Heal Builds?

[MilkyTea.9042]

Are there any heal builds for mesmer? Been interested in giving it a whirl but not sure where to start.

[Kulvar.1239]

The short answer is no. Theoretically you could do a chrono heal, but it's impractical to play, is not great at healing, and do not have a great boon coverage.

[Mell.4873]

It's kind of a yes and no answer. Can you heal with Mesmer yes but is is effective no not really. Chronomancer is you best bet and with recent changes it has made it better since you no longer need to run Wells or Shatter builds.

You main method of healing will always be Illusionary Inspiration which with enough healing power should be fine but if you need some burst healing you have two options, one is Wells and the other is Mantras. 

Well are impossible to aim but Mantra healing prevents you from picking Medic's Feedback which is an amazing resurrection tool. For me I pick Wells and just use Well of Eternity(heal) and Well of Precognition. 

They can be hard to aim but they are Ranged so you can throw them just on the dying people and hope they stay inside it. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Voyant.1327]

The community will blindly tell you no a thousand times. They get worse each patch cycle as the balance team has no knowledge of Mesmer. 

But I've run a Virt with Heals since the spec came out. If you build for uptime, concentration, you can still kick out an effective 1.5 hps for party, it used to be much higher but they keep screwing up the passives with each patch.

You peak at around 34k dps versus mid 40ks in current meta but you can keep your party up with relative ease. Even creates a burst heal effect if you're good at spending your blades at the right time while moving in position to player who needs it. (I play with non-stack players, as we find the holding hands method boring. So I'm used to weaving positionally.) 

But yes it is entirely possible, it just doesn't qualify as meta or posted on Snowcrows so many will say it doesn't exist.

They might be trying to remove creativity and customization from the game but its still here for now. 

[Roadkizzle.2157]

47 minutes ago, Voyant.1327 said:

The community will blindly tell you no a thousand times. They get worse each patch cycle as the balance team has no knowledge of Mesmer. 

But I've run a Virt with Heals since the spec came out. If you build for uptime, concentration, you can still kick out an effective 1.5 hps for party, it used to be much higher but they keep screwing up the passives with each patch.

You peak at around 34k dps versus mid 40ks in current meta but you can keep your party up with relative ease. Even creates a burst heal effect if you're good at spending your blades at the right time while moving in position to player who needs it. (I play with non-stack players, as we find the holding hands method boring. So I'm used to weaving positionally.) 

But yes it is entirely possible, it just doesn't qualify as meta or posted on Snowcrows so many will say it doesn't exist.

They might be trying to remove creativity and customization from the game but its still here for now. 

How do you build it?

Primarily using the heal on Illusions? Or something else?

What gear do you use? 

[Kulvar.1239]

5 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

The community will blindly tell you no a thousand times. They get worse each patch cycle as the balance team has no knowledge of Mesmer. 

But I've run a Virt with Heals since the spec came out. If you build for uptime, concentration, you can still kick out an effective 1.5 hps for party, it used to be much higher but they keep screwing up the passives with each patch.

You peak at around 34k dps versus mid 40ks in current meta but you can keep your party up with relative ease. Even creates a burst heal effect if you're good at spending your blades at the right time while moving in position to player who needs it. (I play with non-stack players, as we find the holding hands method boring. So I'm used to weaving positionally.) 

But yes it is entirely possible, it just doesn't qualify as meta or posted on Snowcrows so many will say it doesn't exist.

They might be trying to remove creativity and customization from the game but its still here for now. 

It doesn't exist because a healer must provide boons, including Alacrity or Quickness.

Virtuoso is not meant to be a healer and merely having some party healing do not qualify as a healer build.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

Yes. I had thought of:

Inspiration: 1,2,2

Dueling: 1, 3,1

Virtuoso: 3,2,3

With either Marshalls or Celestial gear.

Inspiration to provide group healing on Dagger creation and shatters. But I thought about the glamor trait instead of the shatter heal to go with Medics Feedback.

Dueling because Fury is needed for the Crit rate.

The Marshall or Celestial is to get Healing Power while keeping enough Precision to get 100% crit with Fury.

