Regarding Alacrity & Quickness in a few Classes [Suggestions]

[shinkamalei.2574]

To devs(if you happen to read this),

First and foremost, let me say I am upset with some changes but I’m approaching this from how can it be fixed or re-approached.

Secondly, I think each class having alacrity or quickness is not a bad thing. But I think maybe really looking hard into class identities or looking at how players truly utilize these will help. Scourge giving alac with barrier is great, but it was turned into something convoluted… which we don’t need. Druids are spamming what makes them special just to upkeep alac. It also means they won’t be healing when its needed. Or immobilizing. Or giving stab. Or condi cleansing. It’s extremely limiting. (More classes down below)

Now this may mean a redo on skills or set of skills if you truly want to make it work. I think druid CA doesn’t work and the spirits were bad because you had to use so many. Which I believe you're also trying to avoid. The options are allow players to have one or two skills with a higher rate of boon application (either time or pulsing) so they are allowed to choose not to have to bring all of a single utility type or put it on something that is a no brainer and is always used for the class. The latter option however must be done in a way where the player shouldn't have to completely alter a playstyle simply to utilize.

Necro:

Spoiler

On to necromancer. I know you don’t want to a class to be overpowered but this class was PERFECT for learners. It helped get them up after seeing what killed them. It also gave them another chance. You’re asking scourges to rez slower because of… what? You’re afraid it’s going to be too strong? Bad groups will need that rez power, which also takes time away from shades and pulsing alacrity. Good groups will not need the rez power at all. It truly was fine as is.

You’ve limited the amount of regen to very small sources anyways so scourge healing isn’t going to be OP. Honestly, it felt like it needed it. Just some other source of healing. It’s part of what it was lacking as a healer. Speaking of, you also need protection and a source of stab/aegis. The aegis is covered, stab is a separate skill. But protection is quite low. It’s something to look at.

As for alacrity, many things need to change in order for it to work. The first thing is base duration. I know you want to utilize pulsing but that one could be changed back to what it was (it was fun btw) and return desert empowerment as well. It seems to me that you always want alacrity or quickness to be grand master traits but it doesn’t have to be unless that is core to how you want your classes. In which case, ones that are healer-based skills need not be in competition with them. I’ve seen it in multiplate occasions and it’s illogical. I am unsure if you simply don’t want role compression but that will not change.

Anyways, revert the 2^nd column’s changes and apply alacrity to Sand Savant. I go with this because placing all three individual ones is a pain. However if that is how you want the class played (unlike us getting to choose), then perhaps changing it from a big one into simply a cd reduction and increased area? Not as big as one big one, but something small like 60 increased radius. If you keep the single one though, know that that’s already a slight damage reduction as well as boon reduction due to a lack of concentration and expertise from sand sage. My guess is that is why you wish to keep the three shades.

Druid:

Spoiler

For druid, I can keep this succinct for the first bit. I have 80% BD on my druid. I can go higher and I didn’t have food. I used all of my abilities in CA randomly (no specific order or rotation) just to see. I literally could not even enter CA again before my alacrity was gone. Prior to changes, I used two glyphs. Perhaps you could give alacrity when you enter and exit CA as a secondary source while giving a primary source to a glyph. You don’t want it to be so easy that they don’t have to think about where and when to use it so perhaps limit the range. Or if you want it could be glyphs in general with a decent amount of alacrity on use (like 6-7 seconds) but as players will always minmax, this would allow players who want to run minimal builds to do so and players learning to take more glyphs. Having options makes players feel better about their gameplay. It may not always be optimized, but its how they want to play and is fun.

Herald:

Spoiler

Personally, I dislike herald changes but I know a lot will disagree with me because their dps skyrocketed. I did feel like I had to spam my abilities a little bit but I could choose which ones I let sit to give more of that boon before I consumed it. It felt a little like a “which boon needs the most attention?” Including for myself never needing to utilize the consume on Facet of Nature. I shouldn’t say never but rarely. Now, it feels more like I’m forced into swapping or consuming simply because if I don’t I run out of energy. DPS will say just swap legends but I don’t want to be forced into swapping to my other legend when my skills I need to activate are on Glint.

Warrior:

Spoiler

Again, I think I may get pushback on this because the DPS I know that are doing alac bladesworn are hitting… 29k+. But, I feel like either quickness or alacrity (personally I felt alacrity more) should’ve instead gone to Spellbreaker. It feels better. Not only lore wise (think Sands of Time since it was Path of Fire). Now I know that part of its identity is boon removal and how it reacts to it, so the only place I could see open would be the extra damage with dagger – Sun and Moon Style. I love wielding a dagger and healing for the damage I do.

