It is unbearable

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Treacy.4067 said:

You replied to a thread about people saying they felt their feedback wasn't being listened to with you saying their feedback doesn't factor in because Anet said it's in a good place so therefore it is. 

No, I said their feedback doesn't determine if something is in a good place. That's not a judgement on whether player feedback is valuable or not. 

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No, I said their feedback doesn't determine if something is in a good place. That's not a judgement on whether player feedback is valuable or not. 

Which goes back to my original point, that what a company says is irrelevant if customers feel a certain way. Their opinions are valid.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Which goes back to my original point, that what a company says is irrelevant if customers feel a certain way. Their opinions are valid.

OK. I never stated opinions aren't valid. It's just not possible for Anet to appease every customer because not all customers feel 'a certain way' about the changes they make. That appears to be a significant trigger point for you ... but it's just reality. that's why it's unreasonable to think player opinions are determining 'good places' for classes. No good place can be found for the wide range of ideas and views players have. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

OK. I never stated opinions aren't valid. It's just not possible for Anet to appease every customer because not all customers feel 'a certain way' about the changes they make. That appears to be a significant trigger point for you ... but it's just reality. 

No what triggered me was an illogical argument. I don't care either way to be fair. I was simply pointing out that your response to those saying they felt their feedback wasn't listened to made no sense. To simply wave those people off by saying Anet decides what's in a good place, and not customers, is silly.

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

No what triggered me was an illogical argument. I don't care either way to be fair. I was simply pointing out that your response to those saying they felt their feedback wasn't listened to made no sense. To simply wave those people off by saying Anet decides what's in a good place, and not customers, is silly.

Right, an illogical argument which never existed because I didn't make a response to 'those saying they felt their feedback wasn't listened to' with any intent to 'simply wave those people off by saying Anet decides what's in a good place' to begin with. What I DID do what describe the process Anet is using to determine if a class is in a good place because it's pretty apparent many people have some very unreasonable expectations about how the game should work based on how they think it should work and not based on the criteria that Anet has for that. 

This isn't a waving off ... it's a reality check. Maybe if more people paid attention to how reality works, they would be less offended when they encountered reality working. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right, an illogical argument which never existed because I didn't make a response to 'those saying they felt their feedback wasn't listened to' with any intent to 'simply wave those people off by saying Anet decides what's in a good place' to begin with. What I DID do what describe the process Anet is using to determine if a class is in a good place because it's pretty apparent many people have some very unreasonable expectations about how the game should work based on how they think it should work and not based on the criteria that Anet has for that. 

This isn't a waving off ... it's a reality check. 

You did though. It's in this thread. Go back and read the thread.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

You did though. It's in this thread. Go back and read the thread.

Obviously, this is how people that don't like their reality think. It's very hard for for people to accept if they don't want to believe it. It's simply not arguable to deny Anet has a process they use to make class changes. If you want to believe that process or it's acknowledgement is a dismissal of player's opinions, that's not on me. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Obviously, this is how people that don't like their reality think. It's very hard for for people to accept if they don't want to believe it. It's simply not arguable to deny Anet has a process they use to make class changes. If you want to believe that's a dismissal of player's opinions, that's not on me. 

Saying everything is in a good place simply because a company says it is, despite customer dissatisfaction, is an incorrect take.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Saying everything is in a good place simply because a company says it is, despite customer dissatisfaction, is an incorrect take.

Well, I guess that simply depends if you are a realist or not. In the REAL world, Anet can't make the game cater to everyone that is dissatisfied with how the game works. That's why there is a process. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, I guess that simply depends if you are a realist or not. In the REAL world, Anet can't make the game cater to everyone that is dissatisfied with how the game works. 

Yes but companies would be wise to take into account feedback and not just wave it off and say things are fine because they simply say it is. I'm not saying Arenanet is or isn't doing this btw, I'm saying theoretically. And that is why I found issue with your original comment.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Yes but companies would be wise to take into account feedback and not just wave it off and say things are fine because they simply say it is. I'm not saying Arenanet is or isn't doing this btw, I'm saying theoretically. And that is why I found issue with your original comment.

Sure ... and there isn't any reason to believe Anet didn't do that in this case. In fact, we know they don't just 'wave things off' because there is a process for class changes that measures how players interact with the game. Also, and nothing about my original comment should have given you issue because nothing I said suggested Anet is ignoring or should ignore feedback either. Anet simply can't make a game based on how every player feels it should work. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... and there isn't any reason to believe Anet didn't do that in this case. Also, and nothing about my original comment should have given you issue because nothing I said suggested Anet is ignoring or should ignore feedback either. Anet simply can't make a game based on how every player feels it should work. 

