Hunter's Tactics with these two combined. I get that you don't want shared skills, but when you're nerfing an ability and splitting it in two, you're only hurting the class just so it can be *slightly* different.

Search and Rescue... compare this to Necro's Transfusion. With Transfusion, you have 3 and 1/2 seconds to get in range, and immediately teleport your target directly beneath you with a small and quick heal. With Search and Rescue, you have *one chance* to HOPE you snag your ally at the edge of your range, and if you miss it - you have to wait 60 seconds to try again. What a horrible idea. Give it a 3 second cast time or *something*, and grant protection/resolution to you and the ally you're picking up. Or just give it a larger range to compensate, wiggle room. Something. Also, the search and rescue trait needs to NOT proc if your pet is already healing the target.

Guard: I have literally never seen anyone use this. I think it's because it's a "suicide pet" button. Speaking of pets...

Pets should gain a small portion of the Ranger's stats and vice versa, at the very least in PvE. If you have a power pet, you should gain 'Beastial Inspiration: Ferocious", and gain a small buff of like, 50 power, and 50 ferocity. Soulbeasts would gain a far stronger variant when they merge, what they have now basically. Your pet inherits 25% of your stats when within range (around 600 should be the limit for PvP, as Rangers tend to keep more distance from their target). Pets should feel strong and impactful. Right now, you're limited to a few choices due to how terrible 80% of the pet choices all.

 

And finally, this one is just for me: I WANT A STAG PET! Not the Rock Gazzelle. GIMME A DEAR DEER! Something to go with the Deer Commander title. A doe and a stag would be great. Doe could be supportive, stag could be ferocious. DON'T MAKE THEM WEIRD ABOMINATIONS! Thanks. ❤️

/Rant over. Sorry if it's long. Thank you for sticking it out. Sorry if you disagree... I'm going to bed now. I'll check with you all in the morning.

You kind of mix up PvE and PvP stuff but really PvP does not use dagger really at all, maybe you could find a few builds that use off-hand dagger, but it is still rare.

Dagger 1
I'm fairly certain it has some of the highest auto attack DPS for Ranger. You do have to use Vipers gear but half of all Soulbeast builds do.

Dagger 2
A carbon copy of Splitblade from Axe 2 but is arguably better for Condition damage due to the trait synergy.

Dagger 3
Pretty useless in a group but can help when boons are sparce with Essence of Speed trait.

Dagger 4-5
Most people use Warhorn for PvP or Axe off-hand for PvE. The main reason use off-hand Dagger is for poison stacks.

 

The real power of Dagger (main-hand) is the trait synergy with Axe.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Beddo.1907]

Time to use my favourite self quote:

"Main hand dagger feels like using a brick on a rope." 

I feels so clunky it hurts. The dps is pretty much above average with viper gear, but cleave is small, all skills are mostly damage and the mobility is awful due to the range and animation being barely better than just walking.

[Bastrii.3047]

5 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Time to use my favourite self quote:

"Main hand dagger feels like using a brick on a rope." 

I feels so clunky it hurts. The dps is pretty much above average with viper gear, but cleave is small, all skills are mostly damage and the mobility is awful due to the range and animation being barely better than just walking.

I just want options that aren't Axe Mainhand, Torch Offhand/Greatsword or Sword/Dagger. That's the core problem. The entire toolkit is VERY bland. You have... Damage, damage, very short range engage with a small buff (nearly impossible to get value from in PvP), one evade on offhand dagger (sword can get three, back to back, to keep pressure while avoiding damage... but dagger gets none, which is obviously just... dumb), and a projectile that can be outranged, easily dodged, blocked by the excessive anti-projectile barriers in PvP, reflected, or most importantly - cleansed and ignored.

What's worse is that there are far better options for a main hand on pretty much every other core class, and its own core weapons. Main hand axe: It has a 900 unit range, an AoE cleave that can also function as a 5 stack bleed burst up close, it grants might on basic attack and hits two targets, it has a STRONG "soft" CC from Winter's Bite - Daggers can't compare. Their effective range is basically 130, as instinctive engage can: miss, go right through the target, hit the target but the target moved making it completely worthless, or best of all - absolutely whiff due to just how short the range is.

Basically every core main hand weapon in the game has a built in damage mitigation included, excluding a few options on warrior (as they have sheer variety available to them) and the main hand dagger on thief. I looked through everything, and those were the two classes that stood out. Warrior can make up for it by being overwhelmingly tanky, and Thief is a Thief - and does Thief things, so it doesn't matter. But Ranger? Ranger has three paths: Greatsword 4, use every scrap of movement you have and hope the enemy doesn't have enough mobility to keep up, or be an Untamed.

