Pve Scourge Nerf

[shib.1369]

18 hours ago, Atomnium.1532 said:

Qherald is probably dead, Qscrapper is probably dead as well.

We currently know nothing about the baseline quickness durations these builds will get, so it's not sensible to even speculate about their effectiveness.

I'm scared, but declaring them "probably dead" is very much unnecessary.

[kingnelu.1642]

rip scourge mains

time to go back to WoW

[August Valek.9368]

But.. but, I love my necromancer as he is, this is why we can't have nice things

[Shae.9147]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:17 PM, shib.1369 said:

We currently know nothing about the baseline quickness durations these builds will get, so it's not sensible to even speculate about their effectiveness.

I'm scared, but declaring them "probably dead" is very much unnecessary.

where i do agree i also think the changes made to scrapper specifically were previously removed from the class for good reason now they are adding it back and deeply tying it to how you apply boons. which is just bruh. imho they are going too far in the other direction and imho should just remove boons from the game at this rate and just add flat stats to everyone and everything to replace alac and quickness. as the way they are trying to add it now is just going to kill it for anyone who wants to feel like they are doing something. before you knew what you were doing and it was somewhat reactive now its just... there? i dont like it. 

and scourge itself is just doomed to fail because of this mentality the entire patch is trying to engage in is totally killing every boon dps for me, i dont want to play this way and they are changing every boon dps to be  like this. my fave build is heal scourge and ive been playing it nonestop for months now and i adore it, to me its totally dead after the patch just to give some alac? no thanks. they either need to do something much much better or remove the need to provide alac/quickness period. 

[Black Templar.2184]

Anet, i urge you to read this

Scourge has been completely destroyed...
They took away everything that made it stand out just to give alacrity while other specs do it a lot better and with better utility and sustain.

Even as a necro main, I'm completely fine with some of the nerfs, but taking away what makes a profession "special" in its own way, that, I am not ok with...

Removing boon corruption and turning it into a normal boonstrip is a bad idea.

The sand shade duration reduction is brutal and will turn scourge into a spam shade spec, making it very boring and annoying to play ESPECIALLY that you can no longer use the single sand shade to save yourself a lot of f1 spamming, in case you want to take the alac trait. That is just a bad design.

Even when it comes to healing, the nerfs to healing traits and skills are also brutal. I wouldn't mind if they were reasonable nerfs, but this is just too much.

Anet, i urge you to review your changes on scourge, otherwise it will end up buried in the sand. Players will shift to other alacrity professions that can do it 10 times better than scourge, and your whole philosophy and goal concerning scourge this patch will be pointless. 

[Shahak.9206]

This is the first time Ive ever posted here, having played this game when it first came out, when the endgame was at Orr. The 20 to 8 sec sand shades nerf will surely finally kill off the scourge. The tradeoff is just crappy, and it feels like a moneygrab nerf where only the newer EoD classes are viable. Its just disgusting how low the devs have sunk. Mark my words, when SotO launches, more older classes will be nerfed as well.

[Shadowmoon.7986]

9 hours ago, Shahak.9206 said:

This is the first time Ive ever posted here, having played this game when it first came out, when the endgame was at Orr. The 20 to 8 sec sand shades nerf will surely finally kill off the scourge. The tradeoff is just crappy, and it feels like a moneygrab nerf where only the newer EoD classes are viable. Its just disgusting how low the devs have sunk. Mark my words, when SotO launches, more older classes will be nerfed as well.

Wait til tuesday, scourge will probably be better than harb in a group setting. I have a feeling harb will be a bettet burst condi class but scourge will do more  damage once its condis ramp up. 

Remember scourge is getting a 8% torment damage boost and a 10% burning damage boost with extra burning on f2. It will be in a better place than a month ago. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Shadowmoon.7986
Math fail

[Necrovore.4712]

10 hours ago, Shahak.9206 said:

This is the first time Ive ever posted here, having played this game when it first came out, when the endgame was at Orr. The 20 to 8 sec sand shades nerf will surely finally kill off the scourge. The tradeoff is just crappy, and it feels like a moneygrab nerf where only the newer EoD classes are viable. Its just disgusting how low the devs have sunk. Mark my words, when SotO launches, more older classes will be nerfed as well.

