It really is time for duo queue to be removed [Merged]

[xellink.7568]

Icebrood saga mastery points. 

[DoomNexus.5324]

1 hour ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

Unfortunately you just can't fix low population.  And because of that the match make is unqualified to make balanced matches. 

The real question in my mind anyway is how to increase the population by a factor of 10 at all hours.

Match quality must improve:
- Let new players start at bronze, not in gold
- Let players queue with a primary and secondary roles so the matchmaker can improve team composition (a team without support vs a team with support is non-sense for example, judging by classes/specs alone is insufficient). This could even be validated by checking the amulet, so if you are running zerker you wouldn't be allowed to queue as support for example. This would of course require that players aren't allowed to change char or gear after entering the match. The main argument why char swapping should be allowed is so players can run around in open PvE with their pve main and play with their pvp main. The accept/map selection should be reworked anyway, no? So maybe make a new Accept system so only characters with the role that was queued with can accept to enter and changing stuff is disabled during the match. So people can still run around until the Q pops, relog to their pvp char and then enter.
- Implement a better afk and throw detection. At least improving afk detection should be rather easy as there are areas no enemy can reach, so staying in those areas for too long while the match is running should result in a kick and dishonor. Rating loss should also only occur on the afk'er. The allowed duration should obviously be long enough to allow regrouping but still pretty short and maybe depend on whether a team mate is currently on a respawn timer. This is obviously still far from great but I think at least slightly better than what we have now.
- Teams should be able to vote for surrender so the afk detection doesn't trigger when the entire team already gave up and let the clock run down
- Instead of removing duo-Q altogether or limiting to only top X% or only plat I'd suggest to limit how far duo-Q players can be apart in their rating. Letting a plat 3 and gold 1 queue together doesn't make a lot of sense or at the very least the rating loss should scale with the deviation between the two players, so a plat 3 would lose a lot more if in a duo-Q with a much lower player.

Toxicity is also a big issue for players, new ones and non-competitive ones in particular, so:
- Disable say, team and map chats during pvp matches and instead make specialized pings like "defend" or "attack" available on the mini-map
- Give pings a cooldown so only a few can be made in short succession so they can't be spamed

The rating system is also a big issue imo since personal performance and match outcome is completely irrelevant, so you are always 100% dependent on 9 other people.
Losing a match 490:500 should be punished less than losing a match 100:500 for example. And if you are working your kitten off with top stats everywhere and like 20 kills and 0 deaths but still lose because none of your mates can hold a single node, you should also not be punished with the full rating loss in my opinion. These are only examples of course, there should be a sophisticated performance rating similar to hltv or leetify in Counter Strike 2 that takes objectives into account.
Would probably work extremely well in combination with the change I mentioned above about roles. For a support player the outgoing heal or boon application/upkeep would be a really high factor for the performance rating but for a roamer it would be (de)capping nodes for example, so the better you play your role the better your rating.
Maybe then Anet could also FINALLY implement volatility how glicko-2 intends to use it (which GW2 allegedly uses for rating calculations).

Edited December 5, 2023 by DoomNexus.5324

[Last Crab.6054]

3 hours ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Lmao. You care too much about something that doesn't really matter in the end.   

What really matters at all, in the end?

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

11 hours ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

It's hard to know what is balanced when Leg1s face gold 1s, or when Plat2s face silver 1s.

You THINK specs are unbalanced, bit more than likely you were facing someone way better.

Don't let your EGO blind you.

If most of the problems that hit the threads were an ISSUE, they would be the meta.

Campaign with me here and on Reddit to get anet to be impartial, and fix the mode.

