[PvP] Bladesworn: Time to Shine?

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

45 minutes ago, Zuko.7132 said:

This is my high risk reward build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAcqlJwwYXsWWJOeXexSA-zZILjGTgMLATGAA Discipline is actually worth it imo with axe pistol and the extra flow helps with the new dragonmine. 

I'll have to try this out. I've thought about using discipline a lot, as getting to use axe pistol more consistently would be great, and the ability to cleanse immobilize is huge, too. I just find that giving up Defense is such a big loss... How does it fare against Necro or Chrono or anything else that spams weakness, blind, chill, etc?

[Zuko.7132]

2 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'll have to try this out. I've thought about using discipline a lot, as getting to use axe pistol more consistently would be great, and the ability to cleanse immobilize is huge, too. I just find that giving up Defense is such a big loss... How does it fare against Necro or Chrono or anything else that spams weakness, blind, chill, etc?

It gets the cleanse on swap, which helps, but it struggles a bit. You have to wait it out. You have a lot of dodges though if you are good at avoiding it altogether such as the shroud entry proc. Defense and discipline definitely works though, and is what I would recommend for condi heavy teams. 

[Zuko.7132]

You also don’t have to run a movespeed rune so discipline is a dps boost in that way.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

23 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@CalmTheStorm.2364 to be fair it is not the badest build. The only two things why I still do not like this e-spec when it comes to PvP:

 

1. It is clunky af and even for a warr spec. The fact you root yourself on a place without more defence than Just 1 Aegis for about 2 Seconds+  just to use a burst skill (that does as mutch deeps as any normal core burst Skill) that is also buggy (doesnt Hit sometimes for no real reason) and also is easy dodge able simply doesnt feel right in an Action comebad Style system. And this is Just only one aspect of that weapon .......

 

2. Its Main dmg and sustain comes per core traitline in Comb with its healskill and Axe as weapon

Yeah, there is still plenty of "jank"that holds the spec back.

 

However, I think you'll have more success if you try to use very fast Dragon Slash attacks.  You are much more likely to get interrupted the longer you charge, and the attacks themselves are pretty telegraphed, so it's pretty easy to dodge if you give your opponent the opportunity to register "oh he's charging DT; get ready to dodge." Just use quick, 1-3 charge DS attacks with DS Boost or DS reach for the most part. It still usually hits for 2-3k, interrupts, inflicts weakness and vulnerability, triggers all of your burst related traits, etc. Save your big charge attempts for when you aren't being focused and you have the chance to blindside someone.

[Zuko.7132]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'll have to try this out. I've thought about using discipline a lot, as getting to use axe pistol more consistently would be great, and the ability to cleanse immobilize is huge, too. I just find that giving up Defense is such a big loss... How does it fare against Necro or Chrono or anything else that spams weakness, blind, chill, etc?

Just tried defense discipline. It's solid. I'm running Stimulant, shake it off, stamina sig, and dragon mine with tact reload.

[Dr Meta.3158]

There's only like two warriors that play bladesworn well enough to be a threat generally and it generally comes down to stacking a lot of barrier and outlasted while wearing people down. Everyone else is so bad at it, they may as well just autoattack on a ranger and let the pet play for them.

[Zuko.7132]

10 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

There's only like two warriors that play bladesworn well enough to be a threat generally and it generally comes down to stacking a lot of barrier and outlasted while wearing people down. Everyone else is so bad at it, they may as well just autoattack on a ranger and let the pet play for them.

Do you think it still needs buffs?

[Dr Meta.3158]

21 minutes ago, Zuko.7132 said:

Do you think it still needs buffs?

Bladesworn doesn't need buffs, it needs a complete reinvention. The whole stand in place and wait to slash like an old 80s samurai flick doesn't work out for this game where one of its selling points is fluid combat.

Warrior as a base kindof needs the same. This is the fundamental problem with warrior. Its whole gimmick to actually kill people is CC spam and the reliance on that makes it both unfun to play and unfun to play against. Warriors get frustrated with struggling to catch half the classes in order to CC them in order to actually hit them with their slow/locked in place/reduced speed attacks. Other players get frustrated from spending half the fight standing still after burning through stunbreaks.

