delete it, aint worth my time

[arazoth.7290]

.

Edited February 5 by arazoth.7290

[Dadnir.5038]

The build editor version: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAUl7llQmMK6kNRpsKClFSqsBqkj0zWUF-D6YfGZqCqWKYzfBAA

[arazoth.7290]

On 1/31/2024 at 4:19 PM, Dadnir.5038 said:

The build editor version: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAUl7llQmMK6kNRpsKClFSqsBqkj0zWUF-D6YfGZqCqWKYzfBAA

 

❤️

Edited February 5 by arazoth.7290

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

ohhhh ty, that's nice. I just had a fast glimpse at it.

Could you also add in the categories:

•Conditions: Weakness, poison, vulnerability.

•Boons: Quickness, fury (unless it's meant for allies only that category).

•Controll: Daze

•Miscellaneous: Evade, stunbreak

• Combo: Leap finisher

I don't have an account on that site to make that. So I appreciate it a lot you put your time in it ❤️

It's a "free" site that allow you to make builds and share them, that's all. I just took your build and made a link as it's easier to understand your build in this form.

Edited January 31 by Dadnir.5038

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

He was thinking of metabattle.com

Edited January 31 by UncreativeGreen.2019

[arazoth.7290]

18 hours ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

He was thinking of metabattle.com

nope, thought this worked little bit simular for the link 😁

Confused people love me, ty 😂😌

Edited February 1 by arazoth.7290

[sqog.7149]

I get happy whenever I see a centaur revenant on enemy team...they're always a free kill

[arazoth.7290]

5 hours ago, sqog.7149 said:

I get happy whenever I see a centaur revenant on enemy team...they're always a free kill

You're playing vs people who don't know how to use it then 😅

[Buran.3796]

I've stick to power Vindi. In the last 3v3 season tried sometimes condi builds and a bunker one with Alliance + Jalis gs & staff, but most of the time I run this one more oriented to mobility and burst:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAUFlZSMsTqjhScsUyjpSksSign1UesD-DaILjMTherARPBAAA

   This is from a match this afternoon:

 

[Shagie.7612]

don't think "decent damage" is a very accurate description here tbh
it's very low

[arazoth.7290]

17 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

don't think "decent damage" is a very accurate description here tbh
it's very low

Then you're making wrong combos/setups.

I have on average between 15-20% total team damage. With some outliners of 20-25%. And I am not talking about unranked.

And at the same time you keep the support going, which makes it deadly in teamfight if you combine both well.

 

[Shagie.7612]

18 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Then you're making wrong combos/setups.

nah, if i can sit there on node and facetank it for relatively long periods of time as devastation renegade, one of the lowest sustain specs in the game, it's low damage lol
and that's exactly what's happened every time

like, you and flowki both play these builds and they just do nothing but get +1'd and die
they're... fine i guess 1v1, i'd eventually die as i should, but that's it

i do get it tho that it's probably considerably more fun than playing a traditional sidenode build like cherald

18 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

And at the same time you keep the support going, which makes it deadly in teamfight if you combine both well.

 what's also real deadly is a regular teamfight rev build like vindicator murdering people, especially shortbow/gs vindi

Edited February 5 by Shagie.7612

[arazoth.7290]

12 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

nah, if i can sit there on node and facetank it for relatively long periods of time as devastation renegade, one of the lowest sustain specs in the game, it's low damage lol
and that's exactly what's happened every time

like, you and flowki both play these builds and they just do nothing but get +1'd and die
they're... fine i guess 1v1, i'd eventually die as i should, but that's it

i do get it tho that it's probably considerably more fun than playing a traditional sidenode build like cherald

Never said it's the best sidenoder. Their are some better who are more tankier but then you do less dps then this..

If you can facetank this build on node as devastation renegade, then you really met a beginner. I can guarantee you, try this deva rene against a decent player and you will die inbetween 10-20 second (depending skill lvl).  

18 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

what's also real deadly is a regular teamfight rev build like vindicator murdering people, especially shortbow/gs vindi

yea that's a fine build too. But it can't keep your team alive while doing damage same time.  Now for example, that gs/sb vindi build against this build => Then this cancels your rev moves and a lot less succesfull to get a kill.

[Shagie.7612]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

If you can facetank this build on node as devastation renegade, then you really met a beginner.

it was literally you and him

[arazoth.7290]

21 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

it was literally you and him

Tbf I can't recall your name that I fought you.