Balance is SECOND to this 

Hrm:

1. You're right, too much volatility in mixed MMR makes the matches not only not make sense, but it also in general convolutes the purpose & accuracy of the algorithm. But this is not actually the first priority. The first priority would be the amount of match manipulation going on. The algorithm wouldn't feel half as bad if it weren't for those issues. The second priority would be accepting that Arenanet simply does not care about the level of manipulation going on or the algorithm functions. This leads to the 3rd priority which becomes the only priority because it's the only thing they do tend to, and that is class balance.
2. There is more imbalanced sloppy patching going on now than there ever has been. By power creeping everything to where everything does the same thing, they've made the game nearly impossible to balance. When A, B, C, D, E, F, G all do the same thing same role, if C deals slightly more damage than anything else, everyone only wants to play C. But when things are designed to have class individuality where A is healer, B is boon corrupts, C is fast mobile, D is damage dealer, ect ect, even if C is widely considered the most underpowered of them, he will still always have a viable role and people will still play him because he is the only thing that can do his role. <- This is exampled perfectly how DP Daredevil was for many years considered widely underpowered, but it still was always in the meta because it was the only true decap class. Games are much harder to balance when everything does everything because a slight increase in numbers on C, means he becomes inarguably the best and only choice. This is what we have happening in GW2 now and yes it is important to discuss, otherwise we get MATs where every good team is running 5x Eles, as one example of what goes wrong with this kind of balancing.
3. Stop trying to undermine the experience & feedback of the community. Some of you guys act like somehow the longer this game survives and the more experience players have, they are somehow understanding less about the game rather than learning more about it. This is a ridiculous notion. There are people in this community who have been here playing pvp for 11 years. Regardless of if you agree with their take on balance or how they would approach it, their view of it is elaborate and well structures after over a decade of play. This kind of feedback deserves to be listened to.
4. Meta listings are a joke nowadays for several reasons: 1) You have a small handful of Arenanet partnered streamers who when they play a build, meta focus is automatically put on it. Nothing gets attention unless it is played by one of these people. There are A LOT of very strong builds in circulation right now, that arguably are better than some of the listed metas. But due to these builds not being favored or used by a streamer, they'll never be listed as meta. 2) Metabattle.com simply posts the winning MAT comp as "what is meta". There is so much wrong here as to why this is really just not necessarily accurate for "What are the actual strongest current builds & comp". I won't even go into all. If you don't know what I'm referencing, don't worry about it. 3) 2 month periods in between massive balance shake ups is not nearly enough time to really narrow down a central power meta and its counter meta. 4) On top of this, you've got to make distinction between who are the best players and what are the actual best builds. The truth is that an S+ tier player can make an A tier build look S+ tier, and a B tier player can make an S+ tier build look B tier. Consider this.

I would love to see manipulation & cheating of all kinds cracked down on, as well as something done to at least TRY to help the algorithm in low population. But at this point we've learned that we shouldn't hold our breaths on that one.

Honestly man at this point, we could maybe realistically ask them for some simple chops that would help improve things. For example:

1. Just remove the kitten ranked mode and shove all associated pip rewards/achievement unlocks to unranked and remove the visible leaderboards & division badge icons and titles. I hate saying this but seriously man, the ranked mode has become a cesspool for fake gaming. It's not even fun anymore. And the reason why it happens is because of the clout attached to the rating and titles. All of that just needs to go. If the pip rewards/achievements for legends were all in unranked, this would highly discourage cheating of all forms and just encourage people to play unranked for fun. Even the cheaters have to bet bored of cheating man. It would probably be relieving to them if they didn't feel the need to keep up with the cheating fake clout display game and they could just play for fun again. Then we can leave competitive for ATs & MATs 5 man premade teams that intrinsically due to the format, eliminates most forms of match manipulation. This is the way it should be. Even funneling the queue population into just unranked, would significantly enhance the match maker's functions.
2. Fight more for balance issues. Yes, in contrast to your post, fighting for balance issues is an important thing my dude. If we didn't do this, we'd still have 5 Catalysts in every MAT team. Balance issues are important.

4 hours ago, Eddbopkins.2630 said:

The real question in my mind anyway is how to increase the population by a factor of 10 at all hours.

Read my suggestion about generally eliminating the toxic ranked mode.

