[BALANCE] Druid DPS Reaction & Ideas

[kroof.5468]

Hi y'all, 
So, I've really warmed up to the idea of Druid - thematically -  dishing out more damage. However, the balance preview left me with a mild excitement of this fantasy. Granted, we have not play tested this yet, so I give all the information about the changes a bit of grace. This being said, I do see some alternate directions the Druid could have gone down, to really give players agency to shift the spec in a totally different vibe. All while still holding true to the celestial themes of the Druid. 
     I'll post my Imgur album of tooltips I talk about, if you want to have it in a more familiar format to visualize what I'm talking about. 
     Imgur: https://imgur.com/a/ZRsUbfg

Core Changes
Staff 1 & Staff 2 could use a bit more damage for any type of Druid, healing or DPS. Taking inspiration from the way Specter splits its scepter skills, I believe the best way to add more damage while keeping a balance would be to differentiate Enemy Target and Ally Target effects. I also believe this mentality and skill design would *really* benefit the CA auto as well. (And almost every class. :P)
 
 Solar Beam: Focus a beam on a foe or an ally. 
           Enemy Target: Damage and Burning to foes. 
           Ally Target: Healing. 
   Astral Wisp: Send a wisp to a target 
            Enemy Target: Pulse Damage and Confusion to foes. 
            Ally Target: Heal your target and then pulse healing around them. 
   [CA] Cosmic Ray: Call down cosmic energy. (150 radius)
             Enemy Target: Damage and Burning. 
             Ally Target: Healing around target. 
   [Non-CA Glyph] Glyph of Stars:  Summon a Star at a location, burning foes and granting might to allies. (Really split non-CA to damage, and CA to healing.)

 CA auto-attack having a target choice to also deal damage would feel great for PvE druids, and not make it to where your only damage option would be to use the 5th skill. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DPS Druid Traits
The traits are where the Druid could really shine in the DPS department. The traits shown off on stream didn't scream "Oh we really are allowing Druids to hold their own in combat scenarios to take down targets." The traits felt more focused on providing them utility --which isn't bad, but it doesn't feel like DPS. Also, I am very fearful of traits dealing damage on interrupts and control effects. What happened to purity of purpose? So I thought switching the ordering and tailoring them more tightly to DPS could be more fulfilling. 

Blood Moon: Celestial Avatar becomes an avatar of destruction. CA spells no longer heal, but apply damage and more deadly conditions. 
   Cosmic Ray: 2 Bleed
   Seed of Decay: Damage, Torment & Poison 
   Lunar Impact: Damage and Confusion 
   Torrential Tides: Damage, Bleed & Slow  [grants might still.]
   Natural Convergence: Burning. 
Natural Balance: While in CA, deal more damage. | Take reduced damage when leaving CA for a limited duration. 
    (+15% Outgoing Damage.)
    (-20% Incoming Damage. 3~ish seconds?)
Eclipse: Burning you apply deals more damage, and grants you Might. (CD on this?) | Burn foes when entering CA. 
   (+10% Burning Damage.) 
   (CA Damage: 450. 2 Burning. 300 Radius). 

[Additional Trait Idea because we are already getting Alac in the GM]
Lingering Light: While in CA, healing to others is increased. | Leaving CA summons an orb of light at your location, healing allies. 
  (+20% Outgoing Healing.)
  (Orb Healing (6x): 1,500.  300 Radius. 5s Duration.)

This is all for fun, and I really have been enjoying the balance as of late [scourge redacted from this], but I just wanted to contribute a lil. (probably another place to post this, but I just felt I had a lot on me mind.) 

Edited June 19, 2023 by kroof.5468

[Smudgem.1628]

I love love love these ideas! Burning condition on any type of "solar/star/sun" related skills thematically and aesthetically make sense to me. I really want to see these be implemented, especially the ally target healing buffs. And thank you for providing visual aid, it really helps to understand the vision. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

To me it looks like making Druid a viable DPS looks to have been something they came up with to try to sell a change they wanted to make for other reasons.

 

It looks to me like they wanted to get rid of Ancient Seeds because it was annoying people playing other classes and they just didn't want to come outright and say their goal was to remove Ancient Seeds.

Adding a pitiful amount of conditions to CA really doesn't seem like it would add DPS. 

 

Did the druid not have enough Conditions with the Axe or Shortbow? Transforming into CA will disable their ability to use the weapon abilities for the duration of the form. So I'm struggling to see how it will really boost DPS unless there is a massive amount of stacks of conditions on the CA skills .. 

But they were removing an ability that already does DPS and a stack of 5 Bleeds while you're doing all on top of your regular attacks.

[kroof.5468]

25 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

It looks to me like they wanted to get rid of Ancient Seeds because it was annoying people playing other classes and they just didn't want to come outright and say their goal was to remove Ancient Seeds.

Adding a pitiful amount of conditions to CA really doesn't seem like it would add DPS. 

Mmm I don't necessarily agree with this assumption. They have, in past, outright said when they wanted to get rid of something for the sake of design/philosophy/meta. So, when they lead with wanting to develop a DPS route for Druid, I take that at face value. 
Just, from what was show of the changes, the conditions are not that exciting from a damage potential. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by kroof.5468

[draxynnic.3719]

Been thinking along similar lines myself. Druid lore in GW1 had a sense of there being a balance between a growth and nurturing versus death and decay, so having a CA variant that's a bit less super-healer and a bit more Dark Oak would fit the lore nicely.

