Is Distortion/Invulns healthy?

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Positioning, timing, kiting, meanwhile, the scourge stands there, dropping aoe its feet, completely earning the counter play required.

 

I thought exposing your double standards would take more work, man was I wrong.

 

 

All this yappin and you still can't handle delaying your burst and walking to the left to avoid an elite skill zZZ

[Flowki.7194]

3 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

All this yappin and you still can't handle delaying your burst and walking to the left to avoid an elite skill zZZ

Your posts are getting shorter, now only consisting of things you've made up. Keep going though, I enjoy the depths you are willing to degrade yourself too.

 

 

[oujiboardspamname.1932]

The amount of time you can be in this I frame is my gripe with it. Mesmer was always anets little unique class and there's def a reason for that.. I'm not gonna go outta my way to say it's unbalanced, but the amount of work to balance it is simply stupid and will ultimately result in it becoming broken. It's the class that needs to sit where it's at while everything around it gets buffed, then buff it to match last because of how uniquely silly it is. 

[magickthief.6492]

1 hour ago, oujiboardspamname.1932 said:

The amount of time you can be in this I frame is my gripe with it. Mesmer was always anets little unique class and there's def a reason for that.. I'm not gonna go outta my way to say it's unbalanced, but the amount of work to balance it is simply stupid and will ultimately result in it becoming broken. It's the class that needs to sit where it's at while everything around it gets buffed, then buff it to match last because of how uniquely silly it is. 

Mesmer is clapped by thief. Lots of evades or blocks? Fine, thief swap to s/d. can still decap. biggest threat is d/p thief. wooooo

[Ovark.2514]

23 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

It's healthy for 2 reasons

- From a defensive point of views, mesmer gets extremely mediocre cleanse and no stab because Distortion is the intended answer to both CC and conditions; it's extremely versatile, however, thus has a decent cooldown. But that's the reason why mesmer gets, arguably, the best invuln in the game: Distortion is the intended answer to a mechanic you have no other way to deal with, and you need to be extremely careful in its usage because it's a big cooldown to spend, and it's the only one of its kind you have.

- From an offensive point of view, all classes will have the tools to cover a burst from CC\weaknessORblind\counterpressure. Every class gets their "SHUT UP IT'S MY TURN NOW!" moment through some means. Willbenders get it via their F3, reapers have shroud, for soulbeast it's the smokescale merge, for warriors it's Berserker mode, for harbingers it's Elixir of Ambition, so on so forth. When any of these tools is used, you stop whatever you're doing and you defend because counterattacking would be pointless; for mesmer, this tool comes from Distortion.

There is a design choice to be made here: most classes get different tools to secure these two sides of their gameplay (one set of tools to protect your burst when you need to attack, a different set of tools to keep you alive when you need to defend); on the positive side, those tools are extremely strong in their role with very affordable cooldowns, and you can take several of them if need be; on the negative side, they require investment (in traits, utilities or whatever).
Mesmer, on the other hand, has a class mechanic to do all that: on the positive side it comes for free, and out of the box it already does everything you could ask for; on the negative side this is literally all you get, and the lengthy cooldown forces you to choose whether you want to commit your distortion to defend or to attack, and if you make the wrong call you have 50s to think about how badly you just kittened up.
You can and should remove Blurred Inscriptions, you can and should rework Signet of Illusions so it doesn't refund the entirety of Distortion, you can and should call for virtuoso to lose Distortion in favor of the original iteration of Bladeturn Requiem, and I'm an advocate for making Distortion channeled on chronomancer.
BUT.
When it comes to the skill itself you all need a reality check:  as a mesmer, once every 50s you get to decide whether you're covering a burst or you're saving it for some condi bomb you have no other counterplay against. It's the strongest tool of its kind BECAUSE it is designed to exist within the limitations explicitly designed for the mesmer class ever since it was released, and you all can learn to live with this.

I think that you are making good arguments for "why distortion is an important tool for mesmer within the context of all other classes and the rest of mesmer's mitigation options". Unfortunately I think that isn't answering the question of "Is distortion healthy for pvp?" Unfortunately, this topic is one of the most polarizing in the pvp community because an opinion on it reflects that person's philosophy on the game they believe GW2 SHOULD be. I fall in the camp of believing that all mitigation should be unique and situational so that there is no "1-size fits all." And I believe that no class should be able to go invulnerable while attacking, ever.

