State of Quickness Providing

[Malus.2184]

Scrapper is no longer viable unless you use a hammer. This invalidates using other weapons at all and kits are only usable in a small window. This change will make Heal Scrapper unviable in all content since they have to animation lock themselves to provide Quickness, which is something you'd never your healer to do as it discludes them from making clutch uses of skills to save people since the kits they use provides no Blast Finishers.

Meanwhile, Heralds can give out Quickness just by existing. A Herald with just 39% Boon Duration applies Quickness every 3-sec with a 4-sec duration and STILL has enough energy left to maintain a rotation before switching to another Legend and if the Legend is Assassin they can just use Impossible Odds to satisfy the Upkeep requirement and continue giving Quickness since with the Spirit Boon Shiro gives Might to nearby Allies and since that's a Boon people get healing and Quickness.

I can see the intent of these changes and the execution leaves a lot to be desired because they're as balanced as a hippo on a seesaw and have some, I can only hope, unintended consequences since the change to Scrapper makes them seriously unviable as a Quickness provider since they can only effectively do this while already in combat and any sort of non-DPS Scrapper automatically disqualifies themself.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Malus.2184

[Divity.3049]

Yeah mean Quickness Scrapper and HealScrapper feel like kitten now, super restriced and just more complicated with no upside. You cant even put down 4 Combofields and use 1 Finisher since it will still only give you Quickness once. Absolute terrible changes that made my favourite 2 builds meh

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

Heal Scrapper unviable in all content since they have to animation lock themselves to provide Quickness, 

that statment is false

you can animation cancel with weapon swap

Also quickness now apply 6s insted of 4s, and +3% power conversion to concetration from kinetic acelerators

 

it's huge buff  for qheal scrapper (in pve)

Quote

Yeah mean Quickness Scrapper and HealScrapper feel like kitten now, 

What you guys talking about, are we play different games?

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Judge Dread.9078]

In PVE Quickscrapper is still super viable. It's weird so far, but from what I've seen, boon uptime is better. As far as fields are concerned, in group content there's always fields on the ground so it doesn't matter.

[Malus.2184]

10 minutes ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

that statment is false

you can animation cancel with weapon swap

Also quickness now apply 6s insted of 4s, and +3% power conversion to concetration from kinetic acelerators

i tested it on t4, and i did 22-29s stack of quickness with same skills ( bulwark gyro, blast gyro, elixir gun) 

it's 50% duration more compare to before patch

 

it's huge buff  for qheal scrapper (in pve)

What you guys talking about, are we play different games?

 

Then you have A LOT of Boon duration and if you have that then your Critical Hit rate will suffer, which will make your overall DPS suffer as well. My support DPS build has 52% Boon Duration and a 4½-sec Quickness.

And you can animation cancel Leap, and if you do that, then Quickness will be significantly lower since the Leap Finishers are only on hit 2 and 3. Then you also need to animation cancel when using Acid Bomb on the Elixir Gun.

Or I can just play Quick Herald with Dwarf and Assassin and get a better result for less than half the effort.

[Malus.2184]

6 minutes ago, Judge Dread.9078 said:

In PVE Quickscrapper is still super viable. It's weird so far, but from what I've seen, boon uptime is better. As far as fields are concerned, in group content there's always fields on the ground so it doesn't matter.

That makes them dependent on others to do things and then either pay close attention or hope then saying its a bit of a problem is a bit of an understatement when QHerald just yawns and then Quickness happens.

[Judge Dread.9078]

I still havent had an issue solo. It does require some extra brainpower but I havent had an issue putting down fields on my own. Been running strikes, raids and open world events and whatnot all morning.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Quote

I still havent had an issue solo. It does require some extra brainpower but I havent had an issue putting down fields on my own.

did you forgot that Elite mortal kit have 4 fields in it 🙄

from 2 to 5 button

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Judge Dread.9078]

Tbh yes xD. Yet more to the point that quickscrapper is honest better overall.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

42 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

Then you have A LOT of Boon duration and if you have that then your Critical Hit rate will suffer, which will make your overall DPS suffer as well. My support DPS build has 52% Boon Duration and a 4½-sec Quickness.

And you can animation cancel Leap, and if you do that, then Quickness will be significantly lower since the Leap Finishers are only on hit 2 and 3. Then you also need to animation cancel when using Acid Bomb on the Elixir Gun.

Or I can just play Quick Herald with Dwarf and Assassin and get a better result for less than half the effort.

i tested it and you can do 100% quickness on full berserker (23% concetration) 

for utylites i used medic gyro, shred gyro, throw mine, blast gyro

28-31k dps

Edited June 27, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Judge Dread.9078]

I'm using rocket charge, function, healing turret (Blast finisher) blast gyro and throw mine. Honestly all of those are probably a bit *too much*. Could probably go to medic gyro to simplify rotation.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

7 minutes ago, Judge Dread.9078 said:

I'm using rocket charge, function, healing turret (Blast finisher) blast gyro and throw mine. Honestly all of those are probably a bit *too much*. Could probably go to medic gyro to simplify rotation.

your not picking scrapper, it's scrapper picking you

Edited June 27, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Sias.4592]

You can upkeep quickness with 2 diviners (prepatch build) with no problem. Now you are not locked to 3+ gyros. 