The upcoming balance patch might fix some of it but I agree the 8 second Sand Shade duration really is too short. Three suggestions:

- increase duration to 12 sec (still 40% shorter than the original 20, but 50% more than the current abysmal 8 sec) and evaluate it in 3 months

- make F1 auto-castable like rifle mech skills (although it’s a bit difficult to do that with ground targeted AoE) or 

- make F1 have zero cast time - and not interrupt auto attack chains  

 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

1 hour ago, Necrovore.4712 said:

The upcoming balance patch might fix some of it but I agree the 8 second Sand Shade duration really is too short. Three suggestions:

- increase duration to 12 sec (still 40% shorter than the original 20, but 50% more than the current abysmal 8 sec) and evaluate it in 3 months

- make F1 auto-castable like rifle mech skills (although it’s a bit difficult to do that with ground targeted AoE) or 

- make F1 have zero cast time - and not interrupt auto attack chains  

 

F1 already doesn't interrupt auto attack chains.  As far as I know, it never has.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Obtena.7952]

Serious question: What are the claims that an 8 second Shade is too short based on? Sure, it's spammy but does anyone thing they can't be effective as Alac Healer role @ 8 second Shade duration? I mean, that's the relevant question here because you can bet your @ss that Anet set that duration based on how they intend for the Scourge to be played in its role as an Alac healer.

In otherwords, if spamming shades is the mechanic of Alac Healer Scourge, we should be seeing a slew of arguments presented for why Shade duration needs to be longer than it's count recharge. ... except we aren't. So why would Anet listen to people about shade duration if they aren't saying why that duration doesn't work as an alac healer?

Edited July 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Because the reasons the 8 second shade duration doesn't work as an alac healer are the same reasons it doesn't work for literally any Scourge variant.  It's limiting (full effectiveness of Shroud necessitates a shade placement right beforehand), it's annoying (extremely frequent need to cast a preparation skill so you can do what you actually want to do), and it leads to bad gameplay (drastically reduced area coverage on an extremely low radius, especially for support).

 

It's part of why Ventari was so frustrating to use before they made the tablet spawn on legend swap instead of needing to manually summon it.  You don't much care about placing the shade itself, you care about what having the shade placed lets you do.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Swan.9815]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

What are the claims that an 8 second Shade is too short based on?

Personally I'm not a fan of having to basically do the Cairn CM mechanic minus the teleporting, but more frequently, just to be able to use my class features.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Support scourge is suffering atm that's for sure. It had a chunk of it's strong unique features nerfed, while what it got in return is baseline boon support kit, that all healers have but with more on top. Aoe Stunbreaks, huge range boon application, good party stab, resistance, resolution, protection, easy 25 might for your group.

But enough about offmeta warrior support builds....

[MJxD.4251]

2 hours ago, Swan.9815 said:

Personally I'm not a fan of having to basically do the Cairn CM mechanic minus the teleporting, but more frequently, just to be able to use my class features.

i 1000% agree with this statement.

[rotten.9753]

3 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Because the reasons the 8 second shade duration doesn't work as an alac healer are the same reasons it doesn't work for literally any Scourge variant.  It's limiting (full effectiveness of Shroud necessitates a shade placement right beforehand), it's annoying (extremely frequent need to cast a preparation skill so you can do what you actually want to do), and it leads to bad gameplay (drastically reduced area coverage on an extremely low radius, especially for support).

That was probably the reason for nerf - to reduce your control area. Mechanist was similar in that regard that you could cast supportive spells without being there, and they gutted Mechanist.

[Obtena.7952]

9 hours ago, Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Because the reasons the 8 second shade duration doesn't work as an alac healer are the same reasons it doesn't work for literally any Scourge variant.  It's limiting (full effectiveness of Shroud necessitates a shade placement right beforehand), it's annoying (extremely frequent need to cast a preparation skill so you can do what you actually want to do), and it leads to bad gameplay (drastically reduced area coverage on an extremely low radius, especially for support).

 

It's part of why Ventari was so frustrating to use before they made the tablet spawn on legend swap instead of needing to manually summon it.  You don't much care about placing the shade itself, you care about what having the shade placed lets you do.

There is a difference between 'doesn't work' and 'don't like it'. Based on my testing, 8 seconds does work because as a healer you ideally target players to heal them in that instant. Theoretically, that requires 0 seconds of shade duration. I'm mainly having issue with the radius because Scourge effectiveness as a healer is significantly influenced by team positioning but I can see the reason for the duration nerf. Anet wants to have a situation where it's possible to balance shade healing because there is only 1 scenario, not 3 different ones. 

The issue here is that the perspective of looking at this change must be from that of a spec that is NOW intended to heal with shades. 

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Obtena.7952