Edit: Oops I accidentally coppied my post -_-" Forget how to delete it.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Ovark.2514

[Ovark.2514]

Just now, Ovark.2514 said:

I think that you are making good arguments for "why distortion is an important tool for mesmer within the context of all other classes and the rest of mesmer's mitigation options". Unfortunately I think that isn't answering the question of "Is distortion healthy for pvp?" Unfortunately, this topic is one of the most polarizing in the pvp community because an opinion on it reflects that person's philosophy on the game they believe GW2 SHOULD be. I fall in the camp of believing that all mitigation should be unique and situational so that there is no "1-size fits all." And I believe that no class should be able to go invulnerable while attacking (or doing anything  else) ever.

Edit: Typo

 

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

On 11/7/2023 at 10:00 AM, deathdealer.2197 said:

You can count those in with them, necro with the second health bar and guard in general is just easy to play

Ah, the good ole Necro 2nd health bar.. smh. Not the same as invuln, blocks, and stuff of that nature..

[Waffles.5632]

1 hour ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Ah, the good ole Necro 2nd health bar.. smh. Not the same as invuln, blocks, and stuff of that nature..

Yeah those abilities have significantly longer CD's while shroud is 10sec CD.

This is just another example of "I don't like X mechanic so you can't use it because it's unfair, but I can use Y mechanic that I do like NP."

Rules for thee, not for me! 🙃

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Ah, the good ole Necro 2nd health bar.. smh. Not the same as invuln, blocks, and stuff of that nature..

 

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Yeah those abilities have significantly longer CD's while shroud is 10sec CD.

This is just another example of "I don't like X mechanic so you can't use it because it's unfair, but I can use Y mechanic that I do like NP."

Rules for thee, not for me! 🙃

 

Hes got a point, you can almost garnutee if a player overextends into a full group of enemy, 9/10 times its a necro, or more recently a willbender. I wonder why 🤔

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

2 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Yeah those abilities have significantly longer CD's while shroud is 10sec CD.

This is just another example of "I don't like X mechanic so you can't use it because it's unfair, but I can use Y mechanic that I do like NP."

Rules for thee, not for me! 🙃

 

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

 

Hes got a point, you can almost garnutee if a player overextends into a full group of enemy, 9/10 times its a necro, or more recently a willbender. I wonder why 🤔

Cc chains say hello to necro

[Sweetbread.3678]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Hes got a point, you can almost garnutee if a player overextends into a full group of enemy, 9/10 times its a necro, or more recently a willbender. I wonder why 🤔

Basically every match is decided by whether or not your team has the 2 Reapers (out of the 4 in the match, because of course) that just immediately run 1v5 as soon as they rez or not.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

 

Cc chains say hello to necro

As if necros don't have the easiest CC, aoe damage, and area denial in the game. But sure, lets point out its 1 single flaw, a flaw that many other specs suffer too also.

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

17 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

As if necros don't have the easiest CC, aoe damage, and area denial in the game. But sure, lets point out its 1 single flaw, a flaw that many other specs suffer too also.

It's one "single flaw"can shut down a Necro, just like putting a target in its head and focusing it down. 

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

It's one "single flaw"can shut down a Necro, just like putting a target in its head and focusing it down. 

Necro is not the only class/spec that gets shut down by CC spam, you just can't see that fact becuase most of those specs don't even get played becuase of it, yet, necro is still all over ranked. Think about that.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Necro is not the only class/spec that gets shut down by CC spam, you just can't see that fact becuase most of those specs don't even get played becuase of it, yet, necro is still all over ranked. Think about that.

No but it's the easiest to shut down think about it. 

[Flowki.7194]

18 hours ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

No but it's the easiest to shut down think about it. 

At high level play when players are coordinated, yes, I agree. In 2v2 where you are more likely to face coordinated duo, I also agree. For the rest of the time, which will be something not too shy of 90% of all ranked games played, that is not true. The coordination required to not feed the necro, and gank him while also accounting for cc/wurm, AND avoiding the burst of chrono/scrapper/SB etc, is simply not there. It is rarely a good idea to primary a necro outside of organised play, they are like SPBs, take too much time/coordination to kill while they don't pump out insane damage, or can ''easier'' be avoided, unlike scrapper/chrono etc.

 

For example, I always target thief/scrapper who enters a group fight, when it ultimately stealths/runs, and then re-enters, I mark again. 2 things happen, A: many team mates do not start attacking the thief/scrapper again (I have to pressure it myself, being one of the key reasons I no longer play full support) or B: We attack, and then the thief/scrapper runs away from the group fight, I retarget to the next most important player to attack who is still within the group fight. However, a player or two keep on chasing the kill on the thief/scrapper, despite him going in full GTFO mode. The only intent is to make the thief/scrapper leave the fight, or die, it is not to have players chase it off the point and around the map. So you think I am going to mark a necro who just entered a group fight? with such a high chance that only 1 or 2 players will attack it, feed it.. so that it can tank that damage? all the while that same damage from those of us following targets, could have killed a thief/chrono/scrapper, or chased them off the point at least? Again, I mark and change targets all the time depending on the changing dynamics, im often the only person that does it on team, it doesnt take long to realise what im pointing out if youve been doing the same. Thats what avg level play looks like, necros get a free ride from not being primaried much, not so different to bladesworns.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