Unless you were that 1 guy who just dodged/ blocked with a few attacks to stall time. Then that one in particular because of that, took me only 20-25 seconds (1-2days ago when I played). Unless you think around that time is long facetanking which isn't, 1 minute or more is though.

And "if", you were that person I am now talking about, it didn't cause me any threat. My team was safe because some snowball teamfight earlier and then I could just protect close or mid whoever tried to contest. Meanwhile enemy couldn't make much progression to win anymore.

So idk if that suicide mission of the renegade was worth it.

I take my bet to protect 1v1 the node/kill/make them flee. I don't try 1v2 with it, because main role happens in teamfight, which is most valuable. The only exception 1v2 is to hold the node if we need it to win the last few points (which it can ez survive outnumbered)

[Shagie.7612]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

Tbf I can't recall your name that I fought you.

 

eu account's a different name
but no, 99% of renegades are people who don't know any better tbh, there's roughly zero people who play it seriously (cause it's bad lol, especially now that vindi can get shortbow+pierce at no cost)

every time i've seen someone on this including you it's just gotten immediately eaten by any sort of competent +1er
even when you guys were firebrand/centaur which has a ton of proj hate it didn't help in teamfights either

i don't think these kinds of hybrid builds work well on rev, playing it as something other than dev vindi right now isn't worthwhile unfortunately and the monthlies and high ratings largely support that

[Sereath.1428]

Revenant just hasn't been doing fantastic for a while now, 2024 and it still doesn't look great.

I'm wondering, how has the timeline been like? (sPvP)

2015-2020 Power Herald: Many Shiro and Herald nerfs by the end. S, A-tier a fair amount of time. But only ever popular with top players.
2020(?)-2021 Renegade: Phase Traversal big nerf by increasing the cd from 5s to 12s. Jalis started getting nerfed too. S, A-tier for a while.
2021 Condi Herald: Big nerf to Infuse Light, 3s to 2s. A-tier for a little as well.
2022 Vindicator: S, A-tier for like 3 months? Because other, more broken specs were still being played over it. And in early 2023, it received several damage nerfs and another Salvation nerf too, and all that before Cata was actually addressed.

And Shagie, I get the feeling that you like to diss Vindicator a lot. But the thing is, Vindicator is the only decent spec Revenant has for sPvP right now.
I agree that Renegade is like a D-tier at the moment. But going by that, then Power Herald is a C-tier and then Vindicator is a B-tier. And yes, B isn't exactly bad, just barely above average.

Not a single Vindicator has made it to a final match in God knows how many MATs now. And it's always the same one or two players trying to make it work. Feels like it either lacks damage or sustain to make enough impact for a team at a high competitive level. That's why every Vindicator there plays Devastation and Death Drop, the damage is actually bad without them now. But then it just folds because its kitten 3k heals have a 30s cd for some reason and they have zero access to extra endurance now.

And I also miss Power Herald, many do.
And I also hope they do something good with Renegade.

Edited February 6 by Sereath.1428

[arazoth.7290]

30 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

eu account's a different name
but no, 99% of renegades are people who don't know any better tbh, there's roughly zero people who play it seriously (cause it's bad lol, especially now that vindi can get shortbow+pierce at no cost)

every time i've seen someone on this including you it's just gotten immediately eaten by any sort of competent +1er
even when you guys were firebrand/centaur which has a ton of proj hate it didn't help in teamfights either

i don't think these kinds of hybrid builds work well on rev, playing it as something other than dev vindi right now isn't worthwhile unfortunately and the monthlies and high ratings largely support that

Unless I have a major brainfart, then it gets eaten yea, which is my bad for being too careless and not related to if I don't. 

It helps more then enough in teamfight, depending on teamates builds it's not the best to duo firebrand + that vindi build. 1 of the 2 doesn't needs to go support, again depending team builds.

Ps. nice that you saw me on Firebrand support. I just got back on it after almost a year with my 70 total hours played on that class and trying to figure some workable build before the last patch even. So then I went unranked with FB and him. If I spasm reacted with firebrand doing bad combos back then, don't shoot me off for not helping the others enough. (it's going some better already). So if I was back then on a more classic vindi build, it would have been more reliable help while getting supported by him.