However, if Magebane was moved there (it’s strong and I love it but if we could make that an activated skill instead… that would be even cooler and likely buff the class) then it would leave room. This could leave room for possibly dagger attacks on a boonless foe apply alacrity in xyz amount every xyz seconds. I’m not great with the math parts hence why most of the things I’ve suggested don’t have amounts.

If that’s not a great route and instead you could utilize on burst skills. You could also utilize based on amount of adrenaline spent. It could go on might application on self, which also is a positive for trying to build up might and taking traits that do that as well (I believe that’s strength line). If again that’s not great and you want to suggest more lines for players (although with boon application that does limit things unless the boons are in one of the minor lines), you could say on protection application. Which now comes from both the tactics line and self-giving protection in the defense line. A further on that defense line is that you could heal others around you with Adrenal Health too. That would work in favor of a heal spellbreaker.

Honestly these are the only ones I got to tonight because limited time. I enjoy Chrono changes. There are several classes I don’t play and can’t give suggestions. The only last comment I have is if you want every class to have a heal option as well, please focus on giving changes to the heals by shouts or mantra. I don’t mean HB. That one is still quite strong. But Heal Chrono and Heal Warrior’s shouts/mantras are rather weak. If they could be tweaked with either better base or a slightly better coefficient, then I think that would do well to start making them a more normalized choice in content. Same goes for the not having a healing trait competing with an alacrity/quickness trait.

To other players, I would love some theory crafters to help mess around with ideas or shoot your own idea of what you think traits could realistically change to for this to feel... better.

Edited June 29, 2023 by shinkamalei.2574

[shinkamalei.2574]

Adding on since I was too tired from yesterday:

Herald (cont):

Spoiler

Realized I didn't give a solution or something that could be tried. But perhaps consume skills give larger amounts of quickness if the F2(Facet of Nature) is active? Enough that you only need to use one at a time? Or if Facet of Nature is active, it could pulse quickness and you could combine that with current 6 upkeep points.... or perhaps you could apply stronger quickness if Facet of Nature is active while you have above 30 energy (essentially don't spam your skills) and if Facet of Nature is consumed it could burst quickness while it's on CD? This would also allow players to pulse quickness in other legends but have it be strictly kept to Herald. If energy upkeep is problematic (which I believe it is since I feel FORCED to swap legends even at times when it makes things worse), you could do the opposite where if you have above 30 energy, skills you use provide small amounts of quickness. Although, I feel like that my have a negative effect but it's an idea to throw out that isn't severely spammy and could utilize class features.

Scrapper:

Spoiler

While I do think utilizing blast finishers is a nice thing... this is not something that was taught from the beginning of teh game. There are so many people who don't even know what they do or why they're useful. You introduced it in EoD in that small area but I think doing this to a class requires a better foundation. Now, looking at all of the blasts it has available, the options are not great. Then you changed a rez ability that is needed to be used carefully into a blast finisher. This takes away skill and pushes that to be spammy. Compare this to other classes, it's ridiculous what you have to do in order to provide a boon others provide more... fluidly.

Even though I feel it needs a better foundation, perhaps allow your fields blasted or if a finisher is used on a field you placed, then it provides quickness. Now the hard thing is, everyone sets down their own fields and I believe the default is it targets your own. So, therein is a base problem. You could also inherently change the fields. You provide a lot of fields in game. It could be that your fields provide quickness. That would also help with some of the gyros because they move with you but it doesn't limit you to them. Or optionally adding fields onto more abilities like the toolbelt bulwark gyro could provide a light field so people it can help with condi cleanse. Also perhaps adding a field to shield or pistol... it's weird but that way people won't feel they need to take hammer for leaps and a field.

Edited June 29, 2023 by shinkamalei.2574
needed to change wording

[steezy.5238]

+1 to all of this, well thought out, maybe they should give you a job?

No mention of elementalist though?...

[Jski.6180]

For pve there just needs to be an alacrity and quickness bot-like-npc. For spvp and wvw it should never be perm.

[shinkamalei.2574]

2 hours ago, steezy.5238 said:

+1 to all of this, well thought out, maybe they should give you a job?

No mention of elementalist though?...

I think I'm not sure how I feel on elementalist yet. It's my main and... there are things from when they originally gave tempest alac that bug me still and the changes to cata... again, idk yet. I've played with them and it feels... ok. Not superb but cata not having to be in air to give quickness is nice even if it's a smaller amount of quickness. Honestly it feels like if we were able to gain energy while a sphere is in use, it would feel easier. Like I am saving my multi-hit abilities for when a sphere is not active. But... not sure 100% if that would make it OP or not.

