List of presumed changes through the alliance system

[Tavin.7450]

Translated with deepl. - since players from German-speaking community - sorry!

Inspired by this post ( https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/132078-lets-be-real-and-honest-about-world-restructuring ) I have put up my own list here. (The list from the link I understood in such a way that the author wanted to enumerate the quantity at other problems in the WVW, which are not mastered by the alliance system.

Therefore, a separate post which, from my point of view, should summarize the actual points about the alliance. negative AND positive. Depending on your point of view, what is seen as positive may vary.
Feel free to add.

Terms Team - red/blue/green (last server, or linked servers) Alliance - part of the team along with individual guilds and players. There can be several alliances in one team. Relink - also used here for new team compositions from alliances, guilds and players.

 

	positiv		negative
1a	WvW team election no longer "pai to win"/restricted to paying WvW elites (all can participate in team formation). (Active users of these special "pai to win transfers" surely see it differently :P)	1b	Familiar communities break apart familiar and known faces/voices disappear
2a	full servers/teams get proper protection against overpopulation - last bypassable via smaller linking servers	2b	partly much more fluctuation in teams by free team choice
3a	less mass transfers immediately after team composition (last time this happened immediately AFTER new linkings...	3b	Mangement of the voice systems what before often every server had, becomes here a large cluster, of systems, -> difficult to pull the people in many different systems...
4a	More influence and organization possibilities in team building. By the players. With the previous linking system, A-Net partly determines through server linkings who plays in T1 and who plays T5. You had no control without transfers. Without linking partners, or with few active partners it is often really difficult.	4b	More difficult for players without guilds to stay connected
5a	Recording and consideration of online times in WvW of smaller amounts, not only of complete servers	5b	Exclusion of less active WvWers or players considered as "bad" players
6a	Players from PvE can be recruited easier for the own WvW team. There is no longer the constant problem that another server was chosen for the account. -> more advertising e.g. in Lion's Arch for WvW.	6b	Communication between the different alliances/guilds that are linked together is more difficult - it is not visible who belongs to it and there is no unified communication platform, or bulletin boards. Previously, in the best case, you only had to talk to a contact person from another server community. - Here must be organized after each "Relink" aufwändig again - who is in the team at all? - which voice systems are there? - who leads e.g. at the reset on which map? ... Topic is treated here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/131861-please-make-an-alliance-info-available-at-least-1h-before-alliance-relink-reset/
7a	less empty servers/ no artificial keeping alive of little active servers	7b	No uniform language in the team, or no language choice (yet) possible Topic here:
8a	matchups are closer together	8b	non-English leads sometimes have a hard time, or others can't participate in Voice, even if they are interested in Voice Topic dealt with here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/131970-wvw-alliances-communication-challenges-on-eu-servers/
9a	...	9b	...

 

Even though I've come up with more negative than positive points, I'm actually always very confident, because I have good imaginations about what can be implemented technically. Unfortunately, it is very annoying that for many years there has been no significant and visible progress in the development of the alliances, with very similar betas and bugs again and again.
I am very excited to see the alliance test at the end of summer.
 

Note:
The weeks of the WvW activity check before a relink should vary, by the way, or run longer, for example, sometimes 2 and sometimes 3 weeks before, so that it is not deliberately falsified by players, in which they intentionally leave a week the main account.

The stronger discussions on individual points are mostly in other topics. Maybe I can find more positive points, or you have more ideas.

I hope the translation has worked to large parts,  thanks 🙂

Edited June 19, 2023 by Tavin.7450

[Custodio.6134]

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

Familiar communities break apart
familiar and known faces/voices disappear

not necessarily, depending on the circumstances. For the "average pug" with no actual contact to any of the "established guilds of their current server": yes. They´ll most likely lose their connection to all the random faces they encountered on their server so far. However: This would only be an issue if literally EVERY alliance that forms would not accept ANY random players (which is unlikely, even though it´s possible). Solution: --> find other players (your familiar and known faces/voices) and form a guild/alliance. You have to use the "Pro" of being able to choose your teammates here to counteract it. 
 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

partly much more fluctuation in teams by free team choice

If the system works as intended, there shouldn´t be any noticeable fluctuation in teams (as long as you look at them in relation to each other, not total sizes). Once the teams have been built, they´re locked until the next re-creation of the teams. So the only fluctuation you will get, is the natural fluctuation due to player activity, which just has the same influence in both, the current system and after WR. The crucial part here (and this is where ANet has to be EXTREMELY careful) is, that transfers are handled differently to prevent overstacking. I´m saying this, because ANet already hinted that they consider allowing transfers mid-season.
 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

Mangement of the voice systems
what before often every server had, becomes here a large cluster, of systems, -> difficult to pull the people in many different systems...