And again, don't 1v2 with it. It can hold/win 1v1's yes, do this when you know it's better at certain times to win. And when you know you aren't going to get +1'd too soon. Otherwise main role is in teamfight like said. Please don't make me repeat this again 😅. If I had in such time 1v2, then it's my fault for being too unaware to saw it coming in time and getting away there in time. This still doesn't change the fact how it's played 

[Buran.3796]

   Don't give up! Your condi build was quite strong (by the way you were right and some condi Rev gave me problems lately) and you play well. I don't enjoy Ventari and I don't think support Rev is anywere close in PvP to where is at WvW, but you should play what you enjoy and if you're finding success with it and want to share that joy with others you should not regret about. Justine and Shao enjoy blasting the very niche hammer no matter the circumstances (well, mostly). Keep fighting!

[Shagie.7612]

21 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Ps. nice that you saw me on Firebrand support. I just got back on it after almost a year with my 70 total hours played on that class and trying to figure some workable build before the last patch even.

honestly wasn't an insult

fb was pretty bad lol, nothing you could really do about it whether you're practiced or not
just meant it more as, it also has extra projectile hate and it still wasn't enough for the centaur build to accomplish much.

off-meta builds are cool but they need a purpose and some sort of niche strength (like say, condi ranger's situational strengths and matchups, when it works it does a LOT of work) and i don't think these hybridy kind of rev builds do very well at that in the current game.
they just kinda exist

22 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

And Shagie, I get the feeling that you like to diss Vindicator a lot. But the thing is, Vindicator is the only decent spec Revenant has for sPvP right now.

My problem with it is that it's just objectively superior to Herald and Renegade and still, after all the nerfs, gets away with things that are an immediate loss on any other Rev build.
I think weaponmaster training was a mistake in general and then they got Heartpiercer for free on top of that? Disgusting.
I also think all of the modified dodge specs are troublesome for balance and are a mistake tbh but that's a game wide thing.

Edited February 6 by Shagie.7612

[Buran.3796]

18 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

   My problem with it is that it's just objectively superior to Herald and Renegade and still, after all the nerfs, gets away with things that are an immediate loss on any other Rev build.
I think weaponmaster training was a mistake in general and then they got Heartpiercer for free on top of that? Disgusting.
I also think all of the modified dodge specs are troublesome for balance and are a mistake tbh but that's a game wide thing.

  Core Rev never existed since was released with the HoT expansion and Herald and the spec was essentially a improved version of, and even with the F2 improvements core never was at the same level. Power Herald dominated at PvP for like 6-7 years, but is not like the profession had a ton of variety in terms of builds at this game mode.

  Renegade was released as a pure PvE spec with minions which died instantly in WvW, the breakstun of the legend placed in the heal to both your survability and a non-functional weapon. AoEs from the short bow and invocations from Kalla also refused to be placed of most of the surfaces in the PvP maps. So Renegade remained useless in PvP unitil they reworked the heal, Sevenshot and debugged the skills on the floor of the maps. Then Renegade with either power with Shiro & Jalis or condis with Mallyx & Kalla became dreadful and had a reign of terror around 6 months in which unkillable condi bunker Renegade was king. They overnerfed it and both variants fell in disgrace.

   Vindi cas released with too much damage and when was nerfed people discovered that the self sustain was too high; the class was in arollercoaster for a year in which went from god to garbage and came back serveral times. The thing is that the alliance has the best defense vs condis in a Rev build (a classic weakness of the class) and the greatsword along Archy largely improves the mobility from Herald. So Herald had more cc and better tankyness in some ways but thanks to mobility self sustain from Vindi was similar and the AoE damage stronger.

   The Weapon Mastery was a must since SotO has no new specs nor utility skills and the new weapons weren't even ready for trhe release, so getting access to every spec weapon was the only reason for much of use to even bother purchasing (and I bought the expansion 3 weeks after the release, instead of in advance as before: I didn't bite the bait until I was sure it would provide me advantage).

   Being said that, Weapon Mastery was a really incosistent feature: for some professions with low number of core weapons (as Engineer or Rev) or glaring weakness (lack of viable ranged weapons as Rev) WM is fantastic. For other professions with tons of weapons and mediocre ones from specs it was meh (ex.: Warrior). Now the thing is: how WM did affect Revenent?

   The shield is mostly a mediocre addition since a) is too miche, b)  outside of Herald which buffs it is not very useful) and c) doesn't shine in competitive game modes. So Herald doesn't get debilitated by sharing the shield; Renegade and Vindi don't gain much...