Everything you said gave that impression lol. I don't know how many times I need to quote your own words back to you. And yes they can make a game based on how players feel, that's why they ask for feedback. People are saying they didn't listen to that feedback. This has nothing to do with making everyone happy. There's a difference between annoying a minority and angering a large number of folks who end up quitting because of it.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

And yes they can make a game based on how players feel, that's why they ask for feedback.

That's where you ignore reality. Not all players feel the same way so, no Anet can't make a game based on how players feel. Believe it or not, there is a wide spread of opinions about this change. 

10 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

People are saying they didn't listen to that feedback. This has nothing to do with making everyone happy. There's a difference between annoying a minority and angering a large number of folks who end up quitting because of it.

Sure, angry players are going to believe whatever they want because they didn't get the result they asked for. Anet acts on some feedback and some they don't; that's a reasonable expectation. People will quit because Arc Divider is 1 hit now? OK ... 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's where you ignore reality. Not all players feel the same way so, no Anet can't make a game based on how players feel. Believe it or not, there is a wide spread of opinions about this change. 

Sure, angry players are going to believe whatever they want because they didn't get the result they asked for. Anet acts on some feedback and some they don't; that's a reasonable expectation. 

 

I'm not here to argue that point, I am firmly planted in reality thanks. My point is that you can't dismiss a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine. Them saying it is doesn't mean it's so and that was a bad argument on your part. It's that simple really. Y

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

My point is that you can't dismiss a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine. Them saying it is doesn't mean it's so and that was a bad argument on your part. It's that simple really. 

Except I didn't say a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. Therefore, there is no argument to be had in the first place.  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Treacy.4067, my bother in Christ, Obtena never admits defeat, you are stuck in an endless loop. The only way to break the loop is to just step out of it.

[Treacy.4067]

2 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Except I didn't say a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. Therefore, there is no argument to be had in the first place.  

Do I really have to quote your own words back to you...again?

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Treacy.4067 said:

Do I really have to quote your own words back to you...again?

As much as you like ... because I know I never said a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. 

[Treacy.4067]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Treacy.4067, my bother in Christ, Obtena never admits defeat, you are stuck in an endless loop. The only way to break the loop is to just step out of it.

This is bordering on the absurd at this point. It's like they don't realize people can see what they previously said and can see them changing their posts through editing.

[Treacy.4067]

51 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No, I said their feedback doesn't determine if something is in a good place. That's not a judgement on whether player feedback is valuable or not. 

"1. Do people play the class the amount Anet wants?

2. Does the class work the way Anet wants it?

If the answer is yes to those questions ... then we are in a 'good place'. Stop convincing yourself it's about you. "

"The fact is that players opinions do not determine if something is in a good place." 

Your words.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Treacy.4067 said:

"1. Do people play the class the amount Anet wants?

2. Does the class work the way Anet wants it?

If the answer is yes to those questions ... then we are in a 'good place'. Stop convincing yourself it's about you. "

"The fact is that players opinions do not determine if something is in a good place." 

Your words.

Yup ... and none of those words says a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 31, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Treacy.4067]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup ... and none of those words says a large portion of the player base and their feedback should be dismissed because Anet says things are fine. 🤷‍♂️

You keep putting words in people's mouths and taking them out of your own lol.

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Treacy.4067 said:

You keep putting words in people's mouths and taking them out of your own lol.

Um, I don't get what you are talking about. You said: 

11 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

 My point is that you can't dismiss a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine.

Then quoted what I said as 'proof' I said that:

3 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

"1. Do people play the class the amount Anet wants?

2. Does the class work the way Anet wants it?

If the answer is yes to those questions ... then we are in a 'good place'. Stop convincing yourself it's about you. "

"The fact is that players opinions do not determine if something is in a good place." 

Your words.

I'm simply telling you that what I said is NOT proof I am dismissing a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

This is bordering on the absurd at this point. It's like they don't realize people can see what they previously said and can see them changing their posts through editing.

That is why you don't see the rest of us engage them anymore. Not worth anyone's time to have a meaningless discussion that gets bogged down in semantics.

[Treacy.4067]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Um, I don't get what you are talking about. You said: 

Then quoted what I said as 'proof' I said that:

I'm simply telling you that what I said is NOT proof I am dismissing a large portion of the player base and their feedback just because a gaming company says things are fine.

Your words are in black and white. You said that player feedback doesn't factor in and that things are fine because Anet says so. This is a bad argument.