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Bastrii.3047 said:

I just want options that aren't Axe Mainhand, Torch Offhand/Greatsword or Sword/Dagger. That's the core problem. The entire toolkit is VERY bland. You have... Damage, damage, very short range engage with a small buff (nearly impossible to get value from in PvP), one evade on offhand dagger (sword can get three, back to back, to keep pressure while avoiding damage... but dagger gets none, which is obviously just... dumb), and a projectile that can be outranged, easily dodged, blocked by the excessive anti-projectile barriers in PvP, reflected, or most importantly - cleansed and ignored.

What's worse is that there are far better options for a main hand on pretty much every other core class, and its own core weapons. Main hand axe: It has a 900 unit range, an AoE cleave that can also function as a 5 stack bleed burst up close, it grants might on basic attack and hits two targets, it has a STRONG "soft" CC from Winter's Bite - Daggers can't compare. Their effective range is basically 130, as instinctive engage can: miss, go right through the target, hit the target but the target moved making it completely worthless, or best of all - absolutely whiff due to just how short the range is.

Basically every core main hand weapon in the game has a built in damage mitigation included, excluding a few options on warrior (as they have sheer variety available to them) and the main hand dagger on thief. I looked through everything, and those were the two classes that stood out. Warrior can make up for it by being overwhelmingly tanky, and Thief is a Thief - and does Thief things, so it doesn't matter. But Ranger? Ranger has three paths: Greatsword 4, use every scrap of movement you have and hope the enemy doesn't have enough mobility to keep up, or be an Untamed.

TL;DR
Ranger weapons have no team support and utility except for Horn and staff.

[Bastrii.3047]

10 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

TL;DR
Ranger weapons have no team support and utility except for Horn and staff.

Technically not 100% true. Axe main and offhand can both help a team. Axe 3 is an AoE freeze that applies bleed. In a team fight, throwing axe 3 on the node helps everyone on your team, as all enemies are hit with a strong slow. Additionally, Axe 4 can drag enemies off of a point to help decap, and Axe 5 can provide projectile reflect.

All of these just prove that Axes are the only good weapons on Ranger. Sword offers no utility to the team, but can help the ranger survive. Torch offers utility to the team, as Bonfire on a node can force the enemy to reposition, cleanse, or burn to death - especially when paired with traps. Daggers offer basically nothing at all except damage.

When I play axe/torch/traps, I'm an actual threat and people will run from me after they get lit up and burn a few times. Double dagger/traps and people laugh, as I'm not a threat to them. One cleanse and my pressure is gone.

*Sigh.* I just want the weapon combo to work.

Greatsword would also be the only other weapon that's "good". So good, in fact, that condi builds will take it just for the guard, stun, and movement.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Bastrii.3047
Wanted to add a bit about greatsword.

[Kodama.6453]

2 minutes ago, Bastrii.3047 said:

Technically not 100% true. Axe main and offhand can both help a team. Axe 3 is an AoE freeze that applies bleed. In a team fight, throwing axe 3 on the node helps everyone on your team, as all enemies are hit with a strong slow. Additionally, Axe 4 can drag enemies off of a point to help decap, and Axe 5 can provide projectile reflect.

All of these just prove that Axes are the only good weapons on Ranger. Sword offers no utility to the team, but can help the ranger survive. Torch offers utility to the team, as Bonfire on a node can force the enemy to reposition, cleanse, or burn to death - especially when paired with traps. Daggers offer basically nothing at all except damage.

When I play axe/torch/traps, I'm an actual threat and people will run from me after they get lit up and burn a few times. Double dagger/traps and people laugh, as I'm not a threat to them. One cleanse and my pressure is gone.

*Sigh.* I just want the weapon combo to work.

It really depends how broadly we define utility.

If you consider torch to have utility, because it can force movement/cleanses from the enemy, then sword and dagger should also both count as providing utiility. Because these weapons can apply poison, which reduces all healing the enemy receives by 33%.

Sword can also apply alot of cripple to the enemy through monarch's leap and the auto attack chain.

[Beddo.1907]

9 hours ago, Bastrii.3047 said:

Technically not 100% true. Axe main and offhand can both help a team. Axe 3 is an AoE freeze that applies bleed. In a team fight, throwing axe 3 on the node helps everyone on your team, as all enemies are hit with a strong slow. Additionally, Axe 4 can drag enemies off of a point to help decap, and Axe 5 can provide projectile reflect.

