Ranger pistol weaon spec

[Meirleach.2163]

I would like tonsee a ranger pistol and even rifel weapon spec now that the weapons will be available across the board.

But still all the ranger gets is daggers. Ofcourse a dagger wil be cool, but why not pistol. Ranger is in basic an ranged fighter. Even axes are thrown. So why not some extra ranged weapons.

Why? Because it will look cool. Dual pistol (with mini crossbow skin).

Please Anet. Give us Rangers some pistols.

 

[Beddo.1907]

Currently Ranger will receive main and off hand Maces. Pistols might happen at some point, but not any time soon.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

I feel like ranger pistol would be really redundant.

 

We have mainhand and offhand axe that fills similar enough niches to pistols. We don't exactly need another ranged mainhand (shortbow and longbow are both very strong 2hs and axe is a strong 1h)

 

Same with rifle, but as a 2h weapon. What might rifle provide that isn't relatively redundant? We have longbow for power, and shortbow would either overshadow or be overshadowed by it if it were condi.

 

Id rather see a more supportive scepter, focus, or shield, just for that build variety. Mace might even be somewhat supportive, similar to how mechanist mace is.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Meirleach.2163 said:

I would like tonsee a ranger pistol and even rifel weapon spec now that the weapons will be available across the board.

But still all the ranger gets is daggers. Ofcourse a dagger wil be cool, but why not pistol. Ranger is in basic an ranged fighter. Even axes are thrown. So why not some extra ranged weapons.

Why? Because it will look cool. Dual pistol (with mini crossbow skin).

Please Anet. Give us Rangers some pistols.

 

Think you may be lost..Thief forum is here:

Thief - Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Beddo.1907]

4 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

I feel like ranger pistol would be really redundant.

 

We have mainhand and offhand axe that fills similar enough niches to pistols. We don't exactly need another ranged mainhand (shortbow and longbow are both very strong 2hs and axe is a strong 1h)

 

Same with rifle, but as a 2h weapon. What might rifle provide that isn't relatively redundant? We have longbow for power, and shortbow would either overshadow or be overshadowed by it if it were condi.

 

Id rather see a more supportive scepter, focus, or shield, just for that build variety. Mace might even be somewhat supportive, similar to how mechanist mace is.

If there is any reason against it, it's probably the fact that ranger only has projectile range skills (except for staff) and barely any ground targets.
Pistols would probably come with the same issue.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

38 minutes ago, Beddo.1907 said:

If there is any reason against it, it's probably the fact that ranger only has projectile range skills (except for staff) and barely any ground targets.
Pistols would probably come with the same issue.

I feel like the bigger issue is just redundancy- why add another weapon that's fairly similar to existing options? That's not really all that fun- these two weapons, rifle and pistol, would either overshadow or be overshadowed by pre existing weapons.

 

Give us something that isn't as comparable to other weapons. Mace, at it's core, assuming it's like warrior mace, will be relatively unique in Ranger's kit- a 1 handed both hands CC weapon, that you can pair with offhand axe, dagger, torch, or warhorn, or mainhand sword, axe, and dagger. The only other comparable weapon is hammer, but hammer is 2 handed.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

I feel like ranger pistol would be really redundant.

Other classes have more ranged options than Ranger, which is silly.

They need to add another ranged option for Ranger, not melee.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

6 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Other classes have more ranged options than Ranger, which is silly.

They need to add another ranged option for Ranger, not melee.

"Ranger" doesn't mean ranged. Ranger means they are someone who keeps a natural landscape, often forested or countryside in modern times.

 

Plus, Ranger has about the same amount of ranged weapons as some others, and more than average (not counting weapons below 900 range, as those are closer to melee than to true ranged imo). Mainhand axe (and axe 4) is 900 range, longbow is 1500, shortbow is 900, and staff is 1200. A 5th comes in with harpoon gun, tying again with another class if counting underwater for both. 6 if you count main and offhand weapons seperate, which I'm inclined to do as you could technically make something similar to offhand axe and have it be a unique weapon. Torch comes in at number 7, with torch 4 being 1,200 range.

 

Tying for land and water based ranged weaponry is actually Necromancer. 900 on axe, pistol, and scepter, 1200 for staff and trident. 4 for land, 5 including underwater. 6 is focus, at 1,200 range. 7 is torch, with Harrowing Wave at 900.

 

Then, we have Mesmer, with again 7. Dagger (1,200), Focus (1,200 on one skill), staff (1,200), scepter (900), greatsword (1,200), and shield (900). Trident gives 7 at 1,200.

 

Next is Thief, with 6 ranged weapons. Rifle (12-1500 depending on kneel), pistol/pistol (900 each), shortbow (900), and scepter (900). Harpoon gun is your underwater 6th at 1200.