I hadn't considered this to be able to be an actual healer because it doesn't provide boons and it is not able to burst the heals due to not having a weapon or actual healing mechanic. But I thought it could reduce the pressure on healers or at least increase the level of content before you'll need to bring in a dedicated healer..

 

 

[Mell.4873]

12 hours ago, Voyant.1327 said:

The community will blindly tell you no a thousand times. They get worse each patch cycle as the balance team has no knowledge of Mesmer. 

But I've run a Virt with Heals since the spec came out. If you build for uptime, concentration, you can still kick out an effective 1.5 hps for party, it used to be much higher but they keep screwing up the passives with each patch.

You peak at around 34k dps versus mid 40ks in current meta but you can keep your party up with relative ease. Even creates a burst heal effect if you're good at spending your blades at the right time while moving in position to player who needs it. (I play with non-stack players, as we find the holding hands method boring. So I'm used to weaving positionally.) 

But yes it is entirely possible, it just doesn't qualify as meta or posted on Snowcrows so many will say it doesn't exist.

They might be trying to remove creativity and customization from the game but its still here for now. 

100% agree so much i'll share some tips for the Author

6 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Yes. I had thought of:

Inspiration: 1,2,2

Dueling: 1, 3,1

Virtuoso: 3,2,3

With either Marshalls or Celestial gear.

Inspiration to provide group healing on Dagger creation and shatters. But I thought about the glamor trait instead of the shatter heal to go with Medics Feedback.

Dueling because Fury is needed for the Crit rate.

The Marshall or Celestial is to get Healing Power while keeping enough Precision to get 100% crit with Fury.

I hadn't considered this to be able to be an actual healer because it doesn't provide boons and it is not able to burst the heals due to not having a weapon or actual healing mechanic. But I thought it could reduce the pressure on healers or at least increase the level of content before you'll need to bring in a dedicated healer..

 

 

If you plan on using Virtuoso as an off-healer same logic applies to that of current Chronomancier with Illusionary Inspiration but it's on steroids.
Now instead of using other things like Mantras for burst healing you have it all built in as part of the Condition Bleed kit. 

1: All bleed stacks create blades and can be increased or decreased based on skills. Pistol 4, Rain of Swords, Thousand Cuts can all be used to burst heal, while normal auto attacks can be used for simple heals
2: Signets can really bump your DPS and sustain healing. Signet of the Ether and Signet of Illusions can extend the number of Phantasm (via bleed stacks) and shatters you can be used again over a long fight.
3: Blade Renewal is a hidden gem being able to produce a self-invulnerability while giving you 5 blade charges instantly triggering Illusionary Inspiration five times.

 

In terms of gear, I would just run full Condition DPS Virtuoso and just eat healing power Food.
Medic's Feedback is bang on in terms of making this combo work.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Kulvar.1239 said:

It doesn't exist because a healer must provide boons, including Alacrity or Quickness.

Virtuoso is not meant to be a healer and merely having some party healing do not qualify as a healer build.

It does exist and I bring into Strikes/Raids all the time. Sometimes with permission other times I switch to it halfway if people are dying too much. We have a lot more DPS Alacrity and Quickness so it makes sense you can bring this too.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Varis.5467]

On 7/16/2023 at 6:38 PM, Parsleysoda.9031 said:

Are there any heal builds for mesmer? Been interested in giving it a whirl but not sure where to start.

Let's trim the fat. 

There is no heal build for the mesmer - the mesmer is not a healer. 

Having some avenues of group heal DOES NOT make a class a functional healer. 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Varis.5467

[Voyant.1327]

On 7/16/2023 at 5:09 PM, Kulvar.1239 said:

It doesn't exist because a healer must provide boons, including Alacrity or Quickness.

Virtuoso is not meant to be a healer and merely having some party healing do not qualify as a healer build.

Parties can build however they want. If the group splits what they bring they don't have to conform to Meta philosophies. This is essentially the point to diversity in builds.

In my groups I was responsible for healing & fury, quickness & alacrity were provided from other players. We each took one support aspect and incorporated it. 

When your "healers/support" are at least 25k dps you can effectively do things a lot easier. Versus having essentially dead weight from my perspective. Plus having groups designed around not having to stack is so much more fun to play lol. 

