Engineer Complete Profession Rework

[AquaBR.9250]

Mechanist became a vey popular elite after its release, but why?
Many say because it is cool or OP, but many other elites are also cool and OP, so i give you another reason to add: less buttons, you can play it without the crippling finger pain of having EXTRA 5 skills that you have to press (some every 7 seconds) to play the class properly, this may also be a reason why rifle got popular after the rework with its 1111 rotation.
With the point of making engi more enjoyable and less painful to play while also having an active and interactive turret gameplay i present you the engineer profession rework, by: a person with chronic tendinitis.

I'll make it a simple read
Remove toolbelt mechanic entirely
Add turrets as profession mechanic.

How it works

F1 "Target": The turrets attack the selected target
F1 F2 F3: Turrets
you can equip on those slots 3 between the available turrets, if anet want to go an extra mile they can add new turrets to engies to learn, with new abilities just like rangers can tame new pets:
Asura Turret

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/8/86/Asuran_Turret.jpg

 

Charr Turret

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/9/96/Turret_(environmental_weapon).jpg/240px-Turret_(environmental_weapon).jpg

 

Sylvari Turret

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/6/6c/Sylvari_Mortar_Turret.jpg

What about expansion exclusive ones?
HoT: Scrap cannon turret (maybe an exalted turret?)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/d/db/Charr_Scrap_Cannon_Token.jpg/640px-Charr_Scrap_Cannon_Token.jpg

PoF: Forged Turret

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/6/66/Forged_Cannon.jpg/640px-Forged_Cannon.jpg

EoD: Jade Turret

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/thumb/e/e4/Security_Turret_(Active).jpg/640px-Security_Turret_(Active).jpg

The turrets will work the same way they do as utility, with a few changes:

• They stay "charged" for 15 seconds, after wich they will stop attacking, interacting with them will "Charge" reactivating them for another 15 seconds (some traits may allow you to add time to that, like adding 3 seconds when you hit with an explosion) you can interact before they deactivate to reset the timer.
• They Overcharge again automatically after 20-30 seconds remaining charged.
• When placed the F2 F3 F4 skills change to self destruct.

Utility skills and old toolbelt skills
The utility skills you use will improve the turrets using the old toolbelt skills as a basis.
F2 will be 7
F3 will be 8
F4 will be 9
When you use a utility skill, it will generate an effect at the assigned turret, the effect can be the exact same as the toolbelt skill related to that utility ones.

Replacement for the turret skills
Here we have the Command skills for engineer, with combo fields so you can combo with your turrets 🙂.
Remote healing
Your active turrets heal around them each second and repair themselves a bit.
Combo field around turrets: Water Field
Remote overcharge
You Charge your active turrets and Overcharge them, the turret assigned to this skill stays overcharged for 33% more time.
Combo field around turrets: Lightning Field
Overheat turrets
Your turrets deal 25% more damage for x seconds, the assigned turret also Overcharges and get this bonuses for 33% more time. After that the turrets get inactive for 3 seconds.
Combo field around turrets: Fire Field
Warp Turrets
You call all turrets to your location (around the character not centered) Charge them and reduces the cooldown of turret skills, the assigned turret overcharges/recharges its cooldown after it is warped.
Combo field around turrets: Ethereal Field

Call supply crate

The flavor of the elite can stay the same, but with the bonus of recharging the turrets on cooldown

This is it, the hard part would be reworking traits.

What about the elites?

The elite mechanics will replace the F3 turret, leaving a scrapper and a holosmith with two turrets and the elite mechanic.

About mechanist...
Make the active mech skills passive, everyone leaves them on auto anyway, but for the two turrets, make them come out of the mechs shoulders and walk with it (nerf the entire elite spec in the process cuz this is op)

Pros of this rework
- Less button smashing
- Interactive turret play
- A more unique profession mechanic
Cons of this rework
- The 10 bucks you spent on your cold wirstband from ebay to be able to play engi painless will be wasted.