At least for EU, there is already an "all alliances discord" in the making. And eventually, no matter if this example works out or not, the players WILL inevitably find a solution (most likely a centralized platform that contains at least MOST of the alliances that "survived" the beginning, aka, "established alliances"). Of course, the transition/launch WILL be absolute chaos, but it will settle down after some time. 
 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

More difficult for players without guilds to stay connected

Join the same guild. simple as that. You have 5 guild-slots. Surely there is one of them you can use to gather everyone. Although, ANet really should consider adding a sixth guild-slot just because of this. 
 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

Exclusion of less active WvWers or players considered as "bad" players

i have no idead how "bad" players would influence the team-creation-algorithm. And, since the system should always cater the majority of active players, having less active people also less impact makes sense to me. 

 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

Communication between the different alliances/guilds that are linked together is more difficult - it is not visible who belongs to it and there is no unified communication platform, or bulletin boards.
Previously, in the best case, you only had to talk to a contact person from another server community.
- Here must be organized after each "Relink" aufwändig again
- who is in the team at all?
- which voice systems are there?
- who leads e.g. at the reset on which map?

We don´t even know the full process of team-creation/re-creation after season end. And, again, the community is ALREADY working on a platform for that.
About which guilds/alliances are used in order to create the teams upon season-start: this will probably be announced beforehand, just as re-links currently. 
The voice-systems are nothing ANet has to consider, since it´s not ANet's job to maintain community-built platforms. 
And about reset: that´s no different to re-links currently. You´ll reach out to your future teammates and organize. And will be utter chaos upon season start, just as it currently is upon re-linking. 
 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

No uniform language in the team, or no language choice (yet) possible

ANet already stated, that language-choice is something they want to consider in the final iteration of the system. We just didn´t see it yet, since first of all: we didn´t even have alliances in beta yet, and second: even if we had, that´s probably a later implementation. 
 

34 minutes ago, Tavin.7450 said:

non-English leads sometimes have a hard time, or others can't participate in Voice, even if they are interested in Voice

this is no different to the current system, and an issues the players have to solve. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Custodio.6134

[Xenesis.6389]

Oh huh, thank you for the mention. I'm glad my post has led to other discussions. 

Your post brings up a lot of good points of what the good and bad will come with the system itself. Some of these things will be overcome by the more permanent groups though. For instance communications I'm sure many of the alliances will setup an alliance channel where they can all meet and run their raids, acting very much like a server of today. Since these alliances are not remade every two months like the worlds are, they will be the constant to hold multiple guild communities together for a long time.

As for matchups being closer..... well that's one of the things I question going into the change with all the current systems intact. Even the two weeks of beta now shows there's blowouts that can still happen, we could dispute that with well no one is taking beta seriously to ppt hard, maybe when the system is final it will be much different. But I have my doubts, unless it's tournaments or uber rewards for winning, players aren't going to take ppt seriously enough to overcome the point differences.

Good point on recruitment from pve again since servers won't matter anymore.

[Tavin.7450]

1 hour ago, Tavin.7450 said:

partly much more fluctuation in teams by free team choice

"If the system works as intended, there shouldn´t be any noticeable fluctuation in teams (as long as you look at them in relation to each other, not total sizes). Once the teams have been built, they´re locked until the next re-creation of the teams. So the only fluctuation you will get, is the natural fluctuation due to player activity, which just has the same influence in both, the current system and after WR. The crucial part here (and this is where ANet has to be EXTREMELY careful) is, that transfers are handled differently to prevent overstacking. I´m saying this, because ANet already hinted that they consider allowing transfers mid-season."

 

I think the part was misunderstood, because I did not describe it in such detail. I mean of course the fluctuation of the allies by a new balacing of the teams to the relink. who was the last weeks in your team is then suddenly in another team and you get completely different teammates assigned and because the alliances are smaller than servers, it will be larger quantities that are exchanged. (not everyone will join the 500 person alliance :)) The hard core that stays together permanently is smaller and you have to motivate more new people to join voice etc. Sometimes it will work well and sometimes it will be hard work.

The points were mentioned only for clarification again by me ^^

By the wy i personally don't see all the negative points quite as bad 🙂 But they are there for now and partly big issues for some in WvW.

Thanks.

[Dawdler.8521]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

As for matchups being closer..... well that's one of the things I question going into the change with all the current systems intact. Even the two weeks of beta now shows there's blowouts that can still happen, we could dispute that with well no one is taking beta seriously to ppt hard, maybe when the system is final it will be much different. But I have my doubts, unless it's tournaments or uber rewards for winning, players aren't going to take ppt seriously enough to overcome the point differences.

What was the final match results last week? I never looked at reset.

We've regularly seen blowouts with the winning team having almost 2x the matchup points of the loosing team in normal WvW, not sure we had that last week.

[Xenesis.6389]

38 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

What was the final match results last week? I never looked at reset.

We've regularly seen blowouts with the winning team having almost 2x the matchup points of the loosing team in normal WvW, not sure we had that last week.

https://i.imgur.com/dEey6gD.jpg

Think I did this one early friday I think. This week there's like 30 point difference in some matches already by monday.

But it's beta, the first week was on par with first week of relinks, not the best conditions, so can't really judge but it does give me some doubt, it's really no different than what we current get from regular matches. 🤷‍♂️

Edited June 19, 2023 by Xenesis.6389