If people could casual queue in unranked for all those rewards, we'd have a lot more people queueing within the first week. When they have to queue into ranked and run into a bunch of gobligook AFK & DC matches, throws, win trades, the mode isn't even fun enough to stick around to complete the legend they THOUGHT the wanted before seeing how boring it is to play bad matches over and over for it.

I'm telling you guys, if they removed all that rating/badge/title stuff and just put those rewards into unranked and deleted ranked mode, it would eliminate 95% of the motives for people to cheat, people could play for fun again instead of for the eminence front of fake rating, games would be waaaaay cleaner, and the population for that unranked queue would at least double on the first day this was implemented, also enhancing match quality due to allowing the algorithm more people to do its job, and those numbers would almost surely go rise over the course of time when the game didn't feel like the worst fake larped match making you've ever seen in any game ever.

After this was implemented ^ They could do something like provide pvp reward tracks that straight granted mastery points & mastery XP for pve masteries. Regardless of if it was repeatable or not, even a one time reward track that did this, would bring in a lot of new players to test the scene. And the more new players we have to fill games seeded with mostly new players, this would funnel in a new growth of players who might actually stay interested. But they have to be able to go into games with people of their similar experience levels, otherwise they get tired real quick of being farmed by plat+ players, and gladly leave to never come back. The idea here would be to provide reward tracks that really specifically target the interests of newer players. We don't need higher gold rewards and **** like that, we need reward tracks that do things like grant way more tomes of knowledge than normal or that grant hero points, stuff like that. Things that would allow a player to mess around in pvp while unlocking his pve stuff, would likely draw a lot of interest from newer players. The more interest we could draw all at once, the more new players that could arrive in bulk from this, and the more full we could get unranked games of new players, so they can play without the plat+ farm being present. This is what we need in terms of reviving a surge for the game modes we already have.

It also wouldn't hurt to merge courtyard/stronghold into the normal map roulette shuffle for every normal queue, and just remove the check mark box system in unranked, which also divides player base and often confuses new players when they don't understand "why am I in a 30 minute queue for pvp?" because they have stronghold select. A lot of people don't even ask in map chat "what's going on here?" and they just leave and don't come back because 30 minute wait is immediately a bad first impression of the game mode. I also think most older veteran players would enjoy having a reason to play the occasional stronghold/courtyard match for something different to do. It wouldn't be a big deal now with build templates that allow us to easily shift builds per match type that may roll.

 

[whooot.5784]

I wont even bother to argument with that, there is already billion post who explain the thing way better than me.

Just remoove duoq, this so disgustingly unfair for people playing soloq in a full pu team, against full premade (double duo) in other team, like wtf, how this sh** is even possible ? This is infuriating trully.
Games will only be better after that and more balanced ..... Cause right now the MMR is a complete joke.

We asked you that already billion time Anet, why don't you listen it ? Pvp is already dying cause so few people still plays the game and you just don't care ..

REMOOVE DUO Q !! PLEASE ! Or make a separate q idk, but do it, it should've been done since many years now.

I can only advice players to spam topic like that, perhaps if there are 10 post like this in the same page, Anet will finaly listen us ? Bump others topic related as well.

If you want to save Spvp, this is the way.

[whooot.5784]

Bump needed so Anet can finally understantd it ?

[Last Crab.6054]

20 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Hrm:

1. You're right, too much volatility in mixed MMR makes the matches not only not make sense, but it also in general convolutes the purpose & accuracy of the algorithm. But this is not actually the first priority. The first priority would be the amount of match manipulation going on. The algorithm wouldn't feel half as bad if it weren't for those issues. The second priority would be accepting that Arenanet simply does not care about the level of manipulation going on or the algorithm functions. This leads to the 3rd priority which becomes the only priority because it's the only thing they do tend to, and that is class balance.
2. There is more imbalanced sloppy patching going on now than there ever has been. By power creeping everything to where everything does the same thing, they've made the game nearly impossible to balance. When A, B, C, D, E, F, G all do the same thing same role, if C deals slightly more damage than anything else, everyone only wants to play C. But when things are designed to have class individuality where A is healer, B is boon corrupts, C is fast mobile, D is damage dealer, ect ect, even if C is widely considered the most underpowered of them, he will still always have a viable role and people will still play him because he is the only thing that can do his role. <- This is exampled perfectly how DP Daredevil was for many years considered widely underpowered, but it still was always in the meta because it was the only true decap class. Games are much harder to balance when everything does everything because a slight increase in numbers on C, means he becomes inarguably the best and only choice. This is what we have happening in GW2 now and yes it is important to discuss, otherwise we get MATs where every good team is running 5x Eles, as one example of what goes wrong with this kind of balancing.
3. Stop trying to undermine the experience & feedback of the community. Some of you guys act like somehow the longer this game survives and the more experience players have, they are somehow understanding less about the game rather than learning more about it. This is a ridiculous notion. There are people in this community who have been here playing pvp for 11 years. Regardless of if you agree with their take on balance or how they would approach it, their view of it is elaborate and well structures after over a decade of play. This kind of feedback deserves to be listened to.
4. Meta listings are a joke nowadays for several reasons: 1) You have a small handful of Arenanet partnered streamers who when they play a build, meta focus is automatically put on it. Nothing gets attention unless it is played by one of these people. There are A LOT of very strong builds in circulation right now, that arguably are better than some of the listed metas. But due to these builds not being favored or used by a streamer, they'll never be listed as meta. 2) Metabattle.com simply posts the winning MAT comp as "what is meta". There is so much wrong here as to why this is really just not necessarily accurate for "What are the actual strongest current builds & comp". I won't even go into all. If you don't know what I'm referencing, don't worry about it. 3) 2 month periods in between massive balance shake ups is not nearly enough time to really narrow down a central power meta and its counter meta. 4) On top of this, you've got to make distinction between who are the best players and what are the actual best builds. The truth is that an S+ tier player can make an A tier build look S+ tier, and a B tier player can make an S+ tier build look B tier. Consider this.

I would love to see manipulation & cheating of all kinds cracked down on, as well as something done to at least TRY to help the algorithm in low population. But at this point we've learned that we shouldn't hold our breaths on that one.

Honestly man at this point, we could maybe realistically ask them for some simple chops that would help improve things. For example:

1. Just remove the kitten ranked mode and shove all associated pip rewards/achievement unlocks to unranked and remove the visible leaderboards & division badge icons and titles. I hate saying this but seriously man, the ranked mode has become a cesspool for fake gaming. It's not even fun anymore. And the reason why it happens is because of the clout attached to the rating and titles. All of that just needs to go. If the pip rewards/achievements for legends were all in unranked, this would highly discourage cheating of all forms and just encourage people to play unranked for fun. Even the cheaters have to bet bored of cheating man. It would probably be relieving to them if they didn't feel the need to keep up with the cheating fake clout display game and they could just play for fun again. Then we can leave competitive for ATs & MATs 5 man premade teams that intrinsically due to the format, eliminates most forms of match manipulation. This is the way it should be. Even funneling the queue population into just unranked, would significantly enhance the match maker's functions.
2. Fight more for balance issues. Yes, in contrast to your post, fighting for balance issues is an important thing my dude. If we didn't do this, we'd still have 5 Catalysts in every MAT team. Balance issues are important.

Read my suggestion about generally eliminating the toxic ranked mode.

If people could casual queue in unranked for all those rewards, we'd have a lot more people queueing within the first week. When they have to queue into ranked and run into a bunch of gobligook AFK & DC matches, throws, win trades, the mode isn't even fun enough to stick around to complete the legend they THOUGHT the wanted before seeing how boring it is to play bad matches over and over for it.