Because of this over reliance on CC warriors tend to be bad in team fights because if they had the sustain to survive teamfights and all of that CC, they'd be one of the hallmarks of terrible balance in guild wars 2 pvp history. 

But if you take away the CC and give them sustain and make their attack easier to land, then they're just revenants with the ability to chose their utility skills. So why bother playing them?

Warrior needs something to make their own identity and playstyle that isn't antifun as they are now. Me personally, I think they should change up the adrenaline system. Make it set to the % of their own life missing so if you are at 75% health, you have 25% adrenaline. As you adrenaline increases you get access to more powerful burst skills on your bar and your damage and speed increases. Thus making warrior at a baseline, a bloodthirsty warmonger that gets stronger as it gets hurt. This incentivizes warriors to want to get in the middle of big fights and soak up damage so they can endure pain and wreck house.

The problem with this is that there is antisynergy with supports where having a support dedicated to keeping you alive in pvp/pve keeps your destructive capabilities low and the only supports that would really work would be the ones that give barrier. This of course would be more of a problem in PvE than anywhere else. This would require some creative fixing I don't think arenanet would be able to handle. Probably the obvious one would just be to increase adrenaline by the % of hp lost and then just have adrenaline constantly depleting over time at a fixed rate so you'll be trying to be even more reckless while you have support to really maximize your damage output.

But to answer your question, no warrior doesn't need buffs, it needs a complete remodel from the ground up.

[Zuko.7132]

29 minutes ago, Dr Meta.3158 said:

Bladesworn doesn't need buffs, it needs a complete reinvention. The whole stand in place and wait to slash like an old 80s samurai flick doesn't work out for this game where one of its selling points is fluid combat.

Warrior as a base kindof needs the same. This is the fundamental problem with warrior. Its whole gimmick to actually kill people is CC spam and the reliance on that makes it both unfun to play and unfun to play against. Warriors get frustrated with struggling to catch half the classes in order to CC them in order to actually hit them with their slow/locked in place/reduced speed attacks. Other players get frustrated from spending half the fight standing still after burning through stunbreaks.

Because of this over reliance on CC warriors tend to be bad in team fights because if they had the sustain to survive teamfights and all of that CC, they'd be one of the hallmarks of terrible balance in guild wars 2 pvp history. 

But if you take away the CC and give them sustain and make their attack easier to land, then they're just revenants with the ability to chose their utility skills. So why bother playing them?

Warrior needs something to make their own identity and playstyle that isn't antifun as they are now. Me personally, I think they should change up the adrenaline system. Make it set to the % of their own life missing so if you are at 75% health, you have 25% adrenaline. As you adrenaline increases you get access to more powerful burst skills on your bar and your damage and speed increases. Thus making warrior at a baseline, a bloodthirsty warmonger that gets stronger as it gets hurt. This incentivizes warriors to want to get in the middle of big fights and soak up damage so they can endure pain and wreck house.

The problem with this is that there is antisynergy with supports where having a support dedicated to keeping you alive in pvp/pve keeps your destructive capabilities low and the only supports that would really work would be the ones that give barrier. This of course would be more of a problem in PvE than anywhere else. This would require some creative fixing I don't think arenanet would be able to handle. Probably the obvious one would just be to increase adrenaline by the % of hp lost and then just have adrenaline constantly depleting over time at a fixed rate so you'll be trying to be even more reckless while you have support to really maximize your damage output.

But to answer your question, no warrior doesn't need buffs, it needs a complete remodel from the ground up.

I agree that warrior design did not age well. I would love a rework, but it'll never happen, so I'll just asks for buffs to make my jank playable.

[Aaron.1294]

@Zuko.7132 the thing is bladesworn rn is very close to being the most overpowered bunker thing in the entire game, meaning it already is at the playable level, however as everyone can agree (I hope) it should NEVER ever be even close to be viable in this shape or form. If they don't want to change bladesworn at all and leave it as a healing/barrier bot then aswell they can remove it completely from pvp, because it promotes an unhealthy and frustrating passive rotational gameplay in PVP which, again, SHOULD never ever be a thing.