All of these just prove that Axes are the only good weapons on Ranger. Sword offers no utility to the team, but can help the ranger survive. Torch offers utility to the team, as Bonfire on a node can force the enemy to reposition, cleanse, or burn to death - especially when paired with traps. Daggers offer basically nothing at all except damage.

When I play axe/torch/traps, I'm an actual threat and people will run from me after they get lit up and burn a few times. Double dagger/traps and people laugh, as I'm not a threat to them. One cleanse and my pressure is gone.

*Sigh.* I just want the weapon combo to work.

Greatsword would also be the only other weapon that's "good". So good, in fact, that condi builds will take it just for the guard, stun, and movement.

Support and utility as in non offensive effects. (altho we do lack some offensive ones as well like boon hate and ranged aoe)
Healing, barriers, projectile hate, boons. Stuff like that.
Realistically any other class can do what we do with the weapons, but not the other way around. 
Also our range options in large fights are awful.

[Bastrii.3047]

*Moved to a quote.*

Edited December 14, 2022 by Bastrii.3047
Moved to a quote.

[Bastrii.3047]

12 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Support and utility as in non offensive effects. (altho we do lack some offensive ones as well like boon hate and ranged aoe)
Healing, barriers, projectile hate, boons. Stuff like that.
Realistically any other class can do what we do with the weapons, but not the other way around. 
Also our range options in large fights are awful.

What's really dumb is that we don't get projectile pierce baseline on nearly any of our weapons - except axe, which again reinforces it as one of the best weapons on ranger. So not only do all of our projectiles get eaten by like, half of the classes in-game who have barriers, minion necro is basically immune to Longbow, and in any sort of team fight our damage is going to be spread out on several targets unless if we take Marksmanship - which isn't a great skill tree at all, except for burst. And no one wants to take lead the wind, as it's LB only, while you can get a REALLY strong burst on demand from Remorseless on a Greatsword (which is what 95% of GOOD Rangers do - ignore the "best" trait for longbow...)

Dragonhunter Guardian straight up has a better LB1 than Ranger, save for its range (300 units less). It has flat damage - it will hit 373 (before modifiers, like power) no matter how close or how far the target is, as long as they're in range. It ALWAYS pierces. And it inflicts cripple.  Additionally, their baby gate LB5 is STRONG compared to the weak area denial of Ranger LB5. You HAVE to leave the area or dodge, or use stability, or else get gated + massive damage. It has such a short casting time too; literally 1 second. Couple that with their traps and you can melt a team. After playing a few rounds of Dragonhunter, it's just better than Ranger for PvP.

Ranger has too high of a skillcap to play it well, as the pet provides no strong effects on command like any other class abilities. Untamed does change that a little, and makes the pet more useful, and Soulbeast attempts to make the Pet into more buttons, but... overall, the class is in a weak state right now. The pets offer very little pressure. After switching to play other classes, people will actually run from me now. Some will literally hide behind pillars when they see me, a Dragonhunter Guardian, standing on a point - because they know that if they show themselves for more than two frames, they're going to get dragged into a pile of traps and melted. And I can get away with it, because Guardians are super tanky and have some of the most powerful abilities for free. While the skill cap is decently high, I'm just flat out bolstered by having some of the better abilities in-game, making Guardian a no-sweat PvP monster, while Ranger has to try hard and pray just to be "decent".

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 12/13/2022 at 2:27 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

It really depends how broadly we define utility.

If you consider torch to have utility, because it can force movement/cleanses from the enemy, then sword and dagger should also both count as providing utiility. Because these weapons can apply poison, which reduces all healing the enemy receives by 33%.

Sword can also apply alot of cripple to the enemy through monarch's leap and the auto attack chain.

 

If this were 2012, yes.

Anyway, most success I've had with MH Dagger is on a boonbeast / quickness extends boon trait build in WvW.  Just go full glass with it and can do some serious damage with instinctive engage and the autos if you root people.

[Mauti.3520]

MH Dagger has been a waste of a well needed weapon slot Ranger with only 2 mainhands needed and so was the feedback from the very first Beta stress tests of Path of Fire.

[Mell.4873]

Ranger already has some of the strongest weapons in the game, this does include Dagger. 

Dagger just isn't very good at PvP. Mostly because it is a dagger with no ranged abilities and you have to be very close. The only way for it to be good is if it wasn't a dagger.

It also can do okay under certain circumstances like cleaving downed players so it's not all bad.