List of leap and blast finishers for scrapper

[Endaris.1452]

Just for curiosity's sake, along with their effective cooldowns for the sake of the funny patch we have coming. Effective cooldowns meaning how many leaps/blasts the skill provides per minute.

Skills only accessible on non-scrapper engi specs are ignored.

~~~ Traits ~~~

Aim-Assisted Rocket, 4 finishers per minute

~~~ Weapon Skills ~~~

Rocket Charge, 10 finishers per minute

Jump Shot, 3.33 finishers per minute

Magnetic Inversion, 3 finishers per minute

~~~ Heal, Utility and Elite skills ~~~

Flamethrower, 10 finishers per minute

Thumper Turret, 4.58 finishers per minute

Elixir Kit, 4 finishers per minute (according to patch notes, Acid Bomb won't profit from HGH losing its CDR)

Throw Mine, 4 finishers per minute (according to patch notes, this won't profit from Gadgeteer losing its CDR)

Rocket Boots, 3.75 finishers per minute

Bomb Kit, 3 finishers per minute

Rifle Turret, 3 finishers per minute

Flame Turret, 3 finishers per minute

Healing Turret, 3 finishers per minute

Blast Gyro, 2.4 finishers per minute

Net Turret, 2 finishers per minute

Med Kit, 2 finishers per minute

Rocket Turret, 1.5 finishers per minute

Elixir X, 1.4 finishers per minute

Supply Crate, 1 finisher per minute

~~~ Class Mechanic ~~~

Function Gyro, 2.4s finishers per minute

 

The 2 notable outliers in terms of how many finishers can be provided for quickness are hammer 3 on scrapper and flamethrower 2.

Hammer will not be played on heal scrapper. In turn, heal scrapper will not run explosives, making AAR a somewhat unlikely trait to be relevant for quickness although it will likely be taken on DPS quickness to patch holes.

A build fully dedicated to providing max finishers may perform up to 35 finishers per minute in unrealistic scenarios.

To upkeep quickness with the current builds and unchanged 2.5s base quickness from the trait, 12 finishers per minute are needed for heal scrapper and 19 finishers per minute for DPS (rounded up).

To provide reasonable uptimes, the heal build would likely want to perform 14 finishers rather than just 12 in order to confidently avoid gaps (14% more quickness than needed).

Any healing build will want to run shield (3), medkit (2), elixir gun (4)  and likely mortar (0). With function gyro (2.4) that puts us at 11.4 which leaves us a bit over 2 finishers per minute short. The only reasonable options to fill with with are Throw Mine and Blast Gyro as the quickness trait mechanic has negative synergy with experimental turrets, making turrets useless for the purpose of quickness on a healer. Rocket Boots are for hopefully obvious reasons not an option. So that leaves heal quickness with 1 free utility to pick, not too bad.

/edit: According to a poster below, Acid Gun was getting the CDR in PvE in stream which would bring hScrap to 12.4 finishers per minute which would be barely enough for perfect quickness on 100% BD. I would still think that's too close for comfort so it doesn't change the conclusion.

 

On DPS you get 12.4 baseline from hammer 3 and function gyro.  Similar to the healing one, realistically we probably want to aim for 20 or 21 finishers per minute to make sure to not drop quickness in a real encounter.

The most obvious utility to keep from the current DPS build would be throw mine as it pushes us straight to 16.4 finishers per minute. Normally for damage we want shredder (best damage per casttime) and grenades (to make the rotation not suck). AAR brings us to ~19.5 (I assume a bit less than 4 as we don't run a projectile MH weapon) which may already be enough but any out of rifle turret, healing turret and blast gyro could be taken to overcap on quickness to the degree that the build can run full berserker on gear. Although flamethrower doesn't seem outright necessary, Grenade + Flamethrower also seems like an interesting variant as it smoothes out the rotation by always having 2 extra skills to fill in the weird space between AAs and electro-whirl CD and definitely allows running full zerker.

/edit: According to a poster below, Throw Mine was getting the CDR in PvE in stream which would bring qScrap to 20+ finishers per minute which would should be just enough overcapping to keep the current build and just switch Blast Gyro for Throw Mine with likely next to no DPS change.

 

Similarly, for a condi variant, we'd have flamethrower (10), function gyro (2.4), bomb kit (3) and AAR (4) for 19.4 total with healing turret pushing the number up into a comfort zone where full vipers could be feasible.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Endaris.1452
cd corrections from stream

[Jerus.4350]

Acid Bomb and Throw Mine both were shown as receiving cooldown reductions on the stream, but not in the patch notes.

Throw Mine: 15s to 12s in PVE and 30s to 24s in PVP/WVW.

Acid Bomb from 15s to 12s.

[Monchichi.9301]

So I could do thunderclap > blast gyro > shredder gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > eletrowhirl to get 5 quickness procs about every 20 seconds? Then do function gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > electrowhirl and get another 5 about every 25 seconds?

That seems like I'd be well covered for quickness with a pretty simple rotation if quickness duration is long enough. Hopefully they don't give us just 1 sec each proc. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

52 minutes ago, Monchichi.9301 said:

So I could do thunderclap > blast gyro > shredder gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > eletrowhirl to get 5 quickness procs about every 20 seconds? Then do function gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > electrowhirl and get another 5 about every 25 seconds?

That seems like I'd be well covered for quickness with a pretty simple rotation if quickness duration is long enough. Hopefully they don't give us just 1 sec each proc. 

Except the patch notes say Whirl finishers don't provide Quick. Only Blast or Leap finishers.

[ProfCarson.7124]

1 hour ago, Monchichi.9301 said:

So I could do thunderclap > blast gyro > shredder gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > eletrowhirl to get 5 quickness procs about every 20 seconds? Then do function gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > electrowhirl and get another 5 about every 25 seconds?

That seems like I'd be well covered for quickness with a pretty simple rotation if quickness duration is long enough. Hopefully they don't give us just 1 sec each proc. 

If this is the close to the rotation you need to keep 100% quickness up, then the change from Gyros providing quick to leap and blast finishers providing quick was redundant since that change was supposed to free up Scrapper's skills.

[Sirvaleen.1379]

1 hour ago, Monchichi.9301 said:

So I could do thunderclap > blast gyro > shredder gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > eletrowhirl to get 5 quickness procs about every 20 seconds? Then do function gyro > throw mine > rocket charge > electrowhirl and get another 5 about every 25 seconds?

That seems like I'd be well covered for quickness with a pretty simple rotation if quickness duration is long enough. Hopefully they don't give us just 1 sec each proc. 

Not on a DPS oriented-build. You can not drop grenades if you don't want your DPS to drop significantly afaik..
There you have one gyro too many for next patch. Will have to drop Blast (too bad if you liked having a stunbreak I guess..).

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

1 hour ago, Sirvaleen.1379 said:

Not on a DPS oriented-build. You can not drop grenades if you don't want your DPS to drop significantly afaik..
There you have one gyro too many for next patch. Will have to drop Blast (too bad if you liked having a stunbreak I guess..).

All the apologizing right now trying to make this change not sound bad misses this point entirely above. DPS scrapper just got reemed. hScrapper is not getting better either. Anyone who thinks this will make a scrapper desirable for grouping in PvE are just kidding themselves at this point.

People are essentially telling scrappers that to be a scrapper, their core kit features should be ignored, and provide even less DPS (I mean it's bad enough that scrappers are below mechanist in the DPS department as is).