Relic of the Demon Queen doesn't reach -83%

[Arky.3072]

Because I'm a condi-transferring necro main, and because I'm curious, I wanted to test if condi transfer and the new Relic of the Demon Queen synergize.

My theory was that if you get poison applied on you while you have the relic equipped, and transfer it back with, eg Deathly Swarm (dagger 4) or the "Suffer!" reaper shout, it would apply the poison with -83% healing effectiveness, instead of the regular -33%.

To test this, I teamed up with a friend in our guild hall. He's on ranger with Stalker's Strike (dagger 4) as poison source. His healing skill (We Heal As One) in its initial state will heal him for 7159 health and doesn't cleanse conditions.

Initial, perfect world percent calculations:
- No poison: heal for 7159
- Poison without relic: heal for 5512 (-33%)
- Poison with relic: heal for 1217 (-83%)

Results:
It turns out that transferring poison takes a bit of effort. I had to use both Deathly Swarm and "Suffer!" before it landed on him. Also, I'm accepting the healing values to be "within margin", even though they don't hit the perfect world percentages, as, with everything in this game, we have to take various variables into account. It could be other conditions, maxing out healing (not taking enough damage before healing), etc.

- Ranger -> Necro (without relic) -> Ranger: healed for 4989, so within a -33% margin
- Ranger -> Necro (with relic) -> Ranger: healed for 3580, so within a -50% margin
- Necro pistol 3 (without relic) -> Ranger: healed for 4797, so again within a -33% margin
- Necro pistol 3 (with relic) -> Ranger: healed for 3580, so -again within a -50% margin

At no point during the test did we reach the -83% healing effectiveness.

This means the -83% as advertised both on the relic and on tooltips (Vile Blast's tooltip is updated to -83% while the relic is equipped) is false, but rather -50%. Vile Blast (necro pistol 3) was specifically chosen, as it both poisons and interrupts, thus should definitely trigger the relic.

On the other hand, if you look at other similar "buffs", eg Improved Alacrity trait on Chrono, -50% would be acceptable but since this relic is advertised as -83% as it says on the relic tooltip and skills synergizing with it, then it's either not working as intended or the description is wrong.

Video proof: Ranger POV: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1973484663?t=02h04m06s (pardon the occasional Danish).

I'm sure this test can be done much more thoroughly but this is a good baseline that shows Relic of the Demon Queen doesn't work as advertised.

[Chaba.5410]

I'm confused. Where do you figure -83% from? Thought the relic says 50% reduction.

[Arky.3072]

11 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I'm confused. Where do you figure -83% from? Thought the relic says 50% reduction.

Relic description:
https://i.imgur.com/0Rzk5Wp.png

Vile Blase without relic (showing -33%):
https://i.imgur.com/fPYUdX9.png

Vile Blase with relic (showing -83%):
https://i.imgur.com/ZfuJR36.png

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I'm confused. Where do you figure -83% from? Thought the relic says 50% reduction.

The Relic says that poison healing reduction is increased by an additional 50%.

You can see on the tooltip for poison effects while you have the relic equipped as well that it says -83%.

1 hour ago, Arky.3072 said:

Arky's Big Test Results.

From your testing then it would appear to me that the relic is functioning mechanically as expected (-33% increased by 50%) but the tooltip is currently wrong (-33% plus an additive 50%).

[Bovan.9481]

It's meant to be 50%.
The tooltip showing a different number is the error, but it works as it should.

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, Arky.3072 said:

Relic description:
https://i.imgur.com/0Rzk5Wp.png

Vile Blase without relic (showing -33%):
https://i.imgur.com/fPYUdX9.png

Vile Blase with relic (showing -83%):
https://i.imgur.com/ZfuJR36.png

The way I read it is "Healing Reduction: 50%", not +50%, not additional reduction.  Tooltips are notoriously full of "fluff" that confuses more than helps.

I don't know why the tooltip then shows a calculated amount at -83%.  No way Anet would make something that large.  It's like a recent vindicator damage reduction trait that was occurring at 90% when it wasn't supposed to be that high.  It was a bug.

Seems like the bug is with the tooltip.
 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Arky.3072]

3 hours ago, Remus Darkblight.1673 said:

From your testing then it would appear to me that the relic is functioning mechanically as expected (-33% increased by 50%) but the tooltip is currently wrong (-33% plus an additive 50%).

Yeah, that definitely seems to be the case, which would bring it to -49.5% healing effectiveness (or probably rounded to a nice, round -50%).

I can accept -50%, and it's still a good relic. Until Vass get its cooldown removed on the 28th 😉

 

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

I don't know why the tooltip then shows a calculated amount at -83%.  No way Anet would make something that large.  It's like a recent vindicator damage reduction trait that was occurring at 90% when it wasn't supposed to be that high.  It was a bug.

Seems like the bug is with the tooltip.

I agree, don't get me wrong. -83% send like a crazy amount, and I was merely testing its validity. Mechanically it's working as it should. Tooltips are just a mess.

[Chaba.5410]

4 minutes ago, Arky.3072 said:

I agree, don't get me wrong. -83% send like a crazy amount, and I was merely testing its validity. Mechanically it's working as it should. Tooltips are just a mess.

Thanks for testing.  I honestly didn't know where the 83 was coming from because I tend to tune out some of the fluff in tooltips and just look at the effect line item.  Most of the tooltips will use the word "increase/decrease" when it's on top of something else.

[Arky.3072]

Just got a reply back from support.

They checked the development side, and the devs have been made aware of this. It'll be fixed soon.

[kiwituatara.6053]

On 11/11/2023 at 7:32 PM, Arky.3072 said:

Just got a reply back from support.

They checked the development side, and the devs have been made aware of this. It'll be fixed soon.

Fixed so the tooltip says 50% total reduction? Or actually change the reduced healing to -83%? 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

When they previewed the relic they were clear that it is to be a 50% reduction in healing, not an extra 50% on top of the existing 33%. The tool tip is the error.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 11/14/2023 at 5:08 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

When they previewed the relic they were clear that it is to be a 50% reduction in healing, not an extra 50% on top of the existing 33%. The tool tip is the error.

To be more specific it's actually the 33% base reduction increased by 50% (of the base), which happens to be almost exactly 50% overall. This would make the tooltip on the Relic itself correct, but the implementation on the poison tooltip as being the error, someone did a straight addition when they should have multiplied and then added.

0.33 + 0.5 = 0.83 (83%)

0.33 + (0.33 * 0.5) = 0.495 (almost 50%)