I'm telling you guys, if they removed all that rating/badge/title stuff and just put those rewards into unranked and deleted ranked mode, it would eliminate 95% of the motives for people to cheat, people could play for fun again instead of for the eminence front of fake rating, games would be waaaaay cleaner, and the population for that unranked queue would at least double on the first day this was implemented, also enhancing match quality due to allowing the algorithm more people to do its job, and those numbers would almost surely go rise over the course of time when the game didn't feel like the worst fake larped match making you've ever seen in any game ever.

After this was implemented ^ They could do something like provide pvp reward tracks that straight granted mastery points & mastery XP for pve masteries. Regardless of if it was repeatable or not, even a one time reward track that did this, would bring in a lot of new players to test the scene. And the more new players we have to fill games seeded with mostly new players, this would funnel in a new growth of players who might actually stay interested. But they have to be able to go into games with people of their similar experience levels, otherwise they get tired real quick of being farmed by plat+ players, and gladly leave to never come back. The idea here would be to provide reward tracks that really specifically target the interests of newer players. We don't need higher gold rewards and **** like that, we need reward tracks that do things like grant way more tomes of knowledge than normal or that grant hero points, stuff like that. Things that would allow a player to mess around in pvp while unlocking his pve stuff, would likely draw a lot of interest from newer players. The more interest we could draw all at once, the more new players that could arrive in bulk from this, and the more full we could get unranked games of new players, so they can play without the plat+ farm being present. This is what we need in terms of reviving a surge for the game modes we already have.

It also wouldn't hurt to merge courtyard/stronghold into the normal map roulette shuffle for every normal queue, and just remove the check mark box system in unranked, which also divides player base and often confuses new players when they don't understand "why am I in a 30 minute queue for pvp?" because they have stronghold select. A lot of people don't even ask in map chat "what's going on here?" and they just leave and don't come back because 30 minute wait is immediately a bad first impression of the game mode. I also think most older veteran players would enjoy having a reason to play the occasional stronghold/courtyard match for something different to do. It wouldn't be a big deal now with build templates that allow us to easily shift builds per match type that may roll.

 

Balance issues are second to a functioning game mode. 

5 catas in a MAT speak enough for themselves without the incessant whining.

I don't know how much of the feedback they read here because there have been non stop requests by a majority of players to remove duo q.

This all may be pointless now.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

12 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

This all may be pointless now.

Well that's what I'm talking about.

They've said everything they've needed to say to us without saying anything at all.

It can quite clearly be translated into: "We don't care".

This is unfortunately true.

[Waffles.5632]

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm telling you guys, if they removed all that rating/badge/title stuff and just put those rewards into unranked and deleted ranked mode, it would eliminate 95% of the motives for people to cheat, people could play for fun again instead of for the eminence front of fake rating, games would be waaaaay cleaner, and the population for that unranked queue would at least double on the first day this was implemented, also enhancing match quality due to allowing the algorithm more people to do its job, and those numbers would almost surely go rise over the course of time when the game didn't feel like the worst fake larped match making you've ever seen in any game ever.

 

This is pretty clever and a good idea imo. I actually hope someone at Anet sees this and at least brings it up.

I think it would be the single best move for pvp that Anet could do atm.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

6 hours ago, whooot.5784 said:

I can only advice players to spam topic like that, perhaps if there are 10 post like this in the same page, Anet will finaly listen us ? Bump others topic related as well.

If you want to save Spvp, this is the way.

It's good work, but lots of players have been doing the exact same thing here for years and with no result. Like close to 10 years, even back on the old forums you can find plenty of related topics. The General Hux in German moderation is going to be following each one closely for any kind of slip up; allowing complete degenerates to goad you into a ban, and that's all if they don't just immediately lock it as soon as it is bumped.