19 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

At high level play when players are coordinated, yes, I agree. In 2v2 where you are more likely to face coordinated duo, I also agree. For the rest of the time, which will be something not too shy of 90% of all ranked games played, that is not true. The coordination required to not feed the necro, and gank him while also accounting for cc/wurm, AND avoiding the burst of chrono/scrapper/SB etc, is simply not there. It is rarely a good idea to primary a necro outside of organised play, they are like SPBs, take too much time/coordination to kill while they don't pump out insane damage, or can ''easier'' be avoided, unlike scrapper/chrono etc.

 

For example, I always target thief/scrapper who enters a group fight, when it ultimately stealths/runs, and then re-enters, I mark again. 2 things happen, A: many team mates do not start attacking the thief/scrapper again (I have to pressure it myself, being one of the key reasons I no longer play full support) or B: We attack, and then the thief/scrapper runs away from the group fight, I retarget to the next most important player to attack who is still within the group fight. However, a player or two keep on chasing the kill on the thief/scrapper, despite him going in full GTFO mode. The only intent is to make the thief/scrapper leave the fight, or die, it is not to have players chase it off the point and around the map. So you think I am going to mark a necro who just entered a group fight? with such a high chance that only 1 or 2 players will attack it, feed it.. so that it can tank that damage? all the while that same damage from those of us following targets, could have killed a thief/chrono/scrapper, or chased them off the point at least? Again, I mark and change targets all the time depending on the changing dynamics, im often the only person that does it on team, it doesnt take long to realise what im pointing out if youve been doing the same. Thats what avg level play looks like, necros get a free ride from not being primaried much, not so different to bladesworns.

Here's the thing about Necro and always has been

1) focus it burst it down, now this leaves one or 2 things for it to do: Wurm away/ or die, especially if your team has high burst DMG on it.  Congrats on making it Wurm away if it's able to, now it has slowly run back or go to a different node alone.  Either way it's off a point that's contested waiting for cds. 

2) you don't  focus fire it and allow it to position itself,.leaving it free range to do as it wants, congrats now your getting hit with condies left and right/feared etc. Allowing it to build life force. 

Did you just compare Necro to spb's? The rule of thumb is delete the Necro from the start but I see you rather would let it free cast. The only acception from this is if there's 2 necros on a team, then you clearly split them up and delete them. This is were 99.8% of people have problems, they let it free cast/don't target it/burst it down. 

 

Also there is no high lvl play in this game,  that is an illusion to make people feel good

Edited November 13, 2023 by porkchopMCgee.6193
Added stuff

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Also there is no high lvl play in this game,  that is an illusion to make people feel good

Not true~

Its just only leveraged by a number of people in the double digits when it comes to pvp, and most of them are running weird builds.

You can definitely still tell when someone is counting your buttons. It's just that 9 times out of 10, people don't and are just spamming their rotation, then /w to flame their opponent when it doesnt work. 

There is high level play, its just a relic used rarely by people whose names you tend to remember. 

I wish that popularion was bigger, but alas~

Edited November 13, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Vinny.7260]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I wish that popularion was bigger, but alas~

I was actually talking about this with some people.

PvP in MMORPGs as a whole is starting to die off. Something something people dislike the negative energy associated with it and prefer the easier going mindsets behind PvE.

Even as a total sweatlord I prefer RPing and PvE but play PvP cuz the content is constant.

 

Makes my stim-craving brain go brrr.

[Flowki.7194]

10 hours ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

Here's the thing about Necro and always has been

1) focus it burst it down, now this leaves one or 2 things for it to do: Wurm away/ or die, especially if your team has high burst DMG on it.  Congrats on making it Wurm away if it's able to, now it has slowly run back or go to a different node alone.  Either way it's off a point that's contested waiting for cds. 

2) you don't  focus fire it and allow it to position itself,.leaving it free range to do as it wants, congrats now your getting hit with condies left and right/feared etc. Allowing it to build life force. 

Did you just compare Necro to spb's? The rule of thumb is delete the Necro from the start but I see you rather would let it free cast. The only acception from this is if there's 2 necros on a team, then you clearly split them up and delete them. This is were 99.8% of people have problems, they let it free cast/don't target it/burst it down. 