 

Contrary to your belief, Ranger doesn't have any less ranged weapons than any other profession. Counting only mainhands and 2 handeds, it's still tied with necro and mesmer, and ranger most definitely doesn't need to be the only profession with ranged weaponry. If you drop weapons with only one ranged skill in the offhand, ranger's still got plenty.

 

I'd rather get something new, that opens a new playstyle for ranger, rather than get something redundant and have it be either used because it's better than the other option or not used because it's worse.

 

Mace actually has some relatively unique side effects to skills, such as barrier application and an odd amount of blocks for a stick with a heavy chunk on the end. Boon application, power damage, condi damage, CC, healing, barrier, mace could literally go anywhere, and despite the potential worst case being another pair of CC weapons, I'm glad Ranger has a chance to get a bit of an oddball weapon.

[Ehecatl.9172]

The only issue with Rifle is it'd be difficult to make meaningfully different from Longbow. Both are traditionally long ranged Strike damage weapons. Though personally, I think it could be done if you got a bit creative with it.

I've seen people suggest Ranger Rifle could be a condi weapon, using the rifle as a tranq gun. That is a pretty cool idea and would give us a long-range condi option we don't currently have.

Personally, I think it'd be cool as a multi-range skirmishing-style weapon. Make it sort of the inverse of the longbow. Longbow wants to keep the enemy at maximum range. Maybe Rifle wants to get the enemy into a close range from a distance.

Auto Attack: 1,200 range, but does more damage the closer the enemy is.
Number 2: A melee buttstroke blow that causes Daze and does solid damage.
Number 3: A forward leap that shoots the enemy and applies Slow.
Number 4: Toss a bear trap somewhere in a shortish range of you that immobilizes the target when they step on it.
Number 5: A long-range, high-damage shot to get their attention or finish a fleeing enemy. The bullet could be guided by a bird spirit to follow the target.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

"Ranger" doesn't mean ranged. Ranger means they are someone who keeps a natural landscape, often forested or countryside in modern times.

 

Plus, Ranger has about the same amount of ranged weapons as some others, and more than average

That's not really the point my dude.

The point is that half the Ranger's traits are designed around ranged weapon play specifically.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's not really the point my dude.

The point is that half the Ranger's traits are designed around ranged weapon play specifically.

Marksmanship - 2 traits out of 12 (Farsighted and Lead the Wind)

Skirmishing - 1 trait out of 12 (Light on Your Feet)

Wilderness Survival - 0 out of 12

Nature Magic - Either 0 out of 12 or 1 if you count Warhorn as 'ranged' (Windborne Notes)

Beastmastery - 1 out of 12 (Honed Axes)

Druid - 0 out of 12 (used to be 1 when we had Primal Echoes because of Staff CDs)

Soulbeast - 0 out of 12 (considering the main spec weapon is a dagger)

Untamed - 0 out of 12 (considering the main spec weapon is a hammer) 

We'll count Warhorn as ranged and say 5 traits out of...96.  Which is ~5.2%.  

Even with the weapons we have more melee than ranged--Axe, LB, SB, and Staff are ranged while GS, Hammer, Dagger (both MH and OH), and Sword are melee.  Warhorn counts as both but is most useful in or near melee range, same with OH axe and Torch. 

When we get maces in a month or two it will tip the scales fully in melee favor.  

This is why 'Ranger = Ranged' makes zero sense.  

Also why I pointed OP to the thief forum as P/P thief and DE in general are the exact style they seem to be after.  

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

23 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Marksmanship - 2 traits out of 12 (Farsighted and Lead the Wind)

Skirmishing - 1 trait out of 12 (Light on Your Feet)

Wilderness Survival - 0 out of 12

Nature Magic - Either 0 out of 12 or 1 if you count Warhorn as 'ranged' (Windborne Notes)

Beastmastery - 1 out of 12 (Honed Axes)

Druid - 0 out of 12 (used to be 1 when we had Primal Echoes because of Staff CDs)

Soulbeast - 0 out of 12 (considering the main spec weapon is a dagger)

Untamed - 0 out of 12 (considering the main spec weapon is a hammer) 

We'll count Warhorn as ranged and say 5 traits out of...96.  Which is ~5.2%.  

Even with the weapons we have more melee than ranged--Axe, LB, SB, and Staff are ranged while GS, Hammer, Dagger (both MH and OH), and Sword are melee.  Warhorn counts as both but is most useful in or near melee range, same with OH axe and Torch. 

When we get maces in a month or two it will tip the scales fully in melee favor.  

This is why 'Ranger = Ranged' makes zero sense.  

Also why I pointed OP to the thief forum as P/P thief and DE in general are the exact style they seem to be after.  