Blast gyro is a fire field AND a blast finisher itself. You can use bomb kit to access another blast finisher and another firefield. Want more fields? Mortar and your heals skills. As for the Hammer lock: nope, you can also use Rifle for a leap finisher. You can even use Shield for another Blast Finisher. Flamethrower also got a firefield and a blast finisher. You can use rocket boots too!

Now, doors are open for more build options

[Noah Salazar.5430]

13 minutes ago, Sias.4592 said:

You can upkeep quickness with 2 diviners (prepatch build) with no problem. Now you are not locked to 3+ gyros. 

Blast gyro is a fire field AND a blast finisher itself. You can use bomb kit to access another blast finisher and another firefield. Want more fields? Mortar and your heals skills. As for the Hammer lock: nope, you can also use Rifle for a leap finisher. You can even use Shield for another Blast Finisher. Flamethrower also got a firefield and a blast finisher. You can use rocket boots too!

Now, doors are open for more build options

Yeh like, finaly one sain person here xD

flame blaster have 6s cd, you actualy will can play cqdps scrapper atm

while using fields from mortar 2-5 button or bomb kit (2-3 button)

 

We definitly play different game from ppl up

https://killproof.me/proof/SHitE

Edited June 27, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Malus.2184]

1 hour ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

i tested it and you can do 100% quickness on full berserker (23% concetration) 

for utylites i used medic gyro, shred gyro, throw mine, blast gyro

28-31k dps

And what weapon did you use? Also, that in no way shouts "better freedom of choice" as was the intended result of the change. Meanwhile, on QHerald all the Core Legends have a 6 Upkeep ability allowing for incredible flexibility according to the fight.

- Need to just beat things hard= Assassin with Impossible Odds

- Need Stability = Dwarf with Vengeful Hammers and Inspiring Reinforcement

- Need healing = Centaur with Protective Solace and everything else.

- Need Boonrip = Demon with Embrace the Darkness and Banish Enchantment

- Need good all-round = Dragon using any combination that adds up to 6 Upkeep

Due to Spirit Boon, they all give Boons which procs the healing from Elevated Compassion., It's something, as well as Facet of Nature if things really hit the fan. And I can freely use whatever weapon I want.

That's the sad reality. Scrapper can work is it worth the time investment into doing it though when it's so much easier to do on QHerald? And it fails the intended goal with the change since you have less freedom of choice as you need to have a specific combination for X to work. It would be nice if Scrapper was similar to QHerald in practical freedom of choice.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Malus.2184

[Noah Salazar.5430]

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

And what weapon did you use? Also, that in no way shouts "better freedom of choice" as was the intended result of the change. Meanwhile, on QHerald all the Core Legends have a 6 Upkeep ability allowing for incredible flexibility according to the fight.

- Need to just beat things hard= Assassin with Impossible Odds

- Need Stability = Dwarf with Vengeful Hammers and Inspiring Reinforcement

- Need healing = Centaur with Protective Solace and everything else.

- Need Boonrip = Demon with Embrace the Darkness and Banish Enchantment

- Need good all-round = Dragon using any combination that adds up to 6 Upkeep

Due to Spirit Boon, they all give Boons which procs the healing from Elevated Compassion., It's something, as well as Facet of Nature if things really hit the fan. And I can freely use whatever weapon I want.

That's the sad reality. Scrapper can work is it worth the time investment into doing it though when it's so much easier to do on QHerald? And it fails the intended goal with the change since you have less freedom of choice as you need to have a specific combination for X to work. It would be nice if Scrapper was similar to QHerald in practical freedom of choice.

Need Stability -> Defence field (part of skill with field)

Need Aoe stun break -> Bypass Coating (part of still with field+blast that also provid 13 might aoe)

Need healing -> Blasting/Leaping while Medic Gyro 

Need Boonrip -> Throw mine, that is blast finisher (3+1 boon strip)

Need 3 ppl ress evry 25-35s? f5 (that also give aoe swifness now)

Need Aoe superspeed? any gyro skill or f1

Need Aoe mass cc? 3+5 on hammer (stun+leap+dazex2 in one) + blast gyro (3s stun), + throw mine (2s stun)+ Supply Create (2s stun ult)

 

All that as full dps, yep

Supply crate is aoe condi cleanse/heal/cc and blast as ult in one

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Noah Salazar.5430

[Malus.2184]

8 hours ago, Noah Salazar.5430 said:

Need Stability -> Defence field (part of skill with field)

Need Aoe stun break -> Bypass Coating (part of still with field+blast that also provid 13 might aoe)

Need healing -> Blasting/Leaping while Medic Gyro 

Need Boonrip -> Throw mine, that is blast finisher (3+1 boon strip)

Need 3 ppl ress evry 25-35s? f5 (that also give aoe swifness now)

Need Aoe superspeed? any gyro skill or f1

Need Aoe mass cc? 3+5 on hammer (stun+leap+dazex2 in one) + blast gyro (3s stun), + throw mine (2s stun)+ Supply Create (2s stun ult)

 

All that as full dps, yep

Supply crate is aoe condi cleanse/heal/cc and blast as ult in one

 

 

- Requires an essentially wasted utility slot since the usability is extremely dodgy in usability for DPS.

