August.5934 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Title. I play daredevil thief for abit, more then staff, i find my self spamming PistolxPistol's skill 3 basically 95% of time. I beg for Anet to release a martial arts class and people around the forum keep pointing on daredevil thief (plays nothing like a martial arts class). Personally, even though, thief's skills are spammable cause of no CD system and just points system. The damage from daredevil felt non existance and with the staff playstyle on daredevil, i see myself having no boons. The build i am using is this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAYprlRwaYesFWJWySptaA-DSIYRUzXIBmA1GCVUB2eHAAA-e I am going critical strikes for more damage and more crit chance since i am on scholar runes. Arobatics for more movement, heals, damage and specially for elite skill so when i use the elite skill, i can do a full damage without getting interrupted and do full damage while evading all attacks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akira.9623 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 but this is not about specialization, but about the problem that I have an advantage that is not acceptable 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroTheRuler.7415 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 7 hours ago, August.5934 said: Title. I play daredevil thief for abit, more then staff, i find my self spamming PistolxPistol's skill 3 basically 95% of time. I beg for Anet to release a martial arts class and people around the forum keep pointing on daredevil thief (plays nothing like a martial arts class). Personally, even though, thief's skills are spammable cause of no CD system and just points system. The damage from daredevil felt non existance and with the staff playstyle on daredevil, i see myself having no boons. The build i am using is this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAYprlRwaYesFWJWySptaA-DSIYRUzXIBmA1GCVUB2eHAAA-e I am going critical strikes for more damage and more crit chance since i am on scholar runes. Arobatics for more movement, heals, damage and specially for elite skill so when i use the elite skill, i can do a full damage without getting interrupted and do full damage while evading all attacks. PvP and PvE are wildly different animals when it comes to staff play. For PvE power staff is decent to good, but I feel it gets outclassed in the highest end content (you can still land great DPS). The forced movement becomes a bit laborsome after a while. I would have to say its a differnt story for PvP. Take this with a grain of salt because I have not played a ton of staff PvP builds. I experimented with it a few years ago and I just remembering it not being a enjoyable experience. The main reason for this is a lack of stealth going alongside thieves expected role compression (being a sneaky side noder and +1). If there were stats to complement staff play in PvP then perhaps I could see myself playing it more. I really wanted to try a vallun staff/staff build a while back, but I never got around to it. I should probably try staff in PvP sometime again. Edited January 5 by ZeroTheRuler.7415 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 14 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said: PvP and PvE are wildly different animals when it comes to staff play. For PvE power staff is decent to good, but I feel it gets outclassed in the highest end content (you can still land great DPS). The forced movement becomes a bit laborsome after a while. I would have to say its a differnt story for PvP. Take this with a grain of salt because I have not played a ton of staff PvP builds. I experimented with it a few years ago and I just remembering it not being a enjoyable experience. The main reason for this is a lack of stealth going alongside thieves expected role compression (being a sneaky side noder and +1). If there were stats to complement staff play in PvP then perhaps I could see myself playing it more. I really wanted to try a vallun staff/staff build a while back, but I never got around to it. I should probably try staff in PvP sometime again. Ya, I haven't played Drd or staff in a long time but I remember gassing out under any real pressure in WvW past a minute or two with no reliable trait combo for a feedback loop. Been a while but I feel like there used to be a long time ago, but I'd have to look through the trait history again. I like the feel of staff animations and it felt better and more contained in Action Cam, but I don't think I ever got Hook Strike at a time when I didn't need to use something else instead during a real fight. Still OP, If I played it again, I would probably think of most of my mitigation coming from weapon skills, dodge/timing, and utilities (depending on game mode you might be stuck with certain utilities though) and then trait to close things out faster and maybe Marauder at the tankiest but I don't play other game modes much. In group and squad play though, I do remember my combo finishers keep me up through blob fights and that's where Staff animations felt like that sweat spot of offensive and defensive at the same time. Edited January 5 by kash.9213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godofcows.2451 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Pve and pvp are two different things and i'm surprised you put them together on a single