[Zuko.7132]

2 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Zuko.7132 the thing is bladesworn rn is very close to being the most overpowered bunker thing in the entire game, meaning it already is at the playable level, however as everyone can agree (I hope) it should NEVER ever be even close to be viable in this shape or form. If they don't want to change bladesworn at all and leave it as a healing/barrier bot then aswell they can remove it completely from pvp, because it promotes an unhealthy and frustrating passive rotational gameplay in PVP which, again, SHOULD never ever be a thing.

Ya i made a post where I suggested increasing the heal cd to 30 and not have it affected by tactical reload in exchange for some more active defense and damage.

[Zuko.7132]

2 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Zuko.7132 the thing is bladesworn rn is very close to being the most overpowered bunker thing in the entire game, meaning it already is at the playable level, however as everyone can agree (I hope) it should NEVER ever be even close to be viable in this shape or form. If they don't want to change bladesworn at all and leave it as a healing/barrier bot then aswell they can remove it completely from pvp, because it promotes an unhealthy and frustrating passive rotational gameplay in PVP which, again, SHOULD never ever be a thing.

The barrier buff was also the wrong choice.

[Widebody.5071]

If adenaline decay was addressed it would make a difference. Was it HOT or right before when they nerfed adrenaline duration and that folks changed the game for warrior. Whenever warriors get in a good place  or players adopt to a play style our entire skill machanics change not enhanced but taken in an entirely new direction when the palyers adapt to that it's wash rinse repeat. We're now at the point where we don't use adrenaline a whole new mechanic has replaced it but it still suffers from the adrenaline hate bug although it lasts longer it restricts the use of mounts, you can't carry it with you. You must stand and fight or die no get aways so you can quickly add distance and reingage. The skill chanelling is screwed up too.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Widebody.5071 said:

If adenaline decay was addressed it would make a difference. Was it HOT or right before when they nerfed adrenaline duration and that folks changed the game for warrior. Whenever warriors get in a good place  or players adopt to a play style our entire skill machanics change not enhanced but taken in an entirely new direction when the palyers adapt to that it's wash rinse repeat. We're now at the point where we don't use adrenaline a whole new mechanic has replaced it but it still suffers from the adrenaline hate bug although it lasts longer it restricts the use of mounts, you can't carry it with you. You must stand and fight or die no get aways so you can quickly add distance and reingage. The skill chanelling is screwed up too.

Before HoT, in the same patch that they changed Arcing Slice's animation.

[Greyrat.2378]

On 4/29/2023 at 8:18 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I've been playing BS almost exclusively the past few months, and I conclude that it is far stronger than most people give it credit for.  It holds up quite well in gold/low plat level play, and I'm sure it could do even better in more competent hands than mine.  It probably would struggle more at the very highest levels, as it can struggle when being hard focused by multiple players, but it should be more than playable for the vast majority of the player base.  And, with BS about to be buffed significantly in the May 2 patch, BS is primed to make a push for a spot in the meta.

 

Here are two of my favorite/most successful builds:

 

Defense/Tactics Bunker/Support Hybrid

 Probably the best build for ranked.  The sustain is otherworldly, and most of it will be further buffed on May 2 (i.e., warhorn buffs, shout heal buffs, Unshakeable mountain).  You anchor teamfights for your side, and provide a great deal of healing, barrier, boons, and condi cleanse--all while doing respectable damage and block-busting CC yourself.  I can outbunker most other bunkers in the meta (e.g., chrono and tempest), and outduel most classes, too.  It's a great all-around fighter, which is why it is so good in ranked where it can fill many roles depending on your team's needs.  

 

As mentioned above, the build struggles with hard focus by multiple players.  That's why I run balanced stance; the crit immunity and pulsing stab usually provide enough of a window for me to use DS Boost to get away, get my heals off, and reset.  It's not a perfect solution, but it works most of the time.

 

Strength/Defense Teamfighter

Easily the most fun way to play, IMO.  You give up your team support healing in favor of significantly better damage and endurance generation.  This makes it an arguably better duelist, too, at least vs power specs, as your extra dodges help you avoid their burst better and your big dmg can put them on the defensive more easily.  