Your best bet; the winning move as a soloq, is not to play. Let the duoqs wear themselves out, wasting their time on bots and newbies until we get a soloq-only ranked arena. Doesn't have to be the only ranked arena, of course, but there should at least be 1. Don't give Arenanet a penny either, not until they actually do their job to an extent that justifies paying their salaries.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

7 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

1. Just remove the kitten ranked mode and shove all associated pip rewards/achievement unlocks to unranked and remove the visible leaderboards & division badge icons and titles. I hate saying this but seriously man, the ranked mode has become a cesspool for fake gaming. It's not even fun anymore. And the reason why it happens is because of the clout attached to the rating and titles. All of that just needs to go. If the pip rewards/achievements for legends were all in unranked, this would highly discourage cheating of all forms and just encourage people to play unranked for fun. Even the cheaters have to bet bored of cheating man. It would probably be relieving to them if they didn't feel the need to keep up with the cheating fake clout display game and they could just play for fun again. Then we can leave competitive for ATs & MATs 5 man premade teams that intrinsically due to the format, eliminates most forms of match manipulation. This is the way it should be. Even funneling the queue population into just unranked, would significantly enhance the match maker's functions.

If people could casual queue in unranked for all those rewards, we'd have a lot more people queueing within the first week. When they have to queue into ranked and run into a bunch of gobligook AFK & DC matches, throws, win trades, the mode isn't even fun enough to stick around to complete the legend they THOUGHT the wanted before seeing how boring it is to play bad matches over and over for it.

I'm telling you guys, if they removed all that rating/badge/title stuff and just put those rewards into unranked and deleted ranked mode, it would eliminate 95% of the motives for people to cheat, people could play for fun again instead of for the eminence front of fake rating, games would be waaaaay cleaner, and the population for that unranked queue would at least double on the first day this was implemented, also enhancing match quality due to allowing the algorithm more people to do its job, and those numbers would almost surely go rise over the course of time when the game didn't feel like the worst fake larped match making you've ever seen in any game ever.

After this was implemented ^ They could do something like provide pvp reward tracks that straight granted mastery points & mastery XP for pve masteries. Regardless of if it was repeatable or not, even a one time reward track that did this, would bring in a lot of new players to test the scene. And the more new players we have to fill games seeded with mostly new players, this would funnel in a new growth of players who might actually stay interested. But they have to be able to go into games with people of their similar experience levels, otherwise they get tired real quick of being farmed by plat+ players, and gladly leave to never come back. The idea here would be to provide reward tracks that really specifically target the interests of newer players. We don't need higher gold rewards and **** like that, we need reward tracks that do things like grant way more tomes of knowledge than normal or that grant hero points, stuff like that. Things that would allow a player to mess around in pvp while unlocking his pve stuff, would likely draw a lot of interest from newer players. The more interest we could draw all at once, the more new players that could arrive in bulk from this, and the more full we could get unranked games of new players, so they can play without the plat+ farm being present. This is what we need in terms of reviving a surge for the game modes we already have.

Smartest input you've had in a while. Best way to get rid of the big bad wintraders right here ^ Deflate their massive egos.

The cartel already owns ranked, there's little chance of ever taking it back and most the people that play are just PvE players coming in for the rewards and then getting out. Wouldn't be so toxic if the cartel had nothing to gain from them and they could play without stepping on the toes of some clout-chasing egomaniac.

 

no to forced stronghold though. Stronghold is hot garbage and the 25 minute-longer queues are proof. Just need to move pips over and delete titles and lb.

[DoomNexus.5324]

8 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Stronghold is hot garbage and the 25 minute-longer queues are proof. Just need to move pips over and delete titles and lb.

Stronghold is way more enjoyable than Conquest imo. Don't know about the 25min queue, usually I can join a match in (way) less than 5min but haven't queued for like half a year or so.
I'd love to have unranked matches also progress season reward tho with basically no other changes. Leaderboard titles should stay, ranked should stay how it is, just the season rewards also be achievable via unranked. I wouldn't even mind only getting pips on wins (no pity loss pips) or only half of what you'd get in ranked in general.

Not only could I play Stronghold or with a full team and still get progress towards the league chests (because anything in unranked is more enjoyable than the ranked toxic cesspool imo) but it would also give PvE players a chance to get their stuff without kittening up ranked matches just for loot.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

58 minutes ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Stronghold is way more enjoyable than Conquest imo. Don't know about the 25min queue, usually I can join a match in (way) less than 5min but haven't queued for like half a year or so.