chart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jugglemonkey.8741 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 On 1/5/2024 at 1:09 AM, akira.9623 said: but this is not about specialization, but about the problem that I have an advantage that is not acceptable You're in the wrong thread dude. Your Thief complaint thread is elsewhere. On 1/4/2024 at 8:56 PM, August.5934 said: Title. I play daredevil thief for abit, more then staff, i find my self spamming PistolxPistol's skill 3 basically 95% of time. I beg for Anet to release a martial arts class and people around the forum keep pointing on daredevil thief (plays nothing like a martial arts class). Personally, even though, thief's skills are spammable cause of no CD system and just points system. The damage from daredevil felt non existance and with the staff playstyle on daredevil, i see myself having no boons. The build i am using is this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAYprlRwaYesFWJWySptaA-DSIYRUzXIBmA1GCVUB2eHAAA-e I am going critical strikes for more damage and more crit chance since i am on scholar runes. Arobatics for more movement, heals, damage and specially for elite skill so when i use the elite skill, i can do a full damage without getting interrupted and do full damage while evading all attacks. Staff thief in PvE is passable, but in PvP it's pretty bad. You can get away with it more in WvW because the higher damage lets you hit harder, but in PvP its not really been a thing since PvP seasons 1-2. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhina.1827 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Daredevil is my favorite spec in the game. Well, I suppose I should reframe that response. The current iteration of daredevil literally offers absolutely nothing but an improvement on core thief due to an extra dodge. So I guess in that regard core thief with daredevil's extra dodge is my favorite class. But I think you're right. I think it's silly that people keep suggesting daredevil as the martial arts/monk class when willbender fits that troupe much better. Willbender's punch, kick, dash, lunge, and block skills are at worst viable and at best essential. The healing counter, the dashing punches from your F skills, the spin kick often paired with judge's intervention, the meditation-like invulnerable elite utility, etc. In any case, I hope they do a better job of making thief's skills more relevant. I'd like the daredevil skills to actually matter. And it'd be cool if specter wells were useful for more than just role play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August.5934 Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 Maybe they can rework thief to be a true matrial arts class 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Every profession are martial artists. Handling weapons is part of what a martial artist is supposed to do and all profession do just that. Now, I believe the OP want a hand to hand specialist and the closest thing to that is warrior with both physical skills and rage skills (berserker) while the physical elite (rampage) make him a "true" hand to hand fighter for a few seconds. Daredevil and Willbender on another hand offer a taste of more agile hand to hand fighter. An interesting point is that Ranger still retain a weapon skill that make use of kicks (GS skill#4). Maybe your fantasy would have been fullfilled (albeit poorly) by the original AA of ranger main hand sword which used to kick the foe on the second attack of the chain. The upcoming mace also have an upercut in it's AA chain for all it's worth. (Would using some of the pet skills while in beast form as a soulbeast count as hand to hand as well?) Just for the fun of it, engineer also do have a kick (rocket kick) and I do think that personal battery ram can count as a punch. Without forgeting the fact that Elixir X can potentially give him Warrior's rampage. I do believe that none of the profession will truly be able to satify your fantasy unless the devs finally decide to introduce a way to provide hand to hand skills on the weapon skill slots. I don't think it's something unrealistic for the futur, Engineer could have such a kit added to it's utility skillset just like Elementalist could very well conjure water gloves as a healing skill for example if wone day they decide to complete the utility skillsets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ysesper.3047 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 From maining staff DD in pve for like 5-6 years now, pDD is fine in hard content. It would be appreciated a small damage buff (+2k or something like that), but you can easily outdamage other specs if you control yours well enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August.5934 Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 6 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: Every profession are martial artists. Handling weapons is part of what a martial artist is supposed to do and all profession do just that. NO. A true martial arts is a mastery over thier own body. Making the body itself so durable & strong that it in itself becomes the weapon and the shield. Instead of harnessing the power from weapons and armors, Martial artist harness the power of thier lifeforce (ki/chi/Qi/aura...). what you are talking about is the mastery over the weapons and it's abilities. Just as mage uses thier magic to destroy everything