Just because something isn't the norm doesn't mean its not effective. Closed minded perspectives have always been this community's detriment. And while the balance team seems adamant on killing diversity it does still exist in the game. 

(And my bad Roadkizzle, I didn't see your questions. I don't post build information due to the way you see the replies already going. Feel free to add me in game & if you see me on I'll work with you.)

Edited July 19, 2023 by Voyant.1327

[SkinnyT.5382]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:22 PM, Voyant.1327 said:

...Just because something isn't the norm doesn't mean its not effective. Closed minded perspectives have always been this community's detriment. And while the balance team seems adamant on killing diversity it does still exist in the game...

 

This is it right here. ^

I have a Mesmer heal build myself, and have used it on groups that were dying too much, and people would still argue that it wasn't helping, despite the fact that they went from lasting 3 min to all of a sudden lasting and completing full fights.

It doesn't have as much healing output as say and Ele or ranger or Guardian, since we don't have direct healing skills, but you can still heal and support a team. My build used wells and healing on clone creation.

[Ellon.4316]

Mesmer can heal a lot, the problem is the healing is delayed and all our healing is in a small radius (wells are 240 which is reaper-melee range). The access to protection is practically none-existent so we also need to heal for 33% more then for example firebrand. Sure when it comes to raw numbers mesmer can heal for the same amount as firebrand and even out-heal it.

But hps is far from the complete picture, for example power deadeye could do 44K dps before the last balance patch with condi-virtuoso sitting at 38K. Yet everyone ran condi-virtuoso because it was more consistent. With healing this is the same, it’s not just about the raw healing but about the how well you can keep people alive. Firebrand for example is just stronger in that regard, it has good access to protection so it can heal 33% less than mesmer and still be just as effective, their heals are also instant or more instant then the 3 second delay mesmer has and firebrand heals in a way larger area. In short firebrand is just more consistent than mesmer.

I’m not saying you can’t clear content with heal-mesmer, more that when a newer player is looking for a heal build mesmer would be one of the last specs I would suggest. It’s a guarantee for a bad time if you don’t fully grok all the limitations. 

Side note: When talking about heal-virtuoso also know that illusionary inspiration doesn’t trigger when at 5 blades. Sure you can stock blades fast but your healing is limited by the cooldown on your shatters. This also means phantasms only heal once instead of twice when at 5 blades.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 hour ago, Ellon.4316 said:

Mesmer can heal a lot, the problem is the healing is delayed and all our healing is in a small radius (wells are 240 which is reaper-melee range). The access to protection is practically none-existent so we also need to heal for 33% more then for example firebrand. Sure when it comes to raw numbers mesmer can heal for the same amount as firebrand and even out-heal it.

But hps is far from the complete picture, for example power deadeye could do 44K dps before the last balance patch with condi-virtuoso sitting at 38K. Yet everyone ran condi-virtuoso because it was more consistent. With healing this is the same, it’s not just about the raw healing but about the how well you can keep people alive. Firebrand for example is just stronger in that regard, it has good access to protection so it can heal 33% less than mesmer and still be just as effective, their heals are also instant or more instant then the 3 second delay mesmer has and firebrand heals in a way larger area. In short firebrand is just more consistent than mesmer.

I’m not saying you can’t clear content with heal-mesmer, more that when a newer player is looking for a heal build mesmer would be one of the last specs I would suggest. It’s a guarantee for a bad time if you don’t fully grok all the limitations. 

Side note: When talking about heal-virtuoso also know that illusionary inspiration doesn’t trigger when at 5 blades. Sure you can stock blades fast but your healing is limited by the cooldown on your shatters. This also means phantasms only heal once instead of twice when at 5 blades.

Exactly. A Mesmer may be able to spec the healing trait and make it through some content that you were struggling. But that doesn't make it a Healer. 

With little access to Protection, no Regeneration, instant useful heals, and more it just does not cut it for a healing build.