Same Trev prolly knows how it be so I trust what he says there. I'm sure it's gotten a bit longer, maybe not 20 minutes longer but eh.

58 minutes ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Not only could I play Stronghold or with a full team and still get progress towards the league chests (because anything in unranked is more enjoyable than the ranked toxic cesspool imo) but it would also give PvE players a chance to get their stuff without kittening up ranked matches just for loot.

I think it should remain an option because it's clear it has crowd, just don't think it should be forced and being able to opt out is 👍 TDM(courtyard) I'd be for because that's a more classic mode and then more modes if ever. Been playing lots of ESO since I ditched this circle jerk and that game's pvp has conquest, TDM, oddball, KOTH, and CTF all in the playlist. PvP is pretty garbage and laggy but its rewarding and almost 3x more varied.

58 minutes ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

I'd love to have unranked matches also progress season reward tho with basically no other changes. Leaderboard titles should stay, ranked should stay how it is, just the season rewards also be achievable via unranked. I wouldn't even mind only getting pips on wins (no pity loss pips) or only half of what you'd get in ranked in general.

Halfing them for unranked I get but the pity points should be unranked exclusive don't know why those were ever added to the competitive mode when it's an incentive for casual play and often times not playing at all, just sat AFK.

[DoomNexus.5324]

18 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I think it should remain an option because it's clear it has crowd, just don't think it should be forced and being able to opt out is 👍 TDM(courtyard) I'd be for because that's a more classic mode and then more modes if ever. Been playing lots of ESO since I ditched this circle jerk and that game's pvp has conquest, TDM, oddball, KOTH, and CTF all in the playlist. PvP is pretty garbage and laggy but its rewarding and almost 3x more varied.

Forcing stuff is always bad, yea.
Like I said above I don't mind Conquest being the de-facto ranked mode, more unranked modes like courtyard would be great tho! And more rewards for unranked would also be great, maybe even a "light" version of the season rewards which excludes Ascended shards of glory and pvp tickets or something, so the legy stuff is still gated behind ranked - if this is a concern to Anet or the community. But honestly I wouldn't even mind that Ranked is purely for the leaderboard and Unranked gets access to the same stuff.
Climbing ranks is enough incentive in Counter Strike, League of Legends, ... virtually every competitive game ever. Why does gw2 need to create extra stuff to lure in people who couldn't care less?
Like I said, I'm absolutely convinced that PvE only players being forced to play ranked just to get loot creates toxicity and frustration for everybody involved. I can recall at least a handful of instances where people in my guild wrote in guild chat how relieved they are after finally getting their item and never having to go to pvp anymore.. It doesn't create incentives (which I think was a reason behind many things), it's just an annoyance for everybody.

I also tried to get into ESO's pvp but I just can't stand that movement and combat system. In general, but it's so much worse for pvp imo.
Idk, it feels so floaty and weird, doesn't really make a lot of fun to me. I suspect the animation system is a big part of why the game feel is so off and visual feedback during fights in general is just abysmal in ESO imo.

Iirc last time I wanted to give ESO pvp another shot they announced that they'll also limit to solo-Q only? Which kinda defeats the purpose of any team-based pvp modes in my opinion, for me at least there's no reason to switch games when it's all the same there too. Like, there's no reason for PvP guilds to exist if you can't queue with people at all (or only in modes with virtually no rewards or only on occasions so infrequent you are waiting longer for the next tournament than actually playing the game like in gw2).
And without pvp guilds who is ever going to stick around? There's no "community", just a bunch of individuals who don't care about each other.
Unlike in WvW, which I suspect is the biggest reason why WvW is still so popular (iirc WvW is the second most populated game mode after open pve) and pvp is basically dead now.

Btw one of the main reasons why I'm advocating for a (split) team-queue so much even though I have 0 players I could queue up with at the moment. But I think it's a crucial foundation for any game mode in an mmo.