around them and Martial Artist uses thier lifeforce energy and thier insanely durable body to destroy everything. Martial artist wield no weapon expect for gauntlet (basically iron gloves to punch harder), they are extreamly fast as well. https://i.postimg.cc/5tsbNL9f/Skills.png 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Every class is technically a martial artist. Op if ur referencing monks Chinese martial art themed than willbender would suit u far better than dd staff. Dd is more assassin with staff themed or even sohei having Japanese martial arts flavors due to the core class being so heavily influenced by shonobi as more than half its traits depict shinobi and uses skills and tools associated with shinobi such as caltrops, smoke bombs, scorpion wire, stealth shenanigans etc, only things missing from Hollywood ninja is shuriken throwing. If reviewing staff skills they all seem to fit a staff wielding martial artists do the utilities being fist flury/palm strike, impact strike, distracting and impairing dagger throws, especially when combined with the core utilities thief already has access to. I think the bigger issues which also effects willbender is that the spacific skills or utilities that lend to that playstyle and theme though exist are not used and are less viable than other option. Anet just needs to do a pass on these skills to make them more viable compared to the other options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 14 minutes ago, August.5934 said: NO. A true martial arts is a mastery over thier own body. Making the body itself so durable & strong that it in itself becomes the weapon and the shield. Instead of harnessing the power from weapons and armors, Martial artist harness the power of thier lifeforce (ki/chi/Qi/aura...). what you are talking about is the mastery over the weapons and it's abilities. Just as mage uses thier magic to destroy everything around them and Martial Artist uses thier lifeforce energy and thier insanely durable body to destroy everything. Martial artist wield no weapon expect for gauntlet (basically iron gloves to punch harder), they are extreamly fast as well. https://i.postimg.cc/5tsbNL9f/Skills.png U are referring to spacific types martial arts not martial arts as a whole. U are referring to chinese unarmed martial arts which is just one of many martial arts. I think Anet tried to incorporate some flavoring of these with impact strike, fist flury and with willbenders utilities in a way that fit the game. Unless anet releases whole new class thats unarmed I think u will have to settle with what we have as even if a spec is released it would be to influenced by tge core class to fit what u want, plus would lose all access to core/spec weapons which would have to be compensated for somehow which seems also unrealistic. Edited January 8 by Psycoprophet.8107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 39 minutes ago, August.5934 said: NO. A true martial arts is a mastery over thier own body. Making the body itself so durable & strong that it in itself becomes the weapon and the shield. Instead of harnessing the power from weapons and armors, Martial artist harness the power of thier lifeforce (ki/chi/Qi/aura...). what you are talking about is the mastery over the weapons and it's abilities. Just as mage uses thier magic to destroy everything around them and Martial Artist uses thier lifeforce energy and thier insanely durable body to destroy everything. Martial artist wield no weapon expect for gauntlet (basically iron gloves to punch harder), they are extreamly fast as well. https://i.postimg.cc/5tsbNL9f/Skills.png That's martial arts: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=martial+arts+wiki Quote The traditional martial arts that cover armed combat often encompass a wide spectrum of melee weapons, including bladed weapons and polearms. Such traditions include eskrima, silat, kalaripayat, kobudo, and historical European martial arts, especially those of the Italian Renaissance. Many Chinese martial arts also feature weapons as part of their curriculum. Sometimes, training with one specific weapon may be considered a style in its own right, especially in the case of Japanese martial arts, with disciplines such as kenjutsu and kendo (sword), bojutsu (staff), and kyūdō (archery). Similarly, modern martial arts and sports include modern fencing, stick-fighting systems like canne de combat, modern competitive archery and practical shooting. Your picture of a "martial artist" feel like it come more from litterature than anything else. That said: 43 minutes ago, August.5934 said: A true martial arts is a mastery over thier own body. Making the body itself so durable & strong that it in itself becomes the weapon and the shield. Instead of harnessing the power from weapons and armors, Martial artist harness the power of thier lifeforce (ki/chi/Qi/aura...) That's what warriors do in GW2, with the proper stance their body is more durable than a shield (Endure pain), they kick, they punch and they even build a ressource like ki/chi/qi/aura that happen to be called "adrenaline". They do have traits that improve their ability to endure hits and/or increase their damage output. It is 100% what you're describing. 