 

Also there is no high lvl play in this game,  that is an illusion to make people feel good

 

Mate, there are multiple power specs that are far more dangerous than necro. You want to attack the scourge while the chrono/SB/willbender/scrapper, even thief.. rip through your back line? have at it. Necro is like SPB, and even like condi zerker, in that it is most dangerous up close. You can avoid a lot of necros who just sit on the point, and focus on the willbender/SB overextending into your back line. That is the average game at present. If a necro+scrapper focuses me, you can be kitten sure im kiting the necro and attacking the scrapper. Same with necro+chrono, there is no way in hell im letting the chrono free cast his split burst.. kite the necro, target the chrono, force him to use clones on invulns.

 

You keep applying this perfect scenario where the enemy team is organised, all attacking the necro, following up after wurm, and all of the necros team mates are AKF or something?. I agree with you, in coordinated play necro is weak, but sPvP is FFAAAARRRR from organised play. And again, you keep talking like poor necro is the only thing that crumbles when primaried. Try renegade?, or any other spec that has been locked out of existance. If necro was so bad then explain why I had a recent game with 4 necros in it (3 scourge, one core), and also 4 condi zerkers. Why not 4 renegades?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[kiwituatara.6053]

Invuln and distortion is fine, but why are mesmer and guardian invulns immune to existing conditions as well?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

I was actually talking about this with some people.

PvP in MMORPGs as a whole is starting to die off. Something something people dislike the negative energy associated with it and prefer the easier going mindsets behind PvE.

Its because the chill people have other competive outlets, and pvp online draws the most desperate win-starved, ungracious people imaginable. 

Here you can be as annoying as you want and barely risk a ban. If you try what people get away with here at a venue you get ejected and probably made fun of on twitter.

There's too many people treating it like they'll actually die irl if they lose, and not enough people willing to run silly, fun to fight kitten and make the space fun to come relax in. It takes a special kind of strength to fight in a way that affords your opponent some enjoyment (when the game makes it possible for you to not do that), and most of the people here are too weak.

The foundation is there, but the people that make mmos tolerable are in pve so they don't have to be a party to silver randall making cringe 4chan posts in map chat, then afking in their game because the other team has a duo. Why would they do that after a 9 to 5 or whatever? there's like a million better uses of your time.

🤷‍♀️

Edited November 14, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

14 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

Mate, there are multiple power specs that are far more dangerous than necro. You want to attack the scourge while the chrono/SB/willbender/scrapper, even thief.. rip through your back line? have at it. Necro is like SPB, and even like condi zerker, in that it is most dangerous up close. You can avoid a lot of necros who just sit on the point, and focus on the willbender/SB overextending into your back line. That is the average game at present. If a necro+scrapper focuses me, you can be kitten sure im kiting the necro and attacking the scrapper. Same with necro+chrono, there is no way in hell im letting the chrono free cast his split burst.. kite the necro, target the chrono, force him to use clones on invulns.

 

You keep applying this perfect scenario where the enemy team is organised, all attacking the necro, following up after wurm, and all of the necros team mates are AKF or something?. I agree with you, in coordinated play necro is weak, but sPvP is FFAAAARRRR from organised play. And again, you keep talking like poor necro is the only thing that crumbles when primaried. Try renegade?, or any other spec that has been locked out of existance. If necro was so bad then explain why I had a recent game with 4 necros in it (3 scourge, one core), and also 4 condi zerkers. Why not 4 renegades?

I given a scenario and default case of necro. If you can't comprend that's on you 

[porkchopMCgee.6193]

12 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Its because the chill people have other competive outlets, and pvp online draws the most desperate win-starved, ungracious people imaginable. 

Here you can be as annoying as you want and barely risk a ban. If you try what people get away with here at a venue you get ejected and probably made fun of on twitter.

There's too many people treating it like they'll actually die irl if they lose, and not enough people willing to run silly, fun to fight kitten and make the space fun to come relax in. It takes a special kind of strength to fight in a way that affords your opponent some enjoyment (when the game makes it possible for you to not do that), and most of the people here are too weak.

The foundation is there, but the people that make mmos tolerable are in pve so they don't have to be a party to silver randall making cringe 4chan posts in map chat, then afking in their game because the other team has a duo. Why would they do that after a 9 to 5 or whatever? there's like a million better uses of your time.

🤷‍♀️

You just described 99.9% of the pvpers. Smh sad times

Edited November 14, 2023 by porkchopMCgee.6193

[Flowki.7194]

3 hours ago, porkchopMCgee.6193 said:

I given a scenario and default case of necro. If you can't comprend that's on you 

Rofl that was not a default scenario of necro, not even close. Im telling you straight, if you primary my necro teamate in avg level play (90% of games) while im on power chrono or glass ele, im laughing at you all the way to top kills and/or damage. Both of those specs cant handle group pressure, yet both pump out far better applied burst at range than necro. Do the math man, you really think free casting necros are the worse case scenario?