32 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Same Trev prolly knows how it be so I trust what he says there. I'm sure it's gotten a bit longer, maybe not 20 minutes longer but eh.

Can't really say anything, too much context missing anyway. Is it EU or NA, peak or off-hours, was it measured during an event/new content update, etc.
Maybe I'll hop into Stronghold today, may be fun again 🙂

[DoomNexus.5324]

11 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Like close to 10 years, even back on the old forums you can find plenty of related topics.

PvP suggestions in general. I find it hilarious that one of the older "big pvp changes" checklist from 2018 or so was "bring chairs to pvp lobby". Just shows that there's no real focus on game play.
 

11 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Don't give Arenanet a penny either, not until they actually do their job to an extent that justifies paying their salaries.

Well, "they" don't exist, I don't think the pvp department even exists anymore so nobody is getting paid for pvp stuff. No salaries needed to be justified then.

[Khalisto.5780]

q sync is also easier with duo q, take the least played class that i believe is rev atm and duo q, even if the rating gap is like huge if both duos q as rev they're likely to be matched against each other just cuz the class mirrorring priority in matchmaking is absurdly high.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

19 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

PvP suggestions in general. I find it hilarious that one of the older "big pvp changes" checklist from 2018 or so was "bring chairs to pvp lobby". Just shows that there's no real focus on game play.
 

Or answering feedback. Ben P was prolly the only dev that cared and PvP is lost without him. The people that took over his role do not read these forums or make any attempt to learn from past mistakes. It's just patch to patch, the same old nonsense.

19 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Well, "they" don't exist, I don't think the pvp department even exists anymore so nobody is getting paid for pvp stuff. No salaries needed to be justified then.

I think they stuck a literal couple(2 people) on competitive balancing. 2 people that are probably unpaid interns because both used to be players and they're probably doing it just to do it, and if those 2 are reading this and they are getting paid, they shouldn't be. I've seen college kids working at Starbucks with a stronger work ethic.

They should pluck some random vet from these forums to do it, and I bet they could do a better job and all while having the same exact qualifications. Besides clout maybe, but might doesn't make right. Sorry to disappoint you Charr players, but that is bogus. Righteousness makes right 🙏

The GMs, community team, and moderation too; they're even worse, probably the absolute worst and it makes no sense because they were some of the best just a few years ago. Used to have a friend who was a GM at Anet before the layoffs a while back and they straight up told me that reports for AFKs and match manipulation get tossed aside and never touched. Some people might say they get it because PvP is an afterthought, but I don't accept that. It's part of the ToS, and it's their job to enforce the ToS they came up with. Otherwise they should come out and say that cheating is allowed and AFK is allowed because right now it is overlooked and they say neither are allowed according to ToS. Scam ☝️😡

[DoomNexus.5324]

6 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Or answering feedback. Ben P was prolly the only dev that cared and PvP is lost without him. The people that took over his role do not read these forums or make any attempt to learn from past mistakes. It's just patch to patch, the same old nonsense.

I think they stuck a literal couple(2 people) on competitive balancing.

True. I was looking through some old "Upcoming PvP/competitive changes" and got a little bit sad when I read BenP's old posts. Was always fun to see him in Jawgeous's chat back when he streamed on twitch and Ben was probably the only reason why PvP wasn't complete garbage back then (compared to now, it was in a declining state compared to like the HoT-era already tho).

Yea but the balancing team doesn't make new content, that was my point. There's probably nobody left working on actual gameplay updates for PvP.
Anet in general seems to only revamp competitive stuff on a cosmetic level at best. Alliances and world restructuring in WvW also has 0 impact on actual gameplay. Sure, the experience might be a bit better if guilds have at least partial control over who you're matched with but the gameplay-loop stays 100% the same. Sometimes that's also great but Ranked for example hasn't seen even cosmetic changes I think ever since the Colloseum map got reworked or Djinn was introduced (can't remember which one was first, both happened ages ago).

[Eddie.9143]

bump