49 minutes ago, August.5934 said: Martial Artist uses thier lifeforce energy and thier insanely durable body to destroy everything. Necromancer is the one that use life force in this game, it's not impossible to imagine a melee shroud where he kick and punch in the futur. The game is very open to this kind of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August.5934 Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said: U are referring to spacific types martial arts not martial arts as a whole. U are referring to chinese unarmed martial arts which is just one of many martial arts You know very well what i mean by martial arts class. Why is it so hard for ppl here to realise that? World of warcraft: Monk Lost Ark: Striker, soulfist, wardancer, scrapper Black desert online: Striker, mystic Blade & soul: Soulmaster, kung-fu master so on... It's so obvious of what i am asking for and yet ppl try to debate otherwise. Daredevil, willbenders aren't a martial arts class, Willbender is a class that uses magic. it's far from martial arts. Edited January 8 by August.5934 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 9 minutes ago, August.5934 said: You know very well what i mean by martial arts class. Why is it so hard for ppl here to realise that? World of warcraft: Monk Lost Ark: Striker, soulfist, wardancer, scrapper Black desert online: Striker, mystic Blade & soul: Soulmaster, kung-fu master so on... It's so obvious of what i am asking for and yet ppl try to debate otherwise. Daredevil, willbenders aren't a martial arts class, Willbender is a class that uses magic. it's far from martial arts. I kno exactly what u are referencing, unfortunately unless a whole new unarmed monk class was added that uses different fist weapons I don't think aits possible in the current game as a spec of a existing class due to the weapon sharing aspect. I made 2 characters that were monk themed, one was DD with monk skin outfits or the brawler skin and ancient cantha pants and tabi boots with fist flury, impact strike and staff/short bow. The other was willbender using monk skin with dual swords and all the unarmed strike utility skills willbender has, even have Chinese style broadsword skins. I realize these arnt exactly what ur looking for but it's closest ull get in gw2 I believe. If it makes u feel better real warrior monks such as sohei or shaolin only used unarmed martial arts for last resort and for the spiritual/artistic side of it, if u were to go into battle unarmed as a warrior monk u would be considered a very stupid monk by ur peers lol. They used weapons in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 46 minutes ago, August.5934 said: You know very well what i mean by martial arts class. Why is it so hard for ppl here to realise that? The thing is that GW2 have it's own take on the various class and the 5 first skills are always tied by design to a weapon kit. You want something within GW2 that cannot exist exactly like you want in this game since it's very design make it difficult to implement what you want. On another hand, it's very easy to implement for each profession something that's close to what you want and that's the most likely path the devs would take. Elementalist could have 4 sets of melee fist techniques (1 per element) without any issues in the exact way you imagine a "martial artist" yet it would still leave you unsatisfied. Engineer could use a kit to bridge the gap between your imagination and it's gameplay yet again you wouldn't be satified. Guardian could have 3 fist stances just like firebrand have 3 books filled with page. Still it wouldn't satisfy you. Mesmer could most likely end up with a fist weapon kit generating clone and bursting fantasm, Shatters that let him combine with clones for temporary buff... etc. Yet again, you wouldn't be satisfied. Necromancer could easily get a shroud that let him punch and kick to it's heart content. Guess what? You'd still not be satified. Ranger just need a fist weaponkit to be a "martial artist" as a Soulbeast. Not gonna satify you. Revenant could channel Mike Tyson, Chuck Noris, Bruce Lee or whoever you want and you'd still not be happy. (the legend would most likely be Killroy Stonekin, a dwarf that could be encountered in the Dwarven brawling activity in GW eye of the north.) Thief could exhaust it's initiative on a fist weapon kit for hours and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't good enough for you. Warrior can't do much more than it already do except have a fist weaponkit. Edited January 8 by Dadnir.5038 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qys.5937 Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 (edited) I love my daredevil but I do wish it had a bit better synergy with itself. I know my other classes can combo off themselves super easy and daredevil just feels lacking. It just so much fun to play though. Edited January 9 by Qys.5937 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August.5934 Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 (edited) 23 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said: The thing is that GW2 have it's own take on the various class and the 5 first skills are always tied by design to a weapon kit. You want something within GW2 that cannot exist exactly like you want in this game since it's very design make it difficult to implement what you want It's not impossible, infact quit easy. Here is an example image Edited January 9 by August.5934 missspell 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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