As for tempest... I haven't had a chance to be on a dps of it to see. My healer's alac feels nice and it has been 2 iterations so it feels... better than it did. I originally never wanted it on overloads but I understand they want it to be unique to the class. So... not much there to change lol

And I would be satisfied with being able to playtest the game. xD 

[shinkamalei.2574]

1 hour ago, Jski.6180 said:

For pve there just needs to be an alacrity and quickness bot-like-npc. For spvp and wvw it should never be perm.

One of the things I suspect is because they are not making more elites (afaik) so they're adding in to existing specs. It also helps to ensure there's some mitigation on power creep in instanced content. Well that's how it's supposed to happen but there are some that are hitting reallllly hard rn. But a bot would be hilarious to see.

Edited June 29, 2023 by shinkamalei.2574

[Jski.6180]

9 hours ago, shinkamalei.2574 said:

One of the things I suspect is because they are not making more elites (afaik) so they're adding in to existing specs. It also helps to ensure there's some mitigation on power creep in instanced content. Well that's how it's supposed to happen but there are some that are hitting reallllly hard rn. But a bot would be hilarious to see.

Its nothing new to GW that was a thing in GW1 though that was more for solo content.

[mizaru.1385]

Remove these 2 boons or make them permanent on group......Stop balancing the game around the 2 buffs....

[shinkamalei.2574]

16 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

Its nothing new to GW that was a thing in GW1 though that was more for solo content.

if they introduced more ways to do solo content or things for solo players, i could see it being a thing then. it would make sense

[shinkamalei.2574]

14 hours ago, mizaru.1385 said:

Remove these 2 boons or make them permanent on group......Stop balancing the game around the 2 buffs....

I doubt that will ever happen. They're too integral and some actually take skill... or did. But I think they should take longer to add them in and test them before adding them into professions that weren't built nor meant for it originally.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

On 6/29/2023 at 11:57 AM, mizaru.1385 said:

Remove these 2 boons or make them permanent on group......Stop balancing the game around the 2 buffs....

This I can get behind. The fact that no group can be built without these two boons these days, and if you can't provide 100% uptime all the time, even before these changes, made you unwanted as a class. The one thing Scourge had was their cheesy res and now that's gone.

Right now, Herald's only claim to fame is now 100% uptime on quickness, but our minimal boons we provided before just went straight into the crapper. We lose utility to do one thing now. I mean I can tank hella hard on my herald but it's stupid now I don't do anything else. Being a healer took a sucker punch as well. I am required to be burning my energy at a bare minim rate in order to do this which puts a damper on DPS to begin with, or constant stance swapping. And once again, prime facets are put back on CD instead of providing benefits.

Scrapper... oh boy. Enacting two powers to do the same thing as most other classes that can just push one button. It isn't about flow either, because fields in most quick DPS builds are not in the standard rotation never mind rocket charge is not used except for mobility.

And don't get me started on the boon king provided of firebrand. Why is firebrand and mechanist being shoved down our throats with these low effort boon buffers while the other boon classes are having to jump through hoops?

Edited June 30, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[shinkamalei.2574]

2 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Right now, Herald's only claim to fame is now 100% uptime on quickness, but our minimal boons we provided before just went straight into the crapper. We lose utility to do one thing now. I mean I can tank hella hard on my herald but it's stupid now I don't do anything else. Being a healer took a sucker punch as well. I am required to be burning my energy at a bare minim rate in order to do this which puts a damper on DPS to begin with, or constant stance swapping. And once again, prime facets are put back on CD instead of providing benefits.

This is what I'm having trouble with. It feels.... weird with energy and my healing does feel like its knocked over. I still have ventari and such, but it... idk. I'm just waking up and my words suck lol

2 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Scrapper... oh boy. Enacting two powers to do the same thing as most other classes that can just push one button. It isn't about flow either, because fields in most quick DPS builds are not in the standard rotation never mind rocket charge is not used except for mobility.

That's a really good point I didn't even think about is what is normal in a standard rotation. Although, it is fine to change up what is normal... but I think the point is to ensure that people have freedom so... not too sure what they'll do.

2 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

And don't get me started on the boon king provided of firebrand. Why is firebrand and mechanist being shoved down our throats with these low effort boon buffers while the other boon classes are having to jump through hoops?

lol... don't talk about their golden child. but yes, i've wondered the same. I think part of it is because they were built with boons in mind and other classes were not. Truly. Like... a lot of these classes were really cool before putting boons in. and I understand needing to balance around that but it should be "xyz gives x seconds of quickness that you need xyz% BD to maintain". simple and easy. There are ways to add to it - you can have something pulse quickness. Secondary activations can give a burst or perhaps the initial activation is a burst. You could do it when you give xyz boon. Etc etc etc. More ways than that too.

I think the hard part is moving away from the spam skills type and it seems they don't want to give it to us so easily... which would allow for the diversity they want.