Edit: I was wondering if that was the case with the Virtuoso. I figured it must be when I was trying it out on my Virt.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Roadkizzle.2157

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Ellon.4316 said:

Mesmer can heal a lot, the problem is the healing is delayed and all our healing is in a small radius (wells are 240 which is reaper-melee range). The access to protection is practically none-existent so we also need to heal for 33% more then for example firebrand. Sure when it comes to raw numbers mesmer can heal for the same amount as firebrand and even out-heal it.

But hps is far from the complete picture, for example power deadeye could do 44K dps before the last balance patch with condi-virtuoso sitting at 38K. Yet everyone ran condi-virtuoso because it was more consistent. With healing this is the same, it’s not just about the raw healing but about the how well you can keep people alive. Firebrand for example is just stronger in that regard, it has good access to protection so it can heal 33% less than mesmer and still be just as effective, their heals are also instant or more instant then the 3 second delay mesmer has and firebrand heals in a way larger area. In short firebrand is just more consistent than mesmer.

I’m not saying you can’t clear content with heal-mesmer, more that when a newer player is looking for a heal build mesmer would be one of the last specs I would suggest. It’s a guarantee for a bad time if you don’t fully grok all the limitations. 

Side note: When talking about heal-virtuoso also know that illusionary inspiration doesn’t trigger when at 5 blades. Sure you can stock blades fast but your healing is limited by the cooldown on your shatters. This also means phantasms only heal once instead of twice when at 5 blades.

You can run really high protection uptime about the same as Guardian with Off-hand Shield + traited Signet of Inspiration. Its only really viable in Raids/Strikes where you can stack more often but i would say that is similar to Guardian too.

Mesmer can only heal when you supplement their healing with other effects from Signets and Runes. They really don't have enough heals rather their kit is much better at promoting healing. Traited Signet of Inspiration, good access to Aegis, Teleport utility, double Feedback for resurrecting.

Edited July 26, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Exactly. A Mesmer may be able to spec the healing trait and make it through some content that you were struggling. But that doesn't make it a Healer. 

With little access to Protection, no Regeneration, instant useful heals, and more it just does not cut it for a healing build.

Edit: I was wondering if that was the case with the Virtuoso. I figured it must be when I was trying it out on my Virt.

Off-hand Shield for Protection, Regeneration is kind of irrelevant since even guardian has a hard time maintaining it and they heal less. It doesn't have any instant cast but is dam close. Manta of Recovery is on a 2.5 second cast time but has an awesome 10 second cooldown.

The real problem with Mesmer is it has no spammable healing like Staff Guardian or Medic Kit Engineer or Staff Druid. You essentially have to be a really good Mesmer main and perform a proper DPS rotation to get healing out. This does lead to them getting about 2-3k DPS more than any other Healers. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Ellon.4316]

21 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

You can run really high protection uptime about the same as Guardian with Off-hand Shield + traited Signet of Inspiration. Its only really viable in Raids/Strikes where you can stack more often but i would say that is similar to Guardian too.

I would like to see some kind of proof for this, against the golem is fine doesn't have to be a raid. Even with signet of ether to reset the shield phantasm and 100% boon duration i sit around 45% uptime which is less then 100%.

Also time to shatter worlds, signet of inspiration isn't affected by boon duration at all. The tooltip lies and even the might duration increase is just 3 seconds. Welcome to mesmer 🙂

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

I would like to see some kind of proof for this, against the golem is fine doesn't have to be a raid. Even with signet of ether to reset the shield phantasm and 100% boon duration i sit around 45% uptime which is less then 100%.

Also time to shatter worlds, signet of inspiration isn't affected by boon duration at all. The tooltip lies and even the might duration increase is just 3 seconds. Welcome to mesmer 🙂

That sounds about right very few elites can 100% protection even doing it on Guardian I believe involves you leaving Staff and using tomes charges you could be saving. 

The shield comes out when you are about to take massive damage. I mean it's the perfect tool for it is since you yourself go immune to any damage.

[Thron Stal.9367]

On 7/17/2023 at 7:09 AM, Kulvar.1239 said:

It doesn't exist because a healer must provide boons, including Alacrity or Quickness.

Virtuoso is not meant to be a healer and merely having some party healing do not qualify as a healer build.