   The short bow is fantastic since the damage from hammer was crap and in hybrid/condi builds the short bow is really powerful. SAnd unlike the shield, it doesn't require the Renegade traits to work (even less after the piercing change. It serves ANY spec and makes also leveling a core Rev much stronger (no more staff to pair with mace & axe!). Condi Herald gains a tool to put pressure at range and increases the alreday high amount of available cc. For Vindi it means that you can copycat the Renegade playstile, but you have better cleanses, more mobility... you will only miss F skills, and not that much.

   The greatsword enabled better AoE poser damage and flexibility giving mobility and blocks. That is great for core Rev and Herald, but is a power weapon. Power weapon don't benefit that much to Renegade, since pRenegade usually ran swords, and does nothing for condi Renegade. Now, you can argue that in PvP Renegade usually runs power, so you can replace the staff with the gs. But that doesn't deliver a pRenegade with AoEs like a Vindicator: it delivers a Vindicator wich lacks the Alliance.

  So: both Herald and Vindicator gained more with the short bow than Renegade with the shield and greatsword. I think that the way to boost Renegade would be enhance the condition damage delivered from the traits, since I can't see how a power Renegade would compete against Vindi in power builds nor against Herald in support (quickness) builds. Alacrity alone is not enough.

   Unless they buff condi Renegade or revert some Herald nerfs I don't think it will be mucch room for classic power Herald or bunker condi Renegade at PvP. The scepter will probably deliver either a useless support Herald or a outrageous one with will be nuked later and banned and exiled. Even with PvE buffs is hard to see a Renegade having alarger place at PvP, since they don't want a condi bunker meta comming back, and making a power Renegade competitive with Vindicator will be very hard since both have tha same core legends to chose, and then is... Alliance vs Kalla. Kalla is not designed for PvP/WvW, and even if ANet nerfs Alliance to the ground Vindi could still run Shiro & Jallis and call it a day.

   So yeah, Renegade needs buffs, at every game mode. It was my saving boat from pre-EoD Herald nerfs to half year later  post SotO Vindicator final form. Vidi is not at the top of the food chain but I'm fairly happy on how responds in most of situations. Is kept at bay due Devastation is a garbage traitline for damage/sustain and the defenses from evades + Salvation are a bit weak after the nerfs, but I think Vindi is one mistake from the developers away to crush skulls again.  

[Shagie.7612]

10 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

The Weapon Mastery was a must

strongly disagree
with all of the weapons their damage and features were tuned around their respective elite specs

giving condi reaper pistol and torch? giving mirage an ambush that dazes, or shield to virt/mirage, herald and vindi shortbow, staff and dagger plus their ambushes to untamed, and imo even longbow to willbender, a spec balanced around the ability to kite its melee damage, were all massive mistakes and are still troublesome for balance and have in some builds completely made other weapons obsolete

[Buran.3796]

12 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

strongly disagree
with all of the weapons their damage and features were tuned around their respective elite specs

giving condi reaper pistol and torch? giving mirage an ambush that dazes, [...], were all massive mistakes and are still troublesome for balance and have in some builds completely made other weapons obsolete

   Oh I agree with you, in terms of balance there's no doubt that the changes weren't tested enough. But that's not my point.

   My point is that Anet needed weapon mastery not due balance but simply due SotO lacked content enough.

   The expansion has  5-6 hours campaign with 20 hours worth of ginding to unlock all the masteries. Has no new mounts, no new specs, no new skills, no homing, no new PvP nor WvW maps nor content, and to date not even the new weapons or the promised "legendary armors for peasants".

   So what SotO had to offer at the release? Aside from making the skyscale more affordable for plebs, the only really valuable addition was unchaining the weapons locked in specs. And yes, that was terribly unbalanced due A) not all professions benefit from it the same and B) minmaxing made some things stronger and the rest way worse.

   But guess what? Most of the weapons in the game were already close to useless (as most of the traits). And is not just the weapons: SotO made 95 of the 99 runes irrelevant, which means that proportionally PvP has more variety in terms of "viable choices". The thing is that ANet spent half of the time (until PoF) trying to expand the game with more things and since then has been mostly a race to try to content the power creep (impossible since is what sells) and normalizing classes to the point that most of choices are irrelevant. You have like 30 stat combinations yet only 3-6 have any real use.

   And is also important to say that THE PLAYER IS NOT TO BE BLAMED FOR HAMMER BEING A CRAPY WEAPON; short bow didn't made obsolete hammer because now is available for any Rev spec; hammer became obsolete by himself (ANet did this to themselves).