You're looking at it lamenly. Some of those traits may technically work with melee, but they need ranged weapons to function. In fact, the class as a whole needs the use of a ranged weapon to function. Its entire design hinges on the use of ranged weapons. Trying to run full melee on a Ranger has never worked. We don't need another flop of a double mace-mace melee side that will never get used "just like dagger" "just like hammer". Even Druid Staff is used more than those two added melee weapons. Mace-made will likely be the same, just another mediocre melee weapon set added to Ranger that won't be useful in competitive and likely won't be used in pve either.

If they wanted to seriously implement some new play styles, they'd add a Rifle or Pistol main hand. It's these kinds of ranged options that always is the tip of spear of a Ranger build that absolutely directs the entire flow of what the build archetype does & feels like to play.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 minute ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You're looking at it lamenly. Some of those traits may technically work with melee, but they need ranged weapons to function. In fact, the class as a whole needs the use of a ranged weapon to function. Its entire design hinges on the use of ranged weapons. Trying to run full melee on a Ranger has never worked. We don't need another flop of a double mace-mace melee side that will never get used "just like dagger" "just like hammer". Even Druid Staff is used more than those two added melee weapons. Mace-made will likely be the same, just another mediocre melee weapon set added to Ranger that won't be useful in competitive and likely won't be used in pve either.

If they wanted to seriously implement some new play styles, they'd add a Rifle or Pistol main hand. It's these kinds of ranged options that always is the tip of spear of a Ranger build that absolutely directs the entire flow of what the build archetype does & feels like to play.

From the lack of counter-examples here, I think you mean literally correct instead of lamenly.  

Anyway, you like the sPvP forum--apparently you missed earlier in the year when Boyce was running Hammer/GS all melee Untamed in sPvP? And outside of that ran LB/GS teleburst untamed which---had melee burst with GS?

That's all possible because none of the traits outside the listed ones need range to function--because most of them revolve around self-boons to be tankier in melee.  Even the literal ranged ones like SB and Axe half function in near melee via poison volley and split blade.

In fact, with all the projectile denial atm, all melee is actually a very viable option, so you don't get reflected to death.  Literally you know this from the pages upon pages of cata  / ele salt going on right now.

Leaved the ranged fighting to thieves.  They have way, way more disengage to pull it off (i.e. stealth access) and literal entire class mechanics around ranged like DE's marked. 

Which actually come to think of it, all of Ranger's class mechanics favor melee range as well (Druid CA form for healing / boon share and 3/5 of the CA form skills being melee range, Soulbeast merge skills putting you in melee like smoke assault, and literally all of Untamed being designed as bruiser).  

Hell, CmC's favorite pet in Drake is also melee with Tail Swipe combos...

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

18 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

From the lack of counter-examples here, I think you mean literally correct instead of lamenly. 

No, what I meant is that you are not understanding a great many things about how Ranger actually plays, and I'm not going to write a thesis around it to explain it to you.

18 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

apparently you missed earlier in the year when Boyce was running Hammer/GS all melee Untamed in sPvP?

Boyce is a win trader. Stop using players like this to example the value of builds.

18 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

That's all possible because none of the traits outside the listed ones need range to function

This is what I mean, that's simply not true. Although technically true, it is not functionally true. A good example would be trying to full melee a Spellbreaker or a Bladesworn or Condi Heralds lately. You'll get outbrawled very quickly. The Ranger needs ranged options to be able to gain reprieve from melee pressure while kiting up and around elevations, ect ect, vs. some of these archetypes that are very powerful in melee range.

Arguing about it is silly. Any veteran Ranger main knows exactly what I'm talking about here. The Ranger class is not a brawler. You get absolutely smashed by things like a Tool Holo unless all melee Ranger is literally twice as skilled as the Tool Holo.

18 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

In fact, with all the projectile denial atm, all melee is actually a very viable option

But it's not, for the reasons I've already listed. When you take full melee, there are other things that become impossible to deal with, and you still aren't going to beat a Cata just because you have melee. It's still in the Ranger's best options to keep a ranged side so it doesn't kitten itself vs. everything else in the game that isn't an Ele.

18 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Leaved the ranged fighting to thieves.

lol what

no

18 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Which actually come to think of it, all of Ranger's class mechanics favor melee range as well (Druid CA form for healing / boon share and 3/5 of the CA form skills being melee range, Soulbeast merge skills putting you in melee like smoke assault, and literally all of Untamed being designed as bruiser)

lol no

There is so much about the class Ranger that you are not understanding.

It's w/e man. Cheers.

 

Edited July 6, 2023 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's w/e man. Cheers.

Basically, sums up your entire 'argument' here.  

I also forgot about the win-trader paranoia--that's probably best left for the sPvP forum though 😂.

But please, for everyone's sake stop capping--I'm not actually even sure why you are trolling at this point.  