Edited June 7, 2023 by AquaBR.9250

[The Boz.2038]

Cons:

• Useless in mobile fights.
• Minimal actual gain
• Huge requirement for new turret buffs related to utility skills, while scrapping existing skills
• Why?

[jason.1083]

And what about people who despise turrets?

Some of us play engi but don't like turrets, I am ok with turrets getting buffed maybe, but having the whole class revolve around something so specific would drive a lot of players away from it. 

Overcharging turrets sound nice, maybe you could add that on a skill from tool kit, so you can heal them and trigger overcharges every time that skill comes off cooldown, focusing the whole proffesion around them will really impact it's versatility. And it would be especially bad for people who don't like turrets, and want a more mobile build.

 

[Endaris.1452]

3 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

Mechanist became a vey popular elite after its release, but why?

Because it was ridiculously overpowered and completely choked out build diversity for instanced PvE, especially alacrity support, in its unbalanced state for several months. I would still call it overpowered in relation to the innate power it brings for the extremely low investment, especially now that your mech abilities can autocast.

Plus your suggestion is more or less toxic for PvP as useful turrets imply extreme point control with bunker builds.

So either you make them useful so people actually play your new engineer, completely screwing PvP balance or you make them weak and then you basically just made the core class even more worthless than it already is, given all the outdated skills it has compared to some other classes.

Personally I was extremely disappointed by mechanist because instead of fixing their old "unit deployment" fantasy, they just ignored these broken parts of engi and wasted it on a new e-spec.

[AquaBR.9250]

8 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

And what about people who despise turrets?

Some of us play engi but don't like turrets, I am ok with turrets getting buffed maybe, but having the whole class revolve around something so specific would drive a lot of players away from it. 

Overcharging turrets sound nice, maybe you could add that on a skill from tool kit, so you can heal them and trigger overcharges every time that skill comes off cooldown, focusing the whole proffesion around them will really impact it's versatility. And it would be especially bad for people who don't like turrets, and want a more mobile build.

 

So what about ppl who don't like clones?  but having the whole mesmer class revolve around something so specific would drive a lot of players away from it

[AquaBR.9250]

7 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Because it was ridiculously overpowered and completely choked out build diversity for instanced PvE, especially alacrity support, in its unbalanced state for several months. I would still call it overpowered in relation to the innate power it brings for the extremely low investment, especially now that your mech abilities can autocast.

Plus your suggestion is more or less toxic for PvP as useful turrets imply extreme point control with bunker builds.

So either you make them useful so people actually play your new engineer, completely screwing PvP balance or you make them weak and then you basically just made the core class even more worthless than it already is, given all the outdated skills it has compared to some other classes.

Personally I was extremely disappointed by mechanist because instead of fixing their old "unit deployment" fantasy, they just ignored these broken parts of engi and wasted it on a new e-spec.

But why turrets don't add extreme point control already? why moving them to the class mechanic would do it? you make no sense

[AquaBR.9250]

8 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Cons:

• Useless in mobile fights.
• Minimal actual gain
• Huge requirement for new turret buffs related to utility skills, while scrapping existing skills
• Why?

- You can move them mister brains

- Disagree

- No skill has scrapped in this concept, read again

- READ 

[The Boz.2038]

Oh, I see somebody is touchy about their precious idea. 

Carry on.

[Endaris.1452]

4 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

But why turrets don't add extreme point control already? why moving them to the class mechanic would do it? you make no sense

You will be able to find dozens of threads lamenting the state of turrets but I'll give you a brief summary:

Turret damage and stats do not scale with your own stats, only conditions and boons applied by the turret themselves are affected by engineer stats.

Turrets cannot be affected by boons.

Turrets do not block non-piercing projectiles, being damaged by them but also letting them pass through.

Turrets main damage / functionality is in their overcharge function. Turrets overcharge only once upon being placed and after that deal pathetic damage, making them not static objects dealing damage but effectively active skills that don't go on cooldown until you pick them or blow them up.

These are all reasons why turrets currently suck kitten. If you make turrets engi's class mechanic, that means engi as a class will absolutely suck. If you buff them correspondingly, the extreme point control is back. I didn't follow competitive GW2 PvP much when it still existed before HoT but when turrets where still good and you could handle overcharge functionality manually, every team fielded a celestial bunker turret engi, with my knowledge with no exception.