- The only thing that can be used reactively is the Defense Field, the Bypass Coating, and the Supply Crates. Everything else has to be used as part of your upkeep rotation which makes their utility dubious. It's the exact same problem the Heal Specter had before. Wells provides good utility except that they had to be blasted on CD to keep Alac running which made their utility coincidental.

And Super Speed in itself is a want instead of a need. The Slow cancelation from doing it can be provided by Swiftness as well. No one ever needs Super Speed, it's a nice option and that's it as the necessary functions of Super Speed are also given by Swiftness, it's collateral, that's all. The only unique things it gives over Swiftness are a minor speed increase and the ability to speed up NPCs.

Most of those things sound good on paper, like the utility of Wells, and in practicality are severely hampered by the practical gameplay.

As a Herald, you can provide Quickness relatively painless while also saving the relevant skills for when they're needed rather than having to blast them on CD. 

It's the same situation as before just with other skills, nothing has effectively changed in how the gameplay works other than you having more freedom in when to use your heal Gyro, and even that is also a sort of loss since you have nothing that gives Quickness twice without doing a heavy investment and animation locking yourself

[Nimon.7840]

Sorry but: 

I used the pre patch gear yesterday without having alacrity.

And I played heal turret, bomb kit, blast gyro, Schredder gyro, mortar kit.

With two or the rotations you reach the boon time cap of 30 seconds. That means you can either take less boonduration now than pre patch or you can use less jump/blast finishers to keep up quickness with the same gear.

So how is scrapper without hammer not viable anymore? It "only" gives you 2 leap finishers every 10 seconds.

Just take more boondurations if you don't want to use hammer.

[The Boz.2038]

qScrapper after the patch feels like absolute doodoo. Not comfy, animation-locking is unwelcome.

[Nimon.7840]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

qScrapper after the patch feels like absolute doodoo. Not comfy, animation-locking is unwelcome.

Laughs in reaper dps build :D, that has an animation lock every 3 seconds while in shroud.

 

[The Boz.2038]

Just now, Nimon.7840 said:

Laughs in reaper dps build :D, that has an animation lock every 3 seconds while in shroud.

 

It's not "yeet me into the nether realm" animation lock that you can't interrupt. Nowhere close to the same.

[Sirvaleen.1379]

5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

It's not "yeet me into the nether realm" animation lock that you can't interrupt. Nowhere close to the same.

Tbh you actually can interrupt hammer3 by going in a kit and then weapon swapping - though if you're not fast enough by then you're probably already in the middle of the second leap 🙃

Personally I'm not a fan of any rotation using leap skills, but that's just my personal preference 🤷‍♂️

QScrapper is fine uptime-wise, more than that since it can now probably drop the few diviner pieces it was using.

The thing is.. it's a different gameplay. Like for AlacScepter, now the boon provider play almost exactly the same as the pure dps variant. You either like it or you don't 🤷‍♂️

[The Boz.2038]

3 minutes ago, Sirvaleen.1379 said:

Tbh you actually can interrupt hammer3

Irrelevant, because doing stuff like that means you can't react, say dodge, instantly. Not to mention that doing so would prevent you from pumping alac, and the skill becomes useless unless face-grating the enemy in that regard.

[Sirvaleen.1379]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Irrelevant, because doing stuff like that means you can't react, say dodge, instantly. Not to mention that doing so would prevent you from pumping alac, and the skill becomes useless unless face-grating the enemy in that regard.

I was just reacting to the "you can't interrupt" part which sounded more like you actually said can't and not shouldn't. Obviously interrupting that skill when the finishers are on the first and last leaps is not a good idea for boon uptime 🤷‍♂️

Not saying the skill is great, it's not. I've had a few weird detargetting on targets I was locked on (and that's why I don't like to use leaps in rotations) but you can interrupt the skill before you end up taking a plunge off a platform if you react fast enough. Is it still annoying ? YES. But it still works well with the new qScrapper by giving it 2 finishers on one skill with roughly 1s of evade to compensate the animlock. Is it great gameplay ? Well I dropped my Scrapper after that patch so my opinion is obvious. It doesn't make the new qScrapper bad at doing what it's supposed to though is all I'm saying.

[Raarsi.6798]

-Laughs in flamethrower scrapper because bad-

If anything, I think this thread reinforces the fact that quickness should be a self-only buff (if not outright removed from the game).