 

Some tips:

1)  Make use of your ranged GS AA attacks.  With high might, your AAs hit for 1-2k+ fairly reliably; its enough to make most enemies burn defensive CDs or dodge, and it softens them up for...

 

2)  Artillery Slash.  This is your main damage dealer.  Unfortunately, its long cast time and slow projectile speed make it very unreliable if not used at fairly close range (~600).  Use it like Bull's Charge; bait the dodge with your auto attacks, then cast AS as they are starting to come out of their dodge.  Don't forget to use FGJ while casting to make sure it rocks them hard.

 

3) Don't use Blooming Fire.  The explosions often miss when you or your target are moving, causing it to do ~500 dmg.  It is theoretically possible for it to do more dmg than an AA, but it is so unreliable and has such a long cast time that you are better off just running through your AA chain in almost every circumstance (esp since the 3rd AA attack hits pretty hard).

 

4) Close with your enemy to attempt your axe combo, then use Breakstep and DS Boost to put distance between yourself and your enemies so you can resume the range battle. 

 

5) Using WH4 just before swapping to GS can help you get off a sneaky AS with the help of the quickness

 

6) Don't try to long charge your DT attacks.  You'll get interrupted much of the time, and the attacks are so telegraphed that good enemies will just dodge them.  Rather, rely on quick double-taps of F2>2  (DS Boost).  This is much harder to see coming/dodge, and it has such a huge hit box that you are likely to hit something.  The attack still hits for 2-3k usually, breaks blocks, interrupts skills, applies weakness, procs adrenal healing and cleansing ire, and creates space between you and your opponent so you can keep attacking them with ranged GS attacks.

 

7) Save your longer-charged DT attacks for when you're not being focused.  You'll often be left alone in team fights because a) a lot of people don't see BS as a threat, and b) because you're tanky AF.  This gives you an opportunity to hop out of the melee and get a 1-2s charge of your DT.  You can make a big difference in teamfights this way by plowing through the enemy team with an unblockable CC that hits for 5-7k that they never saw coming.  

 

8.) consider using DS Reach in teamfights where there is an enemy tempest so you are less likely to get stunned by their shocking aura.

 

9) The biggest counter to this build is Defense Spellbreaker, as its superior mobility and oppressive CC make it hard for you to keep your distance and do your thing.  If you know you're going to be dueling a SpB, it is better to drop WH in favor of Pistol (esp in light of the coming buffs) as the aegis on Pistol 4 can be used reactively to block their attacks/cc and the extra dmg pistol provides allows you to better counter pressure the Spb when they get close.  You want to keep the fight at range as much as possible and wear them down with GS auto-attacks and the occasional artillery slash.  Use quick DS-Boosts to break their blocks, apply weakness, and create distance so you can turn around and start auto-attacking from range again.  Rinse, repeat, and try not to get CC'd.  It's harder than it sounds 😞

 

Hope that helps.  I've had a blast playing BS lately, and I hope you will, too.

 

I'd love to hear your experiences and what you've found to work, as well.  Happy Hunting!

So far very fun to play.
Thanks for the build and tips. 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

1 hour ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

So far very fun to play.
Thanks for the build and tips. 

Glad you're enjoying it!

Try the Strength Defense variant with pistol and take Fierce as Fire. You will absolutely wreck people. It's so much fun! Those 7-8k DS and AS crits get the dopamine flowing.  (I even got a 12k DS force yesterday, although that's clearly an outlier).

Your biggest threat is immobilize. Probably best to run WH in those cases vs a druid or something similar. Alternatively, you can run something like Rune of the Revenant to get some on-demand resistance sources from your heal skills, although your DPS will certainly suffer since you're giving up rune of the eagle.

[Greyrat.2378]

I agree, the pistol variant is a lot more fun to play compared to the warhorn (which is fine as well) and it's nice to have that additional access to aegis.

Definitely a lot more enjoyable than the bonkzerker which unfortunately does not seem to be very viable 😥 (rip the smoothbrain gameplay).

edit: also these crits with axe 3 are pretty funny

Edited May 24, 2023 by Greyrat.2378