New Chaos traitline is almost all boons now; would you even still take this for condi DPS?

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

To my mind the Chaos rework is basically "Inspiration Part II", outside of Chaotic Potency, and half of Chaotic Persistence. Would you even still run this on, for instance, condi DPS Mirage? I'm thinking Illusions instead...

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

If you are staff Mirage, why wouldn't you? The only thing that was changed to staff Mirage was Illusionary Membrane, upkeeping the 10% bonus is going to be a bit sweatier but overall nothing really changed.

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

I was talking more about Axe.

[Voyant.1327]

While its definitely been nerfed (deleted during edit, was wrong, it just sucks now after further testing pretty much anything is better to use at this point. The pros are offset by the way regeneration has been removed from f4, requires chaos aura which renders choices like the extra condi dmg inert. Just a full wasted traitline now, imo.)

They've been doing this for years, kinda just have to accept they balance around the meta & that usually means we lose dps/hps in exchange for boon application. 

Which if you like the meta its fine, if you want to play any other way it sucks. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Voyant.1327

[Roadkizzle.2157]

36 minutes ago, Voyant.1327 said:

While its definitely been nerfed its got decent utility still for full condi builds, the 250 expertise is a little awkward to maintain uptime and the condi dmg loss hurts but still provides more then dueling.

They've been doing this for years, kinda just have to accept they balance around the meta & that usually means we lose dps/hps in exchange for boon application. 

Which if you like the meta its fine, if you want to play any other way it sucks. 

Is the Expertise and Concentration also triggered on Chaos Aura?

 

I was wondering if they were going to keep that trait as is or if it was just undocumented and they were going to make the same change to both minor traits.

[Voyant.1327]

Just now, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Is the Expertise and Concentration also triggered on Chaos Aura?

 

I was wondering if they were going to keep that trait as is or if it was just undocumented and they were going to make the same change to both minor traits.

its on regen still like before, it's just too clunky to maintain solo with the switch to heal/requiring chaos aura... which means you have to take that traitline.
It's moved from solo friendly/utility to niche essentially.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

1 minute ago, Voyant.1327 said:

its on regen still like before, it's just too clunky to maintain solo with the switch to heal/requiring chaos aura... which means you have to take that traitline.
It's moved from solo friendly/utility to niche essentially.

How did you maintain Regen before?

It seemed much harder to maintain Regen for me except with the Mirage trait which hasn't changed.

[Voyant.1327]

29 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

How did you maintain Regen before?

It seemed much harder to maintain Regen for me except with the Mirage trait which hasn't changed.

was very easy to maintain in concert with the f4/75% threshold proc, the on hit due to the heavy amount of chaos aura possibility with torch/staff/lesser chaos storm would hold over, for Virts you could also utilize the on block/dodge procs as well, and of course not forgetting the use of the signet to reset the skills just in case you were cutting it close.
100% regen uptime was never a concern before which made the 250 expertise/concentration + condi damage traitline + minor condi trait extremely useful and even gave f4 a purpose.

In one swoop, all these benefits got axed hard from maximum benefit in exchange to offer boons.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Voyant.1327

[Psycoprophet.8107]

So were the changes to the line a net nerf to chaos condi builds in pvp/wvw?

[Roadkizzle.2157]

2 minutes ago, Voyant.1327 said:

was very easy to maintain in concert with the f4/75% threshold proc, the on hit due to the heavy amount of chaos aura possibility with torch/staff/lesser chaos storm would hold over, for Virts you could also utilize the on block/dodge procs as well, and of course not forgetting the use of the signet to reset the skills just in case you were cutting it close.
100% regen uptime was never a concern before which made the 250 expertise/concentration + condi damage traitline + minor condi trait extremely useful and even gave f4 a purpose.

In one swoop, all these benefits got axed hard from maximum benefit in exchange to offer boons.

I'm extraordinarily skeptical that you could get better uptime from with the old way and now.

10s on a 50s cooldown skill and the extremely unpredictable getting hit below 75% health.

Randomly getting Regen from Chaos Aura and Chaos Storm hasn't changed. Now you can constantly guarantee Regen with the heal skill instead of hoping that enemies kill you in order to get it.

I think that you were likely overestimating your uptime on Regen or just need to take some time to adjust.

[Roadkizzle.2157]

Just now, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

So were the changes to the line a net nerf to chaos condi builds in pvp/wvw?

The biggest problem with the changes is really the Condition Damage minor trait triggering on Chaos Aura and not Regen.

[Voyant.1327]

11 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I'm extraordinarily skeptical that you could get better uptime from with the old way and now.

10s on a 50s cooldown skill and the extremely unpredictable getting hit below 75% health.

Randomly getting Regen from Chaos Aura and Chaos Storm hasn't changed. Now you can constantly guarantee Regen with the heal skill instead of hoping that enemies kill you in order to get it.

I think that you were likely overestimating your uptime on Regen or just need to take some time to adjust.

 

 

Was netting 18 seconds every 42.5 pre Alacrity from the F4 alone.

So just utilizing the signet correctly is 36 seconds off of just the F4. 

It is not hard to let yourself get hit once or twice every 45 seconds. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Are you guys factoring in the Jade Tech Overcharge buffs?  The way I see it, those buffs with metaphysical rejuvenation all but guarantee you'll have regeneration for a whole fight, and if you're in group content you'll get regeneration from the healers.  

The question I have if the changes to the illusion line will make it worth using over the chaos line for axe mirage.  Chaotic Persistence giving 16.7% condi duration is massive.  On my setup that is nearly a 10% increase in overall damage.  The illusion line has a lot of extra stacks, mostly confusion but some torment and burn.  Confusion is rather weak right now, so really the trait line is mostly Compounding Power, The Pledge, and Maim the Disillusioned.  The Dueling Line has more additional stacks, but it is mostly confusion, so it can be reduced to Sharper Images and Duelist Discipline.

Currently I'm running Axe + Pistol/Torch with Dueling + Illusions + Mirage, but at this point I have no clue if it would actually be better than running Chaos + Dueling.  Double-Staff hasn't changed much, since it can't take advantage of The Prestige.  

[Exciton.8942]

Yes. it is still very strong for condi dps build. 10% condi damage buff gets harder to maintain with chaos aura. But 250 expertise + 120 condition damage(240 with staff) is still no joke.