Anet has ruined this game with those.  *sighs

[Ellon.4316]

16 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

That sounds about right very few elites can 100% protection even doing it on Guardian I believe involves you leaving Staff and using tomes charges you could be saving. 

You take strength in numbers trait for a base 50% protection uptime without doing anything, cast mantra of solace a few times and you are at almost 100% uptime. This is disregarding shield, tomes, mace, etc. that can also give protection. Or in the words of people smarter then me:

"Heal Quickness Firebrand is a versatile defensive support that provides permanent Quickness, Might, Fury, Protection, and Swiftness." https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/guardian/heal-quickness-firebrand/

Or "Heal Alacrity Druid is a strong, flexible defensive support that provides permanent Alacrity, Regeneration, Protection, Swiftness, Vigor, Fury, and 25 stacks of Might to a subgroup." https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/ranger/heal-alacrity-druid/

And even "Heal Alacrity Mechanist is a defensive support that provides permanent Alacrity, Regeneration, Protection, Fury, Vigor, and 25 stacks of Might" https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/builds/engineer/heal-alacrity-mechanist/

I would love to be wrong but there is a discrepancy between what other supports can bring to the table compared to mesmer. In my opinion ignoring this discrepancy and saying "heal-mesmer is fine" actively hurts heal-mesmer, for example if Anet takes that statement at face value then heal-mesmer will not get the buffs/skill-changes it needs to compete with the existing heal specs.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

On 7/26/2023 at 2:46 PM, Mell.4873 said:

You can run really high protection uptime about the same as Guardian with Off-hand Shield + traited Signet of Inspiration. Its only really viable in Raids/Strikes where you can stack more often but i would say that is similar to Guardian too.

Mesmer can only heal when you supplement their healing with other effects from Signets and Runes. They really don't have enough heals rather their kit is much better at promoting healing. Traited Signet of Inspiration, good access to Aegis, Teleport utility, double Feedback for resurrecting.

Signet of Inspiration doesn't do anything for a support. It only extends boons on yourself not what you provide to allies.

 

So you have mediocre healing. Minimal access to Protection. Only one source of Aegis in the well.

[Mell.4873]

3 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Signet of Inspiration doesn't do anything for a support. It only extends boons on yourself not what you provide to allies.

 

So you have mediocre healing. Minimal access to Protection. Only one source of Aegis in the well.

You have to trait it of coarse. 

You have two main sources of Aegis to. You can use Staff or share it via Distortion. 

[Ellon.4316]

On 7/29/2023 at 4:08 PM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

So you have mediocre healing. Minimal access to Protection. Only one source of Aegis in the well.

Have to agree with Mell here that aegis is isn't the problem. Aegis and stability are pretty much covered by our existing skills and traits. For reference the sources for aegis:

• Well of precognition
• Mantra of concentration, also a great source of stab and even in a 600 range!
• Chaos storm on staff even if it is random pulses aegis
  • Chaos storm can also trigger with Method of madness so we have two sources of this
• Master of manipulation to give aegis on certain utility skills, competes with method of madness
  • I prefer method of madness in this case, saves us from bringing another type of utility skill
• Inspiring distortion trait in inspiration
  • This can trigger more often when also traiting signets with blurred inscriptions.

Personally i don't think blurred inscriptions and signet of inspiration combo is the way to go. It takes up a utility slot and competes with one of the stronger heal traits. The cost of it is a bit much for what you get. Especially because it only increases boon duration by a flat 3 seconds ignoring concentration etc..

 

[Mell.4873]

On 7/31/2023 at 2:29 AM, Ellon.4316 said:

Personally i don't think blurred inscriptions and signet of inspiration combo is the way to go. It takes up a utility slot and competes with one of the stronger heal traits. The cost of it is a bit much for what you get. Especially because it only increases boon duration by a flat 3 seconds ignoring concentration etc..

 

You are right, traiting Signets are much better on DPS Support builds especially Alacrity Mirage. 

Although if you run the build, I posted to the Mesmer forums you should have enough other passive healing to be able to take the trait too. Rune of the Flock synergies really well with the Mantra of Recovery since they are both have a 10 second cooldown. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Mell.4873