I do think that burning on Solar Ray would have to be something like one stack at the end of the channel only, but hey, that fits the theme of focusing sunlight on a target until it catches fire.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

8 hours ago, kroof.5468 said:

Mmm I don't necessarily agree with this assumption. They have, in past, outright said when they wanted to get rid of something for the sake of design/philosophy/meta. So, when they lead with wanting to develop a DPS route for Druid, I take that at face value. 
Just, from what was show of the changes, the conditions are not that exciting from a damage potential. 

The community complains all about fighting against Mesmers constantly. So CMC came in and targeted reducing Bunker Chrono. Removed the ability for Mirages to dodge with CC, slashed their defensive traitline, removed the only thing the Virtuoso F5 had which was it's Block.

But all that was couched in trying to give Mirage the second dodge and boon application.

 

It makes no sense to me to be trying to create a DPS build for a class but the first step to do is to remove the best DPS ability that fits in with anything the player tries to do. Replacing it with what looks like a middling amount of conditions that don't combine and support the rest of the class.

[Acyk.9671]

On 6/19/2023 at 2:14 AM, kroof.5468 said:

Hi y'all, 
So, I've really warmed up to the idea of Druid - thematically -  dishing out more damage. However, the balance preview left me with a mild excitement of this fantasy. Granted, we have not play tested this yet, so I give all the information about the changes a bit of grace. This being said, I do see some alternate directions the Druid could have gone down, to really give players agency to shift the spec in a totally different vibe. All while still holding true to the celestial themes of the Druid. 
     I'll post my Imgur album of tooltips I talk about, if you want to have it in a more familiar format to visualize what I'm talking about. 
     Imgur: https://imgur.com/a/ZRsUbfg

Core Changes
Staff 1 & Staff 2 could use a bit more damage for any type of Druid, healing or DPS. Taking inspiration from the way Specter splits its scepter skills, I believe the best way to add more damage while keeping a balance would be to differentiate Enemy Target and Ally Target effects. I also believe this mentality and skill design would *really* benefit the CA auto as well. (And almost every class. :P)
 
 Solar Beam: Focus a beam on a foe or an ally. 
           Enemy Target: Damage and Burning to foes. 
           Ally Target: Healing. 
   Astral Wisp: Send a wisp to a target 
            Enemy Target: Pulse Damage and Confusion to foes. 
            Ally Target: Heal your target and then pulse healing around them. 
   [CA] Cosmic Ray: Call down cosmic energy. (150 radius)
             Enemy Target: Damage and Burning. 
             Ally Target: Healing around target. 
   [Non-CA Glyph] Glyph of Stars:  Summon a Star at a location, burning foes and granting might to allies. (Really split non-CA to damage, and CA to healing.)

 CA auto-attack having a target choice to also deal damage would feel great for PvE druids, and not make it to where your only damage option would be to use the 5th skill. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DPS Druid Traits
The traits are where the Druid could really shine in the DPS department. The traits shown off on stream didn't scream "Oh we really are allowing Druids to hold their own in combat scenarios to take down targets." The traits felt more focused on providing them utility --which isn't bad, but it doesn't feel like DPS. Also, I am very fearful of traits dealing damage on interrupts and control effects. What happened to purity of purpose? So I thought switching the ordering and tailoring them more tightly to DPS could be more fulfilling. 

Blood Moon: Celestial Avatar becomes an avatar of destruction. CA spells no longer heal, but apply damage and more deadly conditions. 
   Cosmic Ray: 2 Bleed
   Seed of Decay: Damage, Torment & Poison 
   Lunar Impact: Damage and Confusion 
   Torrential Tides: Damage, Bleed & Slow  [grants might still.]
   Natural Convergence: Burning. 
Natural Balance: While in CA, deal more damage. | Take reduced damage when leaving CA for a limited duration. 
    (+15% Outgoing Damage.)
    (-20% Incoming Damage. 3~ish seconds?)
Eclipse: Burning you apply deals more damage, and grants you Might. (CD on this?) | Burn foes when entering CA. 
   (+10% Burning Damage.) 
   (CA Damage: 450. 2 Burning. 300 Radius). 

[Additional Trait Idea because we are already getting Alac in the GM]
Lingering Light: While in CA, healing to others is increased. | Leaving CA summons an orb of light at your location, healing allies. 
  (+20% Outgoing Healing.)
  (Orb Healing (6x): 1,500.  300 Radius. 5s Duration.)

This is all for fun, and I really have been enjoying the balance as of late [scourge redacted from this], but I just wanted to contribute a lil. (probably another place to post this, but I just felt I had a lot on me mind.) 

Your ideas are interesting but replacing daze and/or immob by damaging condition negates any synergy between those CC and the rest of the ranger class and its traits like you did with Blood Moon.

Glyph of the stars is one of the few skills that make Druid viable enough to be part of a squad in WvW so no thanks to burning and might.

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

4 hours ago, Acyk.9671 said:

Glyph of the stars is one of the few skills that make Druid viable enough to be part of a squad in WvW so no thanks to burning and might.

I accidentally read that as 'no thanks to burning at night'--with the recent naming changes was about to post 'please don't give them ideas' then had to re-read it 😂.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

These are the builds I'll be trying in PvP

Sages Condi

Support condi hybrid

Carrion/Wizards army condi

[Acyk.9671]

On 6/22/2023 at 1:30 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I accidentally read that as 'no thanks to burning at night'--with the recent naming changes was about to post 'please don't give them ideas' then had to re-read it 😂.

😀 torch already has Bonfire so who knows