Playing Sw/Axe + Staff Druid on your Twitch and coming in here acting like melee ranger isn't viable.  Then later Axe/Torch + Staff condi (and for some reason dueling a slb on a node with Glyph of Stars instead of supporting)--I dunno man, that play seems mid-gold at best; something about throwing stones in glass houses with all your 'veteran Ranger main' talk.  

But regardless, as veterans, we have the responsibility to be honest--Rifle or P/P ranger would be a very wrong direction for the class.  

To sum it up:

9 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Other classes have more ranged options than Ranger, which is silly.

They need to add another ranged option for Ranger, not melee.

There's reasons Ranger has more melee (or near melee) weapons than straight up max-distance 1200-1500 ranged ones...lol.   

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Basically, sums up your entire 'argument' here.

I feel like you're some kind of dev behind a normal looking account, looking for ways to make people think mace/mace on Ranger is going to be cool.

You can attack me all you want but it's all silly. Clearly you can see that not a single person in the Ranger subforum is excited about mace/mace.

I've explained to you the reasons why no one is excited about mace/mace. Go ahead and pretend that nothing I've said holds value. It's w/e man.

Nevertheless, commercializing garbage and selling it to people is not an easy thing to do. Good luck with that.

[kharmin.7683]

Yeah, as a ranger main I am so not excited about mace/mace when so many better options have been suggested around here for years.

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

29 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Yeah, as a ranger main I am so not excited about mace/mace when so many better options have been suggested around here for years.

What suggestions have actually been better?

 

Even when taking all the "worst" parts of other maces, I feel we are likely to have a block of some sort. In addition, we may get more combo fields on our weapon skills, which could be very good depending on the intended use case of the weapon. Boon application is a reasonable assumption as well, as is CC. Barrier is a potential option if boons like protection aren't there.

 

Ranger needs more direct boon application, as druid carried might (which is currently now gone, as druid cannot upkeep 25 might like it was pre patch), and they aren't fitting boons onto pets well. Mace could very well be a supportive tool in a similar vein as Guardian or Mechanist Mace (healing and boons or boons and barrier, or maybe healing and barrier or just a ton of boons).

 

What would rifle actually provide for ranger? What would pistol/pistol? Genuinely, what would they uniquely provide that wouldn't overshadow or be overshadowed by our other weapons?

[Ehecatl.9172]

6 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Ranger needs more direct boon application, as druid carried might (which is currently now gone, as druid cannot upkeep 25 might like it was pre patch), and they aren't fitting boons onto pets well. Mace could very well be a supportive tool in a similar vein as Guardian or Mechanist Mace (healing and boons or boons and barrier, or maybe healing and barrier or just a ton of boons).

 

What would rifle actually provide for ranger? What would pistol/pistol? Genuinely, what would they uniquely provide that wouldn't overshadow or be overshadowed by our other weapons?

To be fair, any weapon can pretty much do anything at this point. One of the things I find charming about Anet's weapon design is how willing they are to break a mold. While mace COULD be a support tool it's a little weird we'd be getting maces for that role instead of something like a scepter, which isn't to say you're wrong in your theory. Just that we can't know that a ranger rifle or pistol set wouldn't also solve those problems.

A ranger's rifle could have a bunch of boon generation. Maybe themed around the sound of the gunshot similar to how blowing a warhorn provides boons. A big bang and then everyone gets Might. Swinging it in a melee strike could grant Fury. Swiftness is easy to excuse on any ranged weapon, but you could argue for Rifle having a block that grants Aegis or something fairly easily too.

Pistols could have a cowboy theme and have a bunch of fancy quick shots that inspire allies with boons or buff up the pet with Boons that can be transferred back to the ranger. A quickdraw that provides Quickness or Superpseed is a no-brainer. Rapid unloading to provide Might or Fury makes sense.

Ranger could use more Boon stripping too, and I think a firearm would be extremely thematic for that sort of thing as well.

At the end of the day, any of these weapons could do almost anything. Rifle could be a mid-range AoE weapon based on a shotgun with lots of scatter shots and melee butt-strokes for all we know.

[Kaizz.7306]

Anet said a decade ago they have no intention of ever giving Rangers gunpowder weapons. No rifles or Pistols, because they don't want them seen as "hunters", but as wardens. Now, ANet has changed their mind on stuff before, but I don't think we'll see them change on that front anytime soon.

[Meirleach.2163]

On 7/6/2023 at 11:35 PM, Kaizz.7306 said:

Anet said a decade ago they have no intention of ever giving Rangers gunpowder weapons. No rifles or Pistols, because they don't want them seen as "hunters", but as wardens. Now, ANet has changed their mind on stuff before, but I don't think we'll see them change on that front anytime soon.

Yeah but the crossbow (have it on my thief) is not a "gunpowder" pistol.