If people choose to use turrets these days it is mostly for the turret's toolbelt skill, aka the very class mechanic you're seeking to remove. The only turret that is considered good on its own is healing turret because it has an AoE heal, a water field and a blast condensed into one skill making it a potent group heal option - which means that the healing turret itself is never on the field for more than a second but virtually always gets insta-exploded.

Finally, replacing engi's class mechanic would require a rework of all engineer utiliy skills because they're intentionally made weaker than other classes' skills to compensate for the fact that they grant you a toolbelt skill as well. So yes, you're scrapping about 30-40 toolbelt skills with a rework like that.

So to sum it up:

Gets boons? Turrets, no, Mech, yes.

Affected by player stats? Turrets no, Mech yes.

Still relevant after 5s of first using in combat? Turrets no, Mech yes.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Endaris.1452

[AlPower.2476]

I like turrets but not at the point of being the entire class and specs center.

Also; in PvE current engineer never hasn't been that good; we are in a good spot ty to recent holo buffs; even thought i'd prefer to have core condi over holo but welp, engineer (in pve) isn't bad for get a rework. Maybe Scrapper, but they are reworking already all quickness and alacrity sources.

PvP one and WvW needs some love.

I'd go for an inventions rework and turrets reworks, but not at the level of be the entire class and specs center-

Edited June 8, 2023 by AlPower.2476
imo

[Zzik.5873]

I stop reading at remove toolbelt mechanic... just no, go play another class if you dont like the toolbelt mechanic. Its like saying I like mesmer but I want the clone mechanic to be remove...

[mov.1246]

No, thanks.

Not everyone enjoys 11111 rotation. I agree that every class needs competetive builds that are low AND high intensity. BUT a low intensity build should NEVER perform better than a high intensity build. It is healthy for a game if players who want to improve their performance are able to play builds that are more complex and beeing rewared with higher numbers.

Not a fan of complete class reworks, yes most classed need shaves here and there. But completely rework a class is just a bad idea. What about all that players who enjoys engineer in the state it is now?

[jason.1083]

11 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

So what about ppl who don't like clones?  but having the whole mesmer class revolve around something so specific would drive a lot of players away from it

Mesmer clones are a core mechanic, and every elite spet taps into it and makes use of them in some way or another, even if it adds it's own twist into them. Engineer Turrets are a set of skills.

Clones are far more diverse than turrets, they take after the player meaning you can choose if they will be melee or ranged depending on your weapon, and you can choose what effects they'll have based on your build. Turrets have 1 of each general purpose and they are mostly not that great at what they do anyway, as I said buffing them sounds ok, but not making turrets into a mandatory thing. That's why we got toolbelt, because it's diverse and you can choose what to do with it by choosing different utilites. 

12 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

But why turrets don't add extreme point control already? why moving them to the class mechanic would do it? you make no sense

Turrets don't add extreme point control, mostly because they are squishy (most of them having <10k hp), and they are mainly used for their 1 overcharged attack, if you want them to actually have more point control they should increase their health significantly(I'd say make them scale with player vitality like the jade mech, so tanky builds that are already supposed to do point control get their turrets also be tanky), maybe make the engineer source player armor increase the more turrets they have around them and make toolkit really buff turrets such as being able to trigger overcharged attacks with it.

Making it into a class mechanic is not the solution, you don't have to force every engineer player to use turrets to make them useful.

[Stalima.5490]

On 6/7/2023 at 10:04 PM, AquaBR.9250 said:

So what about ppl who don't like clones?  but having the whole mesmer class revolve around something so specific would drive a lot of players away from it

Didn't they put virtuoso in the game?

[Zzik.5873]

11 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

Didn't they put virtuoso in the game?

Yop and they did mechanist for those that dont like toolbelt, does not mean to remove it from the entire class. Im a mechanist enjoyer but I would